Open 258 --- Night Watch --- Game Over

[Antihero]

VOTE: ooBAZoo

I should be first, my name starts with an "A"!

[Antihero]

Please!!^^^
I hope he claims watcher, so then we know he is a VT

So, you know andrew's town?

UNVOTE: ooBAZoo
VOTE: drmyshottyizsik

[Antihero]

@shotty: Why is loc's vote "opportunistic"?

[Antihero]

@shotty: Why is loc's vote "opportunistic"?

Because that was a really easy shot for scum to slip onto a wagon with a "reason", and push a mislynch

...
Opportunism is the easiest thing for scum to accuse their wagoners of, because it usually involves vague generalities like this.

[Antihero]

exactly so know we have gotten no where, and we are right where we started, also now there is a wagon on a town person, with no reasoning, and this sucks.

I don't know why you would say this.

Also anti hero, your deffending of name is noted

Yes. And....

[Antihero]

how do you know the person you are voting for wasn't town

That's clearly not what CKD meant.

[Antihero]

policy lynching = epic fail

So, jason, how about a shotty or joystick wagon?

[Antihero]

policy lynching = epic fail

So, jason, how about a shotty or joystick wagon?

Did you really just do this sir???
God not only did you just epicly sheep, but what am I at L-1 now? or is it L-2?

Who am I sheeping? I'm just trying to get people talking about something other than policy lynches, which we should agree is a crappy option.

That said, Jason why did you vote shotty?

[Antihero]

meh, i was asking for opinions. The fact that jason didn't give any looks kind of bad. BTW, wouldn't jason be sheeping me?

New reads: shotty and CKD are town, joystick is scum

UNVOTE: shotty
VOTE: joystick

[Antihero]

policy lynching = epic fail

So, jason, how about a shotty or joystick wagon?

Did you really just do this sir???
God not only did you just epicly sheep, but what am I at L-1 now? or is it L-2?

my vote count shows only 3 votes for you, overreaction much?

How is this a scumtell?
It's easy to label someone's behavior (e.g. "overreaction") without really explicitly calling it scummy. It's just sphagetti flinging and it's quite scummy.

[Antihero]

EBWOP: epic spelling fail "spaghetti"

[Antihero]

O_o I come back from marathon weekend and there's a wagon on me for some reason.

I'll post later today.

[Antihero]

Scum do act opportunistically.

I never argued they didn't. I just said it's easy for someone to say to someone jumping on their wagon "OMG OPPORTUNISM SCUMZZZ!!!" without really saying why, which is what shotty did.

This is his reply to Joystick's post where he comments that Shotty is overreacting to the wagon on him. Joystick makes no comment about whether it is scummy or not, but antihero interprets the post as an accusation and uses this interpretation as a way to attack joystick.

No, I interpret the post as active lurking and spaghetti flinging (I even said so right in the quote).

Antihero makes a post about opportunism, saying it's something scum would accuse someone else of (referencing shotty) but doesn't admit that scum would use opportunism either.

Of course scum can be opportunistic, I just don't think you were in this case.

...places suspicion on Jason after he answered his question???

First off, the intention of the question was to get Jason to give some opinions on other people. I didn't think jason would just vote shotty w/o a reason.

I think jason and dryfit might be chasing a red herring with this andrew thing, but I would like an explanation for this:

unvote

my vote on Andrew was not serious, the fact he got to L-2 doesn't sit well with me, I'm looking at these bandwagons and why they formed,

I don't think Andrew is the day 1 lynch, even if he is scum.

He just is too easy a vote and mafia can hide in there without any worry about being FOS'd cause it's Andrew.

I'm eagerly awaiting the catchup post by CKD.

[Antihero]

...places suspicion on Jason after he answered his question???

First off, the intention of the question was to get Jason to give some opinions on other people. I didn't think jason would just vote shotty w/o a reason.

... didn't finish the thought.

Second off, why is it scummy to not like the reaction to a question, even if the question is yours?

[Antihero]

...places suspicion on Jason after he answered his question???

First off, the intention of the question was to get Jason to give some opinions on other people. I didn't think jason would just vote shotty w/o a reason.

... didn't finish the thought.

Second off, why is it scummy to not like the reaction to a question, even if the question is yours?

Because the question felt more like a "friendly" question and then your response made me feel like you set him up for a trap.

Kinda of like:

"Hey do want to try this chocolate cake or this pound cake?"

"I think I'll try the chocolate."

"WHY THE FUCK DID YOU CHOOSE THE CHOCOLATE??"

-Exaggeration I know but the point is that he did what you asked in a sense. He jumped on a bandwagon. Then you jumped on him.

This is a false analogy. Also, it's an exaggeration to say that I "jumped on Jason."

I guess that does make Jason look more like a "follower" but being Day 1 and close to the RVS, I didn't think it was absolutely necessary to give a reason right then.

OK, well that's a matter of personal opinion.

[Antihero]

Hey joystick, when you do your readthrough, I'd like you to talk about this (esp. the italicized part):

unvote

my vote on Andrew was not serious, the fact he got to L-2 doesn't sit well with me, I'm looking at these bandwagons and why they formed,

I don't think Andrew is the day 1 lynch, even if he is scum.

He just is too easy a vote and mafia can hide in there without any worry about being FOS'd cause it's Andrew.

I'm eagerly awaiting the catchup post by CKD.[/quote]

[Antihero]

Let me ask you this question: Why did you ask him to join a bandwagon?

To get him to give some opinions instead of talking about theory. I've repeated said that already. [/frustration]

[Antihero]

It may be an exaggeration but you still were suspicious of him. And how is it a false analogy? You ask him to try a bandwagon out, he chooses a bandwagon, doesn't give a reason and then find him suspicious for it. That's pretty much what the analogy entails.

You're acting like I rigidly presented him with absolute choices, and I didn't. If jason came back and said "I don't like either wagon, I'll vote this player for X reason" that would have been fine with me (provided X reason isn't scummy).

[Antihero]

Hey joystick, when you do your readthrough, I'd like you to talk about this (esp. the italicized part):

unvote

my vote on Andrew was not serious, the fact he got to L-2 doesn't sit well with me, I'm looking at these bandwagons and why they formed,

I don't think Andrew is the day 1 lynch, even if he is scum.

He just is too easy a vote and mafia can hide in there without any worry about being FOS'd cause it's Andrew.

I'm eagerly awaiting the catchup post by CKD.

what do you want me to talk about?

Andrew is almost always targeted day 1, he mostly fake claims power roles as town, lynching him day 1 is too easy for mafia to jump on his wagon cause Andrew is always scummy.

acting scummy =/= scum.

What do you mean what do I want you to talk about?

You just declared someone off limits for lynching, even going so far as to say he shouldn't be lynched even if he's scum!

Playing the VI card for andrew here = yikes

[Antihero]

I wouldn't take shotty's inactivity as that big of a shock. I did some further checking on him and he's in at least EIGHT FRICKIN GAMES currently. I think the best thing to do is ask the mod for a prod on him and move on.

@mod: can you prod shotty?

I know it may seem early for a prod but I don't want to play with someone who's not going to have time for this game!

Name I'm in 4 dumb ass, and I'm sorry.
I was on a date last night, sorry!!

Calm down on the ad hom, please.

Also, I hope it went well.

I don't need meta, he is 2 for 2 fake claiming and both times he looks scummy, his games I have seen him be scum it's much of the same

vote Andrew

Wait a second, what happened to "no lynching andrew today, even if he's scum"?

2K3 is flying under the radar, and I'm not liking that, as is CKD.

[Antihero]

Wow I'm damned if I do and damned if I don't

Yes, because there's nothing in between "We can't lynch Andrew" and putting andrew at L1 (or L2, I forgot what the votecount is).

Joystick gives complete ownership of the "use the mislynch now" argument to shotty once nameloc points out how scummy it is. Smooth.

[Antihero]

we want to do some scum hunting, here are some stuff I noticed

2003041 - his last post seems very political, like he doesn't want to make a hard choice if he had to. (he has only posted 7 times btw)
Dry-fit - 3 posts and nothing of value in any of them
jason - vote hopping but seems focused on andrew for the most part
ooBazz - low poster, comes back right when I vote for andrew again to call me out on it (even though my vote for him isn't scummy in my opinion)
Zed - first votes anti-hero for his implying me comment about overreaction is scummy but later changes and sides with anti-hero and says I am scummy, when I said over-reactions aren't scummy, just un-called for really
CKD - well he promises he is going to post but we keep waiting.

the people who are posting more I will read through their posts tomorrow sometime

This isn't IIoA, but it is a ton of more spaghetti flinging.

[Antihero]

I watched shotty last night actually, I just felt like if he was town, he would be targeted by mafia

LOL

shotty, you're cool and I like you, and I'm not trying to be mean. But Joystick, you honestly think shotty (assuming he's town) would be the prime target for a N0 mafia kill?

I only recognize 3 names in this games so basically it came down to picking one of the 3. I picked him cause we just won together as maf so his name was freshest. I didn't think mafia would target Andrew as he is typically an easy lynch in games.

Who was the third?

Also, if you are right, and you are in knowledge of JS role being 'Vinilla', why would a townie claim watcher if he was VT? I see no possible reason for VT to fake claim watcher as it could lead to others being outted as watcher and screwing the town over.

According to the sign up thread, mafia goons show up as "vanilla" to the role cop.

However, I still think you're correct that andrew is fakeclaiming.

1 Role Cop --- Investigates someone. Will get a yes if the person is a Watcher or Hider, no if the person is vanilla town or a goon

Andrew specifically mentioned "vanilla." That doesn't follow the style of results smashbro seems to be giving.

@MOD: Does the Role Cop get a specific role (e.g. Watcher, Hider, Vanilla) or does he get a yes or no?

Still not liking CKD.

[Antihero]

What exactly has andrew done? Claimed doc as VT once? I know a few people who have done that.

Is his track record w/ fakeclaiming really that bad? Depending on smashbro's answer to the question, there's no reason to not believe andrew AFAIK.

[Antihero]

BTW, scumspectrum

(Town)ooBAZZoo---nameloc1986---Dry-fit---jasonT1981---Zdenek---drmyshottyizsik---andrew94---curiouskarmadog---2003041---HopOnMyJoystick(Scum)

[Antihero]

What exactly has andrew done? Claimed doc as VT once? I know a few people who have done that.

Is his track record w/ fakeclaiming really that bad? Depending on smashbro's answer to the question, there's no reason to not believe andrew AFAIK.

This is dependent on smashbro saying "vanilla, watcher, hider," by the way. If smashbro says "yes or no" andrew is fakeclaiming.

[Antihero]

^There are 2, shotty.

*facepalm*

[Antihero]

*sigh*
The fail quotient of this game is nearing 100%.

[Antihero]

UNVOTE:

VOTE: CKD

andrew, I think I now know why some people are in favor of policy lynching.

[Antihero]

UNVOTE:

VOTE: CKD

andrew, I think I now know why some people are in favor of policy lynching.

anti and all
HE IS COMEFIRMED SCUM(HOP)

Why aren't you taking into consideration that Andrew might be lying?

um, nameloc, andrew just admitted to lying

[Antihero]

When? I totally missed that.

O WHAT , HOW DO U KNOW I JUST CAUGHT HOP THE SCUM


2nd scum right there...
im so awesome

Oh, I misinterpreted this post. I thought andrew was admitting he really didn't get any results on hop and shotty knew too much.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: hoponmyjoystick

[Antihero]

And before anyone else asks, yes I realize self voting can be scummy but if town I'd gonna lynch a watcher on day 1 based on info from Andrew who fake claims roles all the time.

Also not sure if I beleive Andrew based on my results last night, somebody did visit shotty last night, didn't feel the need to say anything earlier cause clearly he is alive and hadn't thought of the possibility of Andrew fake claiming

Andrew is mad cause of another game and he's trying to take it out on me here, he was really pissed at me.

Can we lynch this scum now?

[Antihero]

I'd like to point out the above rolefishing conversation between Joystick and CKD and Joystick's reaction to CKD's vote on him:

Wow, isn't that interesting you show up and put me at L-1

I still do not feel this wagon on me is a good one, the reasons are iffy at best.

Maybe I'm reading into it too much, but it almost comes across as "Isn't it interesting that my scumbuddy is voting for me. Can't you guys tell I am being bussed."

Yes, I think CKD's previous vote fits the bussing bill the best.

Hammer, please.

[Antihero]

funny how so many people are having discussions about bussing WAY before a flip....

I am more sure than ever that my vote is in the right place.

Unless andrew is lying, which at this point I don't think he is, we should know how hop flips.

when/if Hop flips town...what is your stance on my vote...

Your play is still under the radarish.

[Antihero]

also, anti, i just realized that you just replaced into another game that I was having issues posting in..

FoS Anti

...you should know that I have been busy without having to fact check much.

The number of posts isn't whats bothering me. It's that I don't see much content to them.

[Antihero]

also, anti, i just realized that you just replaced into another game that I was having issues posting in..

FoS Anti

...you should know that I have been busy without having to fact check much.

The number of posts isn't whats bothering me. It's that I don't see much content to them.

ok did you see more content in the other game around the same time?

I haven't gotten around to catching up on the other game, so no.

[Antihero]

...I saw that smashbro posted and I got excited because I thought it was going to be the flip.

[Antihero]

Nothing? We have a scum flip. I also don't see what andrew's going to tell us that's going to be helpful right now.

Should the hider go ahead and claim? I don't see the harm since apparently the mafia already knows who he is, and having confirmed town is never a bad thing.

From the fact that 2K3 semi-active lurked through yesterday, I'm already not liking his player slot, but I'll give Empking a chance. The fact that dry-fit never got a vote out yesterday also bothers me a bit...

[Antihero]

Actually,

Andrew, don't claim results yet

. We might need you to catch the scum in another lie, like you did yesterday.

[Antihero]

dude nameloc, whats the watcher for- its for watching confirmed townies.

what about night 0 , did u hide or not.

finally, emp king is scum as well. i know this for a fact

What do you mean "whats the watcher for"? I didn't say anything about a "watcher".

Night 0, I did not hide. Obviously since it would have been a great risk since I do have any town reads yet.

And how exactly do you now Empking is scum? You claimed RC, which does NOT detect scum.

andrew's making the point that the watcher will watch whoever you confirm as town. True, the watchers can't coordinate their actions, but that's OK, since scum doesn't know who's being watched (gives scum a lot of WIFOM).

[Antihero]

Oh, wait a second. I don't know if the person you hid behind isn't even confirmed anyway (in the role PMs, I'm not seeing that the hider dies if he hides behind scum).

@MOD: Does the hider die if he hides behind scum?

[Antihero]

EBWOP: that "isn't" should be "is"

[Antihero]

If I announce the "confirmed townie" the scum might steer away from the person in fear of being watched.

Well, good. Then that townie sticks around till the endgame.

[Antihero]

andrew, you forgot scenario 3: they don't kill you, they kill one of the watchers. Then, any benefit we might have gotten from this plan would be totally negated.
Since you've proven scenario 2 would result in a scum autoloss, it's not going to happen.

I'm against it.

[Antihero]

whats the chance that they kill one of the watchers

2/9.

No

9 players - you - the hider (loc) - 2 scum = 5

2/5

CKD, I corrected myself when I said I thought andrew was lying. I even said in the post why I thought that.
Also, I said a million times, the number of posts didn't bother me; it was the active lurkerish style of the posts.

[Antihero]

Yeah, I didn't know whether or not to believe andrew's claim, so what? With jason advertising the fact that andrew has an aweful track record with fakeclaiming as town, I'm surprised more people didn't question the claim.

Well, let's go back to this gem.

Everything is either a) stuff echoed from other players or b) a crappy jab at shotty

[Antihero]

VOTE: shotty

[Antihero]

I get exactly what you're hinting at.

And andrew exposed you, scum.

[Antihero]

cough* shotty ur townie * RIGHT

softclaiming watcher + not actually being watcher = scum

[Antihero]

1 Role Cop --- Investigates someone. Will get a yes if the person is a Watcher or Hider, no if the person is vanilla town or a goon

I'm sorry scum, but you failed.

[Antihero]

Andrew, you completely misled me.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: CKD

shotty, what exactly are these obv reasons? And why did you pick Bazz? And why are you giving scumpoints to a confirmed town?

[Antihero]

Andrew, you completely misled me.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: CKD

shotty, what exactly are these obv reasons? And why did you pick Bazz? And why are you giving scumpoints to a confirmed town?

OMGUS vote me, then completely talk about other people in the post, so no one can tell.

Oh, please. I already gave reasons, stop making hay.

Okay what Andrew was trying to say was he wanted Shotty to "stop claiming". In other words

shotty is a watcher

(according to Andrew's breadcrumb). Sorry Andrew and Shotty for saying this but you're confusing the hell out of everybody. Now with that being said, I think it's time to move on from that and start looking for scum again.

Since andrew said he got a vanilla result on someone, I doubt andrew knows this.

And andrew, shotty softclaimed and you came in and immediately called bullshit on it. What was I supposed to think?

[Antihero]

^Scum would only autolose if they were stupid enough to walk into that scenario. Following the plan wouldn't give us an autowin. Did you read the thing you quoted?

[Antihero]

^

Scum would only autolose if they were stupid enough to walk into that scenario.

Following the plan wouldn't give us an autowin. Did you read the thing you quoted?

that is what sticks out to me... how would town not win if scum auto lose? why would it be stupid for town to put scum in an autolose scanario?

Scum would only autolose if they chose to kill andrew in that scenario! Otherwise, they wouldn't! Since town can't control the nightkill, this plan doesn't ensure a town win!

Any more questions?

[Antihero]

I never said jason was scummy, shotty. Argh, the misrep in this game is reaching irritating levels!

CKD: I think he's blowing the whole "Antihero trying to derail the Hop wagon" out of proportion. Puts Hop at L-1, though his lynch might have been inevitable by then. Other than that, not a whole lot to say. I guess you really have been under the radar...

...and everyone is wondering why I'm voting CKD?

[Antihero]

Wait, what? Why are we lynching jason?

[Antihero]

No, it wasn't immediate. It was after the whole "OMG, shotty is SCUMZZZ SLIPPED!" shenanigans. Also, please tell me where I said I thought andrew was scum.

Bullshit does indeed describe your case.

[Antihero]

Well, I'm a VT, so I guess I'm not a bad lynch for today... *sigh*

Some final thoughts: My picks for the scum are CKD and dry-fit (if bazz is scum, he did a really good job at it; I wouldn't be shocked if Z is scum, but I have a townread on him).

[Antihero]

antihero claim...

Like I told Shotty, let's don't be too hasty. I rather others weigh in and give their opinions before Antihero claims. If he is watcher, he needs to claim only as a last resort.

P-edit: *sigh*...........

What are you sighing about? You're the one who slapped on the vote to L2 (and who's another viable lynch candidate right now?). Plus, I'm not the other watcher.

If you want to get frustrated, I suggest you direct some of it toward yourself.

[Antihero]

antihero claim...

Oh, and before anyone starts whining about "AH, why did you claim, you weren't at L1," I took this as an intent to vote.

[Antihero]

antihero claim...

Like I told Shotty, let's don't be too hasty. I rather others weigh in and give their opinions before Antihero claims. If he is watcher, he needs to claim only as a last resort.

P-edit: *sigh*...........

What are you sighing about? You're the one who slapped on the vote to L2 (and who's another viable lynch candidate right now?). Plus, I'm not the other watcher.

If you want to get frustrated, I suggest you direct some of it toward yourself.

If you read what I said, you'll know exactly why I'm sighing. I was telling Andrew not to be too hasty with getting you to claim and now you've gone and claimed. I said before that if we get a VT claim we need to lynch said person so we don't help the scum watcher-snipe. Therefore you're more than likely going to be our lynch. Why the 'tude and backlash over a sigh? Can't I sigh if I want to? sheesh!

I'm a little pissed that you slapped your vote on me with crappy reasoning. That's why the 'tude.

What about jason?

jason, while obviously not reading, is probably town.

[Antihero]

andrew, what nameloc means is that there are more than 2 people needing protection, but that's OK, because we can use WIFOM against the scum.

If the watchers randomly determine their target, then the scum don't know who's getting watched and they're taking a risk (50% risk) by killing a confirmed town. I agree with name's plan.

[Antihero]

^then they have a 50% chance of being outed.

[Antihero]

Phew, I genuinely did miss Jason's vote on CKD and thought I'd dug myself into a whole there.
Good game. Although it was pretty much down to our power roles, rather than any decent scumhunting on my part.

We caught joystick through scumhunting. And we would've caught CKD had you chuckleheads listened to me. :p

[Antihero]

...and that andrew gambit was shockingly well executed. I think he and dryfit deserve major kudos for that.