Open 258 --- Night Watch --- Game Over

[jasonT1981]

fuck quad post..

follow up question, jason, you feel that Hop is scummy enough to leave him at -1 in the face of the claim?

With the claim, I think the removal of vote was probably the better move. I am weary of lynching claimed Power roles, if he had claimed VT then maybe I would have been easier with him still being at -1. But I think Shotty is the best lynch for today because of this post I made when I voted. I will link to it as the quote is big and I don't want to create text walls. Pay attention to the bolded at the bottom near the vote.. I think that is cruical evidence against Shotty

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 7#p2586587

Andrew is my 2nd choice of best lynch.

EBYOP: Why did you think Shotty would be targeted by Mafia?

I don't know, seems awful convienient you targetted him in the night and now are pushing for his lynch, unless you know something we don't?

[PogoStick]

Am I pushing his lynch? Hmm I just thought I had voted for him, which is not the same as pushing for him to be lynched.

Also just cause the person I watched didn't die doesn't clear them as being town

I only recognize 3 names in this games so basically it came down to picking one of the 3. I picked him cause we just won together as maf so his name was freshest. I didn't think mafia would target Andrew as he is typically an easy lynch in games.

[curiouskarmadog]

of all the people "to be targetted by mafia"..I would think he would be the last...but if you just won with him, i guess it makes sense.

[andrew94]

hoponmyjoystick is NOT a watcher

he is 'vanilla'

[nameloc1986]

hoponmyjoystick is NOT a watcher

he is 'vanilla'

So you're trying to claim role cop? hmm........

Watcher is kind of a easy claim since there two of them. I'm catching up on what I've missed now.

[jasonT1981]

hoponmyjoystick is NOT a watcher

he is 'vanilla'

Given your track record... forgive me for not taking you 100% at your word.. Also, answer my question, Andrew please.

Also, if you are right, and you are in knowledge of JS role being 'Vinilla', why would a townie claim watcher if he was VT? I see no possible reason for VT to fake claim watcher as it could lead to others being outted as watcher and screwing the town over.

I am lead to believe your making crap up again.

[nameloc1986]

So reading back, nameloc seems to have some sort of weird connection with shotty, first says he gets town read than an idiot read

WTF? So I have an apparent connection with anyone I get a town read off of? I guess this is one big food fight of spaghetti then.

he admits to helping Andrew out by saying he is an idiot and cause he is lynched early day 1, which is really a different approach I took in saying we should not lynch Andrew day 1

I'm not denying this is true, but I was trying to caution everybody just like you were. I didn't want to vote for him just because of scummy/odd behavior when he has a history of being a VI.

he than goes after anti-hero and votes him but I don't understand his reasons why

Because I just thought his way of asking Jason a question and then saying he was suspicious for his answer was almost like a trap. I know it was weak but it was just something that bugged me.

as soon as I question shotty about his vote and not responding to my question, he starts making excuses for him
his post 33 he just copies other people's questions

I was not making excuses. I was just as curious about his absence as you were so I checked up on it. I explained why he might have been absent, but also said that I didn't know what it meant. I'm not sure how you get the idea that I was defending him.

his post 35, he says "the reason WE ask" as if letting it slip he is working together with shotty and anti-hero

WE as in I wasn't the only one to ask. And why do you say "shotty" and not BAZZ? Don't you mean BAZZ and antihero?

he also doesn't feel shotty seeming so sure it's a mis-lynch as being scummy, yet when I repeat his wording I am scummy

I explained this in my post#37. You both said the word "mislynch" but he said "while we can afford a mislynch" while you said "use the mislynch now". I get two different reads off this quote.

seems like nameloc is working with shotty or at least buddying him

point out the posts where I am buddying with him. The only thing that supports this is my "early town read" on him. In the whole mislynch thing, I don't DENY that shotty is scum, but that your words look scummier.

also tries to immediatly discredit Andrew so any suspicions cast on him are thrown out for being VI

You're right. I was probably quick to call andrew a VI. I guess it was because of frustration with my last game with him. Since its ongoing I can't reference it, but you should know because you're in that game!

[Antihero]

I watched shotty last night actually, I just felt like if he was town, he would be targeted by mafia

LOL

shotty, you're cool and I like you, and I'm not trying to be mean. But Joystick, you honestly think shotty (assuming he's town) would be the prime target for a N0 mafia kill?

I only recognize 3 names in this games so basically it came down to picking one of the 3. I picked him cause we just won together as maf so his name was freshest. I didn't think mafia would target Andrew as he is typically an easy lynch in games.

Who was the third?

Also, if you are right, and you are in knowledge of JS role being 'Vinilla', why would a townie claim watcher if he was VT? I see no possible reason for VT to fake claim watcher as it could lead to others being outted as watcher and screwing the town over.

According to the sign up thread, mafia goons show up as "vanilla" to the role cop.

However, I still think you're correct that andrew is fakeclaiming.

1 Role Cop --- Investigates someone. Will get a yes if the person is a Watcher or Hider, no if the person is vanilla town or a goon

Andrew specifically mentioned "vanilla." That doesn't follow the style of results smashbro seems to be giving.

@MOD: Does the Role Cop get a specific role (e.g. Watcher, Hider, Vanilla) or does he get a yes or no?

Still not liking CKD.

[nameloc1986]

I'd like to add to the case on Nameloc.

I think he is reaching for reasons to vote.

When he voted for antihero, he questioned him about questioning Jason for jumping Shotty's wagon, and when he voted for Joystick, he did so because he interprets Joystick's statement: "... use the mislynch now" as a scumslip. Now, taken literally, and out of context, it might be a scumslip. But in context, it doesn't seem that bad to me, especially considering how Joystick is acting.

Vote Nameloc

Aren't we all "reaching for reasons" though? No one knows for sure who's scum so we all have to do scumhunting.

[jasonT1981]

Ah ok, I didnt see the roles listed in the start of the game which is how most mods do it... I guess if the watcher gets vinilla on a goon then Andrew could be telling the truth. I say Could given his past.

He still needs to answer my first question.. and now a 2nd

Andrew, what made you investigate Joystick?

[nameloc1986]

UNVOTE: Joystick

Watcher is an easy fake claim for a scum, but I'll buy it..........for now.

[Antihero]

What exactly has andrew done? Claimed doc as VT once? I know a few people who have done that.

Is his track record w/ fakeclaiming really that bad? Depending on smashbro's answer to the question, there's no reason to not believe andrew AFAIK.

[Antihero]

BTW, scumspectrum

(Town)ooBAZZoo---nameloc1986---Dry-fit---jasonT1981---Zdenek---drmyshottyizsik---andrew94---curiouskarmadog---2003041---HopOnMyJoystick(Scum)

[jasonT1981]

What exactly has andrew done? Claimed doc as VT once? I know a few people who have done that.

Is his track record w/ fakeclaiming really that bad? Depending on smashbro's answer to the question, there's no reason to not believe andrew AFAIK.

I think these two posts answer your question.. it looks like more than once. I could have sworn there was a post from him saying he only has done it once as scum, and in 75% of the time... but I cant see that post on an ISO.

@jason i have forgetton the exact number of times i fakeclaimed for the greater good

make case on jason later...

I don't really think Anti-Hero 'jumped' on me as it has been put. He asked a question of me nothing more, however I explained my reasons.

Andrew, out of all these games you have been lynched on day 1.... whats your scum/town ratio IE how many times have you been scum and how many times have you been town.. And how many times have you fake claimed, as town?

all town, once scum.

fakeclaimed about the same amounts as davidparker

[jasonT1981]

I don't really think Anti-Hero 'jumped' on me as it has been put. He asked a question of me nothing more, however I explained my reasons.

Andrew, out of all these games you have been lynched on day 1.... whats your scum/town ratio IE how many times have you been scum and how many times have you been town.. And how many times have you fake claimed, as town?

all town, once scum.

fakeclaimed about the same amounts as davidparker

shut up!!
You fake claim in 75% of your games

OK my mistake, it was Shotty said the 75% thing, not Andrew himself.

[Zdenek]

sry for triple post Zden and jason, why did neither of you ask who he targetted last night?

I'd started writing my post earlier and saw both your post and Joystick's post in separate previews. By the I finally posted it, I was in a hurry and not thinking carefully.

Antihero, you go from this:

However, I still think you're correct that andrew is fakeclaiming.

to this

What exactly has andrew done? Claimed doc as VT once? I know a few people who have done that.

Is his track record w/ fakeclaiming really that bad? Depending on smashbro's answer to the question, there's no reason to not believe andrew AFAIK.

from one post to the next?

hoponmyjoystick is NOT a watcher

he is 'vanilla'

I am willing to believe this even though Andrew's meta says that he fakeclaims. When he does it, isn't it to take a night kill when he is a VT to save a PR, rather than trying to get a townie lynched?

[Zdenek]

Aren't we all "reaching for reasons" though? No one knows for sure who's scum so we all have to do scumhunting.

I just don't like what you came up with in those instances.

[Antihero]

What exactly has andrew done? Claimed doc as VT once? I know a few people who have done that.

Is his track record w/ fakeclaiming really that bad? Depending on smashbro's answer to the question, there's no reason to not believe andrew AFAIK.

This is dependent on smashbro saying "vanilla, watcher, hider," by the way. If smashbro says "yes or no" andrew is fakeclaiming.

[nameloc1986]

Aren't we all "reaching for reasons" though? No one knows for sure who's scum so we all have to do scumhunting.

I just don't like what you came up with in those instances.

Fair enough.

[nameloc1986]

I am willing to believe this even though Andrew's meta says that he fakeclaims. When he does it, isn't it to take a night kill when he is a VT to save a PR, rather than trying to get a townie lynched?

But you run the risk of the real "PR" to counterclaim which might make people assume Andrew is scum. If he gets lynched for it, then the real "PR" will get targeted for nightkill and you lose TWO townies AND a valuable PR.

[nameloc1986]

So if Andrew is VT and he just "fakeclaimed" RC, he just risked the counterclaim of the "real" RC. The fact that Andrew has faked claimed at least once before goes to show that he's capable of doing it again. "Stupid is as stupid does." We need to be really careful with this and how we handle it.

[Zdenek]

I am willing to believe this even though Andrew's meta says that he fakeclaims. When he does it, isn't it to take a night kill when he is a VT to save a PR, rather than trying to get a townie lynched?

But you run the risk of the real "PR" to counterclaim which might make people assume Andrew is scum. If he gets lynched for it, then the real "PR" will get targeted for nightkill and you lose TWO townies AND a valuable PR.

I'm not 100% sure what you mean. I am not saying that Andrew is making a good play if he is fake claiming.

To people more experienced with Andrew's meta: when he fake claims is it when he is at L-1 or does he do it at any time? Would he be willing to risk getting a townie killed just to fake claim?

[smashbro_of_the_SSS]

1 Role Cop --- Investigates someone. Will get a yes if the person is a Watcher or Hider, no if the person is vanilla town or a goon

Andrew specifically mentioned "vanilla." That doesn't follow the style of results smashbro seems to be giving.

@MOD: Does the Role Cop get a specific role (e.g. Watcher, Hider, Vanilla) or does he get a yes or no?

Role Cop receives either "yes, he/she is a power role (which is Watcher or Hider)" or "no, he/she is not a power role (which is vanilla town or mafia goon)". If yes, the Role Cop will not be told if the person is Watcher or Hider, and if no, the Role Cop will not be told if the person is VT or a Goon.

[jasonT1981]

What exactly has andrew done? Claimed doc as VT once? I know a few people who have done that.

Is his track record w/ fakeclaiming really that bad? Depending on smashbro's answer to the question, there's no reason to not believe andrew AFAIK.

This is dependent on smashbro saying "vanilla, watcher, hider," by the way. I

f smashbro says "yes or no" andrew is fakeclaiming

.

Role Cop receives either "yes, he/she is a power role (which is Watcher or Hider)" or "no, he/she is not a power role (which is vanilla town or mafia goon)

". If yes, the Role Cop will not be told if the person is Watcher or Hider, and if no, the Role Cop will not be told if the person is VT or a Goon.

Actually, as much as I have been thinking Andrew is scum, your analysis (the bolded) is wrong..

If Andrew is being truthful he recieves a yes or no he can still be telling the truth here..

If he got a no result from the mod on JS like he says he did, that means the person in question is Vinilla (JS) to him and Andrew knows that via the no (I am assuming he got a no). So getting a yes or no instead of vinilla does not make his a fakeclaim.

Now I am actually confused. This is making me think Andrew is telling the truth actually. The mod confirming he gets a yes or no does not mean he is fakeclaiming... he can detect Power roles and non power roles from a simple yes or no from the mod and declare the person in question vinilla in game...

[jasonT1981]

Mod, can you fix my quotes please? thanks

Awesome, I got to use my modly powers! anyway, quote fixed.