Newbie 1024 -- Minimalist Mafia (Game Over)

Kayi · Post Post #3 (isolation #0) » Tue Oct 26, 2010 4:59 am

/confirm

Kayi · Post Post #12 (isolation #1) » Wed Oct 27, 2010 3:34 am

Well, their avatar does look suspicious.

Kayi · Post Post #14 (isolation #2) » Wed Oct 27, 2010 6:49 am

1) My timezone is Jewish. That means, I live in Israel. Six-seven hours ahead from the States I think.
2) I'm currently playing two games in another (non-mafia related) forum. And I've played/modded IRL very simple games.
3) Pretty often, hopefully.
4) Female.

Kayi · Post Post #24 (isolation #3) » Thu Oct 28, 2010 7:22 am

Mujex, you could have RVS-voted for me for a more legitimate reason. Like claiming to be female. Everyone knows that there are no girls on the internet

Anyway, yeah. Avatar's going up soon.

Kayi · Post Post #34 (isolation #4) » Fri Oct 29, 2010 6:56 am

I'm not a huge fan of random votes as a way of starting discussion. They're funny and break the ice, but as someone mentioned, we all know they aren't serious votes.

Question:
Do you like it better when you play as Town, Mafia or a Third Party? And why?

Kayi · Post Post #49 (isolation #5) » Sat Oct 30, 2010 10:49 am

There wasn't just one motive behind the question. Yes, I wanted a mafia-related subject to get discussion going, and it sort of did. I have genuine interest on people's preferences and their motives, just to see if they resemble mine. And I think it's pretty obvious that the answer to my question could be a reflection of someone's style of playing. Once a role is assigned, our preferences can influence our way of playing the game whether we like it or not. If that's alignment fishing, then I can be accused of it. I've never seen this question used in a Mafia game though. I definitely wanted to try it.

To answer my own question, I like playing as town a lot better. The part of the game I enjoy the most is the whole suspecting/scumhunting thing, and that kind of goes away when I'm not town.

Kayi · Post Post #56 (isolation #6) » Sun Oct 31, 2010 2:31 am

@Beef, I won't deny that your reasoning seems weird to me. You're admitting that you don't know why you found it scummy, while also admitting that you just don't like this sort of question. It seems to me like your vote is based purely on that personal preference.

At this point, I can't successfully prove my innocence because there's not enough to go by. No one can, the same way I don't trust any of you and I have already made my own list of suspects. But nothing too scummy to even try to place a vote.

Kayi · Post Post #65 (isolation #7) » Mon Nov 01, 2010 9:43 am

@Yenros: Jay's timing to do a random vote seemed weird to me as well, but I don't see why it would be scummy. So I have to ask, why do you find it suspicious?

@Mujex: As I said, I'm very well aware that the fact that you like playing as Mafia better doesn't automatically mean that you're mafia. Also, Heather was replaced, so I don't think her answer is relevant.

@Mastin: I'm sorry I didn't respond to your question before. I thought the explanation was implicit in the post you just linked, where I said I didn't like the RVS and that I find random votes to be unhelpful when it comes to the actual game. As Yenros very accurately said, I vote on reason. I don't vote on anyone unless I consider they're acting particularly scummy. But I get your concern - isn't Beef's avatar suspicious? The silhouette of a man -red no less- standing with a gun in the night lookin' all scummy and ready to kill...
Okay, I hope I made my point clear. My answer to the vote on Beef was meant as a joke, however awful it was.

@Beef: The only thing I can do right now is to rest my case and let my actions, present and future, do the talking. You can't logically argue against a weird reasoning process, can you? On another note, you're seeming very suspicious to me now though, because of the following reasons:

1) As I implied on the paragraph above, that "I'm known for being weird at reasoning/voting" thing seems like a really weak defense, one that could apply to any scummy action and can't be fully argued against with logic. As Neruz said, it definitely looks like an escape route, specially after being called out on something that seemed irrational.

2) Your voting-unvoting-voting sequence. The fact that you voted for me for what you considerent blatant alignment-fishing, then when some users said your vote seemed weird you agreed and unvoted, and when someone gave you a tiny reason to reinstate your vote, you did. This, paired up with that "It was an 'I've seen scum do this somewhere'" line... If you did, why did you unvote in the first place, when people said they didn't think my question was scummy? It seemed to me like you were insecure when people called you out, and when you saw something that could somehow back up your case, you tried rescuing it to make it seem like you had a legitimate excuse for your claims since the beginning.

3) It strikes me as odd that you questioned Trendall's questions because you deemed them irrelevant, and voted for me for making a question you deemed relevant. And answered none, I might note, though that one fact doesn't say much. Except that if you believe that a question was an alignment-fishing one and you didn't respond to it, it could be because you're afraid of being alignment-fished. Mind you, I wouldn't accuse anyone who chose not to respond as being mafia, so the not answering thing is something very,

very

minor.

Vote: Beefster.

Though I'm very open to be convinced of the opposite.

Kayi · Post Post #73 (isolation #8) » Mon Nov 01, 2010 12:10 pm

@Yenros - Ridiculously random and weird, yes. But how is placing a random vote late actually

scummy

? Another train of thought I can't grasp.

@Beef - I've said that I wanted to test the question. I now don't get why you said it was blatant alignment-fishing and now you're saying it's irrelevant. You first voted for me because of the alleged alignment-fishing and now you seem to be keeping your vote because the question is irrelevant. While you've also claimed that you don't like this questions. That one thing still stands where everything around it gets blurry to me.
Again, I said that there is a possibility that one's preferences and the reason behind them influence one's way of playing the game. If you guys have told me that this isn't true, because you've seen this somewhere else, I have no reason to not believe you. I've never claimed not believing you. It's not an hypothesis I've claimed to have proven. It's not something I claimed I'll stick with throughout the game - more like "let's wait and see." Nothing more. I gave many reasons to my question though. More than anything, I did want to get discussion going. Didn't I succeed on that?

I've read some of your posts on other games and they didn't do anything either way. This particular pattern of voting struck me as weird when some others didn't. By the pattern of voting, I mean the fact that you unvoted and voted again, and the reasoning behind these actions. I'm not sure of what I think about trying to back up things with Meta. Again, seems like an escape route that could perfectly work for a lot whether you're scum or not, but more likely to be used when evidence of being Town can't be found within the game.

On a very unrelated note.... lowercase i at the end of my username. Kay

i

.

@Mastin: Well, this type of reasoning I can understand. But it doesn't mean that it indicates the truth. According to your post, we've agreed with voting for Beef. I mean, his RVS vote way before my question, my joke suspicion, and way after that, my actual vote. You suspect Beef as well, for the same reasons I do. There's also the fact that we don't like the the RVS. You agree with that as well, and I don't think it has anything to do with the actual game. But that's it when it comes to agreeing. He's defended me, and only he can answer exactly why. Whether he believes in my innocence or just that none of my actions have been scummy to him, I can't tell. If he's scum and has his own reasons for defending me, I still can't tell. He hasn't been the only one to speak in my favor. And I don't recall any attacks on him I could have defended. I can only say that I'm town, and I have no clue or suspicion of Neruz's alignment. Nothing much I can say after this.

Btw, the forum I'm playing in is a non-mafia one. PostSecret Community, if you must know, under the same username. I'm not sure the Games section is open to non-registered users though.

Kayi · Post Post #81 (isolation #9) » Tue Nov 02, 2010 2:29 am

@Beef: Weird voting patterns are weird no matter the stage of the game. If your vote on me was mostly random the first time, why did you retire it at all? And then reinstate it? When I first read it, I thought it was a total RVS vote, but your actions made it seem more serious to me. To the rest of it I have nothing else to say other than your defense still seems really weak to me . I'll proceed to rest my case and keep my vote, unless something huge happens that convinces me of your non-scumminess.

@Neruz: When have I actually agreed with you? The only opinion we have in common is not liking the RVS, as far as I've seen, and that has nothing to do with the game itself. And as far as I know, your vote on Beef was a random one, and I've explained mine more than even you considered necessary. That's it. If that's a lot... well, I need my terms redefined. Also, go back and read my posts. I do not only address people who address me. I mostly do so, but when there's nothing new that strikes me as scummy/odd, I don't see why I shouldn't do this.

"looking at the rest of her play..." do elaborate, please. I find this to be too vague of an argument.

I prioritize my suspicions in my head and only express the ones that seem more relevant. It's the beginning of the game, I don't trust anyone and I'm paranoid. I could probably say stuff against absolutely everyone, which is why I choose to keep most if it to myself. No one jumps out at me as obvtown yet. Some of the things that struck me as weird:

Yenros

jumped quickly to vote on Jay saying that he found his random vote scummy. Weird, yes, but how scummy? I posed that question once and he kind of answered, but he didn't answer my concern. I repeated it, I've gotten no answer. Posting it again now. I'm slightly suspicious on them, but not enough.

Jay

's vote and explanation are just... weird. I have no impression either way, but I'll be watching him closely.

I wish

Mute

stopped being mute. I haven't heard input from him at all. I can't possibly know if he's lurking or just away. But he hasn't posted anything relevant to the game

Kayi · Post Post #88 (isolation #10) » Tue Nov 02, 2010 11:03 am

Trying to keep it a bit shorter... Trying.

@Neruz - I had genuinely forgotten about the escape route thing. I used it as an explanation of my point - why did I think his defensive arguments weren't good enough. I pretty much told him "your reasoning his weird" and, paraphrasing, he said "I'm known for a weird reasoning/vote." I... don't see how that could be perceived as anything else. But I don't want to get into the Beef thing again. I've said enough.

@Mastin - Ha. It would be stupid for me to try to get you to believe me just because we've agreed on a few things. Agreement and disagreement mean nothing more often than not, and that's exactly my point. I wanted to indicate how this a shaky thing to rely on. That's all I'm saying, and I don't mean to imply anything else. When it comes to the voting thing, if you look at the timing, Neruz's suspicion on Beef became serious after I expressed finding Beef's arguments slightly suspicious, and his vote seemed to become official on Page 4 when he said he was keeping his vote. Brought up the RVS thing because I wanted to acknowledge having noticed it. Also, it's hard for me to address people when they haven't done anything to actually catch my attention. If my radar doesn't react while reading their posts, I proceed.

@Yen - Seems odd that you find Jay's defending himself weird, seeing as after you voted you've exhibited the same behavior you're condemning. That is, doing nothing more than defending your vote and addressing only when addressed.

On an unrelated note, and stating my thoughts on everyone else: Mute should appear - not liking their muteness. Got my eye on Yen and Jay as well, Yen more than Jay. Trendall and Mujex haven't said anything that could get caught in my radar. I'm mostly neutral about Mastin and Neruz. I think Mastin will prove himself guilty or innocent after a few days/deaths because of the way he posts. We'll see about Neruz - I have no way of trying to determine if he's saying the truth or not.

Kayi · Post Post #104 (isolation #11) » Wed Nov 03, 2010 11:23 am

Mastin

, as you said, I think my case against Beef is pretty solid. To me it's so obvious that keeping to point it out seems redundant. I might be wrong on that though. On the agreeing thing, I don't see how that could be perceived as me going buddybuddy on you. I simply said that I understood your reasoning but that it didn't indicate the truth, and I proceeded to explain why. On Neruz and our suspicion/vote... I said that Beef's reasoning was weird, then Neruz mentioned the escape route. After a response from Beef, I voted, and a page later Neruz finally said openly that he was going to keep his vote. That's where both lines were crossed. Finally, your SE-ish advice is really useful and it addresses some of my concerns. But I'm afraid that discussing it (which I want to do) would bring meta too heavily into the game. I don't want to use "mistake due to newbieness/badplay on my part" as an argument. Ever.

Neruz

, what I said on my last post was exactly what I meant. The only inactivity I pointed out as such was Mute's. Who now admitted to lurking, by the way. I don't like that

Mute

didn't say anything of content whatsoever when he did come around. Definitely keeping an eye on this one.

Jay

and his excuses aren't very good. The Phantom Vote thing doesn't seem genuine. I'm not sure he's scum, only at an IGMEOY/FoS level, but I do think he's lying on that respect. Also, his FoS at Yen seemed too much like an OMGUS suspicion. I still don't get how his vote was scummy, but he's letting Yenros build a good case against him so I'll let it rest. Speaking of which,

Yenros

starts to seem genuine, but definitely still not obvtown.

Kayi · Post Post #112 (isolation #12) » Thu Nov 04, 2010 4:41 am

Neruz, again, what I said in my post is what I meant. I word things the way I word them for a reason. I don't know how your mind works, and I only know what shows up on the thread. You had expressed suspicion so far and I do see it as a gradual thing, but your vote was very much in the air until you declared that you were keeping it. That's where a line was visibly crossed. Only you know what you think; we can only see what you write.

Beefster, your aggressiveness and not wanting to recognize that I've made a -if not good, definitely not completely bad- case against you is not making you look better. I'm not saying anything else because your attitude is saying it all.

Mute, Meta says nothing. I read a few of Beef's post. For what I could gather, there were some crazy votes, but there were some that struck me as logical. I got an idea of what his playstyle is. It really changed nothing. He used his Meta to support his innocence. If I used his Meta to make arguments, there are things to support his scumminess as well. As I said before, I'm strongly against bringing Meta too heavily into the game anyway.

I'll be V/LA from tonight or tomorrow morning (haven't actually decided) until Saturday night or Sunday afternoon, depending on my level of tiredness when I get home. All Jewish Timezone. Real life has suddenly gotten exciting and interesting. Yay weekends.

Kayi · Post Post #113 (isolation #13) » Thu Nov 04, 2010 4:42 am

Also, hi Lateralus22! Any outsider-until-now thoughts?

Kayi · Post Post #152 (isolation #14) » Sun Nov 07, 2010 1:46 am

@L22 - How is the "I've agreed with him, what's your point?" line pro-town? It would have been a lie. I knew the point he was trying to make and I wasn't going to pretend I didn't. Most of my posts on this game have been long-winded and I struggle to keep them shorter for the reader's sake, but I don't understand what's wrong with trying to explain oneself correctly. Also, Meta can be found and used to support nearly every argument, which is why I'm so strongly against it. If you're using a Meta that doesn't even include me how is that even valid?
Now, if it's just your

gut

telling you that the

tone

of my posts is fake, what can I even say about that?

The whole Mute vs. Yenros thing is very confusing to me at the moment. I don't get exactly what they're arguing about. I still don't like Jay's arguments (as in, they don't seem Townie) and now I'm waiting to read more on Trendall. He seems to be afraid of saying more than strictly necessary.

Kayi · Post Post #154 (isolation #15) » Sun Nov 07, 2010 3:59 am

Taking into account that my attack on his meta usage is about the "I don't trust anyone" line, well, I can find Meta to find town has used it as well. It leaves me wondering what L22 is trying to accomplish by using such a small comment to make a case. All his comments against me are along the lines of "I think town wouldn't have said that, but this this and that, this is why Kayi's arguments

sound

fake." I don't see how this makes Meta a reliable tool, specially in a Newbie game. Meta usage of this sort seems more like a last resort thing to me, when it should be something to maybe support a well-established argument. But basing your arguments on Meta (and one that doesn't even include the player in question) just seems dangerous, and even anti-town.

Kayi · Post Post #159 (isolation #16) » Mon Nov 08, 2010 1:13 am

The debate on the agreeing thing is over, I don't get why you're bringing it up again. If Mastin suspected me for it, it's because he found it scummy. Neruz started suspecting me then. It all grants a defense. That's it. No more, no less.

What would my "denying anything you've said" include? As if my saying it will make you magically believe it. I'm not scum, and every word I've written is sincere. I think that at this point, I'm just going to laugh when you guys find I'm town.

If that wasn't meta usage to some degree, why did you link to that other game? You're trying to engage me in a battle of concepts and theory ignoring the actual content of my words. I definitely don't like that.

On the Trendall thing, what is there to elaborate? He seems to be posting just enough to not be "lurking" but not enough for me to get a read on him. Which I don't like. He said he'd be posting more this week, let's see if he delivers.

The one thing I've seen that makes me strongly doubt you is that, even when you seem to have found more in-game evidence to attack Beefster, you're just sticking to your gut and trying to explain it. I don't know what to think about that.

My points on Beefster were made clear, I don't see why I should repeat them ten times over. Other than his claim and his sudden disappearance, I don't have anything new worthy of mention at this point. Still find him scummy, still keeping my vote.

Kayi · Post Post #172 (isolation #17) » Tue Nov 09, 2010 1:22 am

Yenros: If I think I'm being attacked/suspected, I'm going to defend myself. You're putting too much emphasis on the way I used the word 'Meta' and completely ignored what I'm trying to convey. In the future, I'll limit myself to using the word like you all have suggested, but it still doesn't change my actual point. Do I really have to explain myself again?

On the Jay case, I don't see WIFOM as inherently scummy. But this case of WIFOM isn't even valid, as no one wants to draw negative attention to oneself. Because of that, and the fact that Jay used it after endlessly arguing about the subject on a different way, it came across as scummy. Like he had felt cornered.
I'm basically a Newbie as well, but I hope my two cents on the subject are helpful.

Kayi · Post Post #194 (isolation #18) » Thu Nov 11, 2010 12:01 pm

I'm sorry I'm not as active these last few days. Real life's been hectic.

L22

, I'm not saying you should ignore it, I just don't see what's the point on discussing this matter further. You said what I thought, I told you what it was.

What I'm trying to say is that I could very well say an opposite theory and back it up with a different game.

Exactly how am I dismissing scumhunt? What I found interesting is your

vote

, taking into account that you said this:

"

Beefster's play is just scummy

with the original alignment fishing nonsense and the pretty weak vote.

Kayi's more of my gut

telling me there's something wrong. My first read through the comments she posted really bothered me and sound false."

I missed when Trendall said his computer broke down. Going back to re-read. I'm finding

Trendall

's last post worthy of mention though. When did he suddenly become the "easiest target"? Too defensive when no one but Beefster has really attacked him in any way. I'd be an 'easier target' than him considering how many people find me scummy. Just sayin'.

I think my last post responded to you as to my current thoughts on Beefster. And also the Trendall thing. Could I ask you to quote my entire post next time, instead of just the lines you're addressing? Just to keep the context absolutely intact.

Mastin

, thanks for your SEssion on pressure. Very much needed.

Mute

, I didn't like the tone of your last post. You should be caring about your reasoning working for the town.

Kayi · Post Post #215 (isolation #19) » Sun Nov 14, 2010 9:01 am

I didn't have much time last time I responded, and I don't know when I will again. I apologize if I'm walling or if I'm addressing things that were addressed already.

@Mute - Aggressiveness is the least of my concerns. Your reasoning was pretty much "This is what I think and I don't care what you think about it." Not being able to defend your thought process comes off as scummy to me because it shows insecurity.

@Beef - I don't know how I missed post #192. It's disconcerting how little attention you're paying to the game. Seeing as we pretty much argued back and forth for two pages about your voting sequence, I don't get how you're able to forget that you had your vote on me before having it on Trendall. Specially after stating that you had become genuinely suspicious of me. The fact that you're at L-1 and don't even seem to remember why... Well, I don't know what to think of that. I just know it doesn't look good. At this point your attitude is simply anti-town.

@Trendall - I don't understand your reasoning. Town are as likely as scum to try to shake votes off at L-1 (cyber-survival instinct ftw.) Both parties are likely to keep acting in a way they think looks pro-town until they're lynched. What do you think on Beefster's barely paying any attention to the game at all?

@Mastin - I actually somewhat disagree with that SEssion you gave Trendall. (No, I wouldn't have read it if he hadn't pointed it out.) And I also think it's more of an opinion than actual game theory. Not so much the main subject of it. I noted that post (#175) for its uncalled-for defensiveness before. It still looks scummy to me. But what you said on your SEssion doesn't sound right. Both town and scum are worried of coming across as scummy, or they should be. Trying to not sound scummy is, on a town player, a pro-town thing to do. The problem is achieving it...

Kayi · Post Post #247 (isolation #20) » Sat Nov 20, 2010 12:06 pm

I don't know if I should laugh or cry about how screwed I am now.

Kayi · Post Post #248 (isolation #21) » Sat Nov 20, 2010 12:07 pm

Hitting submit accidentally sucks.

I just want to add that the no kill definitely calls for many assumptions.

Kayi · Post Post #258 (isolation #22) » Sat Nov 20, 2010 11:21 pm

I honestly don't get why No Lynching today is the best move. Could someone explain? Specially the odd numbers/even numbers thing Neruz mentioned. It's the first time I hear that.

Kayi · Post Post #281 (isolation #23) » Mon Nov 22, 2010 9:50 am

Hey everyone, I'm going to redirect you to that space under my avatar where it mentions my gender.
/fluff.

Neruz

, thanks for clarifying the NL thing. It really helped. I don't want to do it now though; at the moment different things concern me.

Mute

, are you 100% sure I'm Town then, and that I was targeted? Since you're so sure that Lateralus is scum and targeted me, that's the next assumption. Now, do you believe Lateralus is scum and targeted me? I'm not dismissing the option, but every time I mull it over I fall in unhelpful WIFOM. So I'd like you to state yet again your thoughts in the matter trying to include the logic behind it, because I see it nowhere.

The only thing that makes me feel better about your claim is that no one has counter-claimed, but that means very little. If you had genuinely thought at some point that I could be scum, and you seemed to do, why would you think I'd be the one being targeted? And why would you want to protect me if "you wanted to observe me"? That basically means that you protected me because you're suspicious of me. Makes no sense. Either flawed logic or scummy/invented flawed logic. And makes me wonder if you ever really suspected me somehow, or you are scum and just threw my name there to follow the crowd.

Mastin

, we can't possibly know if Mute will die tonight. That would be making strong assumptions about what the Mafia would do. And we don't really know that, so I don't really like your assuming that the Mafia will kill Mute on N2. I don't want to go into WIFOM-y territory, but I think you know what I mean. And why is NL a bad option with a claim like this?

Kayi · Post Post #298 (isolation #24) » Fri Nov 26, 2010 10:17 am

Neruz wrote:Why would the scum no kill repeatedly though? And why would we no lynch repeatedly? Neither side wants a draw.

But neither side wants the other to win either, I'd say.

Kayi · Post Post #311 (isolation #25) » Mon Nov 29, 2010 11:09 pm

I've lost track of what's going on in the game. I'll be doing a re-read and posting my impressions soon.

Kayi · Post Post #346 (isolation #26) » Mon Dec 06, 2010 1:14 am

Responding to prod. I'm really on the same boat Neruz is. This game being dead for a long time has made me lost interest and every attempt of regaining it only ended up making things worse. I'm still going to give it a try.

Kayi · Post Post #353 (isolation #27) » Mon Dec 06, 2010 7:59 am

Okay, so what is an ISO read? I'm quite confused.

I'm still lost. After thinking over Mute's claim and reading everyone's arguments, I do agree that Mute's claim isn't scummy (though I'm still wary of it; call it a gut feeling) and that we should lynch someone today. But I don't really have any strong enough suspicions that could cause me to vote anyone.

Kayi · Post Post #380 (isolation #28) » Tue Dec 07, 2010 7:45 am

Wow. Mastin, please do keep your posts shorter. Trying to do my read for the day and I can't even... Wow.

The whole Mastin case is driving me mad honestly. Not because I don't somewhat agree, but because I feel it's going in circles (with Mastin's post getting longer and less readable.) People stated their case, Mastin has responded, people stated their case again, Mastin responded... There's not much more to it at the moment. Though I'm definitely curious as to what he'll answer to Trendall's most recent posts.

Kayi · Post Post #410 (isolation #29) » Tue Dec 07, 2010 12:15 pm

I'm actually close to zero. It's quite frustrating. Mute had been my main suspect for Day 2, then he claimed, then the game died. To try to put myself back on track, I'm trying to do an ISO read on the two of you (Trendall and Mastin) because well, you're the main focus of attention now. I'm halfway down the Trendall ISO read and I'm having neutral feelings on what I'm seeing. Wish me luck for the Mastin one...

Kayi · Post Post #416 (isolation #30) » Tue Dec 07, 2010 2:25 pm

Long, detailed (mostly) ISO Read on Trendall. I am doing some analysis and pointing out some things I found scummy/questionable at some point as well, but I'm not trying to make a case. I apologize if I'm walling. I'm trying to keep it short and useful.

This is the beginning of the game, nothing worthy of mention. He becomes more active in post #79, in which he keeps arguing with Beefster, questions Jay on his random vote, and addresses a few points Mastin mentioned.

On #110 he mentioned having computer issues, promising to deliver more content. On #145 he responds a few things addressed to him, promising again to deliver more content later. He does finally on #175, writing down Beefster's voting pattern and analyzing it. I remember this didn't sit well with me, because he does so after Beefster switched his vote to him. He said something about "Beefster switching his vote to the easiest target." But he mentions being reluctant to hammer, which starts some discussion with Mastin.

Post #203 is really, really interesting. He sort of FoS-es Mastin for "hiding opinion under SE tags" and extensively rants on this. He answered my concerns on the "easiest target" thing. It would've been fine, but then he mentions being put off by the idea of a Beefster lynch. His whole thought process was weird to me. Not so much that he wasn't sure about lynching him anymore, but that he states that "I originally thought that Beefster's vote on me was to try and get votes off of him and onto me, but I'm starting to realise now that that may not necessarily have been the case." It still strikes me as an overly defensive reaction that, when he was called out for it, he did what he could to tone it down.

Beefster immediately FoSed him based on post #203 (accusing him of OMGUS/fluffing) and he promptly responded that he never understood OMGUS. Nothing interesting until he hammers Beefster.

He V/LA's, but starts Day 2 agreeing with the No Lynch. But on #314 he seems angry that Mute claimed, and he quickly tries to figure out a good plan of action. The tone of the post seems heavily Townie to my gut.

On #348 he agrees with a case made against Mastin and gives his reasons. The case against Jay (that Mastin claims is an ISO read), the "random-voted the doctor" line, and what he had mentioned on Day 1. He furthers the case on #352, basically disbelieving Mastin's claim that his ISO/case on Jay was just an ISO read. Brings back the "random-voted the doctor" line on #360. Focuses on it. Accuses Mastin of being overly-defensive. He defends himself against Mastin's accusations. I definitely have to read Mastin before I can make an opinion on Trendall's case/defenses against him though.

He finally votes for Mastin on #375. Proceeds to point out apparent contradictions on Mastin's posts. I called both of them out on being repetitive, and Trendall said that he'd rest his case for the moment. Immediately, he asks for everyone's opinion on what's going on.

On #388 he actually analyzes the possible reactions his vote could've had. He keeps debating Mastin (and detailing this is hard if I haven't read the other side of the argument, which I actually haven't and I admit it.) On #408 he actually makes a good case against Mastin - or that will be determined, to me, by my impressions on Mastin's case. If I happen to agree with Trendall here, I'll vote for Mastin probably. I'm definitely eager for Mastin's response on this.

Overall impression on Trendall: Neutral, will probably depend on my ISO read on Mastin. He's done things that leave me wondering, but his overall attitude seems pro-town to me. Feel free to come up with your own analysis. I... will try to do an ISO read on Mastin tomorrow. Wish me luck.

Kayi · Post Post #425 (isolation #31) » Wed Dec 08, 2010 11:04 am

Guys... I did it. Sorry it's a wall of text, but justifiably so. On my next post I'll try to analyze this further and summarize it so you can get a better read of what I meant by all this. By now, I'll just throw it out there. Or maybe I'll leave it at that so Mastin experiences sweet, sweet karma

(That was a bad joke)

Spoiler: ISO/kind-of-case/Analysis on Mastin. VERY LONG.

So in case you missed it -

FoS: Mastin.

Your future posts will determine my vote.

Kayi · Post Post #426 (isolation #32) » Wed Dec 08, 2010 11:06 am

EBWOP: Forgot to link to Post #412

Kayi · Post Post #440 (isolation #33) » Thu Dec 09, 2010 1:15 am

Neruz

's whole attitude is interesting. After summarizing my case (and quite well - I'm trying to draw a line between what's just a questionable play and what's actually scummy, which is why I'm still reluctant to vote) he proceeds to attack his voter for what it looks like a weaker case. It's almost OMGUS to me. Why? Because it was a vote quickly after stating that other two people looked more suspicious. It would be really bad in my eyes if Mute and him hadn't brought out several good points against Nacho.

Yes,

Nacho

's attitude starts looking very scummy. The vote change is questionable. As soon as the player he was voting for got what it seemed a decent case/wagon on him, two/three days before the deadline he suddenly decides that he's not the scummiest person out there and changes his vote. Weak case, too. He seems willing to vote anyone whose playstyle annoys him.

Nacho, do you really think Neruz is more likely to be scum than Mastin? If so, why?

Seemingly unrelated but not at all... please do explain to me the quote on your signature. Since it alludes your play, I think it would allow me to get a better read on you.

I wouldn't mind joining a Nacho bandwagon if it looked like it would be definitive. But since him and Mastin are my primary suspects now,

I definitely want some answers from Mastin.

It's unlikely that these two could be a scumpair.

Trendall

, after analyzing what you all had to say about the No Lynch, I very put off by the idea of it. I actually liked Mastin's reasoning on this. Since Mute gets a town read from everyone and because of this I mostly do too (to a lesser extent, admittedly) we're choosing from six players. Tonight is very, very likely that either myself or Mute are targeted. Leaves us with six players again. Lynching today and choosing between five (or even four) tomorrow would be a definite advantage, and there's still a chance that we do hit scum.

Also, since the slot played by Nacho has been played by three people, maybe doing an ISO would be interesting and more accurate even. If I wasn't so worn out by the Mastin ISO (took hours, no joke) I'd do it right now. And also, since Lateralus had a case on me on Day 1, I'm afraid it could come out biased. But I think I'll give it a try.

Kayi · Post Post #445 (isolation #34) » Thu Dec 09, 2010 4:01 am

Trendall wrote:
Kayi wrote:Yes,
Nacho
's attitude starts looking very scummy. The vote change is questionable. As soon as the player he was voting for got what it seemed a decent case/wagon on him, two/three days before the deadline he suddenly decides that he's not the scummiest person out there and changes his vote. Weak case, too. He seems willing to vote anyone whose playstyle annoys him.
Is it scummy though? Surely if Nacho was mafia, the better and easier option there would have just been to stick on Mastin, seeing as a lot of people are now suspicious of Mastin, rather than starting a brand new bandwagon on somebody who nobody had really been paying any attention to.

It could mean many things, but the first one that jumped to mind was that he could be trying to confuse the town. I don't quite buy his case on Neruz either; what do you think about it?

But

Neruz

... If you're so sure Nacho is scum, do you think Mastin or Trendall could be scum?

Kayi · Post Post #448 (isolation #35) » Thu Dec 09, 2010 9:50 am

It's about time you get to page 18, Mastin, because frankly we're kinda sorta running out of time.

And wait, did you just say you had finished reading page 17? Why no comments on my ISO on Trendall, considering that he's your main suspect? (Also considering that you like to teach, and I'd also appreciate comments as a SE.)

Also, in my ISO/case on you, when I addressed post #354, I concluded after carefully reading you that you were indeed making an ISO on Jay and let that be. Which pretty much invalidated your very heated rant to me. Making the precious time you spent replying to that tiny little comment (that you have addressed too many times before) useless and wasted, and wasted the time I spent reading it as well. You don't have to make a comment to every single little thing, not without making sure it's not outdated and repetitive. It's very anti-town in many ways.

VOTE: Mastin.
(Though what I said on Nacho still stands. Eagerly waiting for his responses.)

I don't appreciate the fact that you waste time and space defending yourself against petty... well, not even accusations... when you could be doing something more useful. Like scumhunting. Or "getting town reads" which is what you claimed you're good at.

Kayi · Post Post #463 (isolation #36) » Fri Dec 10, 2010 3:39 am

Guys, I'm V/LA until tomorrow night. I don't want deadline to come onto me unexpectedly. I can't make much response and analysis now, but I'm staying true to my word based on what I've observed.

UNVOTE: Mastin

VOTE: Nachomamma8

Kayi · Post Post #496 (isolation #37) » Wed Dec 15, 2010 5:26 am

Mastin: Why did you not hammer Nacho, even though by your logic a No Lynch was statistically worse for the town?
Trendall: Why do you thought Mastin was town on D2? What made you change your mind? And why did you change your mind again now?
Yenros: Why do you keep lurking and not post anything positive?

The fact that Nacho wasn't hammered though, makes me feel that he's scum and that his partner is one of those who didn't vote.

Kayi · Post Post #528 (isolation #38) » Sat Dec 18, 2010 11:55 am

Everyone

: Who are your current suspicions? I'm getting a bit lost here. Also, where's Jay? And why does Yenros and Nacho continue to actively lurk like their life depended on it?

Trendall, Mastin just made a very long ISO/case on/against you. Nothing to say about it?

I still think Meta is very unreliable because one learns a lot with experience. What Mastin says seems valid to an extent, but I'm not fully convinced by it. Nothing seems to be a strong indicator that Trendall is acting radically different than he has in the past.

I'm going to be V/LA

for at least three weeks. As in, no access during weekdays, probably will be able to get a post or two on weekends if I'm lucky.

Mod

, if you feel that I should be replaced at least temporarily, then whatever's best for the game. I'd like to keep participating once my schedule allows it though. I'm learning a lot from this game.

Kayi · Post Post #786 (isolation #39) » Sat Jan 22, 2011 5:06 am

Hey guys. Sorry I became so unavailable so suddenly. Glad to know I was right on my two main suspects before I had to disappear, even though at the time it seemed odd that they could be a scumpair. Mastin not hammering Nacho that one time should've been (and kinda was) a massive tell, specially after many lectured Trendall on how "reluctance to hammer is scummy."

I learned a lot from this game and, when I'm not so busy, I'll be glad to play more. It was definitely a lot of fun while it lasted.