Mini 1057: Unsubsidized Mafia (Game Over!)

[Thor665]

I really wish I had a vig power that could target people who haven't voted, as long as we're making wishlists. (though yours seems more likely to come true then mine )

[nhammen]

I will UNVOTE: DH
VOTE: Far_Cry because he refused to unvote on the grounds it would look ridiculous to unvote so soon. A scum needs to avoid doing things that look ridiculous, while a townie just needs to hunt for scum.

This is a stupid reason to vote for me. Had I not already told everybody that my vote was placed solely for the reason to promote discussion. I have no need to unvote, because the desired result of my decision has not been produced yet.

I find this game pitiful. No wants to do shit, no one wants to say shit. Instead, we are resorting to voting each other for some ridiculous reasons. I have yet to find one good case against anybody, one that's reasonable and makes sense. Here, we have jimfinn, who mind you, has been actively lurking, going out and calling me scum trying to spring up activity. While it is true that I said it would be ridiculous to vote and then unvote so soon (and it would be), he failed to notice that the reason of my vote was just for the sake of actvity, and then goes around and twists the meanings of my actions.

Now I would like you to tell me who's scummier. UNVOTE: DemonHybrid, VOTE: jimfinn

Except that you specifically stated that the reason you were not unvoting was because "it would look ridiculous". This is what jimfinn's attack is based on. And nowhere have you refuted that this is scummy. Even though you make mention of it in this very post. In fact, you seem to have actively twisted his case to be "because I unvoted". Bad Far_Cry. Bad.

What? No. I wasn't saying his argument was bad at all. I was just wondering why he didn't think that was a possibility. I didn't like the fact that he thought I was so blatantly trying to make one person "look scummy" (or whatever he thought I was doing) and not someone else. The whole hypocrisy thing... If you're looking for a scum tell in that, you won't find one.

And does him not seeing it as a possibility matter? Why did you pick up so much on this one question of his that you had to respond so thoroughly to it? What about his posts gave you the idea that he thought of your slot in this way? Why did

you

specifically make mention of hypocrisy after it had been discussed ad-nauseum?

Oh ya, and what do you think of singer and redtail now?

Just curious, but I'd like to know why these two are chosen from among everyone.

Right now I think Far_Cry is suspicious, as well as Redtail, for reasons that other people have already mentioned.

And what about these reasons do you agree with? What about these reasons do you disagree with?

Yes, I'm talking about Jack.

Consider the fact that I consider Jack one of the best players I've interacted with on the site and my commentary makes perfect sense.

How do you see it *not* computing?

It would've made a lot more sense if you explained your high regards towards Jack

before

you proclaimed that. Also, kinda sounds like you're trying to be pro-town. Just sayin...

I um waht?? Too pro-Town to be Town?

Unvote if any, Vote: Thor665

I would agree with singer. You're being horribly anti-town now with the sarcasm and terrible responses.

!?!??!

Quite frankly, I think I answered those last two posts with *exactly* the level of serious concern and consideration they deserved.

Agree 100%

[Nexus]

I'm gonna have to extend my v/la until Monday Evening. Something's come up.

[Devon]

Please replace me as well - I don't have time for this right now, and I'm not going to keep wasting everyone's time.

[DemonHybrid]

Please replace me as well - I don't have time for this right now, and I'm not going to keep wasting everyone's time.

Please understand Devon's situation here, we've all been really swamped with work and personal problems, I've been lucky enough to find time to post but not everyone is that lucky.

Come back when you have the time, you're very welcome to join another game with me in the future, Dev =)

[Devon]

Yea sorry about this everyone. I'll come back and try another game during a break or something.

[Thor665]

This game will not get wheels, will it?

@ANDRIGAN - are you alive? Please vote somebody.

@redtail - please ISO DH and then tell me why you aren't voting him.

@nhamman - what's the case on singersinger again? I see scumminess there but I have to wonder why the guy *sheeping* her "case" is not as worthy for a vote?

[singersigner]

@nhammen...anyone "trying" to be pro-town, means they're not. If "you" were actually pro-town, "you" wouldn't have to try, know what I mean?

@DH...holey buddying, batman! What, are you trying to protect your scum-buddy from being seen as scummy for replacing out? I don't mind people replacing out. In fact, I welcome it if they can't contribute properly to the game. Why you felt the need to so blatantly make a statement in her defense is beyond me...

[DemonHybrid]

Because this is her first game. She's new. And she feels really bad about replacing out.

[Far_Cry]

Wait, what number wagon is this (the wagon Thor)? All of these wagons have been started to "promote discussion," yet we haven't gotten far with that at all.

@nhammen: I will try to reply to your posts tomorrow, when I have more and time and will be thinking better.

[Thor665]

@Far_Cry - the only real wagon we've had was the one on DH that got up to 4 votes, nothing else has really gotten beyond 1-2 votes. We haven't gotten discussion because about half the town is really super excited about their wagons of choice so they won't move, and the other half refuses to vote (and/or is flaking out)

@singersinger - you missed/dodged my question Frankly, so did DH, but his was a bit more of a rhetorical jab because I think it's starting to become pretty obvious how sketchy his read method is. Yours I want answered - specifically the second question to you, though the first one might amuse me to watch you answer it as well.

[redtail896]

@Thor, I'm not voting DH because I'm deciding between him and signer. The "case" against you is so absurd that, if I didn't know better, I would consider it RVS. As it is, I can't decide whether I find singer's initial vote or DH's quick follow along with buddying scummier.

[singersigner]

Whoops!
Here ya go:

What makes you so town?

What makes me so scum?

I see you've dodged this question, and made a point of calling me out assuming I did the same. The difference is, I accidentally overlooked response in responding to other posts. You deliberately didn't answer the question.

As far as I can tell, all you've been doing is confuse and Smurf the Smurf out of town.

How have I done this? Please try to be explicit.

Look at your own ISO. Your posting style is aggressive, and instead of looking for blatantly scummy behavior, you're putting everyone on the defensive for things that may or may not be of any concern...and it's only the first day.

If I had to choose, my best bets would be Thor and Far_Cry...maybe DH, but I dunno.

[Thor665]

@singersinger

1. I can't tell if you're crazy or obtuse. Let's go with this - I'm town because my role PM proves that this is so - show me evidence to the contrary or go away.
2. So I'm being aggressive about things (or as I call them scumtells) and I'm making people get defensive (or as I call it, making them respond so I can get scum reads on them) Congratulations, you have discovered that my playstyle is more aggressive then yours!

How is this confusing town?
How is aggressiveness more likely to be done by scum then town?

Your list of scum suspects is really fascinating;
Thor
Far_Cry
DH

You...ah...have sort of noticed that amongst all of my aggressive attempts to confuse town that I've sort of championed both of the other lynches on your list, haven't you? What's your case on each of the other two - I want to see how it's different then mine - go!

[Andrigan]

Sorry I've been sick this week, so I haven't had time to dissect carefully everything that has been written. However, as a starter,

Vote: Redtail896

This is mostly meta-gaming, but I find his playstyle to be far less investigative than he usually is. I will try and generate a more detailed case later, but I think his posts read to me as either trying to score town points with other townies (specifically his buddying with Thor), or very reactive/passive rather than engaged and scum-searching (this was early on). Again, I will have to go over his posts again with more care, but I wanted to get some material out there for people to think about (especially a vote).

I think Far_cry was suspicious of Redtail as well. Is this still the case? I know that Thor has presented some skepticism about Redtail being scum. But what do you think Far_cry now?

[redtail896]

^Wonders what games I have ever played with Andrigan (answer, none), and what metagaming he's talking about.

[Andrigan]

^ How very reactive (surprisingly)! I'm referring to the way I know how you play IRL! I like my vote where it is at the moment.

[Thor665]

We might need to make a list of who isn't buddying with me in this game - why is that part of so many cases? Do I have a known meta for succumbing to buddying I should be aware of?

[Andrigan]

We might need to make a list of who isn't buddying with me in this game - why is that part of so many cases? Do I have a known meta for succumbing to buddying I should be aware of?

The buddying I am referring to is from this quote:

@Thor, I'm not voting DH because I'm deciding between him and signer. The "case" against you is so absurd that, if I didn't know better, I would consider it RVS.

The emphasis here seemed a bit stark for me. Even though I believe Thor is town, I'm not sure the case against Thor that Redtail is referring to is totally absurd or deserving of quotes around the word. This kind of certainty would seem characteristic of a cop had it been day 2, and the cop had already received a town reading for the person. Since it is day 1 and no cop investigations have taken place, I find Redtail's dismissal suspicious (as scum trying to score town points).

[redtail896]

@Thor, I'm not voting DH because I'm deciding between him and signer. The "case" against you is so absurd that, if I didn't know better, I would consider it RVS.

The emphasis here seemed a bit stark for me. Even though I believe Thor is town, I'm not sure the case against Thor that Redtail is referring to is totally absurd or deserving of quotes around the word. This kind of certainty would seem characteristic of a cop had it been day 2, and the cop had already received a town reading for the person. Since it is day 1 and no cop investigations have taken place, I find Redtail's dismissal suspicious (as scum trying to score town points).

The case against Thor was "all you've been doing is confuse and bugger the shit out of town" and "You're being horribly anti-town now with the sarcasm and terrible responses." None of those points are given any substantial backing, and some are downright wrong as far as I'm concerned (particularly the sarcasm one being anti-town). I feel completely comfortable classifying this case as "absurd."

[Chevre]

Vote Count 5

(2) Thor665 (signersigner, DemonHybrid
(1) Far_Cry (jimfinn)
(1) DemonHybrid (Thor665)
(1) ThAdmiral (Nexus)
(1) singersigner (nhammen)
(1) jimfinn (Far_Cry)
(1) redtail896 (Adrigan)

(3) Not Voting (ThAdmiral, redtail896, Devon)

With

11

players alive, it takes

6

votes to lynch!
The deadline is

October 8th

.
Replacing Devon.
Prodding ThAdmiral.

[nhammen]

Please replace me as well - I don't have time for this right now, and I'm not going to keep wasting everyone's time.

Please understand Devon's situation here, we've all been really swamped with work and personal problems, I've been lucky enough to find time to post but not everyone is that lucky.

Come back when you have the time, you're very welcome to join another game with me in the future, Dev =)

He's replacing out. Is there any reason for you to say this?

@nhamman - what's the case on singersinger again? I see scumminess there but I have to wonder why the guy *sheeping* her "case" is not as worthy for a vote?

Well, at first it was just her attempts to portray you as scummy for little to no reason, and her defensiveness (both for why she commented on one thing but not a similar one, and the premature defense of that post), which are both small tells but were still enough to boost her above other players. Then she voted you for... I'm still not sure what she believes the case is, because I see none.
As for your second question, I saw Town-tells from Demon. This could just be really bad play.

@nhammen...anyone "trying" to be pro-town, means they're not. If "you" were actually pro-town, "you" wouldn't have to try, know what I mean?

First of all, show where he is "trying" instead of "doing". Second of all, I have, and usually do "try" to be pro-Town when I am Town. So your logic fails in any case.

@nhammen: I will try to reply to your posts tomorrow, when I have more and time and will be thinking better.

So is this going to happen at some point?

The buddying I am referring to is from this quote:

@Thor, I'm not voting DH because I'm deciding between him and signer. The "case" against you is so absurd that, if I didn't know better, I would consider it RVS.

The emphasis here seemed a bit stark for me. Even though I believe Thor is town, I'm not sure the case against Thor that Redtail is referring to is totally absurd or deserving of quotes around the word. This kind of certainty would seem characteristic of a cop had it been day 2, and the cop had already received a town reading for the person. Since it is day 1 and no cop investigations have taken place, I find Redtail's dismissal suspicious (as scum trying to score town points).

What part of the "case" do you find to have any truth to it? What part of the case do you believe has any possibility at all of indicating an anti-Town alignment?

[DemonHybrid]

He's replacing out. Is there any reason for you to say this?

She's new and was rather embarrassed about replacing out. I know her IRL (she goes to the same college as I do).

[singersigner]

He's replacing out. Is there any reason for you to say this?

She's new and was rather embarrassed about replacing out. I know her IRL (she goes to the same college as I do).

Then you can be the one to console her IRL, not make excuses for her here. People replace out all the time. It's not your job to make excuses. To me, it sounds like you're just trying to protect someone. I really don't like this. You're not sitting well with me at all anymore. Thor's responses to my questions have been acceptable, but you're still making excuses for someone who's not even here anymore.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: DemonHybrid

[DemonHybrid]

Singer, it's her FIRST GAME. Let's look at this from a non-game perspective.

Someone wants to try to play mafia. She joins a game, and I tell her to try not to join too many and replace out because a bad rep is something you do not want on mafiascum.

However, RL work gets to be too much for her and she can't find time to reply, so she's forced to. She feels embarrassed about it, so I decide to back her up in this case, regardless of alignment or past play.

And you're going to fucking vote me because of it? Okay.