/Invitational 11: Pick your Poison 5 (Game Over)

[Fate]

Are you trying to coax me back onto your mislynch hell with insults and caps?

Did you call me a FruitSister?

If you want me to endorse this wagon, I WANT YOU ON THE RECORD DEFENDING OOBA. Seriously, go read the inconsistency of his posts going from "DGBSCUM" to his new scumteam theory.

[ooba]

Fate just because I don't feel the need to explain each and every step does not make me more scum .. Anyway you have to read between the lines ..

- iam was scummy since I saw a possible iam\DGB pairing but iam seems genuine in wanting DGB lynched.

I work on connections. If I cannot see iam\DGB, I'd rather go for the stronger connection I see in mith\Rhinox\Plum. Plum wagon was looking like it would lead to a lynch so made sense to vote her ..

[Fate]

We haven't had a scum flip yet so connections are bullshit.

I'm going to go read Kinetics game, where I had you read as obvtown correctly.

Why have you STILL not comented on my slot, who you have ignored since calling scum based on D0?

HUH?

HMM?

[Fate]

The fact that your tone with me is one of "oh hai I know you iz town" via scumknowledge seals it for me.

[Patrick]

Votecount

mith (1) -- Seraphim
DrippingGoofball (3) -- mith, Plumegranate, iamausername
ooba (2) -- SpyreX, Fate
Plumegranate (6) -- DrippingGoofball, Kmd4390, Rhinox, Ellibereth, HackerHuck, ooba

Not voting: AdumbroDeus, PokerFace
14 alive, 8 to lynch.

Deadline: 28th of September, 9:20 pm, GMT.

[HackerHuck]

To me, this means either Ellibereth or DGB are scum, but not together.

Why?

This is the post that DGB references.

DGB, why'da make that nice chart for Amished suspects when you thought Amished was the scumkill, and not one for tajo when it's probably that he was.

We now know that Amished was the scumkill. Both DGB and Ellibereth seem too certain about their positions, which I find scummy. The conversation doesn't seem like something two scum would argue about, so I'm assuming that only one of the two are scum.

@HH: How come I made no impression on you - yet am in the scummier list?

I have a bad gut feeling on you. It's mostly due to your lack of contribution throughout, but I also agreed with Fate's assessment of your catchup post - which I did note in my post. I also noticed that you (and Zorblag/AdumbroDeus) avoided both of the town lynches.


Fruitsisters are still a good wagon. Don't worry about Ooba soiling the wagon. I know Fate understands what bussing is. Take a look at them in iso. The activity has seemed to really drop off after Day 1. From the most recent posts, I don't like their entry onto the DGB wagon. It seems to be based on Mith's assessment of DGB's alignment, which isn't too bad, but I don't like how they ignored the large case that IamAUserName put forward on his entry into the game. Considering they think he's town, I would have expected them to use it to support a case, but they instead look to ride Mith's coattails. Someone who really suspected DGB, would have picked that up, so I get the feeling that they were just looking for a reason to jump on the wagon and tied themselves to Mith.

I also mentioned post 921, where Pom makes a weak out of place case on VV before Plum comes back and tries to sweep it under the rug.

It's also been about five days since that slot has posted, so I think a prod would be appropriate.

[AdumbroDeus]

So, you are aware of that, but you are

leaning

town on him, and you "like KMD too, but not as much as the former two [mith and DGB]"?

I was dealing with my reads there so a bit of a brainfart.


You can't have missed something that you referenced to earlier.

I have a bad gut feeling on you. It's mostly due to your lack of contribution throughout, but I also agreed with Fate's assessment of your catchup post - which I did note in my post. I also noticed that you (and Zorblag/AdumbroDeus) avoided both of the town lynches.

Tiny correction here, I didn't quite avoid it, I dropped in to post friday night to make sure we got a lynch, thought zora was at l-1 and thought I dropped the hammer.


(yea I skimmed for that, late friday night and fairly inebriated at the time).

[ooba]

We haven't had a scum flip yet so connections are bullshit.

It's been effective for me .. Case in point - Check out my first post on D2 in oGaM

I've generally had a good track record of spotting when your town - but you've just replaced in. I can't force a read.

As far as connections go, I've noted that you have derailed the DGB wagon. If I am wrong about mith\Rhinox\Plum theory and DGB is scum, it's worth looking into but not worth pursuing right now.

Also sure ekim was in the scum bucket D0, but no posts of his ever caught my eye in my D1\D2 skim reads ..

---

@HH: For what's it worth, I would have voted zoras but lynch had already occurred when I came in D2.

[SpyreX]

I've generally had a good track record of spotting when your town - but you've just replaced in. I can't force a read.

FFFF

Fate you ought to be ashamed to fuel a wagon where SPYREXscum has been sitting alone for the longest time waiting your some player to have FruitSisters cold feet.

FFFFFF

Go team awesome!

I'm not opposed to Plum but thats more of a MORE WORDS versus ooba/mme which I'm pretty sure there's done be a scums up ins.

Of course I'd still love to lynch VV but no chance of that happening with the replacementitis woooo.

[Fate]

Kmd: I don't think you're understanding what I was arguing in my previous post ([preview edit]I don't know how you get "therefore if zoraster doesn't know I claimed, he must be town" from my post at all[/pe]). This was my approximate thought process:

a. Oh, zoraster posted, ~reads~, wait, Kmd???
b. Wow, that's one of the biggest "not-a-clue" moments I've seen in Mafia.
c. Maybe that's a point in his favor, though. Surely scum would know what was going on.
d. Though they might to play dumb for WIFOM reasons/so we come to that conclusion...
e. But wait, how could he not know what's going on if he's town? He's been asking about stuff, he's supposedly doing a big reread...
f. Thoughts c and e make actual ignorance a null-tell (he

could

be ignorant either way, it just seems really unlikely); feigned ignorance can only come from scum.
g. Expressed ignorance is a point against him.
h. I'm already suspicious of zoraster. This is another point against him. Is there anything about his read-post that points toward him being town?
i. No. What Rhinox/Seraphim thing? What concern on Herodotus? His comment on DGB reminds that zoraster hasn't made much of a case on her, and that he hasn't voted her today. Other little wording things (like the MME comment).
j. He's already second on The List, nothing about this reads town, let's put him back at L-1, get a claim, and lynch him.

I wasn't saying that he

was

definitely playing dumb, nor voting him for that reason; I was saying that the possibility of him playing dumb breaks the deadlock of ignorance and turns it from a null-tell to a slight scum-tell. (If I were just looking for an excuse to vote for him, why bring up the "scum shouldn't be ignorant" point at all?)

As for "explain to me why zoraster could possibly want to act like he didn't know I'd claimed tracker" - I already pointed out one; he dropped from 8 to 5 in a few hours. My own initial reaction was "wow, he has so completely missed the plot, he can't be scum", and it's possible he was trying for that reaction in a last attempt to survive.

If you don't think that's legit suspicion, and that I'm just making up the above thought process, fair enough. You're wrong, but there's not much else I can say to convince you.

---

zoraster: I want an answer to the question I asked in 1150.

Current thoughts on zoraster - after 1136, playing dumb seems a more distant possibility (if he is, that's an impressive acting job). However, I'm still not seeing how he as town doing a reread and posting thoughts on everyone could have possibly missed the Kmd claim (see ekiM's post).

1155 continues the "ask specific questions" schtick... which doesn't impress given the two specific questions waiting for him at the top of the page. Additional questions:

What "concern" on Herodotus were you addressing in your big post?
What Rhinox/Seraphim "thing" felt like two people on the same side fighting?

That was my thought process here. "He's town, scum would know what was going on" = the Packers. "He's scum, he couldn't have missed that on a legit reread" = the Vikings. "He's scum, playing at being dumb either to make us Packers fans or for some unknown reason" = the Lions and Bears.

VS.

Fate just because I don't feel the need to explain each and every step does not make me more scum .. Anyway you have to read between the lines ..

- iam was scummy since I saw a possible iam\DGB pairing but iam seems genuine in wanting DGB lynched.

I work on connections. If I cannot see iam\DGB, I'd rather go for the stronger connection I see in mith\Rhinox\Plum. Plum wagon was looking like it would lead to a lynch so made sense to vote her ..

FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF^55

Game.
Set.
Match.

If everyone else wants to play dumb, I at expect mith's vote at the least to come over from this obvious difference in frame of mind/attitude.

I will not rest until people have acknowledged the validity of my case or defended ooba. DGB is on the verge of losing her town read because shes voting off VC analysis alone instead of "what would a townie say" and oobas lack of that. ELLIES REAL CLOSE TOO. SWITCH BACK LIKE YOU SWITCHED BACK FROM MAFIASSK TO POM. REMEMBER NOW??

[Ellibereth]

FATE I JUST WANTED TO SEE HOW MAD RHINO WOULD BE IF I "SOILED" HIS WAGON.
Yeah.
And I remember now...

Unvote, Vote: ooba

[Fate]

Rhinox hasn't posted since you "soiled" it though, so...

FAIL GAMBIT FAIL?

[Ellibereth]

He posted.

[Fate]

FATE I WANT TO BOUNCE OVER FOR A SEC I MIGHT BOUNCE BACK K.

UNVOTE, VOTE PLUM

I don't get this. why the change?

---------------

HH 1466 - ok, understand.

---------------

Just as a FYI, I'm going to be running around an awful lot in between Ohio and PA this weekend, starting tonight, so I'll be even less active this weekend than I normally am on weekends. Sorry.

>_>
<_<

*Retracts Ellie paranoia*

[PokerFace]

Tire fixed but still behind. Christ you guys love walls of text more than me. I am starting to think I'll have to grossly change my playstyle to keepup

Can I get the case on the fruit sisters in a nutshell?

Hey Fate, I seem to remember ooba flipping on alot of his reads in the "of gods and men game" Dramonic pointed that out there on day 2 or 3 i think and you should remember that as the 3 of us were in that game. Does ooba flipping on reads here bear any resemblance to that game and why?

Did Elmo claim who he killed and why? Mith pointed out what might be a slip of DGB saying mafia got tajo and i want to see if it has merit

I am gonna go back and read why DGB first claimed hider and then rescinded it

[Fate]

oooh THATS what she meant by FruitSister...

/whoooooooooosh

I haven't gotten back to of gods and men, but I don't I'll change my mind seeing as I read him as town there, and as scum here.

[Patrick]

It's also been about five days since that slot has posted, so I think a prod would be appropriate.

Plum mentioned a vla until tonight. If they don't post tonight I'll prod them.

[mith]

We're going to the hospital soon (sister-in-law in labor); doubt I'll be on again today.

DGB still easily top suspect, but agree with Fate that ooba's response is scummy. Would vote him over Plumegranate (but that was already the case).

Fate: Thoughts on DGB?

[AdumbroDeus]

Ooba and plume seem to be playing disturbing similar, I get a blend vibe from both of them, still I'd prefer nobody get lynched till Plume actually drops by and responds, if at all, I wanna see what she has to say before committing to a lynch.

Mith

, care to ask me a useful question?

Or anybody

for that matter?


Also, V/LA this weekend .

[Ellibereth]

Fate: Thoughts on DGB?

Why are you asking him something he's already talked about. >.>

[Ellibereth]

Ooba and plume seem to be playing disturbing similar, I get a blend vibe from both of them, still I'd prefer nobody get lynched till Plume actually drops by and responds, if at all, I wanna see what she has to say before committing to a lynch.

Similar?
Vut?
Me no see it at all.
And don't get blend vibe either.

[Fate]

Fate: Thoughts on DGB?

Why are you asking him something he's already talked about. >.>

^

[SpyreX]

Similar?
Vut?
Me no see it at all.
And don't get blend vibe either.

Blend requires words.

There's way more of a bizarro connection in the MME / ooba play that lends REAL hard to a scum hidin there but plum is a different bag of f-- these days.

[mith]

Fate: Here's what I could find about DGB by ISOing you...

"DGB I R HIDER" - Which iamausername followed up on, but I don't recall you ever giving an answer for why the gambit makes her 200% town.

"ooba just soiled th hell out of the DGB wagon..." - Which leaves me wondering how his switch to Plumegranate affects your opinion of the DGB wagon? (Still soiled?)

"DGB is on the verge of losing her town read because shes voting off VC analysis alone..." - Missed this until now... I guess it's true that you've talked about your thoughts on DGB a bit. Just not much.

Rhinox: Caught this while looking at the context of Fate's posts - "Fate, I was down with a ooba lynch until hero ruined that idea for me." - What did you mean by this?

[PokerFace]

I don't think i'm gonna have time to read everything so I am doing what I think is most important

I don't really see the case on ooba. Read him in iso and Seems more like he is changing his mind over time and not having an imediate read flip. Other than that I saw no case so I won't be voting ooba. Ooba seems town for staying off the elmo wagon. If elmo was scum then real vig killing elmo was optimal play over lynching elmo.

_________

DGB's hider gambit was dumb. Not everyone responded to her action before she came forward so it could not be that effective. Also
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 6#p2434316
Though her accessment of what Town would do from hearing that claim is correct what scum might do can not be entirly accurate. She considers a scum group that knows there is no hider. How would DGB know at that point that there is a scum group fighting no hider if not everyone claimed? If she is town, she wouldn't know that. So that looks like a slip

Considering the timing of the claim and unclaim this is what could have been accomplished

1. If DGB is scum and thus knew there was no hider in the setup, She gained nothing but having the janitor role for the scum. Janitor is kinda useless role in my opinion and the scum utilized it on a player that was not a power role with info but instead the day 1 lynch. If hoopla was scum, scum didn't want us to know that and wanted us to believe hoops gambit and words. And if hoopla was town then they wanted us to doubt her or gain little from day 1. Day 1's usually gain nothing anyway so it doesn't really look like scum gained anything other than making us confused about hoop's which is minor compared to how janitor could have been saved to muck up power roles. So getting janitor could not have been DGB's ojective unless scum had big saving plans for it. So yay this unlikly. Also when she claimed assassin was starting to gain steam and roleblocker was starting to lose it. No hider and get assassin would make scum awesome so her coming forward before getting assassin is not good. Scum gain little if anything here. Cross it out!

2. If DGB is scum and there is a hider that just didn't claim before then DGB gained knowledge of who isn't the hider to some degree and gained janitor for scum team. I just explained why janitor gaining was worthless. Gaining knowledge of who not hider is good though. let's say there is a hider out there we don't know about but scum do. Then DGB gained who isn't hider and got scum a blocker to use on who is hider so they can kill hider or fool them later. That idea has potential as she even has a limited pool of who hider could be from those that didn't claim. And that might explain why scum didn't block KMD. They were too busy trying to block a real hider. So I am thinking that if we manage to lynch the scum RB we should re-try the hider-nohider claiming. If there is one still about then it would help the town greatly. This however would invalidate what I just pointed out as a slip UNLESS scum DGB just wanted us to think there was no hider in the setup. Yay this is DGB we are talking about here. I don't think she thinks like that. She is sparatice type not the big time out guess type. So this is unlikly but I won't cross it out as worst possibility

3. If DGB town that mispoke about tajo and scum reactions, Then DGB stopped assassin and kept RB going. This could explain her not considering possibility hider was still out there. She didn't want other things to be hammered or wagoned quickly and so didn't say that possibility because she was in a rush. And the tajo thing tajo was the scum kill seemed to be a consensus at that time even with elmo not yet saying who he it. This seems most likly of the 3 to me If someone would like to review my knowledge i would appreciate it since i have not read everything and could have missed something

______

I'm gonna get back to checking mith and the fruits out later on today. I have looked at some but not all of it on them yet and I'd rather give it all at once. As a lynch probably needs to go through before deadline to avoid no lynch, I may have to vote the largest wagon to avoid the nolynch.