/Invitational 11: Pick your Poison 5 (Game Over)

[Patrick]

Votecount

HackerHuck (4) -- PokerFace, iamausername, Seraphim, AdumbroDeus
AdumbroDeus (3) -- Kmd4390, Plumegranate, SpyreX
ooba (1) -- Fate

Not voting: mith, ooba, HackerHuck, Ellibereth
12 alive, 7 to lynch.

[Kmd4390]

NO FATE. ADUMBRO FIRST THEN OOBA.

[mith]

AdumbroDeus' "I was trying to look like a power role" claim is... weird. Not that the strategy itself is bad or scummy, but he quoted two posts as attempts at looking like a power role, and neither of them really look like he was giving much of an effort at it if that's what he was really doing. (The first is just quoting and reiterating what others had already said, the second... doesn't look like something that would come from a power role.) On the other hand, it would be an odd thing for scum to claim (unless he was searching for a better explanation for the Kmd comment, I guess). Meh.

Fate: At the moment, I would rather lynch you than ooba.

VOTE: Ellibereth

[Fate]

Mith you make me sad.

Real sad.

Ellie is TOWNAAAAAAAAAa

[Fate]

NO FATE. ADUMBRO FIRST THEN OOBA.

But I will oblige conf-town

VOTE: Adumbro

[SpyreX]

Fate: At the moment, I would rather lynch you than ooba.

Que?

I'd still prefer a HH especially since I can't wrap my head around the real mustache twirling motive for Adumbro's madness buttt

[AdumbroDeus]

AdumbroDeus' "I was trying to look like a power role" claim is... weird. Not that the strategy itself is bad or scummy, but he quoted two posts as attempts at looking like a power role, and neither of them really look like he was giving much of an effort at it if that's what he was really doing. (The first is just quoting and reiterating what others had already said, the second... doesn't look like something that would come from a power role.) On the other hand, it would be an odd thing for scum to claim (unless he was searching for a better explanation for the Kmd comment, I guess). Meh.

Fate: At the moment, I would rather lynch you than ooba.

VOTE: Ellibereth

Look at context though, I brought it up well after the fact, sort of an attempt to really reach to protect PRs from being outed.


Second one I was looking to create the impression that maybe I'd be the one CCing if another PR claim popped up.

[Kmd4390]

Adumbro was clearly going to fakeclaim a power role as scum, but didn't because it would be certain death (counterclaim etc), so this was the best he could come up with.

[HackerHuck]

Adumbro was clearly going to fakeclaim a power role as scum, but didn't because it would be certain death (counterclaim etc), so this was the best he could come up with.

Kind of like DGB did? Oh wait, that was successful in outing the second tracker.

[AdumbroDeus]

Adumbro was clearly going to fakeclaim a power role as scum, but didn't because it would be certain death (counterclaim etc), so this was the best he could come up with.

So you admit the pattern there that suggested I was trying to cultivate the impression that I was a PR, so now make the assumption that I knew what I'm being a VI, why continue this pattern of after the death of rhinox unless I was trying to specifically out a PR? If I was trying to out a PR with my death, why back off and instead claim that I was trying to get NK'd?


Scum at the very least would try to salvage the situation by outing a PR. It's not like this claim is likely to stop me from getting mislynched if not today, then next game day probably, so why would I take this route?

It makes no logical sense for me to play the way I did and ultimately back off here if I was actually planning to fakeclaim a PR.

[Kmd4390]

No, no, no.

My theory is that you were going to claim a power role, but realized that doing so would mean a lynch, so you decided not to do it SO YOU COULD STAY ALIVE.

A DUMB BRO IS OBVSCUMOBVSCUMDIEDIEDIE.

LYNCH PLZ.

[AdumbroDeus]

No, no, no.

My theory is that you were going to claim a power role, but realized that doing so would mean a lynch, so you decided not to do it SO YOU COULD STAY ALIVE.

A DUMB BRO IS OBVSCUMOBVSCUMDIEDIEDIE.

LYNCH PLZ.

Which again doesn't answer the very obvious question of why I didn't just take the path of letting myself get lynched to out a PR?

[Kmd4390]

Because you are a self-proclaimed VI and VIs are more concerned with their own survival than their team's bigger picture.

[AdumbroDeus]

But if I'm scum, I'm not a VI, I just got picked out as scum and chose an outlandish defense.


Regardless, VI is relative to the game, I've shown more then competent play on numerous occasions, this game just went totally over my head. That fact doesn't mean I'd disregard basic principals like playing to win and that no individual is greater then the faction.

Meta me, look at my scum performance in Square-Enix mafia and my smashboards games if you wanna contrast my current play, I'm not the VI cause I'm dumb, I'm a VI I'm not strong enough for this crowd.

[mith]

AdumbroDeus: It's certainly possible you were laying groundwork for a power role claim, but changed tactics after DGB's claim outed Rhinox, or after discussing it with your scumbuddies when the bandwagon on you formed, or, as Kmd suggests, after you realized that fakeclaiming power role would be suicide.

That said, I'm not all that persuaded by Kmd's theory; I'm far more inclined to think it wasn't an attempt to look like a power role at all, and you retconned it when asked for a claim/after I brought up the scumminess of your Kmd suspicions. For example:

"Look at context though, I brought it up well after the fact" - I might be persuaded by this if it were true. That post was 1414, iamausername's post was 1396, and I QFT'd it myself in 1410. You want me to believe that you wanted to look like a power role by bringing up power role safety "well after the fact", and carried this out by waiting a whole four posts?

[AdumbroDeus]

Frankly, the discussion seemed closed even when you posted it, leading me to suspect you were setting up some breadcrumbs yourself, though i didn't notice anything else to support it, so i dismissed it.

[mith]

...the discussion seemed closed, after SpyreX asked about the kills in 1404 and Fate speculated on the kills in 1406?

[mith]

UNVOTE: Ellibereth
VOTE: AdumbroDeus

[Fate]

Is it bad play if I just assume mith is town and nom him for a scummy if he's scum?

>_>

[AdumbroDeus]

...the discussion seemed closed, after SpyreX asked about the kills in 1404 and Fate speculated on the kills in 1406?

*rereads*


Obviously I'm just going insane, I must have made an epic misread to post it then.


God my play was so bad this game *takes dunce hat and sits in the corner*

[PokerFace]

Confirmed*
KMD

Town*
Mith
Sera
IAM

Likly Town*
Fruits
Fate
Elli
SpyreX

Likly Scum*
Huck
ooba
AdumbroDeus

Ok upon looking back DGB kinda spontaneously attacked the fruit sisters and a few others. don't think there is anything really telling in her going after them like that. Given the rest of their play and the end of yesterday i am leaning more toward ooba being the one with a conection to DGB given her voting him over self perserving herself and going after plum. He attack on plum stopped right after the claim. All she ever wanted was PR's gone perhaps regardless my suspicion of the fruits is down with this in mind.

Vas did a few random things during the ooba wagons that make me question his alignment. things don't entirly seem to contain the direction of an informed individual with a task of eliminating town. Still I see a few connections to him and my other suspects so he remains pretty low.

Spyre and Elli are pretty much same spot as before. Their shifting is mainly a result of the shifting of others.

I see some connection between ooba and AB and some connection between him and DGB given what KMD pointed out. Pending AB's flip his position may change

What I don't like about AB are as follows. Troll pointed out early on that what he considered best janitor play was to invalidate day 1 by using their skill then. I don't recall Hoopla's gambit containing an element of trying to look like a PR so something that may have aided her sucess could be troll's advise being scum driven.

AB earlier said this about Vas

I really don't like Vas' play, I especially don't like his excuse for not scumhunting, I have yet to see him make a legitimately useful post in the game. Add to that his defense strikes me as a bit... pathetic, especially early on. Concision is nice, but he barely seems to address the actual points.

after he vote Vas

@Vas

: Could you provide the latecomer with a clear and concise case for why you're not scum and Sereph is?

Hello-not-reading-the-thread. Other people have explained it far better than I did and this question has been getting old. Basically: Seraphim has been pushing the argument that I've been coached to play like a VI to not get vigged. I mean, read below:

My counter-argument: I think that the scum team either figured that VV would be less likely of a vig target if he acted like he did now, playing up the VI aspect of his play and trying to convince people of that aspect, or that VV was expendable.

This is stupid because its stupid.

I was looking for you to try to convince me rather then a regurgitation of one of his possible ideas to explain your obvious-scum behavior.


You haven't.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: SpyreX

Still waiting SpyreX.

I've got a null tell on Zoraster atm and that wagon gained momentium WAY too fast for my liking.

he unvotes while still not being satisified

Shock and awe VV thinks someone who think's he's scum is scum. WHAT A SURPRISE.

This is why SpyreX is scum.

Errr, care to explain?

As far as zoraster, I'd be down for his lynch, skimming in general is anti-town, and from a normally analytical player...

However I'd much prefer VV dying toDay. Since deadline is pretty soon I'll check back late tonight and vote Zoraster if necessary.

VOTE: VasudeVa


Mith is definitely not the lynch today, he's leaning town IMO, but I need a reread.

AdumbroDeus, Kmd: VV doesn't have the votes to be lynched by deadline, but DGB may. Thoughts on DGB?

Note: I don't think anyone should be switching from the zoraster wagon unless they are definitely going to be on again before deadline. There are currently enough of us available to switch to zoraster to avoid no lynch, but someone switching to DGB and then not being around to switch back might leave us in no-lynch land, if DGB doesn't have the votes.

If necessary I'll switch my vote to zoraster to secure a lynch, but I think VV is obviousscum, TBH I'm wondering why the heck he's still alive.


DGB is probably town imo.

VV is almost definitely scum, I don't buy the "too dumb to be scum" defense at all.

And AB is using the VI defence. Yay something definatly looks scummy there as there is a comparision between those 2 antics. I also don't see how AB's comments look anything like crumbs I fail to see how he thought he'd draw a kill with just that. Yay I think I'm down for his lynch.

Anyone see reason for me to wait on this? otherwise let's get the show on the road

VOTE: AdumbroDeus

I'd also like a prod on those players that are now over the 48 hour mark. They should be given a chance to say something before the hammer.

and after they do, anyone who's on board with AdumbroDeus being scum from the non-voters can drop the hammer.

[SpyreX]

I, grimlock, would like to see this hammer.

This new savant approach to this is the twirling. Fair enough.

[HackerHuck]

Because you are a self-proclaimed VI and VIs are more concerned with their own survival than their team's bigger picture.

This doesn't take into account the fact that the scum can daytalk.

I think there had to be at least one scum on the plumegranate wagon since they wouldn't all be voting for DGB, but I'm leaning more toward PokerFace than Adumbro. Assuming that we have a little more time to let the prods go through, I'll try and compare those two tonight.

[Kmd4390]

But if I'm scum, I'm not a VI, I just got picked out as scum and chose an outlandish defense.


Regardless, VI is relative to the game, I've shown more then competent play on numerous occasions, this game just went totally over my head. That fact doesn't mean I'd disregard basic principals like playing to win and that no individual is greater then the faction.

Meta me, look at my scum performance in Square-Enix mafia and my smashboards games if you wanna contrast my current play, I'm not the VI cause I'm dumb, I'm a VI I'm not strong enough for this crowd.

Any VI defense is no longer acceptable. Thanks.

Is it bad play if I just assume mith is town and nom him for a scummy if he's scum?

>_>

Yes.

This doesn't take into account the fact that the scum can daytalk.

Meh, I was mostly playing devil's advocate to get him to back off the VI thing and explain to us that he is competent, but I could see him thinking survival first unless a buddy specifically told him how to play.

[Patrick]

Votecount

HackerHuck (3) -- iamausername, Seraphim, AdumbroDeus
AdumbroDeus (6) -- Kmd4390, Plumegranate, SpyreX, Fate, mith, PokerFace

Not voting: ooba, HackerHuck, Ellibereth
12 alive, 7 to lynch.

I have reduced access due to laptop breaking, so apologies for any slowness. Checking now on prods.