Mini 1057: Unsubsidized Mafia (Game Over!)

[saporovirus]

@ Thor: I suppose I'm putting too much faith in patterns, but jimfinn ALWAYS get lynched early for lackluster, lurky, fluffy play, and he's usually town. I jumped on the far_cry wagon because I felt like I had to switch to someone, and it will only put him at L2. I am suspicious of how he's played throughout the game; his contributions seem like too little, too late, and they've only come after pressure has mounted against him.

[Thor665]

So, and correct me where I'm wrong here;

jimfinn is ALWAYS lynched early for bad play.
He is statistically town more often then scum - as is every player on the board.
You want to lynch Far_Cry for bad play.

Did I miss something here?

[saporovirus]

Why would you rather put the hammer on jimfinn, though? I mean, he at least has actually stuck his neck out and voted for people, for reasons other than that they are after him. Far_Cry posts long, wishy-washy analyses that mirror what other people have been saying, and really only makes a strong stand against jimfinn, who is such an easy lynch to sell. It just seems to me like he is lying low after stumbling several times yesterday, and I feel like a town player would dust himself off and at least try to genuinely participate.

[ThAdmiral]

A cop claiming no investigation due to laziness/accident?
That's a new one on me.

It does happen, and it is always so frustrating when it does. Sometimes it is scum trying to survive for another day or to cause confusion, but they generally lie about having investigated someone since they know everyone's alignment.
In any case, that + no counter claim = I believe nexus.

I'm not voting jimfinn. Still a terrible lynch.

It's almost as if you

know

he is town.
Do you?

Of course not.

Assuming you know that I already claimed VT, is this an attempt to associate me with him?

I know that you have claimed VT but my belief that you are indeed town is starting to waver. I've never seen a player without any other evidence be so sure that someone is town. Especially when that someone hasn't been playing a very pro-town game at all.

As far as me associating you with him... I think its fair to say that you are pretty heavily associated with him due to your own actions.

[Thor665]

Why would you rather put the hammer on jimfinn, though? I mean, he at least has actually stuck his neck out and voted for people, for reasons other than that they are after him. Far_Cry posts long, wishy-washy analyses that mirror what other people have been saying, and really only makes a strong stand against jimfinn, who is such an easy lynch to sell. It just seems to me like he is lying low after stumbling several times yesterday, and I feel like a town player would dust himself off and at least try to genuinely participate.

So your answer is that you think Far_Cry has had worse play then jimfinn?

I want to lynch jimfinn because I tend to suspect FC was a counter wagon to singersinger and I believe jimfinn's lurking has been strategic in nature which I don't think can be believed of FC's lurking.

[saporovirus]

Well, FC has had worse play if he really doesn't want to get lynched, because he's not been very pro-town at all. But who started the FC wagon? I will take a bit of a look at D1 and get back to you.

[saporovirus]

I want to lynch jimfinn because I tend to suspect FC was a counter wagon to singersinger and I believe jimfinn's lurking has been strategic in nature which I don't think can be believed of FC's lurking.

FC hasn't been lurking. He's just been offering wishy-washy statements. I also think the FC counterwagon is a valid theory only if you're very sure that jimfinn is scum, because he started it and some pro-town players jumped on it due to it's merits.

I am pretty undecided on jimmy-boy. Which actually directly contradicts something I posted earlier today. Why aren't you hammering him, Thor?

[DemonHybrid]

I know that you have claimed VT but my belief that you are indeed town is starting to waver. I've never seen a player without any other evidence be so sure that someone is town. Especially when that someone hasn't been playing a very pro-town game at all.

I'm confident in my reads.

As far as me associating you with him... I think its fair to say that you are pretty heavily associated with him due to your own actions.

What a bad way to put it.

Being associated with someone is a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT BALLGAME than having a solid town read on them. Associated meaning you're affiliated with them in some way (like masons or scum). Having a town read on them meaning you're confident they're town, but not confirmed that they are.

ThAdmiral, I should say the same thing about my read on you. You've been twisting my arguments around a little more than is comfortable, and I don't like when people do that. Means they're not thinking things through. And scum are usually the ones that don't think things through.

[Thor665]

Why aren't you hammering him, Thor?

Because I'm not done with the day yet and there's still some reactions worth seeing.

[DemonHybrid]

I want to lynch jimfinn because I tend to suspect FC was a counter wagon to singersinger and I believe jimfinn's lurking has been strategic in nature which I don't think can be believed of FC's lurking.

FC hasn't been lurking. He's just been offering wishy-washy statements. I also think the FC counterwagon is a valid theory only if you're very sure that jimfinn is scum, because he started it and some pro-town players jumped on it due to it's merits.

I am pretty undecided on jimmy-boy.

Which actually directly contradicts something I posted earlier today.

Why aren't you hammering him, Thor?

I like your honesty. +town points, and...well, the miller claim. I can see where you're coming with on that.

Consider yourself most town IMO, jim 2nd.

[jimfinn]

Why would you rather put the hammer on jimfinn, though? I mean, he at least has actually stuck his neck out and voted for people, for reasons other than that they are after him.

Far_Cry posts long, wishy-washy analyses that mirror what other people have been saying, and really only makes a strong stand against jimfinn, who is such an easy lynch to sell. It just seems to me like he is lying low after stumbling several times yesterday,

and I feel like a town player would dust himself off and at least try to genuinely participate.

Thank you for this excellent summary of why FC's D2 play is scummy.

[Chevre]

Vote Count 12

(4) jimfinn (ThAdmiral, Nexus, Far_Cry, redtail896)
(3) Far_Cry (jimfinn, DemonHybrid, saporovirus)

(2) Not Voting (nhammen, Thor665)

With

9

players alive, it takes

5

votes to lynch!
Replacing nhammen.

[Nexus]

unvote

I'm gonna have to read Far Cry again. I'm getting convinced now.

[redtail896]

Far_Cry posts long, wishy-washy analyses that mirror what other people have been saying, and really only makes a strong stand against jimfinn, who is such an easy lynch to sell. It just seems to me like he is lying low after stumbling several times yesterday,

jimfinn

posts

short

, wishy-washy analyses that mirror what other people have been saying, and really only makes a strong stand against

Far_Cry

, who is such an easy lynch to sell. It just seems to me like he is lying low after stumbling several times yesterday,

I goes both ways in my opinion. In addition, I still don't see this singer-FC connection that you've been talking about.

[Thor665]

I'm gonna have to read Far Cry again. I'm getting convinced now.

Convinced of what? I'm with redtail on this, I don't think there's been anything made that even sort of resembles a case on Far_Cry other then noting basic weak play - what do you think the case is?

[Nexus]

I don't rightly know. However, the fact that the wagon has built up as quickly as it did, again, means that there must be something there. So I'm going to read and see whether people are making a mountain out of a molehill, or have in fact got a point.

[saporovirus]

So there isn't a great case against Far_Cry or jimfinn. Thor mentioned that the FC wagon was a counterwagon to singer, but I don't necessarily see good evidence of that either.

[saporovirus]

Also, Thor, you yourself were all for wagoning Far_Cry early in d1. It's not like he's become magically more pro-town since then.

[Thor665]

@saporo - I was all for wagoning him early Day 1, the logic of why I wanted him lynched then doesn't hold up as well for a Day 2 lynch. Quite frankly, at early Day 1 I was up for wagoning darn near anybody but people wouldn't vote.

[redtail896]

So there isn't a great case against Far_Cry or jimfinn. Thor mentioned that the FC wagon was a counterwagon to singer, but I don't necessarily see good evidence of that either.

Do you have a 3rd option. I've actually been going through ISO's looking at who besides FC and jimfinn I would be willing to lynch. If you believe that neither of those 2 cases are convincing, who is your next choice?

[redtail896]

EBWOP: the first sentence there should have a question mark. Do you have a third option?

[Nexus]

Far Cry: In the space of two posts, he says "Yay, well done for helping us to move towards getting out of RVS" and then he says "Wait, no, don't go out of RVS!" This, to me, is confusing, and contradictory. Admits he is wrong, and that he should contribute mmore. Dunno what to make of that; I think it's just being conciliatory so as not to ruffle any feathers.

Doesn't seem to want to take a stance until there was more talking. Really defensive re: Thor. A lot of complaints about activity on Day 1.

Day 2: He agrees with someone elses work. Riding the waves wooo. Got really angry at saporovirus for pointing it out too. I find that quite suspicious, really quite defensive (ISO #40) He posts a good town list, though, although a lot of it is patting others on the back. Trying to win points off of them?

Asking questions (ISO #53), not a play I've seen mid-game, it's usually done RVS. Might just be because I'm fairly new.

Needs to come back, he's disappeared after he asked DH a question. Although, DH's response was pretty poor. "I already explained it, I'm not going to reiterate it."

DH is actually quite fixated by Far_Cry.

Far_Cry is a bit scummy, yes, but I'd prefer to lynch jimfinn out of the two. At least FC is more active.

So, I'm probably going to go back to jimfinn.

[Thor665]

I want DH to explain the Far_Cry connection to singersinger

specifically

or link me to the post where he already did so.

After that I'll probably be game to lynch jimfinn.

[Nexus]

See, that's one of my main concerns. DH is absolutely 100% convinced that FC is scum, and I think it's clouding him a bit.

[Far_Cry]

Oh, finally activity picks up. I see some things flying around, and some votes on me. I don't have time to post today, but I will do analysis and post tomorrow.