Vi wrote:The argument that Equinox backed down after a claim is absolutely worthless for the following reasons.
*EQUINOX DIDN'T ASK FOR ONE. I've had a bit of a rush of pointing out obvious things these days and it's bringing me into the SCREAMING DEATH CLUB in spite of me actually hating that style of play, but THIS IS ON THE PAGE.
While I agree that ckd really should not have claimed in that situation if he's town, that is a risk of putting someone at L-1. Town and scum players alike freak out at pressure and the perception that they are going to be lynched. Now, the argument could be made that ckd knows better than this and that'd be some amount of support for thinking his claim scummy. However, we've seen that ckd doesn't exactly follow established site meta anyhow, so meh. The fact remains that Equinox felt ckd was scummy enough to push him to the brink even if she didn't ask. If she saw him that scummy that early, I personally don't expect that kind of pressure to whamo disappear so quickly.
Vi wrote:*If you believe a claim, you should unvote. Why stick with voting Town?
I agree with you. Lynching town, even in a massclaim centered setup like this one, isn't better than lynching scum. The question is if Equinox is being genuine in her belief of the claim. I'm not entirely sold.
Vi wrote:*Equinox didn't actually unvote right after the claim. She stuck with it for a post.
Oh, please. It was within a couple of hours and ckd really didn't respond to her points. She said herself her points were trumped by his tone. I'm not saying that's not possible, just not something I'm going to take on scout's honor.
Vi wrote:This is misrepresenting what I said SO MUCH. THERE IS NOTHING IN EQUIyou know why don't you just read it earlier in my post; it's in all caps there too and I'm fairly positive I've said it before.
I don't feel it was misrepresenting what you originally said about it. Which was:
Alnara wrote:Iiiiii'm not buying this actually.
Pretty ambiguous. If you're talking about a different post, you're going to have to quote it for me because that's the line I was referring to.
Vi wrote:If Equinox is Town, then while prompting a claim wouldn't be good for Town she's still Town.
That was more of me just ranting that it's really bad play as town in this setup. If I actually get the feeling Equinox is town, I'm not going to want to lynch her today obviously. I hope you aren't implying that I would, as that is seriously reaching
sottyrulez wrote:This is the biggest point of contention we have. There is no reason, NONE to unvote a VT claim. Even more so in this kind of set up, the tone reasoning is a weak excuse.
This actually sounds more weak sauce than what you're arguing for. Yes it improves the scum's chances of stopping PRs tonight, but I don't think there is a net gain by lynching someone you think is town. You should try to lynch scum no matter what the setup is. I mean, look at last game. PRs played essentially no part, but I don't think the town was at an inherent disadvantage on Day 2.
Vi wrote:Next question. If there is no reason, NONE to unvote a VT claim, why are we not lynching (more specifically, you not voting) ckd? Suppose you're wrong about Equinox and we lynch her. Now we have a dead Townie of some kind AND a claimed Vanilla lying around, and we're in an even worse situation. At least with lynching ckd we don't have any more claims. With that in mind, face it, you didn't "pretty much HAVE to vote Equinox" at all.
I actually agree with Vi here. If your stance is never unvote, then you should have never unvoted. Then again, sottyrulez could have been over indulgent in the hyperbole too.
Equinox wrote:I'm betting my own lynch CKD is town. Wouldn't make sense if I moved him down only a notch or two.
Why would you bet your own lynch? Are you unsure if you're town? And moving beyond the hyperbole of THAT statement, why isn't he even higher if you're that confident in him being town. I really am trying to understand your reasoning here, but it's not coming across as clear to me.
Equinox wrote:What I do know is I was taught that people don't claim when they're at L-1 until someone asks for it. It's the expected play.
Do you recall who taught you this? That might help me out some here.
Sottyrulez wrote:We're not lynching/voting CKD because the wagon died. Equinox played a large role in that, you know this. We had absolutely no intention of unvoting CKD before that. Equinox played a significant role in killing the bandwagon and she's scummy for it.
Well, in fairness, I think your unvote was much more crucial to the demise of the wagon. He was still at L-2, yeah? If you felt so passionately about him needing to be lynched, I would think you would have argued for it and explained why it was necessary.
Sottyrulez wrote:We are not voting for anyone other that CKD or Equinox. Yes it will be disastrous if both CKD and Equinox turn out to be town, but right now we think Equinox has a higher chance of being scum than CKD.
And then this basically sounds in contradiction of always lynch VT in E7. You're either scumhunting or playing strategy. I'm happy to have support for my Equinox wagon, but I don't like your cognitive dissonance at all. You really need to pick a side of your own argument.
Equinox wrote:curiouskarmadog: You went on defensive mode on page 4, which is understandable, but as of post 100, you've gone back to "not ruffling feathers" except to tell me that the case I made on you was full of it. What are your stances? Getting attacked shouldn't preclude you from continuing to hunt scum... but you knew that.
I support this motion. I still believe ckd is town, but playing the mute on current events is starting to grind my gears.
Equinox wrote:For the record, I agree with sottyrulez that I'm the better lynch if, by the end of the day, it's still between me and CKD (just not for the same reason), but that is a terrible dichotomy they're presenting, mainly because I firmly believe/know that neither of those bandwagons are on mafia.
Speaking of gear grinding...I ask again why in the heck you would want to be lynched over someone else if you know you're town? I thought you were just being dramatic before, but apparently you believe this? Unless you have insight into who has what role (in which case you could just tell us who the scum are and save us the time), you should never want yourself lynched. Even if you're 99% sure on ckd (which I doubt your read is that strong over tone) there is still a 1% difference between that and your confidence in your own role. Correct? Then again AtE and all that.
Vi wrote:I'm seriously having a cow right now about this game.
Would you say you're moo-derately enraged?
Vi wrote:I'd like to check the feasibility of an AwesomeTownBloc consisting of myself, Equinox, and curiouskarmadog.
I feel so betrayed. But seriously, AwesomeTownBloc's work much better when you have solid reads. Are you quite confident in your reads already? If not, your eagerness to chain yourself to people kinda bugs me.
Npau and SK being gone kind of puts a wrench in things. This thread is getting a little incestuous and I would like some other opinions floating around. Ckd, you're going to be the next best thing. Please get in here and comment with some decent thoughts.
tl;dr
My wall is bigger than yours. And it brings all the boys to the yard.............wait....