Succession Mafia (OVER!)

[Robocopter87]

Alright, I was going to read this whole thing in one go but I can't. I just can't.

I'm so frustrated at the stupid play that went on in like first 8 pages is clouding my judgment. Going to take it slower.

[Friend]

Gandalf, if you're so confident I'm going to flip scum, why aren't you starting a wagon against me?

[xvart]

And what are your thoughts now that I've given a case?

Like I said: weak. Your case leaves a lot to be desired, especially considering you only ISO his recent posts. Does his early play have no bearing on his alignment? You continue to look like you want to do the absolute minimum to appear to be scumhunting.

The only scum-reads I had weren't going anywhere. If they were, I wouldn't have switched to faraday. I do, but like I said, they weren't going anywhere, and besides, I've almost lost track of my scum-reads.

Your faraday case is the first case you've really made other than some early vote hopping with less than desirable justifications (it was early game, though). Only scum don't have a need to keep track of their scum reads because they are bogus reads to begin with.

Could someone actually explain the Faraday wagon? It seems to be separate people all reaching the same conclusion separately, which doesn't help me.

InHim: I'd say that RC and xvart are equally suspicious in regards to the Faraday wagon, and I don't like that you didn't bring up others.

That's real nice, LG. You ask for an explanation of the faraday wagon and then blast RC and me with regards to the faraday wagon? What does that even mean? What specifically is suspicious about our interactions with the faraday wagon? Are we both guilty of the same thing? Please be less vague with your terrible accusations. And, how can we be suspicious regarding a wagon you don't even understand?

But I like the constant posting. Gives me something to do. And plus, then you don't have a giant WoT.

[/quote]
It also increases the page count exponentially with fluff and filler.

xvart.

[gandalf5166]

Yes, but the amount to read isn't any higher, the topic just looks more formidable. And I already explained that to Poro, Friend >.> I just don't want to switch my vote to a wagon that goes nowhere >.>

[Friend]

So you'd rather just sheep on a wagon you don't believe in?

[xvart]

Yes, but the amount to read isn't any higher, the topic just looks more formidable.

Except is more to read, and has nothing to do with scumhunting when you post comments like these after every post:

O HAI ROBO

YOU WILL LIKE WHO VEZO IS VOTING

Yes, and you'll be groaning for your player slot the whole way through. Vezok was town, but stupid town.

But I like the constant posting. Gives me something to do. And plus, then you don't have a giant WoT.

xvart.

[Andrius]

Sorry. Had to say this. First few pages and I'm already tearing my hair out.

And you're not the one who shares a role with him. I mean, was it really THAT HARD for him to NameClaim and Claim his damn rolename? I would have been able to confirm him had he claimed ENFORCER. But NOOOOOOOOO.

[Robocopter87]

My thoughts on first 20 pages:
We need a Facepalm Smiley. Seriously. Too many grudges, too much non game related attacks. I mean, get it together people, focus on the game and leave your grudges at the door. You really tested me for how much patience I had before I would replace out of this game.

You wanna know how much you accomplished in the first 20 pages? Nothing.

Absolutely nothing. It was worthless. Every last vote, bandwagon, stupid reason, personal attack was worth nothing.

I have only read to page 20 so I haven't seen any flips or anything, only thing I check about flips was to make sure Furcolow was dead so I could replace in. (I Have a really bad history with Furc, and I really really don't like him, I try to instead of complain about him(though i still do). I just don't play any games with him. I made an exception with this game.) So I have no prior knowledge of someone flipping scum when i think they are town.

Well. Nothing has happened. You all have just shown me that you all can act like children!

One thing. One thing that I got from the first 20 pages was...

Andrius is town. Soooo sooo town.

But thats it.

Going to wait a while before continuing, because this game is tough to read.

[Me=Weird]

And what are your thoughts now that I've given a case?

Like I said: weak. Your case leaves a lot to be desired, especially considering you only ISO his recent posts. Does his early play have no bearing on his alignment? You continue to look like you want to do the absolute minimum to appear to be scumhunting.

It does, but I think not as much, especially since, as robo says, the first 20 or so pages didn't do much. Oh dear, I'm so sorry that I don't have all the time in the world to tell people everything about why they should vote faraday.

The only scum-reads I had weren't going anywhere. If they were, I wouldn't have switched to faraday. I do, but like I said, they weren't going anywhere, and besides, I've almost lost track of my scum-reads.

Your faraday case is the first case you've really made other than some early vote hopping with less than desirable justifications (it was early game, though). Only scum don't have a need to keep track of their scum reads because they are bogus reads to begin with.

Like you said, it was early game, and there wasn't much to go on. Do you really believe that, knowing that there's at least two scum factions? Scum would have to scum-hunt as much as town, so I would consider this a null-tell, personally.

HAI ROBO! I hope Open 244 taught you apathy is bad and only makes town lose.

[Robocopter87]

I'm not usually an Apathy person on my own. But that game, that game was a train wreck for town.

[Faraday]

This just from his(faraday's) most recent ISO page:
Why did you think the zwet kill was good? I had a fairly town read on him.
I don't understand how getting role-blocked would make andrius more likely to be lynched? And "mislynched" implies you know he's town. Scum-slip?
See, the problem with one scumgroup trying to kill andrius and the other roleblocking is that 1, they knew that dramonic would likely have guarded him, and 2, that would mean neither scumgroup tried to recruit. Which I find a bit hard to believe.
Perhaps someone role-blocked andy thinking he'd get recruited?
So what's with posting a response to poro, wanting to vote SS(how does helping confirm ooba make someone townier?) except for helping confirm ooba, and then voting gandalf without reasons?
So you'd rather stop wagons on people you think are town instead of analyzing the wagons, and possibly finding scum?
Yeah, why tell us why you think chrono's scum when you can just say "so I'd forgotten chronopie was in the game, then I read him in ISO, then I decided he was scum. now I vote for him."?
If you want to convince people, you need to be convincing. Otherwise people won't do what you want. Gut is not convincing to other people.
So… You're saying you believe andy's claim, but but that doesn't make him town, but you seem to believe he's town with little reason other than his claim?
I like how you use sarcasm and turnips instead of defending yourself.
So it's good reason to vote usually, but not now because it's voting you?
Reaper did explain already. I don't agree with it, but I saw it, which apparently either you didn't or your hoping that if you say it enough he'll get annoyed and say it in bad words.
Yeah. You enjoying it?
So this is your method? Have other people look up why people are scummy instead of telling them?
Oh yeah. Your wagons shitty because it's on you. I mean, why bother actually trying to defend it, especially if it's so bad?
The point is, we shouldn't have to look up reasons for

your

vote.

Yeah yeah, everybody's going to say it's not much and stuff, and they're probably right. But I'm at kind of a dead end in this game, and I don't really agree with the ooba wagon. And I'm not getting the chrono wagon either. This is the best I've got.

Aim: Faraday

this is fucking horrendous.

[Faraday]

Most of the questions asked by Me=weird seem to have pretty obvious answers and are being asked for the sake of being asked.

So you'd rather stop wagons on people you think are town instead of analyzing the wagons, and possibly finding scum?

This is clearly NOT what I said. Could you misunderstand/misrepresent my position any more? I had mentioned that I thought zwet was scum, that's why I thought it was a good kill. Ugh I'm not even going through the rest of that, it's nonsensical.

[Faraday]

Re-Aim: Faraday

I smell desperation.

Nobody likes being lynched, I assume. I don't see why it's scummy.

[Faraday]

Yos's position on me is at least understandable abnd coherent. Meh. I don't really disagree with a lot of it and it's a valid reason especially compared to Prozac's 'No opinions lol' and me=weird's stuff that's bad. I mean I don't even believe prozac thinks I'm scum judging from the way he's interacted with me since his vote, it's like he doesn't really care.

Yos: W/o giving away any more info and judging from your responses can I gather chrono's a bad wagon?

Has singersigner answered my question yet? I don't think so.

[ooba]

What signs, ooba?

And yes, we've all agreed that killing a recruiter is better than killing a recruited.
Srsly tho, is that really your best and/or only counter to my attack on you?

If so, that's pathetically weak.

Deflection. Answer the question - Do you think I am a cult recruiter or not?

[ooba]

As far as Andrius's results go, I can only say that I was
- Busy elsewhere (Was waiting close to zwet's door to kill him)
- was not the one suckerpunched

- Andrius lying is a possibility but he appears genuine
- Pretty sure that Andirus's flavor indicates it wasn't a roleblocking .. Can't be a JK on me because my kill went through ..

Looking through wiki to see if I can find something

[singersigner]

Has singersigner answered my question yet? I don't think so.

What was your question again?

[Me=Weird]

Most of the questions asked by Me=weird seem to have pretty obvious answers and are being asked for the sake of being asked.

So you'd rather stop wagons on people you think are town instead of analyzing the wagons, and possibly finding scum?

This is clearly NOT what I said. Could you misunderstand/misrepresent my position any more? I had mentioned that I thought zwet was scum, that's why I thought it was a good kill. Ugh I'm not even going through the rest of that, it's nonsensical.

What you said was this: "I don't want wagons on people I think are town, so of course I'm going to be quick to try and put them out. I don't see a problem with that at all.". Why not wait a bit and look for scummy wagon-hopping or anything? And if the questions are so obvious, why won't you answer them?

[Erg0]

Work ate my reread, but I'm off this week so it's gonna happen today. Just some notes as I catch up on the posts since last week:

- Odd that singer confirmed ooba's roleclaim but then voted him. I assume this means that he thinks he's been culted? I still don't think there's much value in an ooba lynch today, assuming he's telling the truth about killing Zwet (which fits somewhat with his scumlist in 560).

- If Chrono's crumbing what I think he's crumbing (90% likely) then I don't see how it confirms his alignment. Given the distribution of power roles revealed so far, I'd say that he, or someone like him, is responsible for the lack of cop result on ooba last night.

[inHimshallibe]

Re-Aim: Faraday

I smell desperation.

Nobody likes being lynched, I assume. I don't see why it's scummy.

Desperation is not the same as not liking being lynched. There's more urgency/disgust in your tone. I read it as caught scum.

[singersigner]

- Odd that singer confirmed ooba's roleclaim but then voted him. I assume this means that he thinks he's been culted?

yes.

I still don't think there's much value in an ooba lynch today, assuming he's telling the truth about killing Zwet (which fits somewhat with his scumlist in 560).

that's "assuming," which we should never do in this game.

There have still been two people questioning this faraday lynch wagon...can someone please clarify his case again? I'm still not seeing it.

[Yosarian2]

Yos: W/o giving away any more info and judging from your responses can I gather chrono's a bad wagon?

I wouldn't make any assumptions on chrono's role from anything I've said.

Eh, you know, let's stop beating around the bush. There's so many people this game who have made their role incredibly obvious but then refused to actually claim it, which seems really unhelpful to me, so I'll just say this. Chrono appears to be making either a roleblocker claim or something similar (re-director, jailkeeper, ect). He appears to be claiming that he targeted me and xvert. I am not going to comment on the accuracy of this at all, since any comment I make could either confirm or deny that I have a night action. Basically, assume that everything I've said in response to chrono is exactly what I would have said completely irrespective of what my role is or is not, because, to the best of my ability, it is.

That being said, it's unlikely that someone would claim roleblocker and then claim an unclaimed people as a target if they didn't know those people had been roleblocked, so he may well be a roleblocker or else be in a cult group with a roleblocker. On the other hand, it's likely that the scum do have a roleblocker (either born scum or recruited), since I don't see a town roleblocker targeting andreus. On the OTHER other hand, there seem to be a lot of duplicate roles in this game. So...I don't think chrono's claim really tells us that much at this point, sadly.

[Andrius]

Town RB would be dumb as rocks to block me. And Chrono, as proved in SSBMafia, is quite clever.

And ooba, I suckerpunched YOU. And according to NAR, you probably capped zwet and then got back to get beat down by

Hades

me.

[xvart]

Well. Nothing has happened. You all have just shown me that you all can act like children!

One thing. One thing that I got from the first 20 pages was...

Andrius is town. Soooo sooo town.

Let me ask you this: how is Andrius "soooo sooo town" if the first 20 pages nothing has happened? What are you basing this obvious read on?

And what are your thoughts now that I've given a case?

Like I said: weak. Your case leaves a lot to be desired, especially considering you only ISO his recent posts. Does his early play have no bearing on his alignment? You continue to look like you want to do the absolute minimum to appear to be scumhunting.

It does, but I think not as much, especially since, as robo says, the first 20 or so pages didn't do much. Oh dear, I'm so sorry that I don't have all the time in the world to tell people everything about why they should vote faraday.

Ughh... responses in quotes... Anyways: you make this big deal about ISOing someone and then you come back on someone with a building wagon but you only ISO his most recent posts? If you were serious about making a case you would

make a case

. You just went and hit some highlights and therefore did not really make a case at all. That's my point. And I don't see the need for the AtE about not having time to flesh out a case you said you would probably do.

Deflection. Answer the question - Do you think I am a cult recruiter or not?

I'm going to answer this question since I commented on the same thing. Your defense seems to be that you are not a recruiter; not that you are not a member of a recruiting faction. You are trying to deflect attention because you think that there is no evidence of you being a recruiter, so we should be hunting that person instead of you.

xvart.

[Erg0]

Town RB would be dumb as rocks to block me. And Chrono, as proved in SSBMafia, is quite clever.

Having multiple blockers wouldn't shock me. Doesn't say anything about alignment, of course.

My thoughts on the current wagons:

Faraday - Not a fan of the unsupported declarations of alignment. Slight contradiction between reasons in 3 and 14 for finding Seraphim townish. Trend of "are you scum?" type questioning for most of page 1 of his iso. Little run-up to voting Yos in 19-21 goes nowhere. Never really follows up on RC vote. His iso improves massively from page 2 onwards, though. Reads are consistent from what I can see, and reasoning is sound when he gives it (which becomes more frequent as the game progresses). Doesn't look like a good lynch candidate to me.

Chronopie - Seems to go scum-town-scum with his read on dram in 5-7-8. Seems to only be interested in following the big posters on day 1, forgets about vezok after having a strong-ish point on him in 7. Switches off dram and Andrius for flavour reasons, without reconciling his scummy reads on them. Pointless and unnecessary softclaim in 20. Moves vote from RC to Furc "in the interest of moving the game forward", then doesn't switch back from to RC in 26 when he sees a wagon building on him. Andyscum theory in 30 makes no sense. Can't decide if Yos is likely to be recruited or not (3 vs 30). Votes for the top wagon again in 29 and 39. Criticises reasonless wagoning in 33 - what's wrong with this picture? Definite lynch candidate in my eyes.

Me=Weird - Looks like he's behind the play on day 1, which is somewhat forgiveable with the volume of posts generated. The Faraday vote today just looks super-wagonny, though - pre-empting it in 14 and then posting a summary of only one page of Faraday's iso just looks like doing the minimum possible to justify hopping onto a pre-existing wagon. Could still be a sign of a time deficit, but I'd put him second in scumminess of the four people with votes.

ooba - Just don't see it, for previously explored reasons.

Leaning towards a Chronopie vote based on the above, but I don't want to limit myself to preselected candidates. Going to make a vote tomorrow after checking out a few dark horses.