Mini 1070 The Godfather:Hunt for Sollozzo (GAME!)

[Thor665]

How do you think pacman initiated/elongated the situation of being "out there"?

[Thor665]

EBWOP - the above is @Bud

[Exilon]

And here it is:

RedCoyote is getting on your case for talking about your role. I can see how asking you what you mean by your role

NOT

getting you nightkilled

could

be considered rolefishing (emphasis meant to clearly indicate I was reading), but he's mainly trying to get you to shut up about your role so you do not leak important information to scum. In fact, you've already softclaimed bulletproof—not something you should have done. Best case scenario, the post does exactly what it says on the tin and tells the scum to kill someone else.

Oh, I see where you're getting at. It makes things bit more clear, thanks. But in my defense:
I softclaimed bulletproof as well as softclaiming scum as well as softclaiming a huge amount of other stuff. In other words, there's a huge amount of WIFOM there that only confuses scum. And also, why would I softclaim bulletproof?

Again, not something scum needs to know. I love having lots of information, but gee whiz, this is getting anti-town!

It was a joke comment. I made a joke comment too, and then I labeled it. That's my point. That's why I called RC's response 'rolefishing'.

---

The implication is clearly there. You're making this into the Exilon show, you know, and we're all little action figures in your cardboard box.

It's fine if you want to be a leader, but you're already rubbing me the wrong way.

Well, I... can't really/don't know how to answer this xD

The effect is the same. The point I'm making is that you're softclaiming.

And what am I softclaiming?

Because there is no scumtell, no read, and no power, that I know of, that will give you a perfect predicition of every player's alignment some 3 or 4 pages into the game. That's pure arrogance and foolhardy behavior that will just set everyone off course. The only players that know the scum are the scum themselves.

Of course not. And if there isn't, then you can't possibly interpret my statement as me saying they are scum with 100% accuracy. What I did was propose a possibility and telling people to discuss it. 'X and Y are scum. What do you think?'

You don't have to ask the same question multiple times in one post. My last sentence means that if I'm able to pick up on your, "I have a role that will get me nightkilled", then the scum will just as easily be able to.

It was quoted in bold letters, 'the above sentence is a trap.' Good to know scum will pick up the same thing you do, because there was exactly zero information to be got by that sentence.

[Bub Bidderskins]

EBWOP - the above is @Bud

Do you mean "@Bub"? It's got two "b's" in it, you know.

How do you think pacman initiated/elongated the situation of being "out there"?

How's this for being "out there":

head asplodes*
This is a circular reasoning. I make a second random vote, then you vote me by saying that it wasn't random because I said it was random? When my intentions were making a random vote?

I don't know how, but you WIFOMed yourself. Good job.
My vote, as you said, was totally random. Is there any particular reason (preferably other than that circular reasoning) to think that?

His head freakin' asploded. That draws attention to one's self, scum don't like to do that.

[Bub Bidderskins]

@BV, who is your top suspect right now? Would love to see you more active.

[Far_Cry]

UNVOTE: Exilon. I need a little time to go over Exilon's posts. And I need to look at RC.

Because of the way Pacman and you went out there in such a way as to draw attention to yourself. For a couple of pages, you were the sole attraction of the town. That is not a place scum want to be.

Ok, this makes sense. Only stupid scum would try to draw so much attention to themselves. My read on pacman and thor is similar to yours: town vs. town.

[FakeGod]

@Exilon: softclaiming bunch of stuff might confuse scum, but confuses town much more

@RedC: I don't get the "preemtive voting based on theory" thing. Explain?

[StrangerCoug]

And also, why would I softclaim bulletproof?

Lynch me if I know, seeing as it's bad strategy.

Again, not something scum needs to know. I love having lots of information, but gee whiz, this is getting anti-town!

It was a joke comment. I made a joke comment too, and then I labeled it. That's my point.

*shoots himself in the head for missing the humor*

Will let Exilon vs. RedCoyote play out a bit.

[Exilon]

lol StrangerCoug.
Seriously now, there was no need (and there really isn't) to make that comment more than what it was. In fact, the only ones who REALLY care about it would be scum, not town. For Town, the most important aspect of a person is their alignment. And facing it, a softclaim of that nature (truthful or not) doesn't exactly say anything about my alignment. I'm a bit sleepy, so if soemthing seems off in what I just said, that's why.

[StrangerCoug]

That's OK; right now I'm in "the RL world is after me" mode.

[pacman281292]

Sorry for the delay. Forgot to post yesterday and got terribusy today.

First, to settle Thor's issue once and for all: My second random vote came just one post after my first random vote. It had totally no serious reason, as is normal with random votes. So, your initial case holds no water, unless you want to imply that a second random vote is indeed a scum manoeuvre (which would be a terrible case of strawman, if you ask me).

Unvote.

Now, rereading. Post coming right away (YEAH THIS TIME FOR REAL!)

[pacman281292]

I reread Far_Cry's post, where he mentioned that overreacting was Thor's signature. At that post he takes a poor stance to a "for bandwagoning" vote. Indeed, "vote for bandwagoning" is a fairly common RVS reason to vote.
Worthless.
FakeGod follows my bandwagon shortly thereafter, with some more bizarre reasoning (that I made an inconsistency by switching my random vote. sorry, but me not see it).
RC tried to pull us back into RVS. Yeah, RVS is fun, and is sometimes important, but it was already clear that RVS was dead. All the posts after Thor's posts (except confirmation by recently arrived players) were serious. Such attempt would be useless, and might have led us to a stall.
I can see Exilon's 57 as semi-random. Trying to produce more discussion at early non-RVS isn't actually a bad idea, even if it's by such bizarre posting. That's what I interpreted from there.
However, at that point I didn't see any particular relationship between Thor and Far_Cry. So, my answer would have still been "IDK".
Far_Cry's 79 is somehow overreacting to Exilon. I don't see how Exilon's play is "typical scum", but I understand the fact Exilon's accusation was at least bizarre.
Exilon's reasoning at post 87 is an interesting theory. However, I think he overreacted to Bub's choice of not taking a stance; Far_Cry had posted almost nothing, and it might have just been Bub's choice of wording what he called as obvscummy.
Humm... me confused.
Also, his response to RC's comment is a large overreaction to an overreaction by RC. The comment was most likely a joke I'd say, but still it might be misleading. So RC's question. Your reply is a huge overreaction to it IMO.
I've got to reread Bub's reply to this carefully, however.
RC's 94 isn't good:
Your post "trying to bring back RVS" didn't actually look like sarcasm. The fact you voted Thor makes me think you did actually mean to say that Thor's pulling us out of RVS was actually bad.
Your response to Exilon's explanation to his move is an overreaction. Exilon was just explaining the meaning of his move; I don't see how it's just him "lecturing everyone on his protownness" as you said.
Last part looks like you didn't read the post well. Bub was just asking FG for his post-RVS vote. What you said was unrelated.
I don't quite get SC's reasoning to vote Exilon at his 96. However, I agree on that his reply to RC's "rolefishing" (huh?) isn't good. I'm more inclined to say it's an overreaction, but oh well.
F_C claims having been on bad mood while writing a post. Well, I think that explains his aforementioned overreaction. Fair enough for me.
RC votes bv, basically for lurking. He claimed being V/LA; I'd like him to talk as well, but it's still a bad vote IMO.
Exilon's reply to Bub's reply:
I don't understand the first paragraph. huh.
Second paragraph is fair enough. Indeed, the first part is WIFOM, but I think it was more of an innocent assumption. Second part of Bub's post was fair enough IMO, so I don't get what are you trying to extract from there.
Third part is also OK. However, what would it imply then?
Fourth part... I reread you in ISO, and couldn't find your reasons to believe F_C and Thor were somehow scum. Only noteworthy thing I found in bold was at ISO2, and was just mentioning how F_C's reply was an exemption to the "scum won't take any stance" rule.
Rest of the post is replying to RC, FC and SC

(LOL THEY ALL HAVE CAPPED C ON THEIR NAMES /unrelated)

. Many of these replies do look like awful overreactions. I might break them down later, but that's the general feel I got from that part of the post.
Thor's 111 is indeed an interesting post. Gotta recheck RC more carefully...
Zaj's post about RC seems like a weak attempt to take a stance. Humm... I'm not sure.


Humm... I'm starting to think this format of catch up wasn't actually a good idea. I'll finish the reread and regroup my thoughts based on it tomorrow.

PS: I'm going to have limited acces, starting this monday (Oct 18). Then I'll have no access between Oct 22 and Oct 29.
I did expect to have at least a little of access during the aforementioned week, but I just confirmed I won't. So,
@MOD: Please act accordingly. If you think me leaving for one week might not hurt the game terribly, then do nothing. Else, I'll have to request temporary replacement. I'll try to help you with it as much as I can. Sorry.

[Andrius]

Votecount 1.4

"Mr. Corleone is a man who insists on hearing bad news immediately." - Tom Hagen

RedCoyote (2): Wingless, Katsuki
StrangerCoug (1): bv310
pacman281292 (2): Thor665, FakeGod
Exilon (1): StrangerCoug
Bud Bidderskins (1): Exilon
FakeGod (1): RedCoyote

Not Voting (4): Zajnet, Bub Bidderskins, Far_Cry, pacman281292

With 12 alive it takes 7 to gun someone down.
Deadline is set at October 31st, at 5:00pm PST.

Prods: Wingless is V/LA until today, IIRC.
And if I botched something in the votecount, don't fret. I'll fix it later, when its not 1am.

PS: I'm going to have limited acces, starting this monday (Oct 18). Then I'll have no access between Oct 22 and Oct 29.
I did expect to have at least a little of access during the aforementioned week, but I just confirmed I won't. So,
@MOD: Please act accordingly. If you think me leaving for one week might not hurt the game terribly, then do nothing. Else, I'll have to request temporary replacement. I'll try to help you with it as much as I can. Sorry.

Yeah, I'm fine with a V/LA for a week. If anyone else has a problem with it, feel free to PM me though. Just realize that deadline will be a couple days after you get back.

[RedCoyote]

@RedC: I don't get the "preemtive voting based on theory" thing. Explain?

I don't either. You're the one who made the post. It was something like... you're going to vote the next person to start a bandwagon. You threw Bub's name in there at some point. I don't like it, FG, and I don't really care for your interactions so far.

---

Will let Exilon vs. RedCoyote play out a bit.

Sorry to say that I don't have much more I want to bring up with Exilon at the moment. Everyone seems to think that Exilon's posts are filled with funny jokes that I'm, apparently, too dumb to understand. "The above sentence is a trap", "I'm claiming but I'm not", "this person is scum but he's really not". Sounds like a bunch of non-sequiturs and arrogance to me, but I have no idea how to even have a discussion about it.

[FakeGod]

@RedC: I don't get the "preemtive voting based on theory" thing. Explain?

I don't either. You're the one who made the post. It was something like... you're going to vote the next person to start a bandwagon.

Ok awesome, but let's take a look at what I actually said.

I'll put my vote on the highest wagon after Andy gives us a VC.

and if you were unsure what I meant there for whatever reason, then let's look at what I posted right afterward after Andrius gives us a VC.

......and there is no highest bandwagon.

It should be pretty obvious what I meant at this point.

Instead of skimming everything, you should actually read if you're gonna go around accusing people.

[Exilon]

Sorry to say that I don't have much more I want to bring up with Exilon at the moment. Everyone seems to think that Exilon's posts are filled with funny jokes that I'm, apparently, too dumb to understand. "The above sentence is a trap", "I'm claiming but I'm not", "this person is scum but he's really not". Sounds like a bunch of non-sequiturs and arrogance to me, but I have no idea how to even have a discussion about it.

It's not arrogance, it's trying to get starting reads on people through bizarre methods (which, in my opinion, works pretty well in early stages). However, it's not exactly random. Here, I'll clear it a bit more:

Posts #44 and #45, page 2:

I believe so.

You already had a random vote out.
You decided to change it (this is not random, something made you decide you should change your random vote)
You cite two reasons for the change;

1) [He] Bandwagon[ed] other player.
2) [Was] the Mod of Hydra Mafia.

2. is pretty obviously not a real reason (if it is, let everyone know so we can lynch you right away )
1. Is something of a real reason - maybe you like RVSing bandwagon voters. Ah, but 2 players had done the same thing, so, once again, your vote showed direction that was beyond RVS.

Your change of vote wasn't RVS
Your choice of bv instead of Thor wasn't RVS
Yet you claimed everything was RVS.
I submit that the evidence shows you were making a conscious decision to vote bv and/or unvote StrangerCoug, and that suggests scum mindset which makes you the clearly most obvious scum of the day thus far.
I'm pretty happy with the vote.

Thank you Thor, for taking us out of RVS (again).

@pacman: You just have to know that this is Thor's playstyle. He takes what many would think as a joke as serious (in this case, your vote on bv.)

Nonetheless, Thor brings up a point: you voted for bv for bandwagoning, when Thor did the same. The only difference between them now is that bv is modding some Hydra mafia (which is obviously just a joke reason for voting him.)

Despite the fact that this is page 2, I, too will take seriously a vote that was made because someone bandwagoned in RVS. I'm not going to assume whether your vote on him (bv) was random or not. I'm going to take bandwagoning as a serious reason for voting someone.

I would like to hear some talk on this. So, @everyone: What are your thoughts on pacman's vote on bv?

Which is a bit of extreme buddying, as noticed by:

$5 says Exilon's reasoning is that Far_Cry acted friendly to me in his first post - a massive buddy tell indeed. Don't see much value in hunting for buddy tells at this stage, but then I'm terrible with buddy tells.

A few posts after I posted the 'discuss' request. At least Thor was aware of the buddying and felt like he could/should point it out. No one else really paid much mention to it (except me) - so it's up to your interpretation what it means.

[StrangerCoug]

Sorry to say that I don't have much more I want to bring up with Exilon at the moment. Everyone seems to think that Exilon's posts are filled with funny jokes that I'm, apparently, too dumb to understand. "The above sentence is a trap", "I'm claiming but I'm not", "this person is scum but he's really not". Sounds like a bunch of non-sequiturs and arrogance to me, but I have no idea how to even have a discussion about it.

Don't feel so bad! If you are too dumb to understand his jokes, then so am I. I'm a take-damn-near-everything-seriously kind of person, which doesn't do me any favors. Then again, I

DO

think it's time for Exilon to get serious.

I think Exilon's the best lead to follow and I left my vote on him when I said I'd let it play out, so unless somebody does something crazy...

[Wingless]

I'm rereading now.
I don't like Exilon's play, but i'll read the whole text before posting the reasons.

[Wingless]

EBWOP - the above is @Bud

Do you mean "@Bub"? It's got two "b's" in it, you know.

I think at most 1 of Bub and Thor is scum. Scum partners listen to their mate carefully and learn their names very precisely. I think it has a very bad chance that Thor is scum and wrote Bub incorrectly.

I don't like the way Exilon plays.
He's trying to look townie. I think it is more important to scum because they can win only by surviving for a long time. Townies hunt scum instead intensively.
He's also making posts which has many general things in it. I think it is scummy, because it is makes townies believe Exilon's town if they agree with his statements.

He's the most suspicious to me now.

Unvote
Vote: Exilon

[Thor665]

Jokes or not, I think Exilon has provided some actual interactions and some reasonable explanations of his reasoning - which strikes me as pretty town.
Feeling less fond of FG insomuch as he doesn't seem to be coming out with much of his own opinions yet and his last post was nothing but defense and a jab at RedCoyote.
StrangerCoug is in the scumpond now because he seems to be clinging to the sidelines with a white-knuckled grip of super focus.

Wingless continues to flutter around a lot too. Opinions - use them.

<---EBWOP - actually that was a pretty decent opinion post.

Unvote: pacman
Vote: RedCoyote

I'll spare re-stating my reasons unless someone is too lazy to search my iso and demands it. Not overly fond of pacman still, but I can't seem to get a lot of traction on the wagon and his focused drive to misunderstand my vote on him isn't as fun as it once was. His wall post of attempted towniness was decent enough though, and though I suspect it might have been a screen I am forced to admit it's more town points then some people have bothered to accrue yet and thus it is worth backing off of him for now.

[StrangerCoug]

StrangerCoug is in the scumpond now because he seems to be clinging to the sidelines with a white-knuckled grip of super focus.

If I feel the need to wait for information to come out, I'll do so. Exilon's the only standout to me at this point.

[Thor665]

And if I feel a need to find your unwillingness to really wade in scummy I shall do so as well. So I think we are in agreement.

[StrangerCoug]

Is there anybody on which you want me to state my opinion?

[Zajnet]

EBWOP - the above is @Bud

Do you mean "@Bub"? It's got two "b's" in it, you know.

I think at most 1 of Bub and Thor is scum. Scum partners listen to their mate carefully and learn their names very precisely. I think it has a very bad chance that Thor is scum and wrote Bub incorrectly.

This is both complete WIFOM and not true.

I don't like the way Exilon plays.
He's trying to look townie. I think it is more important to scum because they can win only by surviving for a long time. Townies hunt scum instead intensively.
He's also making posts which has many general things in it. I think it is scummy, because it is makes townies believe Exilon's town if they agree with his statements.

He's the most suspicious to me now.

Unvote
Vote: Exilon

This I might be inclined to agree with. Hold that thought until I have time to reread (busy weekend).

[Thor665]

Is there anybody on which you want me to state my opinion?

Everyone, constantly

How about your Wingless read currently? The old stuff is fine, the new stuff I'd especially like to hear your take on.