Trouble in Minas Tirith! Game over!

[CoolBot]

Check on confirmation.

[CoolBot]

Dutchman, that's a lot of infomation in one night. How are we supposed to believe you're not feeding us misinformation?

[CoolBot]

After sleeping on it, I don't think FD should come out with his role. He's already painted a big target on himself, and I don't think we need to add neon arrows pointing to it.

ZONEACE, your claim contradicts an apparently info gathering role. Do you have any explanation for this?

[CoolBot]

From the way FD discribed his ability, it sounds like Zone had to actually pass through the gate to be seen. So, FD wouldn't have seen him if someone had simply targeted him. In my mind, ZONEACE hasn't adequatly explained why he was passing through the gate. If FD is telling the truth, ZONEACE was out at night and I hardly think Macros wouldn't tell him so. Any explanation, Zone?

[CoolBot]

ZONEACE still won't explain why he was out. And I find it

very

unlikely he'd be dragged through town withough being told so.

vote: ZONEACE

[CoolBot]

I don't really know what. We've probably found a mafia here, so I doubt any others will make any sort of move at all, except for maybe making the lynching vote.

Unless you want do discuss what to do with FD's role. I'm not so sure it'd be a good idea to broadcast which gate he's watching, though.

[CoolBot]

I don't think it's a good idea to assume a vig killed on night 1. It doesn't make much sense, unless the vig is compelled to kill. A doc may have just gotten lucky, or maybe there were only two Haradrim. I really think the doc is most likely.

Both fishbulb and Werebear were beheaded, so they were probably killed by the same group, so the beheadeder is probably not a Haradrim. Also, I think DP & Mordango were killed by the same group; both of their deaths involve pillars of stone.

Dutchman, who did you see was out?

The Encyclopedia of Arda has this to say:

A little-known land lying directly to the east of Mordor, and its traditional ally.

So, another evil?

[CoolBot]

I suppose my last paragraph was a little unclear. I was talking about the men from Khand.

[CoolBot]

FD: I don't think that you should reveal the other person that passed the gate coz theres a chance he could be town, a scum, or even the powerful role ur talking about. I don't think it's worth risking a roleclaim with such a powerful role at risk during the roleclaim.
If he is the powerful role he'll be in danger of the mafia after claiming and we don't want that.

But just for the record whos the other person that pasted the gates?

I'm confused, Banana Bob. In your first sentence, you don't want Dutch to reveal the other person, but in the last, you asked who it was? Why the change in mind?

[CoolBot]

Hmm, I don't think either Leo or BB are docs, but I don't think that means there are no docs left. Leo hasn't been posting much at all, so I think he might be scum.

fos: Leonidas

. I'm waiting for a response.

Also, I don't think I understand your reasoning, Dutchman. Why is it necessary that you saw both a doc and someone who targeted you, if anyone did? Couldn't they just protect/attack you from the same side of the gate as you?

[CoolBot]

I think we should give him a little bit of time before voting him off. It is the holidays, after all.

Flying Dutchman, why do you think that everyone who targets you necessarily walks through the gate you're watching? What if they originate from the same side you are watching from?

[CoolBot]

Hmm, some good points, Thoth. I'll wait until Riven responds, before doing anything, though.

[CoolBot]

Dutch, you're getting Merry confused with Pippen. Merry was with the Rohirrim and rode with Eowyn. Still, it stricks me as unlikly that Merry has no powers, especially if the Witch King is in the game. Also, Riven claim reminds me a lot of Zone's. Both claimed someone who fought with the Rohirrim and has no abilities.

I'm not convinced. Do you have anything else, Riven?

[CoolBot]

Is no one else struck by the similarities of Riven's and Zone's claims? Both claimed to be a character that rode with the Rohirrim and both said they don't have any abilities. They are essentially making the same claim with different names.

Beginning this game, I would've though Eomer would certainly be in it. In fact, I would have unvoted Zone, except for his insistence he was not out at night. Now, it seems Eomer isn't in the game; why should we assume Merry is? Riven did, after all, defend Zone.

[CoolBot]

A clever (or, perhaps, just one that doesn't check the board very often) Eomer would wait to see if ZONEACE was going to be lynched anyway without needing to reveal who he was.

I hadn't thought of that. I guess we can take Riven at his word right now, but I'm not convinced of his innocence.

Oh, and I'd just like to reiterate, Pippen, don't come out.

[CoolBot]

I had an idea on that, actually. Zone claimed Eomer, and I think that was a pretty risky claim for mafia to make in a game this size. What if the Haradrim know that the Rohirrim aren't in the game. That would explain Zone's claim and cast doubt on Riven's claim. I think the likelihood of this being the case is rather low and we shouldn't lynch Riven on this idea, but I wondered what others thought about it.

[CoolBot]

If he's voted elsewhere, than it's pretty likely he's lurking.

vote: Phoebus

[CoolBot]

Phoebus, I'll unvote you when you post something more than worrying about votes.

[CoolBot]

Pheobus, I think if you're going to make a claim, you should give us a name rather than implying something. The chance of being misunderstood or even missed are too great.

no lynch is NOT an option, player with most votes by the deadline gets it.

Pheobus and others who want a no lynch, please stop advocating something we explicitly cannot do.

[CoolBot]

See, I don't think he's been that helpful. It looks to me he's posted what he felt was the minimum to get him off.

[CoolBot]

Why couldn't he say some of these things when the town was discussing them? For example, he is suspicous of Gnome and thinks he's Zone's ally. Why didn't he say that earlier, when the game had slowed down and others were also questioning Gnome's alignment?

His only real new thing is asking about cam's vote on Tigris. This is a good point; I'd like to know why cam voted him also.

But the reason that post failed to sway me is he didn't do this until he was explicity asked to. Half the post is uselss because it only concerns issues already discussed. The other half contains one question of mathcam.

If Pheobus had made this post before being asked to, I'd probably unvote him. But there has been too much equivocation on his part, and I'd like a clear statement on where he stands. Notice his last post was yet another delaying tatic...

[CoolBot]

I too am not convinced of his innocence. But the claim can be easily contradicted later if, say, when we're down to 5 of us, it turns out that Pippen wasn't in the game. Makes for a nice easy kill.

Cam

happy mr blind man?

unvote: pheobus

FoS: pheobus

I believe mathcam was talking about Riven here, so I don't see why that's an explanation for unvoting pheobus. Pheobus hasn't claimed

anything

except for implying a hobbit or dwarf.

[CoolBot]

I'm Gimli.

What's this? Actually doing something to help the town? Well,

unvote: Phoebus

I don't know who we should decide to deadline lynch. I'm not confident of either Gnome or Tigris. Mathcam, why did you vote Tigris?

[CoolBot]

A maf would probably change their vote at the last moment anyway. From their prespective, it's better to lose one mafia than wipe 'em out.

[CoolBot]

Ben also switched is vote to Ages pretty quickly after Tigris's post. And I'm always more suspicous of the person following crap logic than the person offering crap logic. Ben didn't even add anything to Ages logic.

vote: bigbenwd

[CoolBot]

unvote: binbenwd

I believe the claim, unless someone comes out to contradict it.

Macros

, if the town isn't voting anyone by the end of the deadline, what happens? Do you pick a random player to lynch?

[CoolBot]

Of those, I'd say Scenario C is the most likely. Denethor wasn't a traitor, per se. He just didn't handle the death of his son or the impending doom of Gondor well.

[CoolBot]

Agreed. Just as a matter of principle, I'm have to

vote: Ages

[CoolBot]

I can't ever remember a maf pushing a no lynch, but it's in no one's interest except the mafia at this point. If we don't pressure them with the threat of a lynch, then we are effectivly hoping our cops get really lucky.

[CoolBot]

I take your point, mathcam. As I stated in the post I voted ages, I'm voting on principle. No lynch's are bad in the early game, so I discourage it by voting the propoent. As long as no one is behaving scummy, I don't think it's that bad of an idea to vote a no lyncher.

[CoolBot]

Was that supposed to be your claim? If so, I find it to be nearly devoid of any actual content.

[CoolBot]

Here's the link to the Woses discription in EoA, if anyone needs it.

If I recall correctly, didn't the Woses just help the Rohirrim to the batttle, and didn't actually fight. From EoA, it seems they were also the Wild Men, and I'm pretty sure they didn't fight. I don't really buy Ages claim.

[CoolBot]

mlaker, I'm pretty sure Beregond was pretty much who Dutch said he was: he watched specific gates and knew who went through them.

And bigben, I don't think you should've came out so soon; you've just painted a pretty large target on yourself. Aparently, you can verify claims, so if we bandwagon thoth to a claim, you can verify it. Thus,

vote: thoth

[CoolBot]

I know, I shouldn't have, I tried not to, but y'all bandwaggoned me, and I figured it would've been a bigger threat to the town if I lied and got lynched that day instead of just claiming.

Oops, I forgot you had claimed earlier. Coming out with Thoth was a good idea, then.

[CoolBot]

What about the possiblity of a vig? Of course, if a vig got a correct kill, it'd be Tigris, and I sure can't think of any pro-town roles that would stew someone. Though that's also seems to be the new kill type. Hmm.

[CoolBot]

I think part of mathcam's plan was after noting whether or not one killed, one would name the next person. I'll go now; I didn't kill anyone.

UT?

[CoolBot]

Bah! Leo, then.

[CoolBot]

Here's a list of who's gone so far:
Scalebane
Pheobus
mlaker
Dragon Slayer
Mr_Gnome_It_All
CoolBot
Mathcam

Those who haven't:
Untrod Tripod
Leonidas

Though Leo has apparently been cleared. I don't know if that should mean Leo shouldn't say whether he killed or not. After all, there are pro-town roles that may kill.

[CoolBot]

Alright, mathcam, who's lieing?

[CoolBot]

Yes. You were right, we should debate on whether or not to hang you up.

Why? I think it was a pretty good ploy by mathcam; only problem was it didn't work. Although we did learn the fourth kill probably wasn't a vig. Even that little bit of info's pretty useful.

[CoolBot]

Er, Merry's already revealed himself:

Woah, slow down people, your about to lynch a 'Merry' hobbit.

[CoolBot]

I'm Halbarad, commander of the Northern Dunedian. Any night, I may command the Dunedian to attack someone, but, if I encounter evil, I will die. So I'm a vig type role who dies if I target scum.

Scalebane?

[CoolBot]

So will you and the evil die?

Yep.

Is there any other Dunedains?

Well, there's Aragorn. Other than that, I don't think so. From my PM, it sounds like the Dunedian is just flavor for my role.

[CoolBot]

No. I haven't been sure enough of anyone to try it.

[CoolBot]

mathcam, I kill anyone I target. Maybe you don't mind losing pro-town roles, but I sure do.

[CoolBot]

Well, sorry for the confusion. Looking back, I see I could've been clearer when I used the word 'attack.'

[CoolBot]

Hmm, both are claiming a random ability. I'm not sure which one is more likely. Does anyone know if Macros tends to use random roles or not?

[CoolBot]

Oh, and UT, name?

[CoolBot]

vote: Scalebane

He is more likely to be scum, I think. BTW, the warden doesn't actually have a name in the book.

[CoolBot]

Bah, the Witch King killed me? Oh well, I was about to kill him anyway.

[CoolBot]

Check your sent box, bigben. It might be there.

Pheobus, do you have any idea why UT said he only had a 25% chance of protecting? That I don't get, and is why I thought you were the scum left.