Mini 1057: Unsubsidized Mafia (Game Over!)


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Post Post #275 (ISO) » Mon Oct 04, 2010 6:04 pm

Post by Far_Cry »

redtail896 wrote:VOTE: singersigner

Reasons why:
1. Regarding the early Far Cry wagon:
singersigner wrote:I loled at this. Being a hypocrite gives someone every reason to vote for you unless you can give them a legitimate reason for why it's ok for YOU to do something, and not THEM. Which you have yet to do.
singersigner wrote:Thor, stop being dumb. I see no reason why there needs to be a wagon before everyone's contributed, unless there's been an absolute, 100% scumslip, which Far_Cry has not done IMO.
You clearly thought that Far Cry
was
being a hypocrite, yet you criticized Thor for creating and trying to promulgate a wagon on him. I don't know what kind of "absolute, 100% scumslip" you're looking for on D1.

Later you also produce this gem:
singersigner wrote:The whole hypocrisy thing... :roll: If you're looking for a scum tell in that, you won't find one.
This is a direct contradiction to your previous point of view.

2. The scumlist thing:
singersigner wrote:No. You're just asking him to set up people for NKs and lynch targets during the day. Anyone who posts lists of "least townie to most townie," or anything likewise, will instantly be on my bad side, for doing the work of scum for them.
This borders on theory discussion, but I find it interesting that you are so quick to judge people that simply disagree with you on this tenet of mafia theory. Especially since, by my count, you are in the minority.

3. You're "case" on Thor. I've said it before and I'll say it again: this case is illegitimate hogwash. I will reprint, in full, the post in which you voted for Thor:
singersigner wrote:
Thor665 wrote:
DemonHybrid wrote:Haha, did you just admit something?
Absolutely - I just admitted to being scum - go ahead and vote me and lets get a wagon started, your evidence is pure and irrefutable.
Point made.

Now.

VOTE: Thor665

What makes you so town? As far as I can tell, all you've been doing is confuse and bugger the shit out of town.
I see no reasoning or proof that Thor is/was "confusing and buggering the shit out of the town." (Here it should be noted that I don't like DH's jump onto this wagon any more than your starting of it)
singersigner wrote:Whoops!
Here ya go:
Thor665 wrote:
singersigner wrote:What makes you so town?
What makes me so scum?
I see you've dodged this question, and made a point of calling me out assuming I did the same. The difference is, I accidentally overlooked response in responding to other posts. You deliberately didn't answer the question.
singersigner wrote:As far as I can tell, all you've been doing is confuse and Smurf the Smurf out of town.
How have I done this? Please try to be explicit.
Look at your own ISO. Your posting style is aggressive, and instead of looking for blatantly scummy behavior, you're putting everyone on the defensive for things that may or may not be of any concern...and it's only the first day.
If I had to choose, my best bets would be Thor and Far_Cry...maybe DH, but I dunno.
In your response about Thor dodging the question,
you actually dodge the question
. In addition, your description of scummy behavior is simply a playstyle difference; you don't like Thor's playstyle, and are using it as an excuse for a vote. This case will later be abandoned without any real reasoning given other than "Thor's playstyle is scummy."

4. Your case on DH: amounts to accusing DH of making excuses and defending another player. The problem here (as pointed out by others as well) is that DH's excuses kind of make sense; those would be what I would say in the given situation. It's not really a defense of a scummy player either; it's simply DH explaining why the replacement happened. You don't really explain
why
it's scummy, just like with the Thor case.
I don't like to piggyback or buddy at this point, but this case against singer seems reasonable. You indeed have been quite unclear of your intentions and have contradicted yourself. With the deadline closing in, I will put you at L-1 and VOTE: singersigner[/vote
DemonHybrid wrote:I think that using ellipses and things like "Ugh" are signs of acting. When you are clear and to the point, I think of you as town. Dunno how I can explain that any more clearly.
If she's not scum, and you apparently don't think me as scum, then who do believe is most suspicious at the moment?
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Post Post #276 (ISO) » Mon Oct 04, 2010 6:31 pm

Post by DemonHybrid »

Thor.
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Post Post #277 (ISO) » Tue Oct 05, 2010 1:08 am

Post by Sotty7 »

singersigner Post 274 wrote:UNVOTE:
I don't think I ever did that when I meant to.
Why did you mean too?
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Post Post #278 (ISO) » Tue Oct 05, 2010 6:29 am

Post by singersigner »

Because I had only put a vote on him for pressure. I don't have the time to present a legitimate case and vote accordingly right now.

I'm getting some tests done in the hospital so I definitely won't be able to post til much later today if not tomorrow. and I
definitely
won't have time to go back and find those questions addressed to me til then. If you'd like to get answers, I'd like to not have to sift through the thread again. Common courtesy.

Although I think there was something about me dodging a question in there somewhere. 1. Why is it ok for Thor to do it and not me? 2. He had asked me to present a case against him, and I said I would (still pending). He has yet to answer my question. Making someone out to look scummy for something scummy you just did, is scummy. Just sayin.
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Post Post #279 (ISO) » Tue Oct 05, 2010 7:13 am

Post by Sotty7 »

singersigner Post 278 wrote:Because I had only put a vote on him for pressure.

Pressure? I call BS on that.
singersigner Post 223 wrote:
DemonHybrid wrote:
He's replacing out. Is there any reason for you to say this?
She's new and was rather embarrassed about replacing out. I know her IRL (she goes to the same college as I do).
Then you can be the one to console her IRL, not make excuses for her here. People replace out all the time. It's not your job to make excuses. To me, it sounds like you're just trying to protect someone. I really don't like this. You're not sitting well with me at all anymore. Thor's responses to my questions have been acceptable, but you're still making excuses for someone who's not even here anymore.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: DemonHybrid
Looks like you tried to build an extremely weak case on him, this does not feel like a pressure vote at all. I want you to explain why you left the leading wagon of the time (Thor who had two votes), for this vote that put DH at two? It makes no sense to me and on top of that the way you push on him doesn't add up to just “pressure” I think you are using that now to back away because you are getting heat.

While you're at it, please explain what about Thor's responses were acceptable.
singersigner Post 278 wrote:I'm getting some tests done in the hospital so I definitely won't be able to post til much later today if not tomorrow. and I definitely won't have time to go back and find those questions addressed to me til then. If you'd like to get answers, I'd like to not have to sift through the thread again. Common courtesy.
Wow.

Common courtesy is to respond to peoples questions when they ask them. If you really didn't have time (which I don't believe but whatever) then acknowledge the question and say you will come back to it when you have the time. You did neither and you did it more than once. It's scummy.
singersigner Post 278 wrote:Although I think there was something about me dodging a question in there somewhere. 1. Why is it ok for Thor to do it and not me?
I believe the question Thor “dodged” was this one:
singersigner Post 196 wrote:
Thor665 wrote:
DemonHybrid wrote:Haha, did you just admit something?
Absolutely - I just admitted to being scum - go ahead and vote me and lets get a wagon started, your evidence is pure and irrefutable.
Point made.

Now.

VOTE: Thor665

What makes you so town? As far as I can tell, all you've been doing is confuse and bugger the shit out of town.
If I am right then you need to explain how a question along these lines can be answered by town in the first place. Plus I think Thor answered your question anyway.

If I am wrong point out what he has dodged.
singersigner Post 278 wrote: 2. He had asked me to present a case against him, and I said I would (still pending). He has yet to answer my question. Making someone out to look scummy for something scummy you just did, is scummy. Just sayin.
Why would you present a case against Thor when you have already claimed his responses where good enough to make you unvote?

Also wasn't it just you preaching “common courtesy” of re-quoting questions to have people answer them. Why aren't you following your own advice?
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Post Post #280 (ISO) » Tue Oct 05, 2010 8:57 am

Post by DemonHybrid »

Far_Cry, you messed up your bold tag for your vote. Wanted to let you know.
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Post Post #281 (ISO) » Tue Oct 05, 2010 9:13 am

Post by DemonHybrid »

Also know that Sotty is really tipping the scales on the town-o-meter to me with her analysis. Suspicion is off for now.
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Post Post #282 (ISO) » Tue Oct 05, 2010 9:37 am

Post by Thor665 »

@DH Sotty is town so you'll stop suspecting her (you suspected her?)
Her analysis is assault on singersinger's logic and cases.
Your original case on me was sheep of singersinger's.
I'm still number two suspect after singersinger.

Something feels odd here to me, any clarifications on this befuddling mess of reads?
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Post Post #283 (ISO) » Tue Oct 05, 2010 11:58 am

Post by DemonHybrid »

Thor665 wrote:@DH Sotty is town so you'll stop suspecting her (you suspected her?)
Her analysis is assault on singersinger's logic and cases.
Your original case on me was sheep of singersinger's.
I'm still number two suspect after singersinger.

Something feels odd here to me, any clarifications on this befuddling mess of reads?
Sotty replaced Devon's spot. I had a suspicion on Devon's spot (read my last post of reads, a bit lazy to find it, but it was immediately after singer voted me).
You forget that I had thought you were scummy long before singer posted that and voted you, and I decided to go with it because you were answering sarcastically. That whole "Are you admitting something" post was me joking around, I believe I included an emoticon with it.
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Post Post #284 (ISO) » Tue Oct 05, 2010 1:37 pm

Post by ThAdmiral »

read cont'd from page 5...

Nexus votes for absent Jack. Weak/safe play. If ever questioned he could say "I am just pressuring him to add to the conversation".

Farcry jumps on to the demonhybrid wagon literally one post after Thor votes him. Provides no real reasoning other than "A wagon needs to be started, and we need to start talking."

Demonhybrid then claims vanilla townie. Demonhybrid also continues to defend farcry, saying that he understands why Farcry voted him.

Farcry believes the claim...but does not unvote.

Farcry then omgusses Jimfinn. Here is his post:
Far_Cry wrote:I find this game pitiful. No wants to do shit, no one wants to say shit. Instead, we are resorting to voting each other for some ridiculous reasons. I have yet to find one good case against anybody, one that's reasonable and makes sense. Here, we have jimfinn, who mind you, has been actively lurking, going out and calling me scum trying to spring up activity. While it is true that I said it would be ridiculous to vote and then unvote so soon (and it would be), he failed to notice that the reason of my vote was just for the sake of actvity, and then goes around and twists the meanings of my actions.

Now I would like you to tell me who's scummier. UNVOTE: DemonHybrid, VOTE: jimfinn
Farcry: it is frustrating that you seem to not be able to objectively look at your own situation and logically look at why people are voting for you. You say yourself that this is a difficult game to get a read on people, but then attack people when, in your opinion, they have less than watertight cases against you. I can see from the number of posts in your profile that you aren't new here, so surely you understand that in any given mafia game people are going to attack you and vote for you.
In any case the arguments for voting you are fairly sound.

@ thor: could you please direct me to one of Jack's better games. I have never played with him and want to see what all the fuss is about.

Demonhybrid claims that sarcasm is a scumtell (?) in regards to Thor.
Singersigner also thinks that thor is being anti-town and confusing the town with sarcastic remarks.
Andrigan wrote:
Thor665 wrote:We might need to make a list of who isn't buddying with me in this game - why is that part of so many cases? Do I have a known meta for succumbing to buddying I should be aware of?
The buddying I am referring to is from this quote:
redtail896 wrote:@Thor, I'm not voting DH because I'm deciding between him and signer. The "case" against you is so absurd that, if I didn't know better, I would consider it RVS.
The emphasis here seemed a bit stark for me. Even though I believe Thor is town, I'm not sure the case against Thor that Redtail is referring to is totally absurd or deserving of quotes around the word. This kind of certainty would seem characteristic of a cop had it been day 2, and the cop had already received a town reading for the person. Since it is day 1 and no cop investigations have taken place, I find Redtail's dismissal suspicious (as scum trying to score town points).
I disagree. The case against Thor was indeed lacking in any substance.
singersigner wrote:
DemonHybrid wrote:
He's replacing out. Is there any reason for you to say this?
She's new and was rather embarrassed about replacing out. I know her IRL (she goes to the same college as I do).
Then you can be the one to console her IRL, not make excuses for her here. People replace out all the time. It's not your job to make excuses. To me, it sounds like you're just trying to protect someone. I really don't like this. You're not sitting well with me at all anymore. Thor's responses to my questions have been acceptable, but you're still making excuses for someone who's not even here anymore.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: DemonHybrid
This is a massive stretch. It makes perfect sense for someone to try to support a friends reputation on a site like this.
As demonhybrid later stated: "me asking everyone to not be pissed that she's replacing out HAS NOTHING TO DO with my view on what her alignment could be."



Summary and suspects:


I think farcry is very lucky to not have copped much heat today; wishy-washy in the beginning, refusal to admit to hypocrisy, then admitting to hypocrisy but asking everyone to just move on, omgus voting, the "unvote would be ridiculous" thing, and jumping on two wagons fairly shamelessly.
I am suspicious of singersigner as well (mainly for weak cases that seems nothing better than excuses to vote for people), but out of the two I would say farcry is the more likely to be scum as his wagon died while signersigner is seemingly on -1 and very close to a lynch.

vote: farcry


There is still a few days to get this lynch through but everyone has to make up their minds quickly.
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Post Post #285 (ISO) » Tue Oct 05, 2010 1:44 pm

Post by DemonHybrid »

Demonhybrid claims that sarcasm is a scumtell (?) in regards to Thor.
Don't forget: In addition to what I already thought he was scummy for. Think of it along the lines of AtE.
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Post Post #286 (ISO) » Wed Oct 06, 2010 3:18 pm

Post by Far_Cry »

DemonHybrid wrote:Far_Cry, you messed up your bold tag for your vote. Wanted to let you know.
Saw it. VOTE: singersigner

@ThAdmiral: Honestly, your case against me is quite valid. And I have no way to defend against it. My actions were wrong and scummy, simple as that. I am town, simply put at that. but there's no way to prove that without lynching me.
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Post Post #287 (ISO) » Wed Oct 06, 2010 4:09 pm

Post by Chevre »



Vote Count 7

(5) singersigner (nhammen, DemonHybrid, redtail896, Sotty7, Far_Cry)
(2) Far_Cry (jimfinn, ThAdmiral)
(1) DemonHybrid (Thor665)
(1) redtail896 (Adrigan)

(2) Not Voting (Nexus, singersigner)

With
11
players alive, it takes
6
votes to lynch!
The deadline is
October 8th
.
Replacing Andrigan.
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Post Post #288 (ISO) » Wed Oct 06, 2010 8:11 pm

Post by singersigner »

Honestly, your case against me is quite valid. And I have no way to defend against it. My actions were wrong and scummy, simple as that. I am town, simply put at that. but there's no way to prove that without lynching me.
I actually am really sick and in the hospital right now, and I'm sorry, but I don't appreciate it when people call bullshit on that. What I
can
think of right now is that I overlooked questions one time reading through the thread, and then acknowledged them after that mistake. I would quote where I did, but I don't have the time or energy to right now. Especially since no one seemed to have the time and energy to be so kind as to help me out when I asked for it.

FINAL THOUGHTS:
I pointed out Thor because I thought his sarcasm and overall rudeness was distracting and anti-town.
I felt that DemonHybrid crossed a fine line when he defended Devon in the thread. It might've been something to add in the end-game. Also not really sure why he claimed...
Nhammen looks to me to be the most towny since he's been level-headed, clear/concise, and has asked good scum-hunting questions.
Far_Cry...well, that blew up in the beginning, but I don't think that he's necessarily scum right now.
Sotty seemed keen to take things out of context, or not quote properly...one of the two.
Nexus...is a confused newb.
I can't get a read on anyone else...or don't really feel like rereading to get any reads on anyone else (being in the hospital takes a lot out of you).

Sorry, I wish I could actually invest in this game right now, but I'm a lot grumpier when I'm sick. It has nothing to do with the game. Please don't hate me. :(
I'd ask for a replacement, but I feel like you think that would just be useless at this point, and I wouldn't do that to town. I'll let that be up to the mod's discretion. Good luck guys.
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Post Post #289 (ISO) » Thu Oct 07, 2010 6:24 am

Post by Sotty7 »

Singer, if you are sick and in hospital, you should replace out. I'm not being a bitch or anything, but if you can't invest the time because you really are sick no one will think any worse if you do. Focus on what's good for your health and put energy in getting better, this is just a game.

I also want to say that I called BS on your pressure vote, not the hospital claim. Also I haven't misquoted anything as people can look back and see for themselves. If you could do one thing before you do leave the game and tell me what question Thor dodged, that would be helpful. If not, I'll deal.

I still think you are likely scum though, but seriously, get better.
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Post Post #290 (ISO) » Thu Oct 07, 2010 8:33 am

Post by Chevre »

saporovirus replaces Andrigan.
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Post Post #291 (ISO) » Thu Oct 07, 2010 9:44 am

Post by saporovirus »

Herro! I am about to go out in a bit and I have not yet had time to do a detailed reading. I understand that this might draw suspicion on me, and I'm not sure why Andrigan did not roleclaim, but I am a miller.
but I love you still

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Post Post #292 (ISO) » Thu Oct 07, 2010 9:52 am

Post by Nexus »

Why, exactly, are you roleclaiming, when there is next to no suspicion on you?
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Post Post #293 (ISO) » Thu Oct 07, 2010 11:26 am

Post by DemonHybrid »

1. Singer, feel better. If you are stressed out and sick, give mafia a rest for a while. No one's going to harp on you for replacing out.
2. I'm with Nexus on this one. I'm keeping an eye on you; miller is a VERY easy role to claim.
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Post Post #294 (ISO) » Thu Oct 07, 2010 3:37 pm

Post by redtail896 »

DemonHybrid wrote:You forget that I had thought you
[Thor]
were scummy long before singer posted that and voted you, and I decided to go with it because you were answering sarcastically. That whole "Are you admitting something" post was me joking around, I believe I included an emoticon with it.
That doesn't change the fact that you were jumping on a weak bandwagon based on a weak case with absurdly weak reasoning. Please, explain to me in full your suspicion of Thor.
saporovirus wrote:Herro! I am about to go out in a bit and I have not yet had time to do a detailed reading. I understand that this might draw suspicion on me, and I'm not sure why Andrigan did not roleclaim, but I am a miller.
I would like to hear other opinions on this. I never had a great suspicion of Andrigan (although I'm surprised he didn't find the singer case weak).
You can just call me Redtail. If I could, I'd change my name to that anyway.
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Post Post #295 (ISO) » Thu Oct 07, 2010 3:40 pm

Post by ThAdmiral »

I agree with early miller claims. It's what I do.
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Post Post #296 (ISO) » Thu Oct 07, 2010 4:03 pm

Post by nhammen »

Well, deadline is tomorrow. I will not have time to read up on the last page today, so I hope I get on before the deadline hits. Also, we should decide if we are lynching singer or not, and if not, we need to request a deadline extension.
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Post Post #297 (ISO) » Thu Oct 07, 2010 4:14 pm

Post by Thor665 »

I agree with ThAdmiral - pretty much first thing a miller should do when they post is declare. Can't think of an advantage for scum saporovirus to do so at this point in that way. (not sure why DH thinks miller is a smart role to fakeclaim either, millers tend to end up dead prior to lylo)

@ThAdmiral - here's the first game I ever played with Jack. I was too newbie to recognize fully how awesome his play was, and still I was a gushing fanboy to him by the end. (don't much see the point of this question - couldn't you just access his wiki?)

Why is it that by the time people are voting up the Far_Cry wagon I've got a different top suspect? My mafia timing must be way off.

Unvote: DemonHybrid


Barring a really amazing set of coincidences and changing opinions that wagon's just not going to happen for me today. I'll need to go back and look at both of the cases again and see where I'm feeling. Both singersinger and Far_Cry have been pretty scummy but I seem to recall getting a lot of newbie vibes off both of them and I think I was knocking them both down my suspect list because of that. Honestly I've also got to read back just to remind myself of my own case on FC - I can at least remember singersinger's there for insanity which is not an unreasonable Day 1 lynch reason.

@nhamman - are you against the singersinger lynch?
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Post Post #298 (ISO) » Thu Oct 07, 2010 4:19 pm

Post by Chevre »

More specific information on that deadline: if a lynch has not been reached, the game will be sent to night at Midnight tomorrow. For different time-zones, that is approximately 25 hours and 30 minutes away.
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'Cause what is now wasn't there before and should not be
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Far_Cry
Far_Cry
Goon
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Far_Cry
Goon
Goon
Posts: 629
Joined: June 15, 2009
Location: Phoenix, Arizona

Post Post #299 (ISO) » Thu Oct 07, 2010 5:12 pm

Post by Far_Cry »

saporovirus wrote:Herro! I am about to go out in a bit and I have not yet had time to do a detailed reading. I understand that this might draw suspicion on me, and I'm not sure why Andrigan did not roleclaim, but I am a miller.
Interesting. And what's the point of this claim?
Thor665 wrote:I agree with ThAdmiral - pretty much first thing a miller should do when they post is declare. Can't think of an advantage for scum saporovirus to do so at this point in that way. (not sure why DH thinks miller is a smart role to fakeclaim either, millers tend to end up dead prior to lylo)

@ThAdmiral - here's the first game I ever played with Jack. I was too newbie to recognize fully how awesome his play was, and still I was a gushing fanboy to him by the end. (don't much see the point of this question - couldn't you just access his wiki?)

Why is it that by the time people are voting up the Far_Cry wagon I've got a different top suspect? My mafia timing must be way off.

Unvote: DemonHybrid


Barring a really amazing set of coincidences and changing opinions that wagon's just not going to happen for me today. I'll need to go back and look at both of the cases again and see where I'm feeling. Both singersinger and Far_Cry have been pretty scummy but I seem to recall getting a lot of newbie vibes off both of them and I think I was knocking them both down my suspect list because of that. Honestly I've also got to read back just to remind myself of my own case on FC - I can at least remember singersinger's there for insanity which is not an unreasonable Day 1 lynch reason.

@nhamman - are you against the singersinger lynch?
I played like bullshit in the beginning because it was the first mafia game I had played in several months, so I was raw. This is not exactly something to come to my defense, but I'm saying that's why you're getting the newbie vibe on me (because I have been sucking.)
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