Mini 1057: Unsubsidized Mafia (Game Over!)

[Thor665]

How is it we can have a couple slow days in a row and then a sudden super explosion on the day I'm tired and worn out? Not fair!

I'm really underwhelmed by the Far_Cry case and am impressed that DH is willing to argue semantics with him to such a degree (which is all just a mush of nothingness) but is unwilling to dig back and find the odd occurences that predicated the vote in the first place. Bleh. At the very least he should stop acting like his case is so stellar as compared to the jimfinn one.

I seem to recall getting a pretty strong newbie read off of Nexus - though I will agree with the "why would singer defend town" angle, I will point out that a simple possible answer was the old 'defend town and get town points for being right' shtick.

Other then singersinger defending him is there anything to this case?

Actually - looking back at the iso I had forgotten he was a big proponent of the sarcasm case and also had that odd parking of his vote on Jack thing. Okay, I'm game for this one.

Unvote: jimfinn
Vote: Nexus

(somewhat) Needless to say, I'm okay with jimfinn not claiming now.

[Far_Cry]

I do agree with Thor that at this point, DH is kind of playing like he's full of himself, thinking that his case against me is soooo good. However, I'm beginning to change my views on him (DH). More and more he starts looking town to me. I doubt scum would be so die-hard in pursuing a case against me. Plus, possibilities of him buddying with jimfinn is low, as it's quite obvious (although I am sick and tired of him defending jimfinn, when jimfinn should be doing so himself.)

Concerning Nexus, I see the points you guys are giving about him. And I'm becoming more convinced that he is suspicious. However, my only problem is that I feel that we just let jimfinn off the hook. We built up a wagon against him, got him to L-1, and now we just let him go. It doesn't seem sense to me. I still feel that jimfinn is actively lurking.

I will iso Nexus, and see what comes up.

[Far_Cry]

OK, I won't be able to do my ISO right away. But just a question for you guys: when I do my ISO, would you rather I quote his posts (which would make my post longer, but that means you won't have to go back and look at his posts), or should I not quote his posts? Whatever is easier for you guys.

[Thor665]

Generally on any post that big I just skim over it and stop reading about half-way through and decide it's all useless blather anyway. So either method is fine with me

[saporovirus]

As far as I'm concerned, Nexus and Far_Cry are roughly the same level of suspicious. As far as I'm concerned, there isn't enough on jimfinn to judge either way. Flipping one or the other might give us a better view of what jimfinn is.

[DemonHybrid]

I do agree with Thor that at this point, DH is kind of playing like he's full of himself, thinking that his case against me is soooo good. However, I'm beginning to change my views on him (DH). More and more he starts looking town to me. I doubt scum would be so die-hard in pursuing a case against me. Plus, possibilities of him buddying with jimfinn is low, as it's quite obvious (although I am sick and tired of him defending jimfinn, when jimfinn should be doing so himself.)

Concerning Nexus, I see the points you guys are giving about him. And I'm becoming more convinced that he is suspicious. However, my only problem is that I feel that we just let jimfinn off the hook. We built up a wagon against him, got him to L-1, and now we just let him go. It doesn't seem sense to me. I still feel that jimfinn is actively lurking.

I will iso Nexus, and see what comes up.

Are you backpedaling with your read on me? What happened to your FoS? I've been pursuing you this hard all day, so what was it that made you decide that I'm town now?

I think my case is pretty legit and my vote is staying on you.

[Far_Cry]

OK, I won't quote. I'll make it easier to read (or at least to Thor):

ISO 2 & 3: He votes singer in the RVS, then goes on to give some bad reasoning for it. I understand it's RVS, but it's still something to look at. Plus, considering that this is your first game as scum (or at least on this site), I'm thinking this is might be a weak attempt to distance himself from singer.

ISO 4: Technically makes his own post useless, since he notes someone jumping wagons, but then goes on to say that it just doesn't matter.

ISO 5: He explains his reasoning for attacking wagon-hopping. Wait just a second - didn't you say that it doesn't matter? He then jumps the gun and votes for Jack. His reasoning for the vote makes me think that he is just a confused newbie.

ISO 6: Playing the sorry game by telling nhammen that he was focusing about Thor and "forgot" about DH. Hmmm.....

ISO 9: He gives a vaild point. There is no reason why everybody should defend Jack.

ISO 10: He reveals some of his playstyle (that he doesn't like anybody lurking, even during the early stages of the game.)

ISO 11: Defends Devon, though it's a reasonable defense (that she's busy.)

ISO 14: This is a poor excuse for analysis. He sits on the fence and decides to attack no one.

ISO 15: Attacks Thor because he doesn't like his attitude.

ISO 17 & 19: Goes back and supports his reasons for attacking Thor's attitude. At this point, he is still sitting on the fence, not going along with anything yet.

ISO 20: Still sitting on the fence. He says he can't "articulate himself." Don't know if this is sincere or not.

ISO 21: He is suddenly in the game and, along with everybody else, attacking sapo's role claim.

ISO 22: Another bad attempt to distance himself from singer. What we wanted from you is to prove that you are not with singer. Instead, you hide in the corner and say, "I have no desire to be associated with singer at all." The way you say this, though bad, give you some townie points because I doubt scum would phrase it like that. Though I never know.

ISO 23: FINALLY, a good post, and some good analysis from him. You finally announce who your top scum picks are, though I don't really agree with them.

ISO 24: I'm seeing a contradiction here. I was not in your top 3 scum list in your previous post, yet it looks like you would vote either me or jimfinn ("I'd be happy with Far_Cry and jimfinn.....)

All in all, I haven't really liked Nexus's lackluster play. I don't think I have sufficient evidence to vote him quite yet, but with a few votes against Nexus, I think he need to come back and defend himself.

[Far_Cry]

I do agree with Thor that at this point, DH is kind of playing like he's full of himself, thinking that his case against me is soooo good. However, I'm beginning to change my views on him (DH). More and more he starts looking town to me. I doubt scum would be so die-hard in pursuing a case against me. Plus, possibilities of him buddying with jimfinn is low, as it's quite obvious (although I am sick and tired of him defending jimfinn, when jimfinn should be doing so himself.)

Concerning Nexus, I see the points you guys are giving about him. And I'm becoming more convinced that he is suspicious. However, my only problem is that I feel that we just let jimfinn off the hook. We built up a wagon against him, got him to L-1, and now we just let him go. It doesn't seem sense to me. I still feel that jimfinn is actively lurking.

I will iso Nexus, and see what comes up.

Are you backpedaling with your read on me? What happened to your FoS? I've been pursuing you this hard all day, so what was it that made you decide that I'm town now?

Hold it cowboy. I've looked at things a little differently and changed my mind. Looking at the way you've tunneled the shit out of me, and not bothered not attack anyone else D2, you are playing either a really stupid scum game or a one-sided antitown game. I'm thinking the latter, because I know you're smarter than that and doubt you would act so retarded as a scum player.

[DemonHybrid]

Yep, let's degrade ourselves to the "insult the other's intelligence" realm.

Post #381 sounds like a bunch of attacking. If you really believe that that's how I played (by the way, I'm about to pick it apart in a little, so don't get used to the "my case is better" feeling), then why aren't you voting me with a burning passion?

[DemonHybrid]

EBWOP: Sorry, for a little, it sounded like an ISO of me.

Disregard my last post, I have a pretty nasty migraine atm.

[Far_Cry]

Oops, sorry. No, post 381 was an ISO of Nexus (read post 376.) Hope your migraine gets better.

[Far_Cry]

Why do I also feel that we have a ton of lurkers or inactive people? Here lets gets some activity going with a few questions:

1. What are your thoughts on Nexus? Noob town or scum?
2. Is sapo cleared town or not despite his claim?
3. What are your thoughts on our lurkers?
4. Anybody you can possibly link to singer?

[Thor665]

1. newb scum
2. He's claimed miller, that generally is considered a null move though I consider it slightly a town tell.
3. Only consider two players lurkerish. Consider nhamman town who happens to not be posting often and redtail as having flaked and needing replacement which makes the lurking not strategic in nature and therefore a null tell.
4. I consider both DH and Nexus pretty tightly woven in because of their support for the sarcasm case. I don't see it as likely for the partner to be the first voice of support however, which suggests DH is town who actually legitimately believed that case (Uf da!).

[Far_Cry]

Hmmmm..... so how suspicious are you of jimfinn at this point?

Also, are you sure redtail flaked? The last time he ever posted was 4 days ago. Don't know, he needs to be replaced anyways.

Here's an interesting note: according to Mastin's Insane Tells #1, he says that the last to confirm are more than likely scum. It's not something you can solidly base a case on, and is definitely not completely sound, but I find it interesting that the last three to confirm (singer, nexus, and jimfinn) are our top scum suspects (obviously singer is scum.)

[Thor665]

Less then Nexus, more then you. My first post of the day was about jimfinn or Nexus as the likely lynch - I'm currently weighing towards Nexus because a couple of players have stated town reads on jimfinn and nobody has dared to say so much about Nexus. Ergo, of my two top suspicions he's the top option.

If he needs to be replaced because he hasn't posted in a needed number of days then he flaked - that's pretty much the definition.

Are you advancing the Mastin tell, or are you just mentioning it for the sake of amusement?

[redtail896]

Am here. Some quick answers to the above questions:
1. Reread the Nexus ISO. As FC notes, kind of lackluster play (let the calls of hypocrite commence). One thing I noted though was FC calling Nexus's ISO 23 (the long one with reads on everybody) a "good post," and I'm not sure I can agree. It's a lot of IIoA, without taking any strong positions. In fact, I consider that post one of the more suspicious things that I could bring against Nexus. I don't know that I'm willing to vote for him quite yet though.

2. Sapo is not cleared town (nobody ever is), but for various reasons is not on my top list of suspects.

3. They are clearly scum and should be lynched.

4. Slightly defensive of Nexus, goes back and forth on FC, and I still don't like that DH vote against Thor right after singer presented a "case." But none of those are smoking guns by any means.

Re jimfinn: hasn't produced enough real content to make a case on; that alone might be enough for suspicion at this stage. His given reason for voting FC is actually the

worst

that I could come up with, and he hasn't really explained his case since then. Jimfinn: I'd like to see, from you, specific examples of the link between singer and Far Cry.

[Nexus]

Ok, ok, I take all your points against me, and yes, I've been lacklustre, but I'm still not the worst for it. Redtail and nhammen have been much worse, and you're letting nhammen skip free. Turns out, best way to get you guys onside is to do eff all.

Thor: The sarcasm was a case of I find it rather anti town, because sarcasm doesn't convey well over the internet, and so when I read your posts, I take them at face value. If you've added sarcasm, I'm going to miss it, and it looks scummy sometimes. No more, no less.

Far Cry: You are quite wrong. This isn't my first game as scum because, well...I'm not scum. So, hold your horses, k? I said I'd be happy with a you or jimfinn lynch because, at that moment, it didn't look like my scummier suspects were heading for the noose, so I was simply stating the two wagons and that I'm happy to jump on either of them.

Also, re: Singer. I've never had scum latch onto me like that before, so I didn't know the best way to defend myself. So, I came out and said the first thing that I thought might help.

But yes, I admit, I've been pretty poor in this game. However, you shouldn't be focussing on me. You've let jimfinn escape scot free without really having to defend himself. What was the point in the wagon, really?

[Nexus]

Also, I did say I was technically supposed to be v/la until today, I just wasn't entirely sure. Turns out I did end up having to stay away. I'll be back, properly involved this evening.

[Thor665]

Thor: The sarcasm was a case of I find it rather anti town, because sarcasm doesn't convey well over the internet, and so when I read your posts, I take them at face value. If you've added sarcasm, I'm going to miss it, and it looks scummy sometimes. No more, no less.

Either my sarcasm is understood by you to be sarcasm - in which case the above is you trying to redefine what your case on me was.
or
My sarcasm isn't understood to be sarcasm - in which case you never would have found me scummy for "sarcasm" you would have found me scummy for "saying scummy things", which you never said.

My vote is happy and will move in at its current location.

[Far_Cry]

Are you advancing the Mastin tell, or are you just mentioning it for the sake of amusement?

More for humor. I find it funny that it may be true in this game.

Am here. Some quick answers to the above questions:
1. Reread the Nexus ISO. As FC notes, kind of lackluster play (let the calls of hypocrite commence). One thing I noted though was FC calling Nexus's ISO 23 (the long one with reads on everybody) a "good post," and I'm not sure I can agree. It's a lot of IIoA, without taking any strong positions. In fact, I consider that post one of the more suspicious things that I could bring against Nexus. I don't know that I'm willing to vote for him quite yet though.

When I said Nexus's post was good, I mean't it was better than his previous posts (which sucked.) Not by any means was the analysis exhaustive or in-depth, but at least he tried, and I gave him points for that.

Ok, ok, I take all your points against me, and yes, I've been lacklustre, but I'm still not the worst for it. Redtail and nhammen have been much worse, and you're letting nhammen skip free. Turns out, best way to get you guys onside is to do eff all.

They have been much worse at what? They haven't posted much, but at least there was some content in their posts.

Far Cry: You are quite wrong. This isn't my first game as scum because, well...I'm not scum. So, hold your horses, k? I said I'd be happy with a you or jimfinn lynch because, at that moment, it didn't look like my scummier suspects were heading for the noose, so I was simply stating the two wagons and that I'm happy to jump on either of them.

I'm looking at it from a hypothetical stance. I'm saying if you are scum, this would be your first game as scum on this site.

Also, re: Singer. I've never had scum latch onto me like that before, so I didn't know the best way to defend myself. So, I came out and said the first thing that I thought might help.

Look, you can't always hang on to the newb game. I understand you don't have much experience, but you can't defend yourself by say, "I've never had that happen before."

But yes, I admit, I've been pretty poor in this game. However, you shouldn't be focussing on me. You've let jimfinn escape scot free without really having to defend himself. What was the point in the wagon, really?

That's why my vote is still on jimfinn. I also believe we let him off the hook. But why should we not focus on you? *Notes the weak attempt to get rid of suspicion.

Plus, before you stated you don't like redtail or nhammen. Then you said you would either jump on mine or jimfinn's wagon. So who are your top scum picks??

Anyways, Nexus is becoming a more and more convincing case. However, I'm not quite yet ready to vote for him yet (don't want to let off jimfinn.)

[ThAdmiral]

Only after being asked to a number of times did he state his reasoning:

Right, cause he waits on you hand and foot. Maybe he just wasn't around when you guys kept asking him.

False. He responded in between being asked a few times before finally giving a reason. A reason which was similar to one you had given.

Which is very similar to saying they had an "odd interaction" as it is the most obvious thing a scum pair would do if they were indeed a scum pair. Note he still hasn't provided any examples of this.

As far as examples go, I don't feel like bringing up every post. Neck deep in work at the moment, but singer and FC did that whole "I'm going to suspect you, argue with you a bit, but not go too deep into it and never vote you" tango. Only when the singer wagon took off did FC decide to jump on, which was a complete 180 from his earlier views: He went from agreeing with singer to "Well, the singer case seems valid, I guess. *vote*".

If you're not going to put in any effort then don't be surprised if people don't follow you.
As far as the "tango" theory goes I'm sure if you looked hard enough and creatively interpreted how people were interacting you could say that about just about anyone.

[ThAdmiral]

1. What are your thoughts on Nexus? Noob town or scum?
2. Is sapo cleared town or not despite his claim?
3. What are your thoughts on our lurkers?
4. Anybody you can possibly link to singer?

1. haven't decided yet.
2. not cleared but I believe him more likely town.
3. depends on the situation. As a general rule though I like it better when people talk.
4. probably but I doubt there would be any conviction behind a case I could make.

Concerning Nexus, I see the points you guys are giving about him. And I'm becoming more convinced that he is suspicious. However,

my only problem is that I feel that we just let jimfinn off the hook.

We built up a wagon against him, got him to L-1, and now we just let him go. It doesn't seem sense to me. I still feel that jimfinn is actively lurking.

Completely agree. If anything jimfinn has just gone further into his shell.

[saporovirus]

1. I'm leaning towards noob scum.
2. Weeeeell I think she's a good guy, but I'm a bit biased.
3. I was a bit lurky due to this being a crazy weekend. I think lurkers are kind of busy, except maybe nexus.
4. Just her sticking up for people, and that's starting to look like a sort of weak tell.

[nhammen]

I'm sorry, but I may have to ask for replacement. I'll find out soon, but I think I wont really be able to post even as much as the small amount I have been, for the next two weeks. And two week is too long for a V/LA. I'll try and find a replacement for myself when I have time, if it is needed. I was kinda hoping that grad school would not get in the way as much as it has. Maybe I can find someone who is willing to be only a temp replacement for the next two weeks. I'll see.

[Chevre]

Vote Count 10

(3) jimfinn (ThAdmiral, Nexus, Far_Cry)
(3) Far_Cry (DemonHybrid, jimfinn, saporovirus)
(2) Nexus (nhammen, Thor665)

(1) Not Voting (redtail896)

With

9

players alive, it takes

5

votes to lynch!
Prodding jimfinn.