Mini 1069 - Hospital Madness Mafia (Game Over!)

[Tasky]

hi everybody. have a good game

VOTE: Wingless for being the first replacement in this game.

PS: first (non-mod) post

[Tasky]

Vote: Tasky.

OMGUS!!!
lynch this scumbag!

[Tasky]

UNVOTE: VOTE: CooLDoG
scum.

[Tasky]

OHOHOH. I'm in this game. but actually I haven't got much time. therefore, I am going to lurk a bit at the beginning. no, I'm not scum.
I am not going to hammer five pages in, and I hope you too don't do that.
other than that, have fun.

PS: don't worry, sometimes later in the game, when I feel like it and when the game get's

really

interesting, then

maybe

I will get back onto it.
PPS: CooLDoG is still scum.

[Tasky]

Town:
Enigma
Exe
Tasky

why do you think I am town?

[Tasky]

@Tasky, reason for your vote on me?

let's see if you get it.
it has to do with you being scum.

[Tasky]

@ Tasky, you actually gave reasons for your vote, something very few people have done.

I did? Huh... must have missed it.

[Tasky]

I am voting Tasky for wagon jumping (and the timing of the vote), his laziness to explain reading, his attitude seems like a really bad attempt at being genuinely defensive, and the fact that he tries to draw a link to me and NS, despite the fact that it's not even the fact that what NS did was not close to buddying; it's a really cheap tactic to draw up reasoning to try and call me scum later on.

wtf are you talking about?

PS: chesskid is town. we are NOT lynching him
PPS: CooLDoG is still scum.

[Tasky]

Tasky-please explain why cooldog is scum or at least post your thoughts on the game.

Unvote
Vote: Tasky

yeeeee, chainsaw defense!
no, I won't reveal my reasons, I won't even reveal if I have reason.
I could be doing this for fun only. or maybe not.

but CooLDoG is scum in any case.

[Tasky]

@tasky, I could go on a long discussion about how the chain saw def isn't real, or about how it only works in specific cases. However, I won't because I think its a given that not posting reasons is anti-town. A person asking you why you voted for me is perfectly legitimate until you tell us why I am scum. I have yet to completely shun the idea that you are an insane day cop... But, I really do want to know why you are voting me. So let me get this straight your voting me just for fun, but I'm still scum? Is that correct?

yes, you are scum. (lol, why am I telling you this, YOU should already know that.

So you want to play Anti-town, along with NS? Very well.

I don't have enough time to read the thread thoroughly. but I get the feeling CooLDoG is scum.
and not voting at all would just spoil the fun of the game.
therefore I vote him.
if that's anti-town, then yes, I'm anti-town.

[Tasky]

I'm really afraid of voting incorrectly. Is there anyone we specifically want to lynch?

yes, CooLDoG.

[Tasky]

I have read only 1 page, but CoolDog is very very suscpicous to me. He changed his mind in 6 minutes.

He wanted me to answer why I voted chesskid, and 6 minutes later he votes that player? What? 6 minutes isn't enough to read chesskids' ISO! You are very suscpicious to me.

Unvote
Vote: CoolDog

Did anyone realize I made this post?

You should have.
I'll be rereading soon.

I realized. but I already knew CooLDoG is scum.
glad someone else feels the same way.

[Tasky]

Tasky, here's the problem; you don't want to reveal your reasons for voting, and yet you say you only have a feeling.

and where exactly is the problem?

[Tasky]

Tasky-I doubt youll answer any of this but, why do you get the feeling that cooldog is scum? If it is just a feeling, why are you so certain? Why do you refuse to give any reasoning?

More people need to vote for tasky. He's a lot more scummy than chesskid and cooldog, and even if you don't think he is scummy he is very anti town.

I'm just to lazy to read the thread thoroughly. I have just a feeling on CooLDoG, but it is a strong feeling. I feel he is scummy. if you agree with me, you vote him. otherwise you don't. don't see the problem there. It's just that personally I think the best place for my vote is him. Nobody can tell what I should or shouldn't do.

I like playing like this at the beginning of games (usually [beginning]=[day 1 + half day 2]), if you don't like it, it's your problem, not mine.

[Tasky]

Nobody

can tell what I should or shouldn't do.

I'll bear that in mind, thanks!

lol.

[Tasky]

UNVOTE:
I think his role is even better than a vig, since if he targets town, there is a small chance that the kill won't work while also stopping the mafia kill.

[Tasky]

VOTE: TheLonging

[Tasky]

Tasky, why vote TL? I don't find TL scummy at all.

for fun.

[Tasky]

yeee. we need bigger bandwagons:

UNVOTE: VOTE: Nobody Special

[Tasky]

@tasky, I hate your play, would you mind giving us some reasons...

well.

I really cannot get reads in the first day. Additionally a lot of people posts a lot of nonsense over non-existing reads and in the end day one ends up in a random lynch anyway. Usually the Content/Spam ratio at the beginning of games (and usually all day 1) is extremely low, so I really am not going to read every post.
I like it to slowly tune in on the game, posting more and more, and more and more content, while forgetting and ignoring less and less. The time this process takes is usually dependent on the game, the players, the flips, etc. but I couldn't really tell in which way.
That way I can more or less ignore the whole useless stuff.
There are games where I feel like being active from the very beginning, there was one game where I really couldn't get into the game for the whole game.

Additionally it gives me reads in the long run. Since I know that I am town, if player X attacks me, I can judge X's attack in a much more efficient way than if X had attacked someone who's alignment I don't know.

Last but not least, it makes the game funnier for me.

I understand that it may piss some of you off a little, I really do. But nonetheless, I feel this kind of playstyle is the best for me, and trust me, in the end it will turn out to be pro-town at least as much as the whole day-one spam.

[Tasky]

UNVOTE:

[Tasky]

I don't think lynching a claimed PR is a good idea right now.
Also, don't forget that even if a scum is faking to be a PR, he has to provide us with results. all those results are always very valuable information in one way or another.
therefore I think it is extremely hard to keep a fakeclaim up for the whole day
therefore even if a PR is fakeclaiming, delaying his kill is very valuable for us since we can make a better decision on who to kill, since mislynching a PR on day one is pretty disastrous for us.
additionally, delaying the lynch get's us much more information:
if we lynch scum now (unless we lynch CooLDoG), scum will get rid of the other informative role and we will have no information at all from both the roles. If however we lynch the same scum (with a higher hitting percentage) later, we will have gotten some nights worth of results, and if the mafia kills one PR, we will have an even easier task at spotting the lying scum.
and, don't forget, that there is the option that there is no fakeclaiming scum. I think we should absolutely not underestimate this possibility. Just because it is unlikely that three claims turn out to be three PR's, it doesn't mean it is impossible.

[Tasky]

Yeah, Tasky, the problem is that another wagon is not going to help. There is no alternative to your proposed scenario.

If we wagon someone else, and they are town PR - we will not lynch them, most likely.
If we wagon someone else, and they are town vanilla - you're saying we should lynch them instead. This both reduces the chances of scum hitting a vanilla (and increases chances of hitting a PR) with their kill, as well as pretty much guarantees a townie lynch.
If we wagon someone else, and they are scum - they will claim town PR, and we will be in the same situation as the first one.

See how wagoning another person isn't going to help? When you've gotten as many claims as we have, it's the best idea to lynch the one that is most scummy. Which one do you think that is?

yeah. I guess you are right.

I might as well hammer, since Moospiker is away and won't give us much info anyway. So, if somone has to say something, speak now, since I am going to hammer in my next post (tomorrow, probably).

What do you think the chances are of their being 2 town trackers?

isn't NS a watcher?

[Tasky]

Charnel, keep posting.

[Tasky]

UNVOTE: VOTE: Uprising

[Tasky]

@taskey, since you like 2 word posts do you agree with Charnel's case on Up, and is that the reason you are voting for?

1. I am called Tasky.
2. Well, the case is quite weak. I am voting Up for fun (50%), for the case (25%) and because I don't know where else to put my vote (25%), see below for NS.

I don't think we should lynch NS:
Charnel's role is more likely to be a scum-role than NS. I know that Scum Trackers are far more common than Scum Watchers. On the other side I like the content Charnel is posting and therefore I put him back at null. Since to me right now Charnel and NS are equally scummy and they are both rather strong power roles I'd prefer to lynch none of them. Additionally, if NS were scum, they couldn't use the second ability (the one which is the good for scum, after all, what good does a watcher to a scumbag?) since they have to report us their results tomorrow and I think we could catch them if they fakeclaim a result, simply because there seem to be so many town-power roles (and if there are not many power roles, we should avoid to lynch such a strong power role anyway.)

[Tasky]

Additionally, if NS were scum, they couldn't use the second ability (the one which is the good for scum, after all, what good does a watcher to a scumbag?) since they have to report us their results tomorrow and I think we could catch them if they fakeclaim a result, simply because there seem to be so many town-power roles (and if there are not many power roles, we should avoid to lynch such a strong power role anyway.)

It would be smarter (even if they were pro-town) for NS to claim that he used the ability but to NOT claim results. In the event that he is town, why the hell would we have him claim his results, thereby revealing all of the power roles to the scum? That'd be stupid. So regardless of alignment, NS will most likely use the second ability and refuse to give the information, and therefore there won't really be any way to catch him if he is scum.

you are not getting what I am saying.
That's exactly the point, the second ability is the one which is good for scum, therefore if he is town, he shouldn't use it. what I meant is, that if he lies and says he used the first one, while he actually used the second one, we will likely catch him, since he will get the chosen target wrong.
therefore he will have no choice as to use the first power, which doesn't help much.
the whole point of the argument was saying, that keeping him alive is good for us, since the information he can gather are very valuable to town and quite worthless to scum.

[Tasky]

In fact, if NS really is scum, he'll be able to use his 2nd ability, and even if we catch him in a lie afterward, the scum will have hugely valuable information. I don't want to see that happen.
Vote definitely stays.

yeah, but don't forget the converse of your agument: if NS is really town, we will lose a very valuable power role.

[Tasky]

I think I can agree with a TL lynch.
UNVOTE: VOTE: TheLonging

[Tasky]

yeah. -1 scumbag.
lynch lynch lynch

[Tasky]

lynch,lynch,lynch. We found a scumbag. What are we waiting for?

[Tasky]

You got tasky, who's sole strategy has been till now to get reads by voting without reasoning. It is a good thing, but he shows he doesn't understand that the game is more, and he seems not to get real reads from it.

I am slower than you guys. it takes me a while to get reads.
I might be wrong a lot, but who isn't?
I am aware of the fact that my play may seem erratic and maybe it is. But I do believe TL is scum and I want him lynched. I do not force you to believe it, I am not going to get angry if you do not share my read, but I know where my read stands.
If you think there is scum on the TL wagon, go on, find it. I think the TL wagon is a good wagon, so if I were to look for scum on the wagon I would look for bussing scum. But what's the point looking for bussing scum if TL hasn't even flipped yet?
Actually I think you should hammer. This day lasted way to long already and there is really not happening anything new. What we really need at this point is a flip.

[Tasky]

@ninja: chesskid, why do you think I am town?

[Tasky]

The most surprising thing is that TheLonging is still on L-1 while there have been sufficient arguments that he shouldn't be.

the fact that TL is still at L-1 makes me actually even more sure that he is scum. I really think scum would have hammered by now otherwise.

[Tasky]

FoS: chesskid3

[Tasky]

back to serious business
VOTE: chesskid3


CooLDoG, I assume you killed NS. Can you explain your reasoning? Wouldn't it have been much better to let him live trough the night so that he could tell us his results and then eventually lynch him today?

[Tasky]

I have used the flavour cop part of my role.

Why would you use that part of your role? You are aware, right, that that part is clearly favorable for scum?

FoS: Charnel

[Tasky]

Charnel, I guess you are right.
Since you have no incriminating result, you should claim who you targeted, so we will know that that person is more likely to be town. I agree that you should not claim the actual role as that helps scum. But I think not revealing anything doesn't help us. Maybe you can even confirm someone as town (without having to tell us their role).

Un-FoS

[Tasky]

chesskid, you claim in this post, that there is a large amount of info to get. I want to see that info.

[Tasky]

So instead of asking for it like a normal person, you vote me?

yep.

[Tasky]

Tasky is a VI

You really think so? Well, think again. I am going to catch scum whether you like it or not.

[Tasky]

Tasky is not a VI.

what makes you think I am not?

Vote: Tasky

I want to see if he's going to stop randomly voting today, like he said.

And what exactly is the reason for your vote?

Tasky has been fingered for fail logic. Did you even think after reading Charnel's claimed role?

look. You will agree with me that a flavor-rolecop is usually more useful to scum than to town? Well, that was my concern there. And to be honest the fact that the alternative (the tracker-role) is a quite likely scum-role doesn't make me feel any better about Charnel right now. I do not believe that we should lynch him today, I just don't think we should trust him blindly just because he is a PR. And we should keep in mind that NS died town which makes Charnel scum much more likely right now.

I don't like how he is saying NS was "obv town", because I really couldn't judge that from his stupid behavior.

[...]

[...] doesn't look impressive, nor does all the people voting on the NS wagon in particular Tasky and Exe.

Ellipses mine. What exactly do you find wrong about being on the NS wagon? Didn't you just say yourself that NS had a far from townish behaviour?

TL remained unnoticed by me until I realized how scummy he was after I read Chesskids case on him, Isn't that what it's supposed to do? And how is completely ignoring a case against you not scummy?

Where/why do you think did chesskid's case fail?


time for some vote-count analysis

[6] chesskid3 -

TheLonging

, Moospiker,

Nobody Special

,

Wingless

, CooLDoG, Zang

CooLDoG could be a SK for all we know, but I really doubt he is scum after he killed NS last night.
Therefore there are two cases:
If chesskid is town, at least one of Zang and Moospiker (Charnel) has to be scum, possibly both, since I do not believe that a) we could have gotten a wagon on a townie without scum on it and b) that scum wouldn't have hammered considering there was no scum on the wagon already
If chesskid is scum, I still do not believe that scum would have been completely off the wagon, as usually at least one scum is always bussing (considering that chesskid's play was far from being pro-town), probably one (but likely not both) one out of Charnel and Zang scum in that case.

In both cases at least one of {Zang, Charnel} is scum and there is a good possibility that both are.
Doing the same analysis on the Moospiker wagon, we get that at least one of {Uprising, Exe} is scum and maybe both are if Charnel is town.
Additionally I do not believe Uprising would start a wagon on a fellow scumbag (this comes from my feeling of playingstyle). Therefore, I believe that if Charnel is scum, then Exe is his most likely buddy.

So we get following implications (yes, I know, what I am doing are only heuristics, but I believe they are quite good):
Zang town -> Charnel scum -> Exe scum & Uprising town
Charnel town -> Zang scum
Exe town -> Uprising scum & Zang scum -> Charnel town
Uprising town -> Exe scum

[Tasky]

oh. and I really should be doing this right now.

UNVOTE: chesskid

And since Exe is the most likely town out of Zang, Charnel, Exe, Uprising, I'd conclude that Uprising and Zang are scum.

VOTE: Zang

[Tasky]

Uprising town -> Exe scum

I'm pretty sure Exe isn't scum.

you must be scum then. simple, no?

if you want to argue that the result of my deduction is wrong, you can't simply state that the result of my deduction is wrong. You have to show where the error lies in my logical steps.

Tasky is scum as well based on post 791.

lol?

[Tasky]

You lost your townread and went to a scumread in one post, btw. It was quite impressive, I've never had a read changed so fast before.

what exactly about Enigma's post made you change his mind about him (I guess it's the part you bolded, but I'd like to make sure)? And why? What about the part you bolded is scummy?

[Tasky]

Tone was not town in the slightest.

care to explain better?

[Tasky]

chesskid, you claim in this post, that there is a large amount of info to get. I want to see that info.

chesskid, don't forget to answer this, please.

[Tasky]

more Zang votes please.
His flip will tell us more than Uprising's and they are equally likely to be scum. I see no reason to vote Uprising over Zang.

[Tasky]

Enigma & chesskid: stop flaming. both of you.
What you are doing is far from productive.
chesskid, Enigma is definitely the wrong lynch for today. We have much better candidates.
Enigma, stop attacking ad personam. It will not help at all.

CooLDoG and only CooLDoG will decide whether or not to shoot tonight. If he really is a vig, at least we know that he will try to do the best thing, if he is a SK, well, he would act in his own interest regardless of what you say.
I really can't see how NS was obvtown.

because I'm rather pissed off, you get the short version analysis.

At most 1 scum on the TL wagon, since if he flipped town the wagon was going to look like shit. That narrows 2 more scum down to 5 people, 2 of whom are dead.
[7] TheLonging - chesskid3, Tasky, Zang, Uprising,

Nobody Special

, CooLDoG, Exe
[5]NotTheLonging - Enigma,Lrd,Charnel,

Wingless

,

TheLonging

Enigma for scum.

gg.

I want to see your analysis how it was (would have been) BEFORE you started accusing Enigma since when you claimed to possess that analysis, you still had Enigma as a town-read.
If it had been pointing to Enigma earlier, why did it take you so long to change votes?
If your analysis was different earlier, if it pointed towards someone else, why did you change it to make it point to Enigma? I call that confirmation bias.

[Tasky]

my analysis makes me think either Exe scum or Zang and Uprising scum.
that's at least one, but likely at least two (as I think Zang&Uprising are likelier to be scum than Exe).
and then there is you. I don't know about you yet. You could be scum for all I know.
So, no, I do not agree that there is only one scum on the wagon.

[Tasky]

I see absolutely no reason to delay this lynch any further. Zang is scum. He needs to die. Period.

[Tasky]

@CooLDoG. IMO you should kill tonight.
If Zang flips scum, kill Uprising.
Should Zang flip town, kill Charnel.

[Tasky]

I can't believe that THREE players (chesskid, Charnel, Uprising) have already offered to hammer and none of them actually has.

[Tasky]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO we lost
if my buddies hadn't killed me , I would have so won this game.