Newbie 1010 (Game Over)

[bird1111]

Vote Count:
Olinea (3): Civil Scum, silverbullet999, Vincius Chaim
Civil Scum (1): Yoenit
Razgriz (1): neil1113
nevermind (1): Razgriz
Vinicius Chaim (1): nevermind
silverbullet999 (0): No one
neil1113 (0): No one
Catterpillar (0): No one
Yoenit (0): No one

Not voting (2): Catterpillar, Olinea

With 9 alive it is 5 to lynch.

Deadline Vote Count:
Olinea (3): Civil Scum, silverbullet999, Vincius Chaim
nevermind (1): Razgriz
Vinicius Chaim (1): nevermind
silverbullet999 (0): No one
neil1113 (0): No one
Catterpillar (0): No one
Yoenit (0): No one
Civil Scum (0): No one
Razgriz (0): No one

Not voting (1): Olinea

With 3 not having posted within the last 48 hours, 0 currently being replaced, and 0 who have requested to not have their vote counted for deadline purposes; 6 votes would be counted if deadline was now, and therefore it would take 4 votes to lynch. Deadline: September 30th@10:00 AM EDT/GMT-4 (2:00 PM GMT). A countdown to deadline can be found here

Prodding Yoenit.

[Olinea]

Oh, jeez; 3 haven't posted in 48 hours? What is it, Neil/Yoenit/Catterpillar?

Catterpillar, unless you can find a reliable Internet connection, I suggest you sub out. Although 25 pages of material is a

lot

for a replacement to absorb.

[Yoenit]

Sorry people, I forgot to mention I would be away this weekend. See I got some pages to read up now and olinea is top suspect at the moment. Will have a look at it tomorrow morning.

[silverbullet999]

-Raz

And everything you have posted is pro-town and no scumtells in it? Gimmie a break....

Way to completely ignore the point i made when Civil asked me about this. GG Raz, you never fail me.

[Razgriz]

-Raz

And everything you have posted is pro-town and no scumtells in it? Gimmie a break....

Way to completely ignore the point i made when Civil asked me about this. GG Raz, you never fail me.

I saw your post on that silver, but I don't see how that is much different then what he posted....

Wait a second...

[Olinea]

Silver, how're those 6 reads coming along?

[silverbullet999]

Silver, how're those 6 reads coming along?

Whoops slipped my mind , here's everyone.

Olinea : overconfident scum
nevermind : leaning slightly town
Vinicius Chaim : slight scum
neil1113 : town
Catterpillar : neutral
Yoenit : neutral
Civil Scum : town
Razgriz : scum

[Razgriz]

Silver, how're those 6 reads coming along?

Whoops slipped my mind , here's everyone.

Olinea : overconfident scum
nevermind : leaning slightly town
Vinicius Chaim : slight scum
neil1113 : town
Catterpillar : neutral
Yoenit : neutral
Civil Scum : town
Razgriz : scum

And where are the reasons?

[Catterpillar]

Crap guys, sorry for my absence. I've got a reliable internet connection now, there seemed to be some issues with internet providers and certain sites, MS, LiveJournal and TV Tropes were the three I noticed, if it goes down again proxies seem to work okay for getting on so I should be able to contribute enough to stay in the game. (Also I don't want to dump a

25

page day 1 game on a replacement.)

I'm not going to do a read on the entire town again for one thing it will take too much time for another doing so close to the deadline will give scum a rather large hint as to who to lynch and who not to.

I'm going to VOTE: Vote Olinea like others I don't like his comment in post #576 I also don't like him calling for whole town reads from me Nevermind, Silverbullet and Chaim and not wanting us to sit on a fence about someone, how can being unsure about someone be scummy? Only scum can be sure who scum is, especially with regards to evaluating me. I've posted sweet FA (working on it) so how could they have a proper read on me?

He also floated a test balloon as to neil being on his radar in post #388 which was shortly after my bullshit attack on him in #377 (sorry neil that's what it was, it was far more about what other people would say than what you would. I don't like your play and think it's not the most pro town _{yes, I know not posting is also not pro town, I'm working on it.}but I don't think it was actually an indication of scumminess which you so rightly pointed out) this seems to me like he could have subsequently changed his vote to neil with no suspicious if I had continued to pursue him.

MY VOTE PUTS OLINEA AT L-1 DO NOT VOTE HIM IF YOU DON'T WANT HIM LYNCHED

[silverbullet999]

-Infamous Never Failing Raz!

And where are the reasons?

You ask me this but wait... Oli asked this.

I'd like to see reads of the entire town from Nevermind, Silverbullet, Chaim, and Catterpillar. Don't try to dodge out of it, like "I don't really know what to think of X or Y or Z". And my BS detector is raging right now, so be honest.

Where in above does it say with reasons?
Why do you want reasons included?

[Olinea]

WARNING: Wall of text

And the pressure's on. I hate to have to pull this out this early, but I'll be roleclaiming now. I'm a Vanilla Townie. I breadcrumbed this twice in much earlier posts.

V

inicius, you're not the only one who's in his first game.

and now Oli, accusing everybody like a blind-shooter in the middle of the dark...

A

ll this tells me is that you don't actually have a way to defend against that argument.

N

ot knowing what a bandwagon is (or saying you don't, though I can't see how doing that would be helpful) and then claiming it to be scummy doesn't add up.

I

'll put up what the explanation was.

A bandwagon (BW) is when people pile on voting for people very quickly either lynching them or putting them a L-1. In the first few days before there are 6-5 people left a bandwagon is considered 3 people suddenly voting. Then the thrid voter is accused of bandwagoning, especially when the reasoning is poor

L

ook it over; Razgriz doesn't call it scummy at any point.

L

ater on, you see it as scummy behavior; did you do some research or deduce that?

A

fter being accused of bandwagoning you just called it scummy and dismissed the claim; that may turn into WIFOM if I think about it too much, but do you have anything to say about it except "I'm not bandwagoning, in order to lynch you're gonna need a third vote"?

T

o me, what neil did wasn't that treacherous -- it's not like taking a quote saying "I am scumhunting" and quoting only "I am scum".

O

h, but backing up neil after accusing him means I contradicted myself, and are therefore scum, right?

W

e have a lot of middle-grounders as of now (I'm one); the biggest argument here as of now is the Razgriz/neil one, which is ongoing.

N

ot seeing any major slipups as of yet.

I

really want Ups to get back in here -- last time I checked his control panel, he hasn't logged in since the 12th (It's the 16th over here); if he keeps this up, he'll become the new Yoenit.

Wow dude. I'm pointing out hypocricy not your paranioa. I said that was one of the attacks on me. But if you want to vote hop Mr. Overreating Hypocrite

Didn't even read this post till after I posted, but dually noted:

Personal Attack #2 from Raz: "Mr. Over(Something) Hypocrite"

I'm not sure if you told me I was fat and that I over-eat, or if you were trying to tell me I'm overreacting?
Either one Raz, is wrong. I'm quite skinny, I don't eat much due to the diet my coach has me on, and overreacting? I'd believe I was fat before I'd believe I was overreacting.

E

asy up, it was only a typo.

I have reiterated countless numbers of times that I am a townie. Here's about as much proof as I can give without screencapping the PM, which is, of course, breaking the rules. If I am hammered, you

will

lose one of your mislynches and scumhunters. If I am hammered, and it's not due to the deadline approaching, take a careful look at the hammerer, as they know I'm telling the truth. I have committed myself to this role, and this role only; if you can find crumbs of "Cop", "Doc", "Goon", "Mafia", "Scum", "Roleblocker", or anything else, they are purely by accident, and I would be sorely tempted to push a hammer on myself out of sheer stupidity (Not really, but you get my point). I realize that my play up until this point has been quite scummy, and it didn't really turn out the way I had planned for it to go; Day 2 I'll try and take less of an aggressive stance. The deadline is fast-approaching, yes, but at least we can take another stab at someone who we think is scum instead of getting rid of a vanilla.

-Infamous Never Failing Raz!

And where are the reasons?

You ask me this but wait... Oli asked this.

I'd like to see reads of the entire town from Nevermind, Silverbullet, Chaim, and Catterpillar. Don't try to dodge out of it, like "I don't really know what to think of X or Y or Z". And my BS detector is raging right now, so be honest.

Where in above does it say with reasons?
Why do you want reasons included?

I figured I didn't need to ask for reasons, as you could easily just pick a number from 1-5 out of a hat and give someone that read. Most of your reads are pretty explanatory based on your play thus far, so I don't need reasons for them all. I'm curious as to your reasoning for the reads for Yoenit and Nevermind though, as they're the ones that surprised me.

I'm going to VOTE: Vote Olinea like others I don't like his comment in post #576 I also don't like him calling for whole town reads from me Nevermind, Silverbullet and Chaim and not wanting us to sit on a fence about someone, how can being unsure about someone be scummy?

Catterpillar, there is a big difference between sitting on the fence about someone and sitting on the fence about EVERYONE. Let me explain.

Starting with

Civil Scum

Slightly town

.

neil1113

Slightly scum

On to

nevermind

's summary!
Dislikes reading long posts yet creates them. Fantastic. I'm getting

slightly town

on him.

spadille

and

Olinea

I'm leaning

slightly town

again on Olinia.

Razgriz

I'm getting a

slightly town

read but I don't know, something in my gut is saying that I keeping an eye on him is a good idea

Trees are boring.

Silver

Mostly town

, a couple of things stick out to me as not so town though

These are all of your reads. These are all, in my eyes, "on the fence". You are bound to be wrong in Mafia at some point. You need to take a firm stance more than once or you will be swayed easily. Your vote will be controlled by the mob and you will be thrown aside once it has been used to do the mafia's bidding. I am glad to see that you seem to finally have been convinced enough to place a vote (Of course, I'd prefer that it not be on me, but that's the game), but keep that in mind.

[Olinea]

Oh, and the breadcrumb posts are #253 and #294, just in case.

[Catterpillar]

I don't commit to reads before I have the full context, in this case that involves reading through the tread quickly then reading through each iso, for example I was leaning town on you but I'm really not any more.

It's rather easy to breadcrumb Vanilla Townie, why on earth should that change my mind, if you weren't planning on playing scummily then why would you need to? It doesn't make sense.

[Olinea]

I don't commit to reads before I have the full context, in this case that involves reading through the tread quickly then reading through each iso, for example I was leaning town on you but I'm really not any more.

Yeah, after the L-1 vote I can tell what you think of me.

It's rather easy to breadcrumb Vanilla Townie, why on earth should that change my mind, if you weren't planning on playing scummily then why would you need to? It doesn't make sense.

I

did

plan on playing slightly scummily, mostly so I could stay in the game longer since the mafia tends to kill the most pro-town people out there. However, it seems doing so has caused a large amount of suspicion to come my way and away from the two who really need it. The plan didn't work out the way I had envisioned it going; I have played a lot more aggressively than I think a first-timer should be, which is where I think it fell through.

Who doesn't have a vote on me yet? Yoenit/Neil/Raz/Nevermind. I dunno, for the most part I see these guys are pretty town; Raz managed to get in on the discussion while Civil and I were... erm... "duking it out", and Yoenit was keeping busy for a while, too. Nevermind seems to be trying to kick the habit of lurking, which is good.

Let's see the others' opinions. I may be done for the night, I've got Chem homework and I know nothing about *looks at textbook* effective nuclear charge and photoelectron spectroscopy. Christ. I'll try and get on later tonight. Need to stay active, especially right now.

[Catterpillar]

I realize that my play up until this point has been quite scummy, and it didn't really turn out the way I had planned for it to go

Sorry, this lead me to believe that you weren't planning to play it scummy.

[Civil Scum]

I remain unconvinced.

[Olinea]

*sigh*

Note to self: breadcrumbing doesn't convince people.

At this point, I'm not really sure how I can prevent this lynch. In retrospect, I think this "scummy townie" style is rather selfish; I'm looking out for myself to try and stay alive during the night, but drawing attention away from the mafia. If, by some sort of twist of fate, I end up still alive on Day 2, I'll tone it down. Yeah, we have a bit of time, but I'm sure a number of us are a bit antsy to put an end to this behemoth of a Day 1.

If I come back from Calculus to find myself hammered, I'd like to get my thoughts on the table. Right now, I'm leaning towards Silverbullet and Chaim as my suspects, mostly because Silver appears to try and give the bare minimum amount of information (Seriously, what's the point in putting up a scumread if there's 0 reasoning behind it?) and Chaim because it appears that a lot of his votes are hoppin' on the bandwagons. I'm hoping to see more active participation from Nevermind, Catterpillar, and Yoenit in the next couple of days. Civil is still town to me, or else a gutsy, gutsy scum member (Which I doubt; not the gutsy part, but the scum part). Neil and Raz seem to be town to me; perhaps I haven't been paying close enough attention to the Raz=scum arguments, but it's what the gut tells me.

If I've still got 4 votes and people still refuse to hammer really close to the deadline, I plan on self-hammering to narrow the pool.

Nighty night. It's 12:30 and I've got 8:00 class tomorrow :/

[Yoenit]

Allright, a full read from me:

Olinea

I have read the last 3 pages and I don't understand why Olinea is at L-1 now. He could have done better in is his argument with Civil Scum perhaps, but I still get a town read of him, which is more then I can say about some other people. I agree with many of his assessments of other players and think he is just trying to hunt scum best he can. If I am wrong and Olinea flips scum I am his obvious scumpartner and will be lynched for it, but I honestly think

verdict: town

Civil Scum

: Defended himself reasonably well against Olinea. Early in the game i accused him of being "too clean", he definitely got rid of that image now. Given the number of pages of this discussion and the number of suspects put forward I just can't shake the feeling that all of us are being played by very, very good scum. The only people I judge capable of that are Civil and Neil. I tried to pressure Civil based on this theory before the weekend and he acquitted himself reasonably well only then proceeded to crusade against Olinea who somehow ended up at L-1? I am still unsure, but I do think he would be bad lynch today. To bounce back a question: Civil, how do you feel about Silver, VC and now Caterpillar taking your argument against Olinea and running with it?

verdict: neutral, potential to be scum mastermind

UNVOTE: Civil Scum

Neil

: Like I said above, what I have seen of this guy convinces me he has the potential to be another evil mastermind. He didn't slip up the way Civil did however and I have seen very little which could be used against him. As there are 6 other townies in the game it is unlikely he is scum at this point.

verdict: town, slight potential to be scum mastermind

Razgriz

: Never understood the case against him and what it was build on. Seems genuinely trying to help the town, unlikely evil mastermind

verdict: town

Nevermind

: Lurker. I see nothing what could convince me he is either town or scum. Hiding in inactivity is a scum trick, but I am not very active myself so it would be hypocritical to call somebody scum because he can't spend much time on the game. Would really like him to become more active though and he seems to react to being called scum, so

verdict: slight scumread

Catterpillar

: Repaced relatively late in the game, not very active. I dislike him putting Olinea at L-1, but he at least he backed it up better than VC or Silver. Worth keeping alive to see more of him, if only because I want to know my own read which still hasn't been posted.

verdict: neutral

Vinicius Chaim

Was my vote target until Civil pulled his little vote switch. His recent actions have put him back up in the top spot. For example, see his reasoning behind his vote on Olinea:

I can't believe I'm about to do this.

Unvote: Civil Scum

well, like I said, I didn't buy this one and got my FoS on him...

You did indeed. Your argument for that was that he was trying to "fly under the radar" with his unvoting post. As far as I know that means not attracting attention to yourself, which I don't recognize at all from Olineas post.

Then we'd better get crackin'.

I'd like to see reads of

the entire town

from Nevermind, Silverbullet, Chaim, and Catterpillar. Don't try to dodge out of it, like "I don't really know what to think of X or Y or Z". And my BS detector is raging right now, so be honest.

why not from you, too?
or we should say: "only them 4 are the suspects, I'm town!"

Do you seriously suspect anybody to ask for reads about themself? I don't see what is scummy about this statement.

Also, Civil, if we were the scum team this would probably be one of the most epic plays ever.

I definately didn't accept this one, you got many scum points in my book...

This is a thing called humor, which is apparently very dangerous in a game of mafia.

2. Is it considered bad sportsmanship to hammer yourself if you think it'll help the town? For example, if we're close to the deadline, and I've got 4 votes, would it be a... erm... "dick move" to hammer myself so on Day 2 there'd be a 2/7 chance of finding scum rather than 2/8?

self attacking?
"I'm gonna kill myself, I'm inocent, but I'm tired of being accused"
come on, I can't understand how you'd be townie after all...
UNVOTE: never

VOTE: Olinea

Really, why not? Selfhammer to prevent a no lynch is pro-town when you have an odd number of players. You attach some emotional bullshit reasons to his question for no reason and slam a vote on. So what exactly was the scumtell here which made you decide to vote Olinea? which of the quoted parts convinced you he was scum? All you say is: I don't buy your arguments, you already have to many scumpoints, without explaining where he got those scum points from. What I see here is inexperienced scum quoting some points, trashing them without actually pointing out anything suspicious and then adding his vote to the bandwagon (freaking 3th voter again!)

verdict: Scum

VOTE: Vinicius Chaim

Silverbullet

Seems to think fluf can disguise for posting actual content (good observation somebody else). Also voted on Olinea without proper backing in an argument similar to VC. In his case I just did not understand the argument instead of seeing it for bullshit. Another post explaining why he voted Olinea would be greatly appreciated. For now you are my second scum suspect.

verdict: likely scum

[silverbullet999]

-Yo... Yoenit

Razgriz: Never understood the case against him and what it was build on. Seems genuinely trying to help the town, unlikely evil mastermind verdict: town

So downplaying a vote... is helpful to town? So not questioning someone or putting pressure on someone when they are your number one.. is helpful to town?

Silverbullet Seems to think fluf can disguise for posting actual content (good observation somebody else). Also voted on Olinea without proper backing in an argument similar to VC. In his case I just did not understand the argument instead of seeing it for bullshit. Another post explaining why he voted Olinea would be greatly appreciated. For now you are my second scum suspect. verdict: likely scum

Would you care to quote the fluff, besides where the game died down and I was very busy? Would you also care to read my post where I reply to Civil where he voices his slight concern for the reason? Actually, would you mind reading posts before making a new one?

-Oli
Breadcrumbing only works for PR for the most part, I wouldn't suggest doing it as medic, normally cops and other such roles such as masons.

[Vinicius Chaim]

congratz yoenit, you defended your scumpartnet pretty well...

so, Olinea, the 4 guys not voting you are TOWN reads? come on! this seems just like "I think you're town, vote for somebody!"

I think we weren't fighting against good scums, just being blind

[Olinea]

congratz yoenit, you defended your scumpartnet pretty well...

Congrats Chaim, someone didn't hop on the bandwagon and that means they're scum.

so, Olinea, the 4 guys not voting you are TOWN reads? come on! this seems just like "I think you're town, vote for somebody!"

I will say it again. Page 22, post 546. I posted scumreads of everyone. The only one out of there that changed is Nevermind because he's posting now. The other three have been town reads for as long as I can remember.

I think we weren't fighting against good scums, just being blind

What do you mean by this? I interpret this as you saying that everyone else who's had a wagon against them has been town, and I'm the true scum, but please correct me if this is wrong. Because, again, you're the go-to guy if someone needs a +1 for their wagon and to me it sounds like you're calling everyone who's had a wagon up until this point a townie, in which case you've been voting for townies all game.

[Olinea]

EBWOP: "For as long as I can remember" being after my realization that the inflated Neil accusation was foolish.

[Yoenit]

-Yo... Yoenit

Razgriz: Never understood the case against him and what it was build on. Seems genuinely trying to help the town, unlikely evil mastermind verdict: town

So downplaying a vote... is helpful to town? So not questioning someone or putting pressure on someone when they are your number one.. is helpful to town?

I said he was trying to help, not that his actions were always helpful. After all this is a newbie game, so mistakes will be made and learned from. His intentions seem genuine to me. I do not recognize the points you speak off, please give some post numbers or quotes where these mistakes from Razgriz are discussed if you intent to sway my opinion.

Silverbullet Seems to think fluf can disguise for posting actual content (good observation somebody else). Also voted on Olinea without proper backing in an argument similar to VC. In his case I just did not understand the argument instead of seeing it for bullshit. Another post explaining why he voted Olinea would be greatly appreciated. For now you are my second scum suspect. verdict: likely scum

Would you care to quote the fluff, besides where the game died down and I was very busy? Would you also care to read my post where I reply to Civil where he voices his slight concern for the reason? Actually, would you mind reading posts before making a new one?

wow, You are actually right. Your last 14 posts or so have been almost flufless. Sorry, unsure how I missed that the first time I read them. This does effect my read on you. Right now I would put you on slightly scum, but that is just because I don't trust your vote on Olinea. Would you be so kind to explain your reasoning behind the vote again?

[Razgriz]

congratz yoenit, you defended your scumpartnet pretty well...

so, Olinea, the 4 guys not voting you are TOWN reads? come on! this seems just like "I think you're town, vote for somebody!"

I think we weren't fighting against good scums, just being blind

VC you know you HAVE been jumping on bandwagons and piggybacking on people's reasoning....
Intresting

[Civil Scum]

Civil, how do you feel about Silver, VC and now Caterpillar taking your argument against Olinea and running with it?

Hmmm. I have noticed. It makes me less confident in my read on Olinea. But only slightly. When I asked you a similar question, I wasn't sure what type of response I should even expect. It may be more of a measure of one's confidence in their case/voting than anything else.

It seems like a small caution sign to me only, but at this point, time is winding down. Obvously, if Olinea were to flip town, then all of these people, and their behavior late in D-1, probably myself and VC in particular, warrant very very serious scrutiny. Then again, Neil also cut out at deadline which would be a pretty good move, to sort of detach yourself from people's recollection of a lynch (and I have been mindful that he may be a good scum player and shirked the first wagon, got himself a lot of "open-field"). I think you would too, being just about the only person to defend a dying townie. Your defense of Olinea can be scummy for you no matter what Olinea's alignment is. Depends on how things play out. I'd say it's less likely that you'd be both scum, and more likely that Olinea is not but you are. Let me make sure that's not misconstrued. I don't mean that you're more suspicious. I mean I would be more inclined to suspect you if Olinea flipped town, and less inclined if he was indeed scum. But again, I'd have to wait for the flip to really get any useful mileage out of that.

That was the thing about Olinea's comments on Silver's posting. I didn't agree that he had been primarily posting contentless. His early posting too, I felt was decent. Even if he was joking with people's names and what not, his early posts almost always had a point to them, and some real discussion of the game and it's players.

I agree with a lot of what you posted, and especially about VC. I attributed the nature of his recent attack and vote to newness only, and chose to ignore it. But looking at it again, or the way you're observing it, VC does not sound very good.

Caterpillar too, in the event that Olinea flipped town, deserves some serious attention imo.

One of the things I didn't like about Olinea dropping his case on me, he never cited his thoughts on my attacks of some of his evidence. He never asked to be excused for his errors or overzealousness (the only two possibilities for a townie to have made those errors), and instead of going over his points in comparison to my defense, or reconsidering/revisiting them, or even trying to push them past and get them "around" my counter-points, he cited different (almost unrelated) basis's's for turning around on me. So it did seem as if he had simply dumped the case when it wasn't panning out, rather than beginning to reconsider his case, which is what you would fairly often reliably expect from a townie who thinks they are wrong.

I can't see myself switching my vote anywhere else, though I would intend to take it up earnestly in D-2. And if I have been wrong on Olinea, and I helped him get ran into the ground by the real scum-ooportunists, then Olinea, I am sorry