Mini 1073: Autumn Mafia - Game Over!

[Xine]

Hello all.
Oso, Equinox, great to see you 2 again.
Shattered Viewpoint, hello to you too, I don't recall being familiar with you though... and also, as far as I'm concerned, RVS can be over as soon as you find a reason to vote someone.

1) What is your timezone? This can be important if you live overseas and we're waiting for a post from you.
I live in the PST time zone (is that what you meant by PDT?)
2) What is your mafia experience, here and elsewhere?
this is my 4th mafia game ever, all have been on this site
3) How frequently do you expect to be able to post? This is exceptionally important this game.
usually once per day, maybe more, I am working 9-5 right now, so either before or after work are my posting times

I may not be able to give my full level of analysis that I provide in most of my games, simply because there won't be enough time to do so. I'll do the best I can with what I get.

this seems like a set up for future excuses, and strikes me as scummy.
what strikes me as even more scummy is Llamarble's opportunistic third vote on Oso
VOTE: Llamarble

[Xine]

I am female, My name, Xine, is just a shortend form of Chistine, and the avatar is actually an image of me that DGB created in stained glass.
are you male or female?
Zinive, is that 3:20 am, or pm?

[Xine]

So far, Oso gets a quick little wagon, doesn’t seem to particularly notice, until other players bring it up. Llamarble gets one vote, and a few players mention amiability towards the reason, yet don't place vote, and Llamarble feels the need to self defend as if he were the subject of a wagon.

Also, Netlava places a random vote on Oso, for "being ansty" and "antsy could describe the tone of every one of his posts since then.

[Xine]

First I want to address things directed at me.
Sometimes I post a "recap" In the morning especially, (pre coffee) If I feel unclear about what is going on, or just unclear how to phrase a question. It let's you all know that I am still here and what I'm thinking about, and gives anyone the opportunity to correct me on false assumptions. The other options for play style sound lovely, and I will currently try to do those things as well.

Shattered: I have yet to play as scum.

Llamarble: I agree that content is good, perhaps that's why your just-a-vote stood out so much to me????

Also, Netlava places a random vote on Oso, for "being ansty" and "antsy could describe the tone of

every one

of his posts since then.

My main objection here is that while I could see someone describing my overall posting style as "antsy," saying that every single post I've made is "antsy" feels like slightly inaccurate rhetoric.

I apologize, I just ran an Iso for you, and found the one exception to that statement:

Questions:
Timezone- Pacific
Experience- a lot
Post frequency- often

I stand corrected
(Ice, you disagree with me here, how would you describe his other posts?)

FeRnAnDo

are we still on RVS? i think so. then i'll VOTE: Netlava, for making 4 posts in a row with that scary avatar

I don't think it was "still RVS" at the time you posted this, and I really don't think it still is. assuming you believe this to be true, does your vote remain where it is, or move? to who, and why?

I'm better than all of you, and the sooner you realize that and treat me as such, the easier this game will be.
I refuse to participate in Random Voting, so let me know when you're done with that.

Shattered apparently thinks he's somebody special

Alternate (closer to reality) answer: I'm an insufferable asshole.

some of the coolest people I've ever met are, but most of them turned out to be scum

[Xine]

Zinive, How long do you feel is appropriate to wait between a vote and an unvote?

Llamarble: Scum list like that IMO are a play style thing. I do not feel comfortable posting that much information about my town reads myself, but have no particular issue with you doing it. What I do have issue with is when you, or anyone, asks others to do the same thing. I see scum saying…’hey everyone, who should I night kill, and who can I push a mislynch on.’ Btw, you have the creepiest avatar I have ever seen, props.

Side note, when I said I post at least once a day, I had not registered what BAM was, count on me for at least 2 posts per rl day.

[Xine]

UNVOTE:
gotta run to work, llamarble is at least acting in a fairly pro town fashion, don't want my vote on him anymore

[Xine]

I do agree that Xine's question about how long to wait before unvoting is a little strange
@Xine: Could you explain the aim of that question?

It was in response to this:

My vote on Llamarble would be because of his vote hoping.

[Xine]

PerArdua:
Are you lurking because you are scum?
Who is the scum?
Do you think that hypocrisy is a scum tell?


Oso: given the assumption that a lurker will just be mod killed why does that mean that we don’t have to worry about it? What if we lose town to a mod kill, and lynch a fairly active town player too. Mathematically speaking wouldn’t it be nice to lose only one town player

[Xine]

VOTE: cruelty

I really like to have my vote in play at all times, so it is obv where my suspisions are.
There is something that bugs me about Iceninja's wagon. I need to do more meta reasearch on him this evening. I will comment on other stuff later too.

Equinox: you are back from V/La yesterday? I have confidance you can read this and get some good input to us in the next few hours.

[Xine]

Cruelty: Is What level of information sharing to you feel comfortable with? I ask because your current vote is related to that.

Equinox: Hi there, nice wall
That’s fascinating about PerAudua, I’m gonna go check that out

ICEninja: do you suppose aggression is a scum tell

Netlava: I notice you are riding a fine line between active and not. 4 posts in a row, but total less content the one average post from anybody else, for example. Interesting place to be considering your opinion about activity as a scum tell.

[Xine]

It does look like it's true of shattered's meta that he is probabbly town in this game

[Xine]

How do I do links?
@Oso:
I don't specifically care about the number three.
...
The entire paragraph from my post 100 containing the statement about me and Ice is a discussion of playstyle in answer to a question from M=W.
Obviously, if a person always uses the same playstyle the fact that they're using that playstyle is a null tell, so I don't imply Ice is town in that post.

I think that resolves both of the situations where you thought I contradicted myself.

I think this part of Llam's response got glazed over in the huge discussion of the third vote...
Llam implies here that, at this time, he believed Ice to be scum (as evidenced by his vote) and was simply mentioning a null tell.
Firstly, I cannot see any reason he would mention Ice at all in response to said 'question about playstyle'

Where has zinive "logically jumped on someone"? And how does that make it harder to read us?

‘us’ here is in reference to Llam’s post in #91

Oso, Xine, M=W and to a lesser extent Zinive have all stayed fairly aloof and logically jumped on a few players.
It's hard to read that sort of playstyle, but so far the cases made have been worth making.

His response to M=W’s question, in post #100 is almost the same wording:

@M=W:
Zinive hasn't really jumped on anyone, and Xine hasn't done so to the extent of you and Oso,
but like you and Oso they have mostly been aloof and reasonable.
It's hard to read because you've all acted in a basically pro-town fashion
but in a way that I don't think it would be difficult for a scum to emulate.
Essentially you're all playing pretty well but your playstyles mask alignment easily.
Ice and I sort of "dove into the trenches" earlier with some reachy accusations to get the ball rolling,
Which provides additional opportunity to read us.

Which is pro-town, right? Other then to point that out, why would you even mention it?

Also in post 91:

@Ice:
Your attitude toward Shattered makes more sense to me after a night of sleep;
If you never found him scummy, but merely irritating, then it makes more sense to leave him alone.
My impression was that you thought his actions scummy but were avoiding a hunt anyway.
The tone of that paragraph still bothers me though.
Making a decision whether to pursue someone based on anything other than the evidence against them feels like a scum thought process.

This implies that he has changed his mind about his suspicion already ^^^ confirmed in post #100

Also in post #91:

@Shattered:
If you think he's town then why is your vote still on him

Here we go with contradictions again
VOTE: Llarmarble

[Xine]

I love how exreemly overly deffensive you are Llam is getting too. he is so scum. another thing thathas set my scum-dar off with him is that he feels the need to constantly reitterate the idea that his play style makes him easy to read. I don't see that town would feel the need to point this out.

[Xine]

Equinox, are you male or female?
deadline in 4 days
I could move my vote to fernando, or Netlava.

[Xine]

Hey, only quick post.
Net: Sorry you didn't understand my attack on Llam, he did, and countered all my points, so try reading it again if you really want to know, It's all there. I am not moving my vote, because Llam still seems scummiest to me.
I am keenly interested in this new wagon, and am getting to see Zin as scum. I will check in briefly tomorrow, I will be pretty busy though.

[Xine]

VOTE: Fernando
Cuz he's scum

[Xine]

As far as cutting our losses, by lynching lurkers, I must say that mathematically it is sound, but the correct play is always to lynch scum. In this case, (Fernando) I believe we are doing both.

[Xine]

I think you should post it. Necessary or not, I'd like to see what you wrote, and since this is an ongoing game, I only feel comfertable reading it in thread.

[Xine]

I thought you were impying that you would PM it to any interested party. Living with another scummer I am hyper aware of the "no discussing ongoing games" rule. If that's not what you ment...oops

[Xine]

I very much agree that this situation is looking a bit dire.

Ice

on day one you said that this game would open up when we had some dead bodies to annylize, here is a picture of each of these bodies at the moment of their largest wagons:

Shattered Viewpoint

(2) -

FeRnAnDo

,

Zinive

Zinive

(6) - ICEninja, Me=Weird, Equinox, Antihero, Oso, Llamarble

FeRnAnDo

(7) - netlava, Llamarble, ICEninja, Xine, Me=Weird, Antihero, Oso

lots of bodies, let's get some annalisis!
based on place on these wagons, I'm gonna say
VOTE: Antihero

[Xine]

Exinox, Are you trying to imply that Llamarble somehow knew that Fernando was a cop?

[Xine]

my general impression of Llamarble is that he posts so "cleverly" as to be barely understandable, making sure to mention often that he is town, and has a transparent play style. One would have to run an in depth analysis to determine any sort of statistical data on said pattern.

Nija Equinox: Obv, I wasn't. False sense of confidance I guess...His posts were scummy, both of them.

[Xine]

You are really upset about this vote. I made a gut move, based on the imression I got from viewing some data. you only need to fear this if you are guilty, right?

[Xine]

sorry to disappoint you Llamarble. I am here, finally.

If people don't agree with me, I'll probably actually go back and make a case on this

I would be honored if you would

I didn't actually find much new and interesting beyond what I posted before, which I'll repeat here:
1.Oso and Xine have showed some teamwork; both of them went after me yesterday with similar cases.
2.Xine pointed out that Oso's wagon wasn't bothering him in a way that made it sound like she was trying to set him up as innocent.
3.Xine went after Antihero for similar behavior to Oso's and has largely ignored suspicion directed at Oso.
4.Xine's "look at him defending himself, he's totally scum" post sounded like evil cackling to me.

And I'll repeat it, yet again...
I see that Oso bambozzled me pretty well. in addition to that,
1.ah yes, the case over contradictions. I don't see any reason to not question apparent contradictions, do you?
2.post # 36, If I recall correctly, you looked really bad, launching a self defense crusade when you had one vote on you.
3.Scum seemed less likely to hammer, slightly. I presented a vote count, I made a gut read based on presentation, invited the town to consider said information with me, and I think the question I presented help you put the pieces together while I disappeared into RL for a few days
4.

You are really upset about this vote. I made a gut move, based on the impression I got from viewing some data. you only need to fear this if you are guilty, right?

is what I said. when I was the only one voting him, and almost no support for his wagon. who would cackle at that point? This was actually a question, note the question mark...?...I have learned enough about this game to not expect my questions to be answered, but it was decidedly an invitation to answer.

[Xine]

one more thing? Llamarble, did you just ask me to claim at L-3?

[Xine]

I see nobody has CC Llama, which sucks, because he was my only scum read. My claim=Vanilla Townie. I want Netopalis to go next.

[Xine]

I really have nothing to say that could be convincing, other then to repeat my claim. I would like to see the game not end today, so I would hope to not be lynched. while we are waiting, Ice, would you post that case on me, I'd like to see it so I can take a few lessons with me from this extreemly poorly played game.

[Xine]

My re-read gave me one more suspect. Netopalis, but, I think I'll wait for all the claims to come in before I go flinging around votes
Icenija:
you are an intellectual tease, and also,

you are willing to cast a vote in mylo, but not willing to present a case on the person you are voting for.

really? perhaps I should look at you as a suspect too? hmm... I'll consider that.

[Xine]

good effort Llamarble, but most of that post was based on the assumption that I am scum, and about to be lynched. the former is not true, so, assuming the latter happens, there won't be another day to worry about it.