Town list:
saporovirus
: I'm going to begin by looking at your play thus far without looking at your claim. You have maintained a pretty neutral stance for the short time you have been with us. You have attacked me, more because of my bad play than for my scumminess (proven by looking at this post:
saporovirus wrote:Looking through Far_Cry's iso: most of his time is spent in defending himself. He made a bit of a case against redtail earlier, but other than that, his contributions have been "Oh I'm not scum though I look ever so scummy," and "I am suspicious of YOU for starting a wagon against me even though I look ever so scummy." This could just be bad play as he claims, but hmmm. I'm not sure I have specific comments on his relationship with singer- she doesn't want to vote for him when Thor says she should, then she votes for him when he votes for Thor because it is OMGUSy, then she unvotes after a while. That's pretty much the only evidence I see, but I could easily be missing something.
... where you note my bad play but don't consider it necessarily scummy.) Then, you go on to attack Nexus:
saporovirus wrote:I don't really know what Nexus is up to; he appeared out of the woodwork to say I DISAVOW ALL TIES TO THAT HORRIBLE SINGER WOMAN without contributing much else.
... which is a valid point. From you play thus far (not looking at your claim), I conclude that you are town. It looks like you truly are trying to find scum. We are all waiting on your jimfinn iso.
However, your miller claim is something interesting. Right off the bat, with your first post, you claim miller, which is surprising. I'm not sure what to think of it. You could really be a newbie following good advice and claiming miller. The thing that troubles me however, is how quickly ThAdmiral wrote off the claim with this post:
ThAdmiral wrote:I agree with early miller claims. It's what I do.
... and then Thor goes on to quickly agree with him. This is just a hunch, but it's quite possible that someone like ThAdmiral or Thor told sapo to claim on purpose, and then go on and say that some outside friend told him that it was a good idea. This is however somewhat a stretch, and since there are better cases to pursue, I'm going to leave it at that.
ThAdmiral
: You have acted pretty level-headed, and I've been liking your play thus far. You have made valid contributions and haven't done much to arouse suspicion. There is your defense of sapo's role claim, but as stated above, the case doesn't have much substance to pursue, so I believe you are most likely town.
Thor
: You have been all over the place this game: with votes on singer, jimfinn, DH, Nexus, and me. Honestly, the thing that makes you look town are your votes on singer:
Thor665 wrote:singersinger - questions, she doesn't notice them because she doesn't read, or she thinks she can dodge them. See quoted text below for questions I'd still like answered.
Unvote: DemonHybrid
Vote: singersinger
Hopefully you'll notice stuff now.
Thor665 wrote:@singersinger
1. I can't tell if you're crazy or obtuse. Let's go with this - I'm town because my role PM proves that this is so - show me evidence to the contrary or go away.
2. So I'm being aggressive about things (or as I call them scumtells) and I'm making people get defensive (or as I call it, making them respond so I can get scum reads on them) Congratulations, you have discovered that my playstyle is more aggressive then yours!
How is this confusing town?
How is aggressiveness more likely to be done by scum then town?
Your list of scum suspects is really fascinating;
Thor
Far_Cry
DH
You...ah...have sort of noticed that amongst all of my aggressive attempts to confuse town that I've sort of championed both of the other lynches on your list, haven't you? What's your case on each of the other two - I want to see how it's different then mine - go!
Still wouldn't mind lynching DH either.
Someone in that mix is probably scum.
singersinger's case on DH as currently presented is megaweak.
DH's case on me is still really excited about my sarcasm and "anti-town" behavior. Still hasn't explained how sarcasm = scum or how I'm being anti-town other then being sarcastic.
His other two points just show an inability to understand the strategy of what was happening around my votes - null to obtuse read on that.
More thoughts on singersinger once she cobbles together an answer to my questions.
@DH - questions or you - what is (specifically) my anti-town behavior and how does it hurt town?
Also, sarcasm as a scumtell? How does that work? <---I may or may not be being sarcastic with this question.
Thor665 wrote:saporovirus has managed to post 4 times since his reveal in order to...discuss his reveal more. Unimpressed.
Town is sort of slowly chugging in on the singersinger lynch and is doing so in sort of an odd way, not sure on read.
Looking back on singersinger and Far_Cry I find them both pretty skeevy and VI, as such I don't particularly have a preference which dies today, and plus I tend to find extensions anti-town.
@nhamman - but if you want to lynch singersinger for being most scummy why would you try to get an extension so people could lynch Far_Cry?
No whammy, no whammy...
Vote: singersinger
In my eyes, this doesn't look like scum bussing his partner. It does somehow worry me that you have voted a quite a few people, but it seems to me that your are just aggressive town who likes to jump the gun and vote people just because you have a few suspicions on them. Plus, the other thing that clears your name is the way you responded and attacked my hyprocrisy early in D1. A scum player probably would have tunneled the shit out of me, and you didn't pursue me for the rest of D1 like scum probably would have. So all in all, you are town in my eyes.
redtail
: I would really like it if you posted more. I would like to hear your thoughts on the game thus far. Obviously, you beating home my hypocrisy was somewhat unnecessary considering that Thor had already addressed the situation. However, that was some time ago, and looking at your in the later parts of D1, you seem fine to me. And this post:
redtail896 wrote:VOTE: singersigner
Reasons why:
1. Regarding the early Far Cry wagon:
singersigner wrote:I loled at this. Being a hypocrite gives someone every reason to vote for you unless you can give them a legitimate reason for why it's ok for YOU to do something, and not THEM. Which you have yet to do.
singersigner wrote:Thor, stop being dumb. I see no reason why there needs to be a wagon before everyone's contributed, unless there's been an absolute, 100% scumslip, which Far_Cry has not done IMO.
You clearly thought that Far Cry
was
being a hypocrite, yet you criticized Thor for creating and trying to promulgate a wagon on him. I don't know what kind of "absolute, 100% scumslip" you're looking for on D1.
Later you also produce this gem:
singersigner wrote:The whole hypocrisy thing...
If you're looking for a scum tell in that, you won't find one.
This is a direct contradiction to your previous point of view.
2. The scumlist thing:
singersigner wrote:No. You're just asking him to set up people for NKs and lynch targets during the day. Anyone who posts lists of "least townie to most townie," or anything likewise, will instantly be on my bad side, for doing the work of scum for them.
This borders on theory discussion, but I find it interesting that you are so quick to judge people that simply disagree with you on this tenet of mafia theory. Especially since, by my count, you are in the minority.
3. You're "case" on Thor. I've said it before and I'll say it again: this case is illegitimate hogwash. I will reprint, in full, the post in which you voted for Thor:
singersigner wrote:Thor665 wrote:DemonHybrid wrote:Haha, did you just admit something?
Absolutely - I just admitted to being scum - go ahead and vote me and lets get a wagon started, your evidence is pure and irrefutable.
Point made.
Now.
VOTE: Thor665
What makes you so town? As far as I can tell, all you've been doing is confuse and bugger the shit out of town.
I see no reasoning or proof that Thor is/was "confusing and buggering the shit out of the town." (Here it should be noted that I don't like DH's jump onto this wagon any more than your starting of it)
singersigner wrote:Whoops!
Here ya go:
Thor665 wrote:singersigner wrote:What makes you so town?
What makes me so scum?
I see you've dodged this question, and made a point of calling me out assuming I did the same. The difference is, I accidentally overlooked response in responding to other posts. You deliberately didn't answer the question.
singersigner wrote:As far as I can tell, all you've been doing is confuse and Smurf the Smurf out of town.
How have I done this? Please try to be explicit.
Look at your own ISO. Your posting style is aggressive, and instead of looking for blatantly scummy behavior, you're putting everyone on the defensive for things that may or may not be of any concern...and it's only the first day.
If I had to choose, my best bets would be Thor and Far_Cry...maybe DH, but I dunno.
In your response about Thor dodging the question,
you actually dodge the question
. In addition, your description of scummy behavior is simply a playstyle difference; you don't like Thor's playstyle, and are using it as an excuse for a vote. This case will later be abandoned without any real reasoning given other than "Thor's playstyle is scummy."
4. Your case on DH: amounts to accusing DH of making excuses and defending another player. The problem here (as pointed out by others as well) is that DH's excuses kind of make sense; those would be what I would say in the given situation. It's not really a defense of a scummy player either; it's simply DH explaining why the replacement happened. You don't really explain
why
it's scummy, just like with the Thor case.
... as with the case with Thor, doesn't look like scum bussing his partner. That post's somewhat long analysis is not something I would expect to come from scum. So overall, you play in the latter parts of D1 look townish to me, though I'm not yet coming to conclusions with you since you haven't posted at all in D2. I'm eagerly awaiting your thoughts.
nhammen
: As with redtail, you too, need to post more. You've made only 9 posts this game, and none in D2 (though I do admit your posts had plenty of meat in them, which I like.) Your intentions have masked this game, as you have attacked quite a variety of people, but have put down only one vote on singer (which BTW, that vote looked townish to me.) You have also done quite a lot of agreeing with Thor, which I don't like, but the possibility of you and Thor being partners seems remote to me at this point. I have a neutral/town read at you at this point, but I do ask you to post more.
Nexus
: There obviously has been some speculation of a relationship between you and singer, and it's not something I am throwing out the window. You seemed a little wishy-washy earlier in the game, but you did come back with some better posts. Here are some that I like:
Nexus wrote:Ok ok. If that's Jack's playstyle, why didn't he come out and say something about it when he posted today? He has to have read the thread to make the assumption that he can't get anything out of it. Why are you all jumping to Jack's defence, when he's perfectly capable of defending himself?
This quite a true statement, that questioned Jack quite fairly. We all know now that Jack is not ThAdmiral, and ThAdmiral looks town in my eyes. But nonetheless, I give town points to this because it raised quite an interesting question that no one else had raised.
Nexus wrote:Andrigan/saporovirus:
Defends the Far_Cry wagon. Asks Jack to contribute more, which is fair enough. Fair case on Redtail.
Sap: ROLECLAIMING WHUT!?!. I don't even agree with his argument for roleclaiming. It's silly. Other than that, he hasn't really done much either way.
DemonHybrid:
Three random votes in the space of two hours. Posts like..nothing for a few of his posts. Goes from saying I'm his number 1 scum read to Redtail being his number one scumread. Granted, he explains it, but...eh. The way he speaks is quite distracting, see ISO #22. Claimed at L-2, claimed an easy claim, so eh. Posts to defend Devon, after getting on Singer's back for her saying something similar about me. Gets angry that he's got a vote. Buddies with me in iso #54, pretty good turn after I was his must scummy pick for a while.
My main problem with DH is the sheer amount of fluff he posts whilst posting a little info and analysis. It's somewhat distracting. Also, don't like him trying to set up a "this is how we do it" in post #58. Not really a town thing to do, imo.
Devon/Sotty7:
"Honestly I don't care..." is not a good attitude, even if it is her first game. Only posts were to check in and explain things. Hard to come up with a read on her, though.
Sotty: Votes Far_Cry, says it's scummy but not really why. She does give excellent analysis though. Town read. Needs to post today. Actualy leaning towards town with Sotty, though.
Far_Cry:
Wanted to wait to get out of RVS. Why is he so concerned about the level of activity? OMGUS's jimfinn, and is really angry about the state of the game. This seems like frustrated town to me. He claims it's not OMGUS, but I am not convinced. "...I don't like to piggyback or buddy at this point, but..." distancing, much? (ISO #35)
Angry "WHY AREN'T YOU VOTING FOR ME!?" seems confusing. Not really sure what to make of it.
Jack/ThAdmiral:
My feelings on Jack are clear. He was lurking, then he dropped the game. Thanks.
ThAdmiral: Admirable analysis. Don't agre with early miller claim, but eh. Leaning towards town on ThAdmiral too.
Thor:
Very sarcastic, and seems a little distracting, but eh. Does seem desperate to start a wagon, and whilst I moaned about his vote hopping, I have since reconsidered, and perhaps make this to be more of a town tell, or it's excellent scum play, because who would expect scum to be stupid enough to keep going at people? Hmmm. Does get a little tunnelly on DH, but it's kinda understandable.
jimfinn:
Random vote that then required everyone to say "eh!?". Not sure if that was intentional or not. At least he explains it. Checks in to say he's here, but he doesn't really say much else. Hooray for tunnelling Far_Cry. Seems to be active lurking, and is one of the worst.
nhammen:
9 posts? Impressive. His first "analysis" was like...nothing useful. He says a lot of "agree" and "good points", which isn't really needed. and also !?!??! and other things aren't really contributing anything. Hasn't posted on Day 2 yet. As far as I can see he hasn't really done much besides agree to other people.
redtail896:
Asks for more, but he doesn't give us anything instead. *rages at incorrect usage of 'you're', but otherwise excellent case on singersigner. Yet another one who hasn't posted on Day 2.
Sorry I sort of disappeared, I had to deal with some stuff, which meant I didn't have my entire attention on MS, and fucked things up in other games. I'm more or less back, technically should be v/la from tomorrow until Sunday, but I'm gonna try and stick around.
My current scummiest are: nhammen for actually lurking and contributing very little, imo. DH for his fluff to content ratio, and jimfinn for sort of active lurking. Only definite town reads are Sotty and ThAdmiral.
This is not quite THE best analysis, but it's something and certainly better than your earlier one. I'm not exactly sure who are your top suspects (which I would like you to post.) Overall, it looks like you have a pretty standard view on this game. You haven't been quite clear with everything, and I still have to consider that you might be partners with singer. But you are not my top suspect at this moment.
jimfinn
: You actively lurk D1, then come back and jump on my wagon D2. I'm definitely not liking that. You did attack me in a reasonable manner:
jimfinn wrote:Wait, so Far_Cryscum is abandoning the DH wagon after I call him out for not unvoting in a continued attempt to look more town, and decides to take revenge by OMGUS voting the person who caused said wagon to fall apart.
Ok this is good. But after that, nothing:
jimfinn wrote:After Far_Cry, my second scum read right now is DH, but that's not a particularly solid read - claiming VT at L-2 is a move I dislike and in my opinion (due to Hohum's Theory, which I believe) is antitown at best, and could even be a scum trying to relieve some pressure and not risk an eager hammer. At the same time, the intention of the claim seems genuine, just misguided, so I'm going to leave my vote on FC
Something about this doesn't smell right. Considering that there is a possibility that you and DH are partners. Then this:
jimfinn wrote:VOTE: far_cry my vote was on you at the end of the day, and the flips only strengthen that opinion.
You haven't given us a why for this (so I will ask you now: Why does singer flipping scum make me look more scum?). Overall, outside of maybe 1 post, your play has been quite lackluster, lazy, and one-sided. You've spent most of this game attacking me, without giving much look to other possible suspects.
DemonHybrid
: Here we go, rapid-fire bad posts:
DemonHybrid wrote:Oh, you know what would be cool?
If Far_Cry is town (or scum and there are 3 scum), we lynch Nexus. Cause singer defended him every time she talked about him and blamed his play on "oh, he's new".
DemonHybrid wrote:I'ma thinkin that Far Cry is uh little bit turnin de argument onto jimfinn a little bit
He made a valid point. OMGUS argument against saporo.
Saporo feels like she's truthful about her miller claim. So, lets lynch far_cry some more plox.
DemonHybrid wrote:When I meant "he" made a valid point, I meant jimfinn. He isn't trying to speedlynch, or else he'd be tunneling the fuck out of you, FarCry.
DemonHybrid wrote:Because you aren't confirmed scum.
Weak attempt to push suspicion on me.
All of these posts are bad. Either not true, or they make no sense.
Plus, before, you seemed quite sure that I was town. Reading between when you said I was scum and when you voted for me D2, you didn't really say anything that would make me think that you changed your thoughts. Thus, your vote on me because I had an "odd interaction with singer" does not look good to me. At all.
Looking at all of this, I have to say that DH and jimfinn look scummiest to me. I'm going to
VOTE: jimfinn to put you at L-1 and see where you go. I would also like to see you claim. And
FoS DH
because I'm not liking your transition from D1 to D2 at all.
. Apologies.
