Open 226: Big Love - Game over! Town wins!

[mallowgeno]

Ythill, why are you so jumpy? Your votes change like the wind.

[DavidParker]

Honestly, I was suspicious of ythill until he started to votehop and just randomly vote scummy people. The fact he hasn't commited to a vote makes me pretty sure he is town.

[Ythill]

Changing votes =/= jumpy.

[Miyu]

Yes. I said it is

a

scumtell, not

THE

scumtell. I'm really unsure why this is a problem in comprehension. My use of 'a' denotes one of many, rather than 'the' meaning an absolute singular.

Yes, and like I've said. My opinion of her was not based on her replacing out, but

her behavior in the other game

. Which since you quote that post which was not my original statement of my opinion on Xite, leads me to believe that you probably didn't read all of my posts.

Xite, was actually in the last game I replaced in. Which funnily took place at the same time as this one it seems. She

acted much the same way. I think maybe just has an obsession with claiming, and doing it extremely poorly -> wrong timing. Her gambit/plan.. distraction for the town.

Is what I said on the matter in my third post.

Votehopping is not a town tell.

[mallowgeno]

Honestly, I was suspicious of ythill until he started to votehop and just randomly vote scummy people.

The fact he hasn't commited to a vote makes me pretty sure he is town.

Lol. Being indecisive sure isn't a town-tell.

[Sanxion]

Hey guys, just got a better computer. Sorry about that absence. Um, indecisive is more of scum tell, but ytill, what's your defense of "changing votes" so frequently. Also, is there anything about me I need to answer asap because I won't read until tonight.

[Ythill]

Yes. I said it is

a

scumtell, not

THE

scumtell.

I don't care what you said, I care what you

did

. Your reread posts contained a total of 54 bullet points. 25 of those were IoA/null/filler, 3 were towntells. Of the 26 points where you called somone scummy for something, 16 of them were based on lurking and/or wagoning. That's more than all the other tells you listed combined. Since then, you've posted 19 specific accusations; of those, 10 have revolved around lurking and/or wagoning. Again, more than all other tells combined. So, either you think that lurking and wagoning are the be-all-end-all of scumtells or you are up to something else. My

theory

is that you are playing strategically by calling the polar opposite of your own play scummy. If it's true, I don't think that theory proves that you are mafia, but it is something to keep an eye on.

I did read all of your posts (several times, actually) but your isos #1-3 keep making my eyes glaze over. That's beside the point. You mentioned

both

Xite's similar behavior

and

the similar circumstances of replacement. Neither of those things suggest that the slot is town. If true, these things might suggest that certain behaviors are not scumtells from Xite, which means your read should be null. Unless maybe I missed some other reasons you gave for that town read?

ytill, what's your defense of "changing votes" so frequently

I don't see much point in defending against mud-slinging, but I suppose I can humor you...

Search my posts and you will find a few interesting things. You will see that I don't random vote but that I try to put a vote out as early as possible unless the game is in LYLO. You will see that, once I get my vote out, I move it often but rarely remove it entirely. You will see that I use it as a marker for my suspicions, and that I move it as new points are discovered through my analyses. You'll also find places in MD where I argue that vote-movement and grouping is incredibly useful for finding scum, because it creates a game full of dynamic movement and gives the scum more chances to create patterns that reveal their alignments. Now... compare those habits and opinions to my play here.

I replaced in and performed a context reread which lead to me being most suspicious of Miyu, due to what looked like scumslips from Wacka; I would have voted Miyu but I didn't want to place her close to lynch until I was done catching up. Then I performed a wagon analysis which didn't make Miyu's slot look very scummy to me but made mallow's look really bad; I voted mallow. Then I started doing iso rereads. When I did Wacka's, I found evidence suggesting that only one of mallow-Miyu is scum so I removed my vote, placing it temporarily on my third suspect, ZF. A reread of mallow's slot was next up, and it verified the other information I'd found about him and made me realize that if only one of he and Miyu is scum, it's him; so I put my vote back. In continuing my rereads, I was examining Miyu's points and found that one of them against David was valid (and something I missed in my wagon analysis, probably because of confirmation bias). The mod also said she'd be extending the deadline so I figured there was time for more information gathering and moved my vote to DP in an effort to learn more about his alignment, Miyu's, and the alignments of others who reacted to the new lynch prospect.

My votes have flowed from the evidence and my reasoning has been absolutely transparent, except maybe the info gathering motivation on David which, by definition, needs to be tacit to be effective. Those who are calling me out for it are either scum, OMGUSy townies, or bad at mafia. I don't think it's a towntell, especially from me because I do it across my meta, but it certainly doesn't make me scum.

[Ythill]

Self voting is a null tell. I've seen townies do it

I think roughly half of the playerlist has lurked at one point or another.

Lurking is a scumtell.

Lurking and bandwagoning are not town actions; and should not be encouraged. Regardless of whether or not they have been done by confirmed town previously, does not matter.

Hmmmm....

[Ythill]

One more thing... Miyu, are you interested in a bet? If you're town, I'll buy you dinner. If you're scum, you buy.

[DavidParker]

How about we all start a wagon on Ythill? Who else is sick of huge wall posts and wants this game to return to its former glory of mindless band-wagoning???

[Ythill]

Best of luck to you.

[Miyu]

DP, if you were suspicious of Ythill - then why did you agree with him? Why did you not say anything? How is vote-hopping a town tell to you?

Do you have a point with those quotes?

Your

theory

is wrong. I'll take that bet.


Any commentary from the rest of the peanut gallery?

[Miyu]

Yeah. Former glory, of it taking you.. four/fiv epages to realize that you lynched someone...

[Ythill]

The point of the quotes is that you called something a null tell because you have seen town do it and then called something else a scumtell in spite of the fact that you have seen town do it. Does not compute.

I'll take that bet.

Win/win.

[mallowgeno]

The point of the quotes is that you called something a null tell because you have seen town do it and then called something else a scumtell in spite of the fact that you have seen town do it. Does not compute.

I'll take that bet.

Win/win.

They didn't take your bet...

[Ythill]

What?

[DavidParker]

DP, if you were suspicious of Ythill - then why did you agree with him? Why did you not say anything? How is vote-hopping a town tell to you?

Do you have a point with those quotes?

Your

theory

is wrong. I'll take that bet.


Any commentary from the rest of the peanut gallery?

I should have included "sarcasm" tags.

[Mr.Sandman]

Apologies, I'm struggling for time right now but things should clear up within a couple of days I hope. I know the deadline's close so I'll give this game priority if I get the chance but that's the best I can do I'm afraid

[Sanxion]

I think someone directed something at me about how I'm town. (Zero, I believe) Actualy, nothing seems to scream that I am town in this game and I don't have much to say other than DP is weird and looks kinda suspicious for his thoughts on Ythill. Ythill is scummy for jumping on people to seemingly find what sticks. However, I don't really know about the other players other than they don't stick out to me. (Well, Miyu is neutral because though townish now, her prior was pretty meh and unfavorable.)

[Ythill]

If you're going to copy other people, you should probably wait until they make valid points. Also, I thought your towniness was relatively obvious during my reread.

[RedCoyote]

If I were scum, I'd lurk.

Reading back over a few pages, and I found this. I don't get why you'd say this, Sanxion. I mean, I understand your point, but why would you think this "clears you" in anyway?

[DizzyIzzyB13]

hitogoroshi has replaced Muthaa. Welcome him to the game!

[DizzyIzzyB13]

Day Five #7

• DavidParker (Miyu, Ythill) 2 L-3
  mallowgeno (RedCoyote, DavidParker) 2 L-3
  Miyu (hitogoroshi, mallowgeno, Mr.Sandman) 3 L-2
  Muthaa (ZeroFang) 1 L-4

Not voting: Sanxion

With 9 alive, 5 votes are required for a lynch.

V/LA:

Activity Check!

Muthaa has been replaced. Sanxion is apparently back despite missing his prod, so... we're full up?

Prod Count:

Muthaa, smashbro_of_the_SSS - 2

chihuahua0, millar13, Pittbunny, Reverse Simplicity, Sanxion, Shattered Viewpoint, Switz, youngminii - 1

Deadline for Day 5 has been extended to Wednesday, 13th October at 8pm UK time.

[mallowgeno]

Is Miyu really self voting?

Mod: Fixed

[DavidParker]

He's voting for me.