Mini 1039 Lost: Season One (Over)

[BloodCovenent]

Soo... chesskid tries to hammer what... twice is it? and then immediately unvotes... now there is a time to hammer and he does not?

sweet.

[dramonic]

He's waiting for Ademisk to claim or at least post I think.

[AGar]

But you'll hammer him.

Townlist is a townlist brah - major contradiction right here. Nagging feeling on a player you've been driving for a lynch on for the entire day isn't usually what constitutes a town read.

[BloodCovenent]

He's waiting for Ademisk to claim or at least post I think.

Then why would he have tried to quick hammer several other times. i'm getting mixed reads =/

[Ademisk]

Re-reading and writing a lot. Give me some time.

[dramonic]

Please make it quick, we're getting restless

[Dekes]

I'm not responding to jenni's WoT with another WoT because there's been enough cluttering already. I've presented my standpoint, she's presented hers (several times).

Just a few notes about her latest post:
- HH was Flavor Cop, not Day Namecop which is slightly different and I haven't come across the latter one during my search in this forum and the Wiki.
- Your statement that I wanted to vote chess after calling him town is false.
- I use parentheses all the times in all my games. It doesn't make the statement within the parentheses more or less important, it's just something I do. You could've noticed this in the Castlevania game we played together.

@AGar
If you believe in a jenni/chess scum team, how do you think about Adem's claim? Do you think a non-scum was given the name and role of scum pre-game?

[jenniwren]

Hmmm...After rereading, I can attest that even though I don't know BC's alignment, he's very very prob-town.

How about "I have inside information that doesn't include me being a fake-rolecop/lyncher that makes me know he's a bad lynch for the town?"

Just out of curiosity...

I was completely set to lynch Adem on D1 until he told me he had my info. Because I'm Walt, I thought there was a possibility that someone might have my info, and so when he said that, I believed him. This also gives me reason to believe he's not scum..."inside role-related information" I believe you called it when referring to BC? So, you don't know BC's alignment and expect us all to accept your assessment that he is probably town, but when someone else is put in the SAME situation, you think they are scum? How does that work exactly? I don't know all of Adem's info, and I didn't even know he was Michael until he claimed on D1, but knowing WHO he is along with knowing my own info gives me a good reason to believe he isn't scum.

**********

By the way, since some people still wrongly believe the myth that I was "active lurking" and "needed prodding" early on...

Aside from the two comments about Hurley that drew so much negative attention, the other information I had posted about the show in the beginning was

for a reason

. (And I addressed everything in ISO 8.) Go back and READ it...Vezo was claiming things based on the show, i.e., that he thought Ethan was the kid with the dog which is why he outed Dekes. I OBVIOUSLY had a VERY good reason to be concerned about that. I spent a few posts clarifying that and setting him straight...I wasn't "active lurking." I made one post about Michael/S2 after I made my first three posts which was IN RESPONSE to someone else, and then I made a post about not seeing how Ethan couldn't be the bad guy, which was again, IN RESPONSE to someone else, and the next night I made the two stupid Hurley comments (and nine hours later, posted something real). All of this happened in the space of about 3 game days, right after the game started.

[jenniwren]

Just so you don't have go look for it....

Since he's at L-2 already, I'm holding my vote until we hear from Dekes. In the meantime, I do have one question for Vezo.

I read the following post as meaning that you thought Ethan was the kid with the dog (Walt), and you revealed him to the town without waiting for him to claim because you thought that.

You didn't vote earlier because you thought Ethan was the kid and not the villain, but then you wiki'd Ethan and found out he was the villain and that's why you voted. (Correct me if I am wrong. If I am misreading this and you meant you wiki'd him before you revealed his identity, then the following question is moot.)

Why would you reveal the kid's identity?

Sorry. When day was first announced I sent the ability and checked the result when I came back.
I forgot Ethan was a bad guy. I though he was the kid with the dog. I then checked the wiki now when I had time and remembered who Ethan is.

Chess...

I asked Vezo why he was willing to reveal Ethan's identity to the group at large if he thought he was the kid with the dog and not the villain.

It's a legitimate question, not an attack.

I saw season 1 in 2008 iirc.
I didn't remember Boone (he dies in season 2) so I checked the wiki. I saw some intresting facts there.
Claire doesn't appear in the first few episodes. She is a likely fake claim.
I checked my result also and apparently Ethan was the bad guy who gets killed by Ana Lucia iirc.
I wanted to reveal this because if he claimed something he could be scum. Wald gets taken by the others at the end of the season iirc. With his father. So I thought these two may be scum

You should double-check your wiki source. I don't know where you're looking up your information, but you might try this site for more reliable information about the show,

especially

if you are going to be making votes and other decisions based on what you read in the wiki.

(This is for everyone who may not be familiar with the show. I don't know if you will need it, but just in case, here it is.) http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page

For clarification:

Claire

is

there from the very beginning, in the pilot episode; she is a pregnant survivor of the plane crash. She's one of the first people Jack checks on after the crash. She spends most of season one being very pregnant and being a kidnap victim.

Ethan is the Other who is killed by a traumatized Charlie (not Ana Lucia), who shoots him to make sure he can never hurt anyone again. He's definitely a baddie. (Because Ethan kidnapped Claire, almost killed Charlie, and threatened to kill others.)

Walt is a child (with some psychic type powers), and the Others do kidnap him at gunpoint, but not his dad, and

everyone

is pretty much devastated when they find out. He's just a kid, not a villain (his dad ends up doing some crazy things, though).

[chesskid3]

include a claim in your post pl0x

[jenniwren]

Your statement that I wanted to vote chess after calling him town is false.

I'm not willing to vote chesskid

yet

, since I have bigger suspects and because I didn't get a lot of bad vibes from him on D1. Obviously I agree that he definitely deserves the accusations for his fakehammer gambit, because it was at the very least a stupid move. Whether you intended to draw scum out with that move or not you put a claimed cop at risk and he eventually got killed. Not only was HH's caim the most believable of the later claims (though I did believe Jason's claim, too, to be honest), but you could've easily switched to Ademisk or someone else. Because the deadline wasn't that imminent that HH had to be lynched right then.

The "yet" implies that you would be willing to lynch him in the future; you say you have bigger suspects, which means that he is a suspect (because "bigger" is the comparative form of the word, meaning that there are lesser degrees of it; otherwise you would have said "other"--so more fence-sitting), and then you say that you think he deserves accusations as scum, and accusations result in votes, which result in lynches.

HH was Flavor Cop, not Day Namecop which is slightly different and I haven't come across the latter one during my search in this forum and the Wiki.

Not to try to out-guess the mod, but I'm betting HH was thinking there probably wasn't another role so similar to his.

Also: I your D2 posts about CK and AGar, you keep saying they are both town, and that you don't see any scumminess there, but if AGar flipped scum, you would look at CK. Are you protecting AGar here, and if he ends up dead, trying to make sure suspicion turns to CK and not you?

Also, about how you play in other games...I know in Castlevania you were stuck to Tans like I was stuck to CT, and you never waffled. You even took it into dead chat. You sometimes asked other people questions, but you never went back and forth like you're doing in this game. Your posts were much more confident and firm as well.

[AGar]

Go back and READ it...Vezo was claiming things based on the show, i.e., that he thought Ethan was the kid with the dog which is why he outed Dekes.

Nice misrep yet again. He said he

didn't

out Dekes because he thought Ethan was the kid with the dog. Nevermind the fact that the whole charade was an attempt to get a mislynch through.

@Dekes

I'm not sure how Adem fits into the scenario. I still don't know what to make of the claim. If he's Michael, I could see him knowing who Walt is but not the other way around in some twisted scheme of things. Like I said, I don't have a solid read on Adem because of his game throughout being on either side of things quite often.

Jenni, stop metaing Dekes now, because you're fucking it up already.

[dramonic]

"inside role-related information" I believe you called it when referring to BC? So, you don't know BC's alignment and expect us all to accept your assessment that he is probably town, but when someone else is put in the SAME situation, you think they are scum? How does that work exactly?

The situation isn't the same.
In your situation, I am already suspecting both you and and then it goes "ademisk is about to get lynched and squeals "Jenni, save me please!""
In my situation, I point out that BC is a bad lynch until further notice, and then review my position based on personal knowledge to think he is town.

I'm not 100% confirming people and I don't suddenly suspect extra people because they tell me I'm on the wrong lynch.

[jenniwren]

Go back and READ it...Vezo was claiming things based on the show, i.e., that he thought Ethan was the kid with the dog which is why he outed Dekes.

Nice misrep yet again. He said he

didn't

out Dekes because he thought Ethan was the kid with the dog. Nevermind the fact that the whole charade was an attempt to get a mislynch through.

@Dekes

I'm not sure how Adem fits into the scenario. I still don't know what to make of the claim. If he's Michael, I could see him knowing who Walt is but not the other way around in some twisted scheme of things. Like I said, I don't have a solid read on Adem because of his game throughout being on either side of things quite often.

Jenni, stop metaing Dekes now, because you're fucking it up already.

If you read what I wrote, I didn't understand exactly what he was saying, because he had already outed Dekes as Ethan when he said that he thought he was the kid with the dog; I asked him a question for clarification because I was confused. Vezo clarified it in his next post. I didn't misrep him, I asked him a question to make sure I understood him.

Dekes brought up his meta, not me.

[AGar]

He brought up his use of parenthesis. You tried to meta him. Big difference, and you obviously don't know what you're doing.

[jenniwren]

"inside role-related information" I believe you called it when referring to BC? So, you don't know BC's alignment and expect us all to accept your assessment that he is probably town, but when someone else is put in the SAME situation, you think they are scum? How does that work exactly?

The situation isn't the same.
In your situation, I am already suspecting both you and and then it goes "ademisk is about to get lynched and squeals "Jenni, save me please!""
In my situation, I point out that BC is a bad lynch until further notice, and then review my position based on personal knowledge to think he is town.

I'm not 100% confirming people and I don't suddenly suspect extra people because they tell me I'm on the wrong lynch.

I see what you're saying. I'm not 100% confirming Adem, either. I don't know his alignment, but I between him and having my information and my knowing what I know about my own role, I have a good reason to believe he isn't scum. Adem was my second suspect on D1, after BC. I was ready for him to be lynched...in fact, I started his wagon. The irony that he revealed himself as Michael does not escape me.

@AGar: Dekes brought up his play in Castlevania by saying he used parenthesis there. If he is going to use another game as defense, I have the right to say he's not playing the same in that game as he is in this one.

[Ademisk]

@dram 572: You "told us so!" that HH was town. While he did flip town, you in no way, shape, or form said that; me and MoI made sure of that. This was addressed before.

@MoI 575: I don't care if he later on acquired undeniable proof and is 100% sure I am scum. The fact is, his original reason for voting me was "for the same reasons as yesterday", and those reasons were garbage. There is absolutely no way you can twist that to make it justified. Note that I am NOT calling him out for the case that he derived from our later interactions surrounding that vote.

1) I see your reasoning, but look at it this way. Peole switch their votes all the time, and at times eventually begin defending those they voted on. I'd wager only a few of those are due to claims. Why would that be? If they are so sure that person is scum at that point, and since nothing they do can cancel out the reasons that made them suspicious by that point (they can try to explain, but everyone can explain everything away if they wanted to), why would they switch their opinion? Its because they aren't sure if they're right. Just like I'm not, but I was willing to admit it at the time because my suspicions at the time just barely crossed the line between FoS and a vote. And LOL at you for subsequently voting Vezok just so your vote won't sit inactive while you're V/LA for two days after lecturing me that "Unless you are online at MS 24/7 there is always the possibility of a lynch happening in you absence [and that is bad, if you aren't sure]".

2) Me pointing out his error is not equivalent to me making the error. He put it out there, it doesn't matter how many times we bring it up after that (which a number of others have done before me anyway).

Whats interesting is how you say that me and jenni are both good lynches for the day, but then you seperate us into different pools. You were saying we are both scum (and thus linked), but then you say we aren't by sorting us differently? Again, you don't seem sure of your own analysis.

Also, it was not dram but chess who gave jason flak D1. dram arbitrarily put jason in his PoE scum list with me and jenni and then felt vindicated when jason flipped town, despite almost no interaction, much less case-building against him. chess voted and pushed for jason's wagon.

@BC 585: Wtf is that? Why even vote when you have no way to decide between me and AGar? Especially when you imply the case on me is as strong as the case on AGar, which is him not answering a couple of questions.

@chess: I never offered to full claim myself. That was for jenni, when I offered to give up as much as she would allow me to. Myself, I only offered my flavor, not my role. Giving up my role then would have been pointless.

And what could this new insight on jason's ISO be?



Ok, so having looked further into chess, I think he is the vig/SK. It's actually pretty obvious with the trail of breadcrumbs he was leaving.

Post 182 the possibility of a vig is first brought up by him in the context of Vezok being a lyncher.

Posts 235 and 238 show him talking about how our problems (in regards to Vezok) will be solved by a vig. The thing that struck me about these posts was his conviction in that it will happen.

From post 247 he got into a discussion with HH about the best course of action for a vig. HH tries to show him that vigging a lyncher is not the best option. Chess continues this in posts 404 and 423 where he expresses his wish that Vezok would be lynched tonight, where HH further tries to educate him. jason died the next night, and it should be noted that chess tried to push for his wagon near the end of the day, so it wouldn't take a big leap to vig jason the following night, despite jason claiming doc. Having screwed up with HH, he took HH's advice and went for someone he actually thought was scum.

Post 437 could account for this 'change in vig target' with him trying to use the fact that Vezok survived where he shouldn't have to put suspicion on him, and thus make him worthy of a possible vig the next night, in the absence of his death during the previous night. Also, him being a vig would also explain his weak play at the start of D2. Having chosen correctly and vigged a scum the night before, he felt town enough to let his guard down a bit while taking flak from AGar for his fake hammer the day before.

Post 576 returns to making plans about vigging Vezok tonight. He makes it look like he is throwing these statemenets out there for the vig, but with a history of being the only one to bring up vig talk D1 at least, I'm inclined to believe he is trying to look like he is communicating with the vig and thus removing the possibility that he is the vig.

In post 622, he brings up hunting the vig/SK out of nowhere, but then softens the statement in the next post. I'm not sure what to make of this because now he would be throwing suspicion on himself if I am right about him him being a vig/sk, but if he is scum aligned then he could be trying to draw attention off of whoever is getting the most of it at the time, which was Dekes. Another theory is that he could be further trying to distance himself from the role so as to be safe the next night. Can vigs be scum aligned?

chess is always the first to bring up the vig/sk role, and he is the one that talks about it the most, by far. He also showed great interest in who the vig should kill and how the vig should operate, discussing potential vig kills on numerous occasions and stating his wishes in regards to who the vig should kill.

However, his willingness to hammer on a whim (post 587, tried but failed) and then instantly unvote when it fails does make me wonder about his allignment. Him now wanting to wait for my post after knowingly trying to hammer me earlier sounds like appeasement. I would like the insight of others to help clarify this situation.

Before anyone starts accusing me of outing PRs or role fishing, here's why I did it:
1) This conclusion would be incredibly obvious for anyone looking for a vig amongst us, so this is just a nice summary of events.
2) This is my more concrete stance on him. Since this makes him town or 3rd party at worst, there is no reason to keep my vote on him.

unvote: chess

Due to jenni's case, particularly jason's vehement defense of Dekes and no one else, I'm inclined to believe that Dekes might be scum. However, given that he is the target of a lyncher, this matter should be handled carefully. I'm going to take a look at jason myself and see what I can find. In the meantime, lets see if dram and BC can turn up something useful.

[dramonic]

so...
you're still not claiming?

[chesskid3]

I dont get it. You're at L-1 you still refuse to claim and you start speculating about who the vig is?

[chesskid3]

Give me one reason I shouldn't hammer right now

[chesskid3]

And to be clear, this is your last shot. Don't not claim on your next post.

[chesskid3]

Also your last post spends 2/3 of it talkinga bout how i'm so much like a vig and then at the end random SK crap comes forth.

[dramonic]

I... think he left, unless I'm reading the active users list wrong.

[dramonic]

nvm, he's back

[chesskid3]

viewing private messages.