Open 253: Sea Container C9++ [GAME OVER]

[Katsuki]

AHA

GUESS WHAT

WE HAS SCUM IN MOTHRAX.

[Nexus]

semi v/la until Saturday.

Sorry.

[a2rudeboy]

Checking in.

A whole lot to digest in the last couple of pages. Moth- I understand that you were mainly looking for reactions/thoughts of what people would think about a massclaim. But as others have said before me, it just doesn't make any sense at all to do it this early in the game. it's massively scummy. but i feel this point has been sort of beat into oblivion by now.

Along these lines, SA- Why is Moth town?

[mothrax]

Limited access untill I can type with my left hand again... apparently running knives through fingers is bad form.

I will be around and be reading, but my posting will be sporadic and mostly done on my phone since it only requires using one hand to type.

[sirdanilot]

Votecount:
Katsuki (2): Nexus, mothrax
yellowbounder (1): andrew94
jmj3000 (1): Sleepless Assassin
mothrax (3): Alduskkel, Katsuki, mongoose
Sleepless Assassin (1): Mafuyu

Not Voting (10): yellowbounder, jmj3000, a2rudeboy

With 11 people, it's 6 votes to lynch.


note: yellowbounder has been prodded

[Alduskkel]

I don't really think Mothrax thought massclaim through, at all. Scum would just claim vanilla and sit back and watch any/all Town PRs expose themselves. Then, systematic NKing. Mothrax, did you even stop to think about it?

Some pretty obvious OMGUS, and I'll explain why:

and since I am going to get called out for OMGUS, this is in another post:
My top scumreads ATM are Mafuyu and Katsuki.
They both hopped on Sleepless when he was pushing a case on jmj, and while it was admitadly not a strong one, it was more than others were doing. As soon as they say that wasn't going anywhere, Kat jumped on me for a stupid reason, and was closely followed by Maf, who was wishy-washy enough to accuse me, call me scum, say we needed a wagon on me, but not vote me.
Unvote; Vote Katsuki

Mafuyu explained his reason for voting for SA, then Katsuki copied his reason (that would annoy me if it wasn't early on). So, explain why Mafuyu's reasoning was flawed.

Then we come to your accusation that their votes suck. You don't explain why Katsuki's vote is "stupid" and Mafuyu has definitely given a detailed explanation on why you are scummy and why mass claim would suck. Right now you are just blustering at Katsuki and Mafuyu without backing up anything you say, mothrax.

So I will keep my now not-random vote.

[Sleepless Assassin]

relevant because [redacted] and the way kat and maf keep piling votes with a few others, a quicklynch is what is going to end up happening.

No one is more than halfway to a lynch yet. We're fine.

@SA: It was a general question, therefore anyone that had any idea could have answered it. To the second, Mafuyu DID sum up that entire letter argument right underneath. To the third, because you were doing it for an odd amount of time and it was Mafuyu's belief that you still retained that intent. Lastly, Mafuyu's last C9++ had "X died as Doctor. There was 1 death. Y is not dead, and Mafuyu would have gone after Y. Therefore, Mafuyu is scum" as a method of attack (by the SK). It worked.

I've never played this setup.

Oh, so the letter thing pretty much meant that other thing that I responded to by saying "Why are you still acting like I am metaing Jmj's play?". I was never metaing his play specifically. I was showing that he would have good reason as scum to kill a player who is now dead. Jmj is responsible for the murder of the innocent furcolow.

To the SK thing, it worked how? It caught scum? What difference does it make if they SK caught scum or if town did? They were right either way. And town could use it the same way the SK did.

Along these lines, SA- Why is Moth town?

His posts read as genuine to me. On a related note, one of {Alduskkel, Katsuki, mongoose} is scum. Maybe two of them.

I don't really think Mothrax thought massclaim through, at all. Scum would just claim vanilla and sit back and watch any/all Town PRs expose themselves. Then, systematic NKing. Mothrax, did you even stop to think about it?

This sounds like you are talking to someone who you think made a poor play as town rather than someone who you think is scum.

[mothrax]

I'm not calling their votes stupid, I'm saying they are voting me fore stupidity, not scumminess. I did think it through, but I miss things sometimes which is why I wanted other oppinions on the matter.

[Nexus]

I'm gonna have to extend my v/la until Monday Evening. Something's come up.

[mongoose]

I'm actually starting to think Moth is town by the way he reacts. Just a bit. Leaving my vote for now though.

[a2rudeboy]

Jmj is responsible for the murder of the innocent furcolow.

Do you still believe this, or was this an explanation of your initial vote? If you believe this, is there anything that has happened in game so far which makes you see Jmj as scum?

On a related note, one of {Alduskkel, Katsuki, mongoose} is scum. Maybe two of them.

Should your vote then be on one of them?

[Alduskkel]

I don't really think Mothrax thought massclaim through, at all. Scum would just claim vanilla and sit back and watch any/all Town PRs expose themselves. Then, systematic NKing. Mothrax, did you even stop to think about it?

This sounds like you are talking to someone who you think made a poor play as town rather than someone who you think is scum.

Not really. I point out why Mothrax is wrong, and then I imply that any Town player would see this obvious flaw. Therefore, that means mothrax isn't town.

[Katsuki]

I have never heard of a town-motivated day1 mass-claim in a non-open setup. Just saying.

[Alduskkel]

Where is everyone? No posting in 24+ hours...

[Sleepless Assassin]

I'm not calling their votes stupid, I'm saying they are voting me fore stupidity, not scumminess. I did think it through, but I miss things sometimes which is why I wanted other oppinions on the matter.

Can you lay out your thought process for us? What led you to believe massclaim might be a positive thing for us?

Do you still believe this, or was this an explanation of your initial vote? If you believe this, is there anything that has happened in game so far which makes you see Jmj as scum?

Yes, I still believe that. I also don't like his initial defense that he replaced out of the game when he admits he followed it, making the fact that he replaced out entirely null. And the "Nice try, but try harder" in his first post seems like an attempt to discredit me completely hoping I'll drop the issue and if I don't, then no one will listen anyway. Then he twists my case completely to make it out like I'm metaing his play in the other game and attempts to make the replacement defense relevant again (Protip: It's not.). Then he actually listens and says he would have kept furcolow alive because of furc's play in that game (Protip: Furc named the "confirmed town" scum team at one point). Then he's back to twisting my case into "he's scum because he knew the scum team in another game". His ISO 7 just speaks for itself. He's very defensive there.

Oh, and in 9 posts, what has he done to contribute to the game? Defend himself? Sure. Call out Mongoose active lurking? Ok. What else? Who has he voted? No one. Who does he think is scum. I dunno.

[Sleepless Assassin]

Oh, Ald responded. Oops.

I don't really think Mothrax thought massclaim through, at all. Scum would just claim vanilla and sit back and watch any/all Town PRs expose themselves. Then, systematic NKing. Mothrax, did you even stop to think about it?

This sounds like you are talking to someone who you think made a poor play as town rather than someone who you think is scum.

Not really. I point out why Mothrax is wrong, and then I imply that any Town player would see this obvious flaw. Therefore, that means mothrax isn't town.

So getting a scum role affects a player's ability to spot flaws in setup discussion? Note taken.

[jmj3000]

Ok SA, here goes. You start off accusing me of killing furc because of harry potter mafia. You say I did it because he named the scum team day 1. Once I replaced out I had no stake in that game. He got lucky in that game when he named the scum team. He also got unlucky when town believed reaper based on flavor alone. Even as confirmed town, he couldn't convince town. I didn't even know he had named the scum team since he did it day one when I wasn't around. Honestly, I think you killed furc just to set up this "case" on me. You also keep saying you aren't metaing my play. Referring to any past game of mine is using meta. As for my posts this game, I have had no choice but be on the defensive because you keep attacking me.

[Mafuyu]

Mafuyu bets a nickel that this be silly scum banter.

[Mafuyu]

To be more specific: jmj has no reason to continue arguing AGAINST SA's attack, as it has been deemed more or less vague and/or weak by enough active players. The fact that he continues the argument suggests either: A. Tunneling between two players or B. Scum gambit.

[mothrax]

This was my thought behind massclaim: When we know what roles are in the game we can work backwards to narrow down the possible letter combinations to less than 10 and have an idea of which are most likely. From there we could extrapolate which claims don't really fit or are statistically improbable, giving us a good chance at finding scum. Since the cons have been pointed out, I no longer support this. but hey, here is a thought... I ASKED BECAUSE I WANTED TO HEAR OTHERS THOUGHTS ON IT!!! not because I am scum and fishing, not because I am too lazy... A decent amount of setup speculation is healthy and in a setup I haven't played, I look at all angles.

I didn't even think about VT claims (yeah, stupid, I know)

[Mafuyu]

Well, considering that they comprise 50% of all rolls...

[andrew94]

i believe that use of meta fails..

[mongoose]

please tell me that wasn't the analysis jmj has been promising

[jmj3000]

mongoose, wrong game >.>

[mongoose]

-_-

oops