Mini 1070 The Godfather:Hunt for Sollozzo (GAME!)

[RedCoyote]

@RedCoyote - you're seriously advancing as a theory that scumFG declared in thread "I'mma just support that highest bandwagon!" and that this action is scummy? Pretty much every game opener I've done in the past half year I've used the exact same logic and my first vote is always to the highest wagon (unless I'm the highest, natch) - what's so scummy about that at that stage of the game?

So, should we all just pile on Exilon then? He's a popular vote getter, so he must be scum? Why aren't you voting him?

[Thor665]

Amazing, you responded with a mix of sarcasm and set up a straw man all in one go. Do you really think it's so unreasonable of me to ask you to explain why you think something you're calling scummy was scummy? Do you think his stated lynch plan is really identical to the example you just provided?

[Katsuki]

I never should've unvoted.

Vote: RC

As for SC, since he gave us the offer pg6 I think, what are your opinions on far_Cry, bub and zajnet?

Not voting far_cry at the moment as I want wait for replacement and hearing what he/she has to say.

[Zajnet]

@RedCoyote - you're seriously advancing as a theory that scumFG declared in thread "I'mma just support that highest bandwagon!" and that this action is scummy? Pretty much every game opener I've done in the past half year I've used the exact same logic and my first vote is always to the highest wagon (unless I'm the highest, natch) - what's so scummy about that at that stage of the game?

So, should we all just pile on Exilon then? He's a popular vote getter, so he must be scum? Why aren't you voting him?

I

really

don't like this. I think its time to oil up that rusty vote that I haven't used yet all game.

VOTE: RedCoyote

[Wingless]

@RedCoyote - you're seriously advancing as a theory that scumFG declared in thread "I'mma just support that highest bandwagon!" and that this action is scummy? Pretty much every game opener I've done in the past half year I've used the exact same logic and my first vote is always to the highest wagon (unless I'm the highest, natch) - what's so scummy about that at that stage of the game?

So, should we all just pile on Exilon then? He's a popular vote getter, so he must be scum? Why aren't you voting him?

Why do you protect him?

[Andrius]

Antihero replaces Far_Cry, effective immediately. (That was pretty fast. Yay!)

[Antihero]

/confirm

Hi RC, Kat, and pacman.

Catchup coming soon!

[Exilon]

Sorry for not posting, I haven't been in condition to do so. << In any case, I'll try to post something substantial once I'm feeling a bit better (which shouldn't take long.)

[Andrius]

Votecount 1.6

"I thought I got all you guinea hoods locked up!" - Captain Mark McCluskey

StrangerCoug (1): bv310
bv310 (1): pacman281292
pacman281292 (1): FakeGod
Thor665 (1): RedCoyote
Exilon (3): Far_Cry, StrangerCoug, Wingless
Bud Bidderskins (1): Exilon
RedCoyote (3): Thor665, Katsuki, Zajnet
Far_Cry (1): Bub Bidderskins

Not Voting (0): ---

With 12 alive it takes 7 to gun someone down.
Deadline is set at October 31st, at 5:00pm PST.

Hooray for everyone voting someone!

[StrangerCoug]

I never should've unvoted.

Vote: RC

As for SC, since he gave us the offer pg6 I think, what are your opinions on far_Cry, bub and zajnet?

Not voting far_cry at the moment as I want wait for replacement and hearing what he/she has to say.

Far_Cry requires a reread before I have a stance on him and Bub Bidderskins is OK for now. Zajnet's most recent post bothers me because he voted RedCoyote for making what comes off to me as a sarcastic post, so I'm leaning scum on him for now.

[StrangerCoug]

EBWOP: Looking at Far_Cry in ISO reminded me that I gave him a minor FoS for a Mr. Big Mouth-type post. That's my only problem with him, though.

[FakeGod]

@RedCoyote - you're seriously advancing as a theory that scumFG declared in thread "I'mma just support that highest bandwagon!" and that this action is scummy? Pretty much every game opener I've done in the past half year I've used the exact same logic and my first vote is always to the highest wagon (unless I'm the highest, natch) - what's so scummy about that at that stage of the game?

So, should we all just pile on Exilon then? He's a popular vote getter, so he must be scum? Why aren't you voting him?

You're attempting to apply RVS logic on to general mafia play. It does not follow.

[Antihero]

Obligatory UNVOTE:

1st page is pregame discussion about the movie. I'll write it off.

Page 2:
Yeah, it's kind of obvious there's nothing to go on, but Thor's heart is in the right place. zajnet pooh-poohing that as an "overreaction" and calling everything a "nulltell" without giving an alternative = scummy
Fakegod, did zajnet's reaction really satisfy you? And your "I'll put my vote on the highest wagon after Andy gives us a VC" = yikes!

Page 3:
Post 51 Fakegod - I see a random floating generality, without anything telling me how it applies to pacman or what happened on the previous page. More scumpoints for you.
SC's vote doesn't make any sense.
Post 67 SC - You didn't answer Thor's question of where the scum motivation is. The last sentence implies you think Thor is scummy, but you don't say what the scumtell is. Scumpoints for you.
Post 72 SC - I thought Thor's case on pacman was supposed to end the RVS (which I personally think should be very short).
Post 73 Kat - I'm hoping you deliver on this.

Page 4:
Post 82 Fakegod - Combines fencesitting with active lurking. More scumpoints for you.
I've read post 87 multiple times and I'm still not following Exilon's logic. However, I disagree with my replacee's assessment of his play, I think Exilon's heart is in the right place.
...and the active lurking continues from Fakegod.
Post 94 RC - Now, exilon calling you out on rolefishing was legit. I'm not sure what you're getting bent out of shape about.

Page 5:
I'm going to join the chorus of people saying RC's "pressure vote" is crap. Scumpoints for RC
Post 122 - pacman has provided content? Really? It seems like the only thing he's been doing so far is defending himself.

Page 6:
...and the active lurking by FakeGod continues...

I was so close...
My eyes are starting to glaze over. I'll pick up on this tomorrow when I'm well rested.

[Bub Bidderskins]

unvote

to give the replacement a chance.

[FakeGod]

And your "I'll put my vote on the highest wagon after Andy gives us a VC" = yikes!

Explain.

[RedCoyote]

Hey Antihero. Please bring a little common sense to this game with you. I'm being assaulted from all sides.

---

Amazing, you responded with a mix of sarcasm and set up a straw man all in one go. Do you really think it's so unreasonable of me to ask you to explain why you think something you're calling scummy was scummy? Do you think his stated lynch plan is really identical to the example you just provided?

Look, the point I'm making is that, "I'm going to support the highest wagon" is surely not optimal play. I'm not sure why it is you're breaking up the game into stages. That's not a random vote (it's clearly aimed at whoever is the most popular vote getter), and it's not an independent vote either. What "stage" do you feel this comment would be appropriate in?

I do find it scummy. For you to sit here and write it off as "something you do", is that supposed to make me feel better about him?

---

Why do you protect him?

Explain what you mean.

---

You're attempting to apply RVS logic on to general mafia play. It does not follow.

Voting for the highest bandwagon is a random vote, FG?

---

Now, exilon calling you out on rolefishing was legit. I'm not sure what you're getting bent out of shape about.

Explain why. He said he had a role that would get him killed. I asked why he said that. Where's the rolefishing? I think you're skimming over the issue a bit.

[Thor665]

Look, the point I'm making is that, "I'm going to support the highest wagon" is surely not optimal play. I'm not sure why it is you're breaking up the game into stages. That's not a random vote (it's clearly aimed at whoever is the most popular vote getter), and it's not an independent vote either. What "stage" do you feel this comment would be appropriate in?

I do find it scummy. For you to sit here and write it off as "something you do", is that supposed to make me feel better about him?

Is it surely not optimal play? Personally I think supporting the highest bandwagon in RVS is fairly optimal for a couple of reasons. Why isn't it optimal play - and moreso, why is it scummy?
I feel in RVS it is appropriate. i feel on Day 2 it isn't. Somewhere in between is when the shift happens.
For me to "write it off as something I do"

should

make you at least wonder, because either I am scum blatantly lying to protect my partner or I am town who legitimately sees his actions as not a scum tell because it's something I do as town.

Again - explain why scum would be more likely to do this then town.
What was the scum motivation for his act?

[RedCoyote]

I don't understand your conclusion. How is that random in anyway? There's clearly a stated purpose to it. Whoever is getting the most votes will get mine in addition.

I honestly don't understand where either of you are coming from. FG's comment wasn't even during the RVS. To wit, FG criticized me about how the RVS was over. He even did that one better, he actually said it was anti-town to try and extend it. Then he turns around and tells Bub that he wants to build a bandwagon right away.

I think you're in an untenable position here, Thor. Either you should explain how a so-called random vote is random when FG comes out and says that there's a purpose behind it, or you'll have to explain why it's a good idea to appeal to popularity with your D1 vote.

To be more blunt, the scum motivation behind this is FG is hypocritically throwing around positions about what he thinks is anti-town and what's not. I think it's safe to assume that we have a player here who is playing fast and loose with his principles. This indicates to me that we have someone who is trying to act town instead of actually

being

town.

[Thor665]

To be more blunt, the scum motivation behind this is FG is hypocritically throwing around positions about what he thinks is anti-town and what's not.

RVS isn't random, it's just called that. You're silly.
I'm drunk and sleepy, I'll check in tomorrow and see if this somehow makes more sense then.
I sort of doubt it will.
I will say this whole position seems so silly that I might be leaning RedCoyote town at this stage, this feels like newbie insanity to me.

[FakeGod]

@RC: I don't know what your definition of RVS logic is, but my definition of RVS logic is something you go by in early game as a conversation starter and/or something that would get you additional info later on. (for example, if bandwagon was built, it would give town information)

Explain how voting for the highest wagon is not RVS logic.

and you misrepped me. I didn't criticize you because RVS was over. That doesn't even make sense.

I clearly said that you were trying to lengthen RVS, which is clearly anti-town.

And I'm not "throwing around positions about what I think is anti-town or not." Again, you're misrepping my position.

Since I sincerely believe in my position, I'm ready to argue against you for my position.

If you wish to tell me that lengthening RVS isn't anti-town, go right ahead. I'll argue back.

You're misrepping things left and right. Only reason my vote isn't on you is because

this feels like newbie insanity to me.

[Wingless]

Why do you protect him?

Explain what you mean.

Your irony sounded like you were protecting him.

[Thor665]

Mmmm, neutral about FG parroting my stance from my last post, especially since it was a late night post evening with the guys post so there's no way it's *that* brilliant.

RedCoyote still seems insane, he obviously believes what he's peddling but I'm having a hard time sussing out whether it is being advanced as scum or town logic. FG certainly seems like a functionally obvious mislynch candidate due to the way he's playing, but to be advancing a scumtell like that I almost wonder if RC is the type of scum to lead a case and try to push it on a VI. I'm mildly supporting FG just because of how StrangerCoug is reacting towards him as well, might need to do a shift to Coug to see if that makes more sense to me.

@Bub - I'll spare you the usual 'why give replacement's a chance if you think their slot is scummy' spiel (though I agree with it ) and will instead request that you weigh in with your thoughts on RC and/or FG since I don't think you've commented there yet. Your last post was pretty much pointless and I want more out of you.

[Thor665]

Actually - nix the StrangerCoug stuff in the above post, on re-read his comments make more sense.

[RedCoyote]

RVS isn't random, it's just called that. You're silly.

I don't know what to say to you here, Thor. Unless you're one of those, "there's no such thing as a random vote" people, then I don't see how we can continue this discussion. If I can't even get you to acknowledge that there is such a thing as a random vote and one that isn't, then we're just at fundamentally different ends of the theoretical spectrum here. You seem like a rational person, so I honestly don't see where the disconnect here is. I don't think I could be more clear on my position, and I think it's piercingly valid. I'll concede that my case is a stretch, but it's no more a stretch than any early D1 vote, especially given the fact that 3 or 4 of our players haven't really given us anything in a few days, and one hasn't really posted at all yet.

---

Explain how voting for the highest wagon is not RVS logic.

and you misrepped me. I didn't criticize you because RVS was over. That doesn't even make sense.

I clearly said that you were trying to lengthen RVS, which is clearly anti-town.

And I'm not "throwing around positions about what I think is anti-town or not." Again, you're misrepping my position.

Since I sincerely believe in my position, I'm ready to argue against you for my position.

If you wish to tell me that lengthening RVS isn't anti-town, go right ahead. I'll argue back.

You're missing the point, big man. It has nothing to do with what you or I think about RVS.

Appealing to popularity is blatantly unrandom.

"I vote John because my quarter told me to" is random, "I'm voting whoever has the most votes when I get back" isn't. If you can't even acknowledge that, then we can't have any form of reasonable discussion here.

---

FG certainly seems like a functionally obvious mislynch candidate due to the way he's playing, but to be advancing a scumtell like that I almost wonder if RC is the type of scum to lead a case and try to push it on a VI.

It's too easy to write candidates off like that. I'm sure you've played with actual VI's before, FG doesn't strike me that way (no one here does, even Exilon is a million times better than a player like drmyshottyizsick or millar13).

[StrangerCoug]

SC's vote doesn't make any sense.
Post 67 SC - You didn't answer Thor's question of where the scum motivation is. The last sentence implies you think Thor is scummy, but you don't say what the scumtell is. Scumpoints for you.

I thought the post made it clear that I didn't like Thor665 voting someone for a null tell.