NY 118 - BBM's Large Normal Mafia (Game!)

[Gorrad]

EBWOP: Wraith first.

[Antihero]

1. Xite asked for examples, so I gave them to him. That wasn't my case.

What is your case, then?

2. I agree with Wraith's case, only contributing more, in the overall scheme of things, of why I feel like I can no longer trust Xite's analysis of the game.

OK, after "only contributing more", the sentence ceases to make sense. Please elucidate.

3. Did I say Bunny's behavior was ok?

Well, you pooh-poohed his wagon.

4. Hmm...you didn't notice my "blatant buddying" with Wraith in my ISO#35? It makes me feel like you're grasping at things to make me look scummier now that I've actually put myself out there to make a case against someone.

1) you're pulling out a random quote that's not really buddying/piggybacking before I had to do my 50+ page catchup, so who's grasping at things now?
2) self-victimization is scummy

5. You're right, I let my emotions get the best of me sometimes, but that doesn't mean that I have to agree with the way others do the same.

Great

6. You're pointing out the one thing that's condescending in my post, and completely overlooking all the other condescending comments of Xite's...who has consistently made them this entire game.

The difference is, Xite isn't pointing out everyone else's aggression and calling it scummy (which you have yet to explain, by the way).

I really don't like that you're doing that. It's called misrepping...or hypocrisy. You choose.

I choose... OMGUS!

[flinter]

Then there's this gem. It's the sole "possibility" Xite is willing to entertain in his list of theories, this one being that dana is scum:

-Is scum
--He will probably eventually give us one guilty of at least one of his scumbuddies.

Laughably bad logic. Unless dana utterly and completely failed at coherent thought, he would never give us a realy guilty on one of his scumbuddies. In fact, his only guilty was on a townie. Let's look at those innocents...oh wait, you're one of them. But I've mentioned that.

Awesome case, Wraith. I would advise everybody to take a look at it. The above point is by far the best. No sane town would defend a probable fakeclaimed cop with "he will give us a guilty on scum anyway".

[My Milked Eek]

Hi, posting later today :3

[Bunnylover]

Then there's this gem. It's the sole "possibility" Xite is willing to entertain in his list of theories, this one being that dana is scum:

-Is scum
--He will probably eventually give us one guilty of at least one of his scumbuddies.

Laughably bad logic. Unless dana utterly and completely failed at coherent thought, he would never give us a realy guilty on one of his scumbuddies. In fact, his only guilty was on a townie. Let's look at those innocents...oh wait, you're one of them. But I've mentioned that.

Awesome case, Wraith. I would advise everybody to take a look at it. The above point is by far the best. No sane town would defend a probable fakeclaimed cop with "he will give us a guilty on scum anyway".

Your wrong. It makes a lot of sense for scum to give away one of their own, especially one that is just a goon.
What I don't understand is that their is several people who are pushing for Xite lynch, when the same reason you are pushing for his lynch, I have done. I have also played much scummier then he has by making a ton of idiotic errors.
Exactly why is Xite the one who should die today and not me?

[flinter]

bunny, why are you asking me to vote you?

And I vote xite over you because you didn't make the explicit point that scum

would

give away one of their own. Well, until the last post.

[Wraith]

EBWOP: Wraith first.

I did respond. Look for it, please, I don't have time to dig around.

@Bunny, Antihero: Will you PLEASE focus on the actual scum? Singer has been pretty townie all game (flinter probably less so but that's not the point). Stop screwing around with different suspects and let's lynch the obvscum. I have too many suspects at the moment for them all to be scum (I suspect only one scum left at this point) so right now I'm going for my number one. I suggest you do the same.

[Bunnylover]

bunny, why are you asking me to vote you?

And I vote xite over you because you didn't make the explicit point that scum

would

give away one of their own. Well, until the last post.

I don't want you to vote for me, but the cases that are against Xite revolve around defending Dana which I did also, I use the exact same defense Xite had posted with scum would give up their scum buddy to keep them alive.
I find it fishy that Xite will be called out for it, and I haven't yet. The reason I find it fishy is because I know if we go into the next day, someone going to call me out for it.
Obviously I believe their is scum on Xite wagon. Scum are pushing for Xite to die, kill a townie during the night, let the vig/sk kill someone (they don't have to worry because they are immune to night kill due to the role of GF), then just bring up, "Oh hey look Bunny did the same thing that Xite did," and then an actually case of my play will be brought up, I will be lynch, and I think that would be over =/.

[Wraith]

Bunny, I think you're missing the point. The point isn't what the scum would or wouldn't do anymore, the point is that DANA WAS SCUM AND XITE WAS USING CRAPLOGIC TO KEEP HIM ALIVE.

[flinter]

"Fluffy thing's everyone else has said..."

Both the current wagons are not that bad, but I have a lot more confidence in the Xite wagon then in bunnylover's. This being based on votecount analysis.


Shanba, your case on Gorrad isn't that bad, but I don't think we'll see a Gorrad lynch today, if things stay roughly the same. If you had to choose between a Bunnylover lynch or a Xite lynch, which would you choose? You would be more protown if you followed that reasoning with your vote (or improved your case on Gorrad or started a good case somewhere else), as now your vote isn't going to help the town.

Ooh, may I see this analysis. I'm very very interested. Or again, I'm gonna call some more bullshit on this.

Oh the classic choice question. This should by no means be coming up until 2 days before deadline. Just sayin.

I have more on the way too.

If you are going to keep misrepping every post I make, don't hide it at the end of a wall of post. At least give me a fair chance to point out what mess you are making here.

I clearly gave shanba

three

options. Follow either of the bandwagons

or think of something new, either on Gorrad, or on someone else

. On this moment I have a townread on Shanba, but I really want him to do scumhunting that others would agree with. It's just a better use of his scumhunting qualities. Now, I made this very clear, then why do you misrep me by saying that I give him only two options.

NVM, you aren't going to answer accusations anyway. You have avoided points all game as soon as they became serious. The only thing you do is post, post, post to confuse everybody.

Is it surprising that you have basically attacked every post of me, since I was the first person who suspected you, back in day 1? I don't think so.

[Xite91]

1) Bolded. Nice way to discredit him. And then discredit me anyways later. Funny, that.
2) Underlined. Horrible, horrible WIFOM. I mean, really horrible.

3) You were the one perpetuating it. We had the sensible and ultimately CORRECT explanation.

4) This is an excellent example of the Chainsaw Defense. Xite has managed to discredit Robb while simultaneously avoiding the main point (it's stupid for the scum to leave a claimed cop free).

JUST BECAUSE YOU HAVE SAID SOMEONE WAS TOWN DOES NOT MEAN THEY ARE THE MOST OBVTOWN PLAYER IN THE GAME. I HAD A LOT OF SUSPICION OF WICKED, SO HE WASN'T OBVTOWN TO ME, AND APPARENTLY NOT TO A FEW OTHERS EITHER. Sorry, just had to point out to wraith that his opinion is not truth and law.

5) I can apply this same logic to your opinion on dana, only my logic would have been more sensible in example. Oh, and in the end, I was right. Both times.

NOW if I recall, Xite never voted for dana on day 1 to me is yet another red flag.

Then vote and attack me, stop trying to see if there's still enough people suspicious of me to get a wagon on me. This is spaghetti throwing. And you've already done it twice just today, with just me.
Also, I never voted him because I found other people to be scummier.

OHMYGODROBBI'MGOINGTOFUCKINGKILLYOU

6) Robb raised a very excellent point here and I think it needs to be brought up again. Why didn't you vote for the scumminest player during early day 1? You defended him ferociously during day 3. Yet dana was scum, and obviously so at several points. *Rum rum ruuuuuuum*

7) Let's also bring up that the MAFIA GOON FAKECLAIMED COP CLAIMED AN INNOCENT RESULT ON XITE, WHO ENDED UP BEING HIS MOST AVID DEFENDER THROUGHOUT THE GAME. Scum trying to clear a scumbuddy of suspicion, oh so much.

8) Bolded: I would. Any sane person would. Only scum would attempt to defend like this.
9) Italicized and Underlined: More ad hominem. And strawman, too. He avoids the main point and attacks the grammar of the sentence.

10) Laughably bad logic. Unless dana utterly and completely failed at coherent thought, he would never give us a realy guilty on one of his scumbuddies. In fact, his only guilty was on a townie. Let's look at those innocents...oh wait, you're one of them. But I've mentioned that.

At this point I think I've said enough about Xite's defense of dana Day 3. It relied completely on WIFOM and Ad Hominem, and bad ones at that.

11) Let's take a look at something the ACTUAL cop said:

...

12) On a final note, let's remember this:

Dana-cop-targeting discussion ends now

I'm tired now. I wanted to go into Xite's Day 4 actions, but all this stuff is starting to hurt my head. And I didn't even go through all of the Xite-Dana Chainsaw Defense.

1) I giggled a little. Seriously.
First, I said it was horrible because it was leaving out some of the facts IIRC. Second, his discrediting was definitely different than what I did, wanna know why?
He said this; "You're right, but since it's you saying it you're probably wrong" He had done that a few times. It's a good way of fence-sitting AND it's him trying to get other people to say, "oh, wraith said this about his attacker, so it must just be OMGUS"
I said this; "Your VC is horrible, but there is one point I agree with"
Why is mine scummy again?
2) Sorry, but it's very true according to EVERYTHING I've seen in mafia with a claimed cop.
3) Yeah, but it was too WIFOMy and we could have come back to it later.
4) Can you please explain how that was a chainsaw defense? I'm not seeing it.
5) That quote is left there, and for good reason. You are stretching that WAAAY too far.
lessee, I would first like you to point out where I said dana was obvtown.
Second, I was getting annoyed that you were pointing out "obvtown" as anyone that defended you
Third, OHMYGOD you were right. Good job. Want a cookie? Seriously, I know another reason you could be right. You're scum. Only thing is, I still am having my doubts, but I'm about ready to reverse all of my reads, because that seems to be what's been right lately.
Fourth, Nice way to point out how "perfect" you are. Considering that's a scum tactic and all. Just sayin.
6) Well, first, because the wagon was building on him. Fast.
Second, because I had suspicions of people ON the wagon.
And then third, when I got back on and read through to the point that I decided dana needed lynching, he had already claimed cop.
I think I said this.
7) Or maybe he expected me to do the SAME DAMN THING I DID THE DAY BEFORE AND PROTECT THE CLAIMED COP? Just maybe.
Then, even if he gets lynched, he has someone else that's going to get lynched with him.
It's called buddying, look it up.
8) Then call me crazy? Sorry, but I've obviously seen things work differently than you have.
9) Do you remember what Ad Hom means? If so I'd like you to point out where I did it
Also, no I was not attacking the grammar. Learn to take things in context. I was attacking that quote based on another quote where he contradicted himself.
10) Dumbass. (there's your Ad Hom) If I was scum I would claim a guilty on one of my partners after 1 or 2 innocents on town, then 2 more inno's but 1 on one of my partners if I make it that far. Wanna know why? That clears me as an "actual" cop AND it clears one of my partners. Plus, if I get lynched, they're gonna go after the Innos I claimed.
Also, his scum claim on hiphop was AFTER I said he would claim a guilty on a scumbuddy, and he was almost obviously going to be lynched. Think about it, he would possibly be able to last another day (get hiphop lynched) and then take out a townie too because of his inno on me.
11) Yeah, he said I am PROBSCUM

if

dana flips scum. He did NOT say I was scum. Think about it. For just a second. That means he did not investigate me, otherwise he'd be WAY more definite about it.
12) Annnnnnd?
Remember I wasn't the only one that said things like that.
I'm pretty sure gorrad did.
And pacman.
And I could go make a list if you like.
I was the only one that REALLY vocalized it.

Anyways, I'll respond to everything else in a minute

[Bunnylover]

Bunny, I think you're missing the point. The point isn't what the scum would or wouldn't do anymore, the point is that DANA WAS SCUM AND XITE WAS USING CRAPLOGIC TO KEEP HIM ALIVE.

You are missing the point lol.
The game is always what the scum will do =/.
Dana was scum, yes.
The people who have voted against Xite has brought up that Xite was defending Dana.
No one has brought up the fact that I had defended Dana using the same logic, and most likely I posted before Xite.
In conclusion, Scum see Xite as a much bigger threat then I do, and if they can remove him then it will be easy to remove me.

[Wraith]

It was a mutual chainsaw defense, a major, major scumtell. Dana put up an "innocent" on Xite, and Xite attacked anyone who made a case against dana. It was his attempt to both keep dana alive and himself in the clear.

[Xite91]

lol. I'm quoting this because this is

exactly

what I'm talking about. I don't care if it's in your meta to play like this. It's ineffective. My vote on you isn't because I don't like your play, it's because this play that I don't like looks scummy. Also, it's cute that you pointed out that "they're not blowing up at all, it's sarcasm, etc" when I JUST said that what I meant by that was "insult unnecessarily, etc=lots of sarcasm." I'm completely with Wraith on this one. Sorry if that's not what you wanted to hear.

Also, Wraith, you're right about the WIFOM thing. It seems like he was doing plenty of both: calling dana "scummy as hell" but never fully accepting the wagon on him, THEN deciding he's innocent and using WIFOM. Thanks for pointing that out.

Mawr Xite votes plz!

Well don't call it blowing up, please. That just makes it look worse than it actually is. Thats why I said it.
Again, look up my playstyle. Also look and see that it gets results. I used to be nice. I got ignored and usually NK'd.
And then my analysis' were also ignored. See why I do this now? I really hope so.

Also, you can be "scummy as hell" and not be scum.
Frank and robb are fine examples.
Plus, why didn't you "like" the points when they were brought up the at least 2 times before?
Just wondering.

1. Xite asked for examples, so I gave them to him. That wasn't my case.
6. You're pointing out the one thing that's condescending in my post, and completely overlooking all the other condescending comments of Xite's...who has consistently made them this entire game. I really don't like that you're doing that. It's called misrepping...or hypocrisy. You choose.

1) So where's the case?
6) Oh my god consistency? You mean that thing that town has?
Holy shit I think we're onto something.

Awesome case, Wraith. I would advise everybody to take a look at it. The above point is by far the best. No sane town would defend a probable fakeclaimed cop with "he will give us a guilty on scum anyway".

Then why not attack the other people that were saying similar things?
Or maybe just the other people that were saying dana shouldn't be lynched yet?
You're very interesting young one. I'm going to have to go back and look at you.

Your wrong. It makes a lot of sense for scum to give away one of their own, especially one that is just a goon.
What I don't understand is that their is several people who are pushing for Xite lynch, when the same reason you are pushing for his lynch, I have done. I have also played much scummier then he has by making a ton of idiotic errors.

Exactly why is Xite the one who should die today and not me?

I get the point, but posts with things like the bolded always creep me out and are usually said by scum.

@Bunny, Antihero: Will you PLEASE focus on the actual scum?

Singer has been pretty townie all game

(flinter probably less so but that's not the point). Stop screwing around with different suspects and let's lynch the obvscum. I have too many suspects at the moment for them all to be scum (I suspect only one scum left at this point) so right now I'm going for my number one.

I suggest you do the same.

Bolded. There a quite a few posts by a few people that say otherwise. Also, I'm pretty sure you attacked her and called her scummy as well. But I'll go and find it later.
Underlined. Lol, you mean go after your top suspect or his? Just curious.

Bunny, I think you're missing the point. The point isn't what the scum would or wouldn't do anymore, the point is that DANA WAS SCUM AND XITE WAS USING CRAPLOGIC TO KEEP HIM ALIVE.

Lol
Wait a sec, the point isn't what scum would or wouldn't do?
Then how does your "case" on me have any validity?
Just wonderin.

1) If you are going to keep misrepping every post I make, don't hide it at the end of a wall of post. At least give me a fair chance to point out what mess you are making here.

2) I clearly gave shanba

three

options. Follow either of the bandwagons

or think of something new, either on Gorrad, or on someone else

. On this moment I have a townread on Shanba, but I really want him to do scumhunting that others would agree with. It's just a better use of his scumhunting qualities. Now, I made this very clear, then why do you misrep me by saying that I give him only two options.

3) NVM, you aren't going to answer accusations anyway. You have avoided points all game as soon as they became serious. The only thing you do is post, post, post to confuse everybody.

Is it surprising that you have basically attacked every post of me, since I was the first person who suspected you, back in day 1? I don't think so.

1) First, I was doing catch-up posts.
Second, if you're reading you wouldn't have that problem and the fact that I SAID IT gives you a fair chance to "point out what mess

making here.
Third, if you're not reading then you're the one not giving yourself a fair chance, don't blame it on me.
2) Quote for where this third oprion was please? I could have missed it.
3) Lol. I would like you to point out exactly where I've done this. And I would like you to point out every instance, or at least 10 instances, because I'm pretty sure that's just one huge lie right there.
Also, I don't just post, post, post to confuse everybody. I have very little time and a lot of things to respond to, therefore I post everything I need to respond to at once. I'm trying to get better, but that means more posts. I gave you the option of which you'd like to see, IIRC.

[Flameaxe]

I was going to put another votecount here, but it doesn't look like it's changed.

[Wraith]

Okay, consider this:

Xite never even acknowledged Benmage and nhammen, at all. I can't even find a mention of them in his ISO.

Xite's play with dana flip-flopped considerably. During day 1, he attacked dana, then flipped around and attacked everyone else who attacked dana. He backed off completely after the fakeclaim (although most people did too). Then, we have his Day 3 incrdi-WIFOM chainsaw defense.

Do I really need to say more? When I get home tonight, I'll post a series of WoTs as to why Xite is scum, if that's what it takes.

[Xite91]

It was a mutual chainsaw defense, a major, major scumtell. Dana put up an "innocent" on Xite, and Xite attacked anyone who made a case against dana. It was his attempt to both keep dana alive and himself in the clear.

Oh, but I didn't attack everyone that made a case against dana. In fact, I agreed with GOOD points against him, but I was trying to see if anyone was going to use an attack OTHER than WIFOM. Because you should lynch people based on FACTS, not on what COULD have happen. Not lynching them based on some kinds of WIFOM is fine, because if they're scum, you'll find other reasons to lynch. But that's just my opinion.
Also, I don't think I was really "attacking" anyone for making cases on dana, I was pointing out where cases failed and I was telling people to stop the discussion on WIFOM, but I did not attack anyone based on who was attacking dana. Because that was a null tell at that point, unless they were being awfully scummy about it.

[Xite91]

Okay, consider this:

Xite never even acknowledged Benmage and nhammen, at all. I can't even find a mention of them in his ISO.

Xite's play with dana flip-flopped considerably. During day 1, he attacked dana, then flipped around and attacked everyone else who attacked dana. He backed off completely after the fakeclaim (although most people did too). Then, we have his Day 3 incrdi-WIFOM chainsaw defense.

Do I really need to say more? When I get home tonight, I'll post a series of WoTs as to why Xite is scum, if that's what it takes.

I do think I said something about ben, but if you look at it, there were others that did the same. BECAUSE THEY WERE VERY LOW ON EVERYONE'S RADAR. REMEMBER HOW EVERYONE WAS SHOCKED NHAMM WAS SCUM? Sorry, had to make sure you saw that point.

I explained that. Multiple times. Read or shut up. Kthnxbai

[Wraith]

@Xite: I like how you completely ignored my case and instead attacked the weakest comment I made in a later post. To correct the misrep, what I meant was:

"The point isn't what scum would or would not do in regards to blocking/killing/nothing the cop anymore, it's the fact..."

Predit: Yes, you were. You agreed so far as it would keep the distance if he had been lynched, but actively attempted (and succeeded) to derail the wagon against him. I'll post evidence when I can multitab at home.

[Xite91]

@Xite: I like how you completely ignored my case and instead attacked the weakest comment I made in a later post. To correct the misrep, what I meant was:

"The point isn't what scum would or would not do in regards to blocking/killing/nothing the cop anymore, it's the fact..."

Predit: Yes, you were. You agreed so far as it would keep the distance if he had been lynched, but actively attempted (and succeeded) to derail the wagon against him. I'll post evidence when I can multitab at home.

Wow. Read. I will no longer respond to your posts until you do

[flinter]

1) If you are going to keep misrepping every post I make, don't hide it at the end of a wall of post. At least give me a fair chance to point out what mess you are making here.

2) I clearly gave shanba

three

options. Follow either of the bandwagons

or think of something new, either on Gorrad, or on someone else

. On this moment I have a townread on Shanba, but I really want him to do scumhunting that others would agree with. It's just a better use of his scumhunting qualities. Now, I made this very clear, then why do you misrep me by saying that I give him only two options.

3) NVM, you aren't going to answer accusations anyway. You have avoided points all game as soon as they became serious. The only thing you do is post, post, post to confuse everybody.

Is it surprising that you have basically attacked every post of me, since I was the first person who suspected you, back in day 1? I don't think so.

1) First, I was doing catch-up posts.
Second, if you're reading you wouldn't have that problem and the fact that I SAID IT gives you a fair chance to "point out what mess

making here.
Third, if you're not reading then you're the one not giving yourself a fair chance, don't blame it on me.
2) Quote for where this third oprion was please? I could have missed it.
3) Lol. I would like you to point out exactly where I've done this. And I would like you to point out every instance, or at least 10 instances, because I'm pretty sure that's just one huge lie right there.
Also, I don't just post, post, post to confuse everybody. I have very little time and a lot of things to respond to, therefore I post everything I need to respond to at once. I'm trying to get better, but that means more posts. I gave you the option of which you'd like to see, IIRC.

2) you are kidding me. I posted clearly that I didn't see shanba's wagon taking off, and that I would like him to do something else, as the discussion start to draw out.
3) I don't have the time. The last post was on obvious one. The one about the difference between my mysterio case and Wickeds was another from the top of my head. Further, if you have so little time, you are just trying to get me to make another wall of text. I'm not going to do that. However, it is no secret that you like to debate every point I make. If that makes sense or not.

And is this your strategy? "Post 10 quotes for me!", "where did you say that?" (while it was in the post you reacted on initially). You are trying to draw out the debate.

[Antihero]

Wraith, I disagree with your assessment of singer's play.

[Wraith]

Wraith, I disagree with your assessment of singer's play.

I don't care about how you feel about how I feel about singer's play (wow that's a wierd sentence). I care about you voting for the scumbag.

[Xite91]

2) you are kidding me. I posted clearly that I didn't see shanba's wagon taking off, and that I would like him to do something else, as the discussion start to draw out.
3) I don't have the time. The last post was on obvious one. The one about the difference between my mysterio case and Wickeds was another from the top of my head. Further, if you have so little time, you are just trying to get me to make another wall of text. I'm not going to do that. However, it is no secret that you like to debate every point I make. If that makes sense or not.

And is this your strategy? "Post 10 quotes for me!", "where did you say that?" (while it was in the post you reacted on initially). You are trying to draw out the debate.

2) Then I misread and I would like you to point out where you said it. That's all I'm asking.
In actuality, I'm being nice to you and letting you do it yourself, because otherwise I will have to ISO you and will probably have no problem in seeing the scumminess in the rest of your posts. No this is not a threat, it's me telling the honest truth, because I'm going to have to read through your posts in order to see which one says it, if it does. Plus, at the moment, I'm strapped for time (I'm visiting my sig. other's parents and don't know when we're going to be doing more bonding lulz)
3) Oh? Okay, well then I will wait until you do have the time, but please, let it be sometime this game day. That would be appreciated otherwise I'm going to assume it's just more bullshit you're spewing and that you are lying scum that needs to be lynched because that's what it looks like considering you're attacking the most likely lynch candidate of the time with lies and misreps.
Also, I'm not just trying to get you to make another wall of text. I'm trying to get you to point out the multitude of times I've done something you're attacking me for because it's not the truth.
Wait, and now you're really going to make this personal?
Look at me in ISO. How many people have I NOT debated with?
That looks a bit like an odd kind of OMGUS, or at least a "how dare you call me wrong" thing.

[Gorrad]

EBWOP: Wraith first.

I did respond. Look for it, please, I don't have time to dig around.

Just Iso'd you. Can't find it.

Also, correct me in I'm wrong, but it seems to me your case on Xite is based on him not wanting to discuss night actions because of WIFOM. Did he do this D4? Or just D1-3?