Mini 1035 - Devil's Town - GAME OVER

[LimMePls]

I already answered. that. I was ISOing everyone, I already had a solid town read on you, but I was ISOing everyone.

You had literally just said that your UT-iso meant Taz and I were his most likely partners.

And, 5 days went by because podium and I had back and forthed about all we could without your input. What exactly did you want from us?

Uh no, this was much earlier than that. podium and I produced about a page of postings within that period.

Most likely partners doesn't mean I have a scum read on you. If you don't understand the logic of that, I'm not sure how to explain it.

Yes, based on UT ISO I thought that Taz and you had the most interesting interactions with UT. Based solely on your play, I felt like you were town. The two statements are not contradictory. I don't know how to explain it better.

BY ASSOCIATION FROM HIS POSTS you and Taz were his most likely partners.

I do not think I was coasting, and I still think you are incorrectly describing my play. Dunno what else to say. At the start of the day it was pretty obvious where I stood, I don't know what you really wanted. I've been fully engaged on every issue today.

[podium123456]

Well I don't want to open that can of worms again, but it is not just a gut feeling.

Mmmm, well i still feel it is more of a personal gut thing... which is heavily influenced by your theory that LMP wouldnt bus UT, because the town turned out to have some lousy players in it.

The only thing i can recall reading is that you weren't sure if i thought UT's hammer was scummy, and that you thought i only recommended him for a lynch because you and LMP did so first. When i explained things in detail, you seemed to automatically reject any explanation/clarification and stuck with your initial assumption.

As for discounting UT, what exactly is left of LMP's play then?

Contradiction, multiple misrepresentations/lies, illogical reasoning, D2 treatment of Zodiark, etc.

For instance, he now states that i have been acting extremely scummy all game... but never mentioned

anything

about my play until endgame. That doesn't make sense... especially from someone who was intently monitoring for 'wishy washy' behavior.

...and yes, he has been stretching the facts somewhat.
I want you to understand that you are not a saint in this regard either when you give things the "TDC approved"-seal when I made a much weaker statement about them.

If you look at what was said, i dont believe i have

I said "it's a lie to say i have defended UT"... and you said "yeah, it's more accurate to say you ignored him". I later clarified "so you agree it was a lie"... and you said "*shrug*". I later said that you confirmed this was a lie/misrepresentation... because the way i read it, you did... you certainly didn't say that it wasn't.

I said "do you think our D1 interaction proved we werent partners?"... you said "no". That means it makes no logical sense for her to reach that conclusion, and this is what i said you confirmed.

I may have reworded things, but i didnt change the meaning of anything.

(remember when you said me asking about your interpretations about some of UT's posts didn't make any sense because everybody would just post the answer that would fit their case best rather than what they genuinely thought? How's this different?)

A biased personal opinion is different than completely misrepresenting someones play to benefit your argument.

[LimMePls]

Contradiction, multiple misrepresentations/lies, illogical reasoning, D2 treatment of Zodiark, etc.

**SNIP**

A biased personal opinion is different than completely misrepresenting someones play to benefit your argument.

I couldn't agree more.

[podium123456]

Contradiction, multiple misrepresentations/lies, illogical reasoning, D2 treatment of Zodiark, etc.

**SNIP**

A biased personal opinion is different than completely misrepresenting someones play to benefit your argument.

I couldn't agree more.

That's cute, but i have provided

proof

of everything i accused you of there.

We're still waiting for you to back up all these accusations you have been making about me.

[LimMePls]

1) Calling it proof doesn't make it proof.

2) I've provided back up for everything I've said. Whenever possible I've quoted the relevant sections.

[podium123456]

1) Calling it proof doesn't make it proof.

2) I've provided back up for everything I've said. Whenever possible I've quoted the relevant sections.

1. Of course you are going to deny it, no surprise there. But the proof is contained in posts such as this: Link. TDC has agreed with me on several of those points, as well.

Proof of you twisting words/arguments disingenuously: Link


2. You haven't provided a single quote to back up the claims i have asked you to back up here. The only quote you provided was to back up your observation that i was 'wishy washy'.


But... you know... dont let the facts get in your way.

[LimMePls]

@TDC: Look, obviously one of us is telling the truth and the other is twisting facts. Of course podium is going to say that its me. But that doesn't make it true. I stand strongly by my play this game. The only person who makes any sense as UT's buddy is podium. Earlier you said that based on my play and podium's play that podium looks more like UT's buddy, but that you think that based on UT's play I look more like UT's buddy. If you do feel that way, couldn't UT's play towards me have been intentional? A sort of "if I get caught, maybe I can take a townie down with me"? Doesn't the total distancing from UT and podium count as much as the buddying from UT to me?

@podium: I can back and forth with you for weeks, and at the end of the day you're going to claim that you've proved I'm twisting words and I'm going to claim the same about you. So keep posting saying it, it doesn't make it so.

[podium123456]

@podium: I can back and forth with you for weeks, and at the end of the day you're going to claim that you've proved I'm twisting words and I'm going to claim the same about you. So keep posting saying it, it doesn't make it so.

I have provided examples of ALL the things i have accused you of. Whether or not they 'prove' my accusations is debatable... but, obviously, they are meant for TDC to examine/consider... not you.

You have provided NO examples of those things that i asked you to show proof of. None. You have been shooting your mouth off these past few days saying whatever you need to, to try and convince TDC that i have acted scummy... regardless of if there is any truth to it. When i ask you to provide examples, you can't.

The more you talk, the more your true alignment is revealed.

[TDC]

Most likely partners doesn't mean I have a scum read on you. If you don't understand the logic of that, I'm not sure how to explain it.

Is there anything you can point me to that remotely hints at you having a "solid town read" on me before you iso'd me?

Doesn't the total distancing from UT and podium count as much as the buddying from UT to me?

What "total distancing"? You've said yourself that UT's iso doesn't really point towards podium and podium hasn't said much about UT.

[TDC]

podium:

Would you mind doing the same and see whether you can find anything that supports the LMP-bus thesis that I haven't so far? Rereading lynched scum is always a good idea, and I wonder a bit why you didn't bother doing that so far (both when you were still undecided between him and me, and to convince me of the bus).

[podium123456]

podium:

Would you mind doing the same and see whether you can find anything that supports the LMP-bus thesis that I haven't so far?

Re-reading D1 and half of D2, and paying close attention to LMP vs. UT, i'm struck by how fake LMP's push on UT looks.

First, we have UT agreeing (with me) that anyone that took blaze's RVS vote as serious was foolish (referring to LMP/nexus)... he also later says that "i agree that we will find scum on the blaze wagon"... knowing that his partner was on it.

But this is the UT post where LMP started his push: Link. UT states that it's really early in the game, that our argument is based off a small RVS post... and that he didn't want to make a call about either of us. He also states that he feels scum is on blaze.

LMP responds with this:

Are you gonna make a judgment about something else then perhaps? This post was incredibly wishy-washy. You wanna take a stand on anything? Post 60 was a big ball of saying nothing in as many words as possible.

Which really looks like an over-reaction to me. I feel LMP's level of UT suspicion stemming from UT's post to be un-naturally high. ...i mean heck, look at what HE said in the SAME post he condemned UT of being wishy washy:

As for my "suspicions" I don't have much new to add. I was suspicious of Blaze because I thought he was admitting to OMGUS, but then he came back and explained that he was randoming. The interaction between Dr. P and podium is interesting, I'm still watching it to see how it shakes out. Right now I'm leaning town on Zodiark.

LMP,

himself

, referred to the Podium/Dr. P discussion as "interesting" ... which is just as ambiguous as UT saying 'i dont want to make a call right now'. Then he continues with a 'wishy washy' attitude stating "i was susp. of blaze, but then he explained why he did it".

So,

A. If LMP was really that susp. of UT's 'wishy washy' language, why would he make comments that were so similar to those that UT did?

B. LMP's reaction seems to be much more than a post like UT's warranted at this point in the game.

ALSO, why would LMP refer to UT's post as "using a lot of words to say nothing" (which wasn't accurate... he did make

some

substantive statments), and completely ignore this post from Blaze... which actually WAS a lot of words that didnt say anything? At this point in the game Blaze's input was far more "not taking a stance on anything" than UT's was.

Doesn't make sense.

*continuing to read

[podium123456]

As the day goes on, UT gives some substantial input here, and later votes ABR for scum, listing several reasons, here.

A short time after, LMP says this:

I think Untrod Tripod is scum, but apparently no one else agrees or even feels the need to comment, and he seems reluctant to answer my questions, so I'm announcing my willingness to hammer ABR.

??

After all that has taken place in the game, she still considers UT her top scumpick? Based on what? Apparently that one 'wishy washy' post UT made at the beginning of the game... even though he had provided substantial input, and taken a hard stance against ABR, since then.

Again... it doesn't make sense.

UT brings up how her behavior doesnt seem to make sense here... but LMP never responds to it.

*continuing

[podium123456]

D2 starts, and UT makes this post. In it, he discusses Dr.P/TDC and states that he doesnt think Zodiarks hammer was scummy.

LMP responds with this:

It's really rough when you have a decent player replace into a slot that was acting like total scum.

On the one hand

, I want to give TDC a chance, because he's not acting anything like Dr Pepper,

but on the other hand

Dr Pepper was acting like scum and I know I should care about the slot more than the player. The best thing to do imo is analyze the surroundings of the Dr Pepper wagon and the ABR lynch.

The bolding is mine. UT is whishy-washy fence sitting again. What a shock.

Look at what he is calling wishy washy... UT's description of a player that is essentially Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde due to the replacement aspect. Isn't that the normal observation to make about that? "Dr Pepper was scummy, but TDC is acting town" -- that's essentially stating a

fact

. Yet LMP tries to pin 'wishy washy fence sitting' on UT, off of that valid observation.

That

is a prime example of LMP twisting things around to make someone look scummy.

Also, LMP ignores the fact that UT also stated he felt Zodiarks hammer wasn't necessarily scummy... which is a pretty bold statement to make, considering nearly everyone else felt the opposite at the time.

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UT makes this post, and LMP responds with:

Wow, I'm just going to have to get used to hating your posting style I guess. More wishy-washy words like "I

think

Taz jumps to the top of my scumlist" and "Taz is twitching my scumdar and I'm still iffy on TDC...". Do you ever commit to anything? And do you have a link to a recent scum game for me?

"Do you ever commit to anything"? Really? In the post LMP was referring to, UT had JUST said:

I really don't get what's so scummy about Zodiark. I didn't find his vote all that suspect and I don't think he's scum.

Does it make sense for LMP to continue to accuse UT of never committing to anything, after UT had JUST stated that he didn't think Zodiark was scum? And after the other stances he had taken?

I dont think so.

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I'm going to stop here, because i think this evidence shows that LMP's push on UT was pretty damn fake. If you want me to do the rest of the game, let me know.

[LimMePls]

Most likely partners doesn't mean I have a scum read on you. If you don't understand the logic of that, I'm not sure how to explain it.

Is there anything you can point me to that remotely hints at you having a "solid town read" on me before you iso'd me?

Doesn't the total distancing from UT and podium count as much as the buddying from UT to me?

What "total distancing"? You've said yourself that UT's iso doesn't really point towards podium and podium hasn't said much about UT.

Isn't that complete distancing? I don't know how much more distance you can put between yourself and someone than to have 0 interactions with them. And all of podium's interactions with UT are the same.

I don't recall ever using the words "solid town read", but I think my play in regards to your slot from D1 to D3 speaks pretty clearly that I have a town read of you. I never saw anything scummy from your slot. I don't give out town reads in mini games, I think it benefits scum more than town. It's like saying "Hey scum, you should kill this guy, he looks pretty town".

I'll have to deconstruct podium's complete misrepresentations and plain bullshit above later, I don't have the time for it now.

[TDC]

What would've been so bad about the only claimed vanilla townie being nightkilled?

[podium123456]

Isn't that complete distancing? I don't know how much more distance you can put between yourself and someone than to have 0 interactions with them. And all of podium's interactions with UT are the same.

While our interactions were brief, i wouldn't say there were 0 interactions. We each mentioned each other several times... and UT didn't distance himself from me.

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I don't recall ever using the words "solid town read"

I already answered. that. I was ISOing everyone, I already had a

solid town read

on you, but I was ISOing everyone.

Lol! As i said... the more you talk, the more your true alignment comes out.

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Also, you continue to ignore this:

You have provided NO examples of those things that i asked you to show proof of. None. You have been shooting your mouth off these past few days saying whatever you need to, to try and convince TDC that i have acted scummy... regardless of if there is any truth to it. When i ask you to provide examples, you can't.

...

[LimMePls]

podium:

Would you mind doing the same and see whether you can find anything that supports the LMP-bus thesis that I haven't so far?

Re-reading D1 and half of D2, and paying close attention to LMP vs. UT, i'm struck by how fake LMP's push on UT looks.

First, we have UT agreeing (with me) that anyone that took blaze's RVS vote as serious was foolish (referring to LMP/nexus)... he also later says that "i agree that we will find scum on the blaze wagon"... knowing that his partner was on it.

But this is the UT post where LMP started his push: Link. UT states that it's really early in the game, that our argument is based off a small RVS post... and that he didn't want to make a call about either of us. He also states that he feels scum is on blaze.

LMP responds with this:

Are you gonna make a judgment about something else then perhaps? This post was incredibly wishy-washy. You wanna take a stand on anything? Post 60 was a big ball of saying nothing in as many words as possible.

Which really looks like an over-reaction to me. I feel LMP's level of UT suspicion stemming from UT's post to be un-naturally high. ...i mean heck, look at what HE said in the SAME post he condemned UT of being wishy washy:

As for my "suspicions" I don't have much new to add. I was suspicious of Blaze because I thought he was admitting to OMGUS, but then he came back and explained that he was randoming. The interaction between Dr. P and podium is interesting, I'm still watching it to see how it shakes out. Right now I'm leaning town on Zodiark.

LMP,

himself

, referred to the Podium/Dr. P discussion as "interesting" ... which is just as ambiguous as UT saying 'i dont want to make a call right now'. Then he continues with a 'wishy washy' attitude stating "i was susp. of blaze, but then he explained why he did it".

So,

A. If LMP was really that susp. of UT's 'wishy washy' language, why would he make comments that were so similar to those that UT did?

B. LMP's reaction seems to be much more than a post like UT's warranted at this point in the game.

ALSO, why would LMP refer to UT's post as "using a lot of words to say nothing" (which wasn't accurate... he did make

some

substantive statments), and completely ignore this post from Blaze... which actually WAS a lot of words that didnt say anything? At this point in the game Blaze's input was far more "not taking a stance on anything" than UT's was.

Doesn't make sense.

*continuing to read

A) I don't know how anyone can accuse my play of being wishy-washy. I can stomach a lot of things, but calling me a hypocrite on this is complete crap.

B) I saw scummy play from another play, so I reacted to it. What consitutes an "overreaction"? How was I supposed to react? Look through my meta, PLEASE. The number 1 scum tell I catch people with is play just like what UT was doing here. Look at my catching of Coach Travis in Ghostbusters (in my wiki) for an example of this.

[LimMePls]

Isn't that complete distancing? I don't know how much more distance you can put between yourself and someone than to have 0 interactions with them. And all of podium's interactions with UT are the same.

While our interactions were brief, i wouldn't say there were 0 interactions. We each mentioned each other several times... and UT didn't distance himself from me.

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I don't recall ever using the words "solid town read"

I already answered. that. I was ISOing everyone, I already had a

solid town read

on you, but I was ISOing everyone.

Lol! As i said... the more you talk, the more your true alignment comes out.

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Also, you continue to ignore this:

You have provided NO examples of those things that i asked you to show proof of. None. You have been shooting your mouth off these past few days saying whatever you need to, to try and convince TDC that i have acted scummy... regardless of if there is any truth to it. When i ask you to provide examples, you can't.

...

I used the term solid town read NOW, I'm saying I don't remember saying it earlier in the game (which is what he was asking for).

Don't let the facts get in your way.

[LimMePls]

^^Give me specific things you want me to show proof of, and I will. Trying to send me through the convoluted back and forth of today to answer your question is near impossible. Show me statements you claim I haven't backed up and I'll be happy to back them up.

[LimMePls]

As the day goes on, UT gives some substantial input here, and later votes ABR for scum, listing several reasons, here.

A short time after, LMP says this:

I think Untrod Tripod is scum, but apparently no one else agrees or even feels the need to comment, and he seems reluctant to answer my questions, so I'm announcing my willingness to hammer ABR.

??

After all that has taken place in the game, she still considers UT her top scumpick? Based on what? Apparently that one 'wishy washy' post UT made at the beginning of the game... even though he had provided substantial input, and taken a hard stance against ABR, since then.

Again... it doesn't make sense.

UT brings up how her behavior doesnt seem to make sense here... but LMP never responds to it.

*continuing

Yup, UT was still my top scum pick. You know why? He was scum. And this is perfect example of how you did absolutely anything you could to avoid commenting on the UT situation. Everyone simply ignored me. As for his "substantial input" it was only in response to my prodding him on the issue, which isn't exactly townish. Trying to appease an attacker is scummy. Also, ABR was an easy target to take a stance on, and as I suspected, as soon as he could go back to wishy-washy play (D2) he did.

STOP CALLING ME HER! You've even said yourself you know I'm a he. I don't know why you keep doing it, but knock it off.

[LimMePls]

D2 starts, and UT makes this post. In it, he discusses Dr.P/TDC and states that he doesnt think Zodiarks hammer was scummy.

LMP responds with this:

It's really rough when you have a decent player replace into a slot that was acting like total scum.

On the one hand

, I want to give TDC a chance, because he's not acting anything like Dr Pepper,

but on the other hand

Dr Pepper was acting like scum and I know I should care about the slot more than the player. The best thing to do imo is analyze the surroundings of the Dr Pepper wagon and the ABR lynch.

The bolding is mine. UT is whishy-washy fence sitting again. What a shock.

Look at what he is calling wishy washy... UT's description of a player that is essentially Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde due to the replacement aspect. Isn't that the normal observation to make about that? "Dr Pepper was scummy, but TDC is acting town" -- that's essentially stating a

fact

. Yet LMP tries to pin 'wishy washy fence sitting' on UT, off of that valid observation.

That

is a prime example of LMP twisting things around to make someone look scummy.

Also, LMP ignores the fact that UT also stated he felt Zodiarks hammer wasn't necessarily scummy... which is a pretty bold statement to make, considering nearly everyone else felt the opposite at the time.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

UT makes this post, and LMP responds with:

Wow, I'm just going to have to get used to hating your posting style I guess. More wishy-washy words like "I

think

Taz jumps to the top of my scumlist" and "Taz is twitching my scumdar and I'm still iffy on TDC...". Do you ever commit to anything? And do you have a link to a recent scum game for me?

"Do you ever commit to anything"? Really? In the post LMP was referring to, UT had JUST said:

I really don't get what's so scummy about Zodiark. I didn't find his vote all that suspect and I don't think he's scum.

Does it make sense for LMP to continue to accuse UT of never committing to anything, after UT had JUST stated that he didn't think Zodiark was scum? And after the other stances he had taken?

I dont think so.

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I'm going to stop here, because i think this evidence shows that LMP's push on UT was pretty damn fake. If you want me to do the rest of the game, let me know.

HE ONLY TOOK A STAND WHEN PRESSURED TO DO SO. He never took a stand on an issue of importance until it was required. Also, it's really easy for scum to say "I don't think SO AND SO is scum" they know who the scum is. Its much harder for them to take a stance on who IS scum. And those are the instances where he was wishy-washy. His "stance" on ABR was the only solid one he took, and that was only after I pressured him hard about his wishy washy play.

I seriously can't believe I'm having to argue about this.

[LimMePls]

@TDC: Look at today's play. Who is strikes you as more desperate? Please, look at this logically, it's really quite simple.

[podium123456]

@TDC: Look at today's play. Who is strikes you as more desperate? Please, look at this logically, it's really quite simple.

Why am

I

desperate when i argue a case, but you aren't when you make a case?

And logic is on my side... i guarantee you.

[podium123456]

CONTRADICTION

Earlier today, LMP said this:

I don't give out town reads in mini games, I think it benefits scum more than town. It's like saying "Hey scum, you should kill this guy, he looks pretty town".

Yet, at the beginning of the game, he said this:

Right now I'm leaning town on Zodiark.

This is actually a pretty big contradiction...

[TDC]

And it doesn't even make sense when applied to me, because I just wasn't going to get nightkilled.