Open 226: Big Love - Game over! Town wins!


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Post Post #1350 (ISO) » Sun Oct 24, 2010 6:02 pm

Post by hitogoroshi »

Miyu wrote:Hito, please learn to read. A case does not equate to being asked questions.
I'll respond to everything once I get home. Though I do find it rather hysterical that you completely ignore me calling you out hito, but then turn around and try to bash me for not answering something. I ignored them for a reason, because I wanted ythill to post his case; rather than ask questions.
Firstly, he's posted a fairly exhaustive analysis that I'm sure would comprise the bulk of any "case" on you. As an example, mod iso 48 is a vote count that puts you in a very negative light. He posted as much three days ago. Why does he have to repackage this into a "case"? Nothing is stopping you from commenting on his analysis now. He took all the work to write it in the first place; I don't see why he must also take the work of rephrasing it for your sake. And for that matter, how are things like this:
Ythill wrote:Miyu: There is no clear scumteam between the four unconfirmed players who are not Miyu. There are solid reasons why each one of them is not scum unless she is. Furthermore, there are links suggesting that she is scum with at least one of them. All four players posted while she was hovering at L-2 and being pressured by five townies. Two of them (Sand-ZF) were set up for suspicion against her; unless those two are a scumteam, the other had a hammer likely to follow an L-2 vote. While Sanx may have been scum stuck in a stance, the only other player who didn't suspect Miyu was Red, who had recently replaced in with a clean slate, and could have easily placed that L-2 vote with two likely hammers waiting. Tl;dr: Miyu is scum.
not a case?

Secondly, I don't think Ythill really even needs to write a "case" today. Cases are when you're trying to get people to vote for your favorite lynch candidate. That's not needed here. Some time today, Ythill is going to call the scumteam he thinks is most probable from the sum of the evidence before us. Unless I severely disagree (and given that my analysis is part of the evidence, I highly doubt that) I'll vote with him. That person is the person who's getting lynched today. This isn't about "cases" anymore - it's about analysis. Maybe Ythill will cater to your obstinance, but he's certainly under no obligation to. If you refuse to engage the evidence or answer questions until Ythill repackages his work, there's nothing stopping us from lynching you while you remain silent. The burden of proof is on you to prove you're not scum.

Thirdly - and this applies to
everyone
- your job is not just to defend yourself, but to find the scum. Ythill's questions are both asking you for your thoughts on who the scum are. Why on earth does he have to write a case to get you to scumhunt?

PREVIEW EDIT: Ythill came in and said basicially the same thing, but nicer. I guess I'm the bad cop here.

Also, Ythill:
It fits with RC's misread/misrep that Wacka's exit was the only point against him. Red glazed over the double-bluff the same way he glazed over the other points against the slot. However, it seems really heavy-handed for treatment of an actual buddy. Does he seem that clumsy to you?
Mallowgeno and DavidParker were both town. RC certainly isn't a clumsy player, but I can definitely see him getting complacent if he feels like the relevant mislynches are lined up. You can see from his posts on the tail end of day 5 that he's feeling a little burnt out in the game. This could be because he's a scum who feels like the win is in the bag.

Actually, thinking about this now, I don't think RC could really be scum with anyone but Miyu. With Miyu-town, a DP lynch would have been easily achievable. They'd need only one townie DP vote besides Miyu to secure the lynch, and if either the n5 or n6 shot hit a lover that'd be game.
The paranoid side of me is saying that the DP kill makes the most sense as a framing mechanism for a Miyu-town lynch.
DP would be a knock-in-and-win mislynch if Miyu is town. Sure, killing him would help get Miyu lynched, but it'd be easier to get HIM lynched if Miyu is town.
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Post Post #1351 (ISO) » Sun Oct 24, 2010 6:26 pm

Post by Ythill »

hito wrote:The burden of proof is on you to prove you're not scum.
I disagree, sorry. We need to make the correct decision regardless of how she plays.
hito wrote:Actually, thinking about this now, I don't think RC could really be scum with anyone but Miyu. With Miyu-town, a DP lynch would have been easily achievable.
You think David is a better mislynch than Miyu if both are town? She was @ L-2 two days ago and would have been lynched yesterday if I hadn't played that caveat wrong. Meanwhile, David never got above 2-3 votes. Also, why does this apply only to RC? It seems like it could be said about anyone, which makes me think you're basing it on an assumption.

I was meaning to ask you before... why are you ruling out ZF-Red? Other than this new bit, obv.
Record:
Town 10W/15L
Scum 4W/1L
Other 2W/2L
Newbie 1L


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Post Post #1352 (ISO) » Sun Oct 24, 2010 7:00 pm

Post by hitogoroshi »

I disagree, sorry. We need to make the correct decision regardless of how she plays.
Yeah, but I meant it in the terms of "cases". We don't need to explain to HER why we think she's scum, she needs to explain to us why she's not. Obviously, I'm not saying that she's automatically scum if she refuses to do this. I'm just saying that the burden of proof is not on us to PROVE our scumpicks to our scumpicks. We need to come to what we think is the best conclusion (posting analysis) but we don't need to put a glossy shine on it and sell it (writing cases).
You think David is a better mislynch than Miyu if both are town? She was @ L-2 two days ago and would have been lynched yesterday if I hadn't played that caveat wrong. Meanwhile, David never got above 2-3 votes.
Right, but look at the names of the people putting her at L-2. Mallowgeno, now dead. Muthaa, replaced by me (and I had indicated that I found DP scummier than Miyu.) Public sentiment was much more against DP than Miyu.
Also, why does this apply only to RC? It seems like it could be said about anyone, which makes me think you're basing it on an assumption.
Huh, you're right. This can be applied to anyone. I can't think of a single scumteam without Miyu that doesn't think they can get DP lynched. Your thoughts?
I was meaning to ask you before... why are you ruling out ZF-Red? Other than this new bit, obv.
His ISO 3, as well as most of his posts today, go after ZF pretty hard. I don't see the scum bussing that frenetically in a game that's lurking to high heaven and a mislynch or two away from victory. That being said, upon re-read he doesn't go after ZF quite as much as I remembered, and his ISO 14 does have a faint tinge of scum-buddies around it. Still, I think it's less likely than Miyu <---> ZF.
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Post Post #1353 (ISO) » Sun Oct 24, 2010 7:14 pm

Post by Miyu »

@Miyu: It's going to be hard to laugh with a noose around your neck. Just sayin./quote]
Where is the noose?

#1327 - I stand by that some editing went on. Because I'm 98% certain that this post did not currently look like this when I posted my #1338. I fail to see where your case is. This post seems to be all about possible pairings. However I don't believe that I see you saying why I am scum. Just that I am. Again, post a case which details why I am scum.
@Miyu: Please address the above post. Specifically, I would like you to determine the two-man scumteam who was most likley to not lynch you in that situation and explain why. Transparently please.
I just did.
In reference to the two-man scum team who was most likely not going to lynch me in this situation here:
Robocopter87 (mallowgeno, Sanxion, Miyu) 3 L-4
Miyu (Robocopter87, Muthaa, DavidParker, Enigma, drmyshottyizsik) 5 L-2

Not voting: Mr.Sandman, RedCoyote, Switz, ZeroFang/quote]

At first I would say those already voting for me could possible be the two scum, as a double hammer had not happened. However considering
Muthaa
Hito is the only remaining one alive on that list, and is currently an uncounterclaimed Lover, I would say the two scum would be between those not voting. I would assume that they either were not around to hammer, or wanted to wait for town to hammer - so their hands would be clean.

Wow. Hito. Wow. You're such an idiot. Firstly, grooming a mislynch of mallow? WTF are you talking about? Please QUOTE FOR ME, where I ever mentioned that I was going to vote for mallow. Because I am fairly effing sure that I didn't. Seriously, this is beyond ridiculous. Please oh please let the real lovers claim, like now. Oh but wait. You don't respond when you are countered on your 'solid points'. But please, continue kissing Ythill's ass.
The reason I was 'ignoring' as you call it in terms of Red. Was mainly because he was modding another game that I replaced into - and I found the entire situation odd. Playing in a game with someone who was modding another game I was in. Was it intentional? No. But you are seriously making a mountain out of a wormhole. You have this preconceived notion that I am scum. What reasons are those Hito? Oh yes, I believe you've never said. The facts and information lead to the conclusion. You Hito, are doing it backwards.

What is a meta-game Ythill? Comparing past games to current games?

@Miyu: Does it seem like ZF is angry about me being confirmed town? Why were you hesitant to settle on two suspects before the lover claims?/quote]
Not particularly no. He has seemed to be a more negative person all game. Or it could have absolutely nothing to do with the game, but you specifically. I don't know, why don't you ask him?
Like I said previously. Meta me, or make your case. Rarely do I commit an act which is equivalent to stating x players are the scum with x scum slots. Rarely is anything so concrete. Like I also said previously, they rotated because of what came out of their mouths, or what didn't. Like I also said previously. You seem to be playing this game with the notion of a textbook model, rather than what reality is.
Also, why do you sound more obstinate today? If hito has misinterpreted something, accusing him of misrep isn't going to clear it up. Remember... no grounds for OMGUS. As for my case on you, I think I've covered it pretty clearly. Did you have specific questions?
Again, #1327 is not a case, as it does not detail why you think I am scum. But merely sets up possible relationships on your wrong assumption that I am scum.
Haha. Funny. I asked/told him to quote where I supposed said/implied something.. and yet he hasn't responded. So, you might want to actually read my posts first. ;)

@Ythill. When you do plan on explaining your statements of x player is town. Or you're just going to ignore that?

Nope. Because my #1338 was in response to things after my last post, which was only to things on this page - page 54. That post did not look like that when I made #1338.

Wow. ythill. Just wow. Actually believing that because someone is sofar uncounterclaimed Lover, so possibly confirmed town - makes them
correct
? Are you drunk? High? Get conked in the head?

Wow. Hito. Wow. Again, learn to read. RESPOND TO MY POSTS AGAINST YOU, in which i demanded that you prove something, where you misrepped me. Do it.

Are you effing serious? You honestly believe tha tyou don't need to explain your reasons why you think someone is scum? WTF. When the eff did this game go from epically stupid to infinite epically stupid.
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Post Post #1354 (ISO) » Sun Oct 24, 2010 7:15 pm

Post by Miyu »

Ugh. Quote tag fail.
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Post Post #1355 (ISO) » Sun Oct 24, 2010 7:21 pm

Post by Ythill »

hito wrote:Huh, you're right. This can be applied to anyone. I can't think of a single scumteam without Miyu that doesn't think they can get DP lynched. Your thoughts?
Either Miyu is scum or you're suffering from confirmation bias, obv. I keep coming back to the Xite/Mallow situation. We
know
that the scum were avoiding his wagons, and we have that one big wagon where Waxka/Miyu is the only unconfirmed slot on. Maybe I'm just being paranoid but, if the scum are subtle enough to set up Mallow like that, then they could have been doing the same with her.

Meh.
Prima facie
, Miyu + ZF seems like the most likley team.

I'm noting the change in the tone of Miyu's play. She was dead-set on winning this game at first, now she seems frustrated and reserved.

Noticed the ninja. Will submit, then address.
Record:
Town 10W/15L
Scum 4W/1L
Other 2W/2L
Newbie 1L


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Post Post #1356 (ISO) » Sun Oct 24, 2010 7:35 pm

Post by Ythill »

Miyu wrote:I would say the two scum would be between those not voting. I would assume that they either were not around to hammer, or wanted to wait for town to hammer - so their hands would be clean.
I checked that. Every one of them posted while you were at L-2. And we're not talking about the hammer. Rather, we are talking about the safer vote to L-1, which would set up a town hammer. I mentioned that too, in the post you are misrepping.
Miyu wrote:What is a meta-game Ythill? Comparing past games to current games?
Playing in a manner that understands people do such things. Playing in a manner that increases your win percentage regardless of alignment.
Miyu wrote:Again, #1327 is not a case, as it does not detail why you think I am scum. But merely sets up possible relationships on your wrong assumption that I am scum.
Stop it with your cases this, cases that. You're being silly. #1327 is carefully assumption-free. I examined the actions of each player from two PsoV: you-scum and you-town. The you-town ones didn't explain why you never made it to L-1 after mod iso 48. The you-scum ones did. Then I asked you for an alternate explanation and, after stalling, you blathered something vague that doesn't answer the question.

You
still
can't (or won't) narrow down your suspects. WTF?
Record:
Town 10W/15L
Scum 4W/1L
Other 2W/2L
Newbie 1L


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Post Post #1357 (ISO) » Mon Oct 25, 2010 11:46 am

Post by Mr.Sandman »

I don't really know where to start.

Miyu, if you're still talking about post 1113, then I've answered you twice already, and I didn't say anything about finding you scummy (although I do moreso now), I said that at that point, Wacka's actions had done enough to give me a scum read on you.

Ythill, you asked for an explanation of my change to DP. I generally approach scumhunting as gathering evidence for and against a person and weighing up that up against each other and the other candidates and deciding who I think is scummiest, which is how the game is played generally, I think. Every so often though, I think there are certain posts, whether it be what is said, or how it is said, or when it is said, that I think are only things that scum would say. I think Wacka's last post was such and have thought so, pretty much ever since. For the DP lynch, I was aware of the impending deadline, and that made me also start to think that maybe I had been overemphasising that one particular thing. It couldn't've been an entirely scum driven wagon, a Miyu lynch definitely wasn't happening, and I had found DP scummy so it seemed like a decent bet.

With the benefit of hindsight, and with what I've read through today, I'm back to where I was on Miyu. I think it's noticeable how Miyu was willing to hammer DP, but then disappeared for the few days before the lynch, potentially in an attempt not to be as strongly as associated with the lynch as she might have been. Her responses to questioning today, for example – the overly aggressiveness, which avoid any real defence and consist mainly of accusing people of not having arguments against her, seek to undermine the arguments put against her, rather than actually doing anything to disprove the points made.

I'll add more on other people tomorrow hopefully. I don't have any clear idea who Miyu's scum partner would be.
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Post Post #1358 (ISO) » Mon Oct 25, 2010 7:22 pm

Post by RedCoyote »

Posts like that make it really hard for me to see a connection between Sandman and Miyu.

My gut tells me not to write Sanxion off, but the facts really don't lie. There's a connection between Miyu and ZF that doesn't really exist between any of the other possibilities I can think of. Maybe I'll look into ZF/Sandman tonight and see if there's anything to that.
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Post Post #1359 (ISO) » Mon Oct 25, 2010 10:24 pm

Post by Ythill »

Mod: Please prod Zero.


I'm going to be a little busy for the next couple of days. Not V/LA by a long shot, but also nowhere near the level I've been posting at. This is probably a good thing, as it will give people time to catch up...

I intend to iso the players I skipped over yesterday, and to take a second look at my own #1327 to make sure I'm not overlooking something, but probably not until Thursday or later. I'd love to see hito's Miyu-ZF analysis, as well as anything else he'd like to throw into the record. I'd also like to see substansive posts from the unconfirmed players, perhaps a case from each against his or her lead suspect.

Also, please answer this... is there any among you who will
not
vote with myself and hito when the time comes? If so, please explain why.
Record:
Town 10W/15L
Scum 4W/1L
Other 2W/2L
Newbie 1L


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Post Post #1360 (ISO) » Tue Oct 26, 2010 7:09 pm

Post by Miyu »

Yes, a case which says why you think I am scum. Because that post is all about saying I am scum based off of possible connections with other people. Which boils down to, you think I'm scummy because of others. Not because of something I did. Which is straight bullshit. If you think I am scum, then effing say sow. Now. Instead of trying to prance around the issue.

Why do I need to narrow my suspects down Ythill? I am entirely free to look at everyone. That is how I play the game, if you think I'm going to change my playstyle to fit your's and your arsekissing 'lover' Hito, you are ridiculously mistaken.

No, I'm not "still talking about that post" Sandman. In one of your last posts you acknowledged that you still had things to address which I had asked you. If you can't actually read the thread and keep up with these things, then please seek a replacement.
What the hell are you talking about Sandman? I had my vote on DP since the beginning of the Day yesterDay. So please quote where I was 'willing to hammer DP.'. You do realize that
mallow
was lynched yesterDay right?

Please outline your reasons for thinking I am scum, Sandman. Now. Ones which exist in reality, and not ones which are based on Wacka alone, or exist solely in your head based off of false information. Go.
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Post Post #1361 (ISO) » Tue Oct 26, 2010 7:10 pm

Post by Miyu »

By the way, you almost crack me up Sandman. Going with what ever way the wind happens to be blowing.
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Post Post #1362 (ISO) » Tue Oct 26, 2010 7:12 pm

Post by Miyu »

For your ease Sandman, since you seem extremely incapable of it.

[quote=Me]Sandman. What are your opinions on RedCoyote, Mallow, and Switz? You specifically said that I was scummy since the Wacka days, which I believe implies that I have done scummy things. Please point those out. It really is not a difficult task. If you are going to think someone is a particular alignment and say it vocally; then you really should back it up with some sort of reasoning and evidence. Especially when asked nicely./quote]
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Post Post #1363 (ISO) » Wed Oct 27, 2010 9:38 am

Post by hitogoroshi »

Miyu wrote: Why do I need to narrow my suspects down Ythill? I am entirely free to look at everyone. That is how I play the game, if you think I'm going to change my playstyle to fit your's and your arsekissing 'lover' Hito, you are ridiculously mistaken.
First, when did it become "arsekissing" to listen to the confirmed townie who's done a bucket-load of analysis? o.O

But the big thing. I think that maybe you're not quite understanding why your "playstyle" needs to change in this lover endgame, so I'm going to explain it nice and slow.

7 alive, four votes required for a lynch, 2 scum, 5 townies.

It's LYLO today, because if we mislynch, the scum will nk one of Ythill or I and win a 2:2 endgame.

Ythill and I are two of the five townies. What that means is that if we are both voting the same person, there is NO way an all-townie wagon can be formed on anyone else. So once Ythill and I make our choice, the only way scum will be lynched that day is if they are the person we chose.

You ask, "why do I need to narrow down my suspects?" Here's why -
if you vote separately from Ythill and I, your vote will not lynch scum and the town will lose.


So, if you're town, your number one goal right now should be finding the scumteam and convincing Ythill and I to vote for them with you. Instead, you are demanding that we spend our time NOT scumhunting, but instead repackaging our arguments against you in an easy-to-refute format. But I don't care, and you shouldn't either. If there is a specific point regarding you you want to comment on, our analysis has all been posted in-thread. Otherwise, you should focus your energies hunting the scum and reporting your findings to us so we can incorporate it into our analysis. Make sense?

(Miyu <---> ZF analysis should be coming later tonight.)
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Post Post #1364 (ISO) » Wed Oct 27, 2010 8:13 pm

Post by RedCoyote »

ZF talks about Sandman and Sanxion about the same amount... virtually nothing. He brings up Sandman a couple of more times, but it's mostly fluff. He votes him in the RVS and he quotes him a couple of times to say his posts are funny or he agrees with them. Throughout the whole game ZF has only asked Sandman, like, two questions, and they were both about Muthaa.

It's actually kind of comical. ZF can be paired with just about anyone living in this game. His play is that neutral.
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Post Post #1365 (ISO) » Wed Oct 27, 2010 9:52 pm

Post by DizzyIzzyB13 »

I'd post a vote count here, but unless I've missed something, I don't think anyone's actually voted yet today. Please direct me where to look if I've just missed it.

I'm still seeking a replacement for Sanxion.
Show
DizzyIzzyB13: For the record, I /ghooked Cogitate :p
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DizzyIzzyB13: Cogitate is shorter. :(
DizzyIzzyB13: Sorry, CD
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Post Post #1366 (ISO) » Thu Oct 28, 2010 8:00 am

Post by Miyu »

Again^5. Learn to read Hito.
AgainAgainAgainAgain. Respond to the two/three/four other things which I directed at you in previous posts.
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Post Post #1367 (ISO) » Fri Oct 29, 2010 10:22 am

Post by Ythill »

Sorry I've been slacking on this game. Due to a busy week IRL, I've had limited time for in-depth analysis, and another game has been absorbing that time.

Right now, I think Miyu and ZF are the scumz. I do intend to do more research before we lynch. Hopefully very soon. Maybe even today/tonight.
Record:
Town 10W/15L
Scum 4W/1L
Other 2W/2L
Newbie 1L


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Post Post #1368 (ISO) » Fri Oct 29, 2010 11:43 pm

Post by Ythill »

Digging through the thread...

The SV Quicklynch

I'm keeping two things in mind. First, SV was not a tactical bus because there's no way the scum are going to sacrifice half their team before D3. Second, the turning point in the wagon was my predecessor's case in #622; votes before that point were speculative but, afterwards, a lot of town-aligned players were giving the lynch obvious momentum. Here's how each of the unconfirmed reacted...
  • Sandman:
    made a safe but reasonable, early vote on SV; attacked Wacka; continued to attack Wacka while defending every alternative to the SV lynch and pressuring SV; made a couple of fluff posts; and accepted the reasonable part of Wacka's defense. Post lynch, he expressed his pleasure with the rest of the town.
    My townread is even stronger after looking at this.

  • Wacka:
    attacked Don while worrying about impulse votes; stalled while promising several cases, including a defense of SV and an attack vs. Don; pushed Xite as an info lynch; posted a case against Don (which included two more minor slips that I missed earlier, see below); and defended himself against Sandman.
    His motivations seemed scummy but his actions were very overt. If he's scum, he's not very good at the game. Of course, this is Wacka Alpaca we're talking about here. Aggressive mind games FTW.

  • Sanx:
    defended Don; discredited Wacka; slipped onto the SV mid-wagon, citing agreement with Switz.
    Prima facie, his play looks fine. My only issue is that he was the only unconfirmed player to vote after the turning point.

  • Smash:
    made his own early vote on SV, breaking a two vote tie between SV and Don, then vanished for the rest of the day.
    Could have been distancing. Of note is that SV responded to Smash's case but hardly mentioned anyone else's.

  • ZF:
    lurked, pushed an Xite lynch, then went back to lurking. Post lynch, he seemed displeased.
    This is exactly what I'd expect scum to look like on D2 in this game. Major scumpoints.
While making his case against Don in #640 Wacka based two of the points on tacit assumptions of other players being town. I didn't catch these slips, but Don mentioned them when he defended himself in #660. The players were David and Sandman. So now we have Wacka looking like he forgot he's not supposed to know who is town regarding four different players. Three of them are now dead and confirmed town. This adds scumpoints to Miyu's slot and earns townie-brownies for Sandman.
Record:
Town 10W/15L
Scum 4W/1L
Other 2W/2L
Newbie 1L


"So yeah, it is a sign from the angels." ~CooLDoG
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Post Post #1369 (ISO) » Sat Oct 30, 2010 6:44 am

Post by Miyu »

When were you going to explain why you though Sanxion was another town read, Ythill?
Hi.
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Post Post #1370 (ISO) » Sat Oct 30, 2010 8:43 am

Post by Ythill »

I don't usually explain townreads. I may make an exception this game, but no time to do so right now. I intend to iso him soon so, probably then.

Still in the middle of my busy week. And, in fact, today and tomorrow are the busiest.
Record:
Town 10W/15L
Scum 4W/1L
Other 2W/2L
Newbie 1L


"So yeah, it is a sign from the angels." ~CooLDoG
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Post Post #1371 (ISO) » Sun Oct 31, 2010 5:41 am

Post by DizzyIzzyB13 »

Update: We may have a Sanxion replacement.
Show
DizzyIzzyB13: For the record, I /ghooked Cogitate :p
ChannelDelibird: Well, for the record, FUCK YOU
ChannelDelibird: ;_;
DizzyIzzyB13: Cogitate is shorter. :(
DizzyIzzyB13: Sorry, CD
ChannelDelibird: Well, at least that's the first time a girl has told me "it's not short enough"
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Post Post #1372 (ISO) » Sun Oct 31, 2010 1:14 pm

Post by Ythill »

Sweet.

Still sorta V/LA, but there's a light at the end of the tunnel.
Record:
Town 10W/15L
Scum 4W/1L
Other 2W/2L
Newbie 1L


"So yeah, it is a sign from the angels." ~CooLDoG
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Post Post #1373 (ISO) » Sun Oct 31, 2010 4:53 pm

Post by hitogoroshi »

Miyu:
Townies have a pressure to scumhunt right now. Scum don't. If scum found they had an "excuse" to not contribute, they would take it. A townie will WANT to scumhunt regardless of whether or not they HAVE to. So a good way to root out scum in the eleventh hour is to give them an "out", an excuse to avoid showing up in LYLO, and see if they take it. I've given gradually specific hints in case you were a townie but now I'll just say it. I want to hear about who you think is scum; I have no interest in discussing the case on you with you. I do not need to learn to read, I'm very specifically refraining from discussing the case on you with you to see if you respond from a townie perspective of "well I'll just find the scum anyway" or the scum perspective of "hah! Until he answers my questions, I don't have to do jack!".

It's abundantly clear now that you feel no particular pressure to find scum. Still, on the off chance you're a townie who's just decided to be difficult, here are the answers to the not-really-relevant questions:
Please quote where I said that I've "provided plenty of transparent content." Because I don't recall saying or implying any such thing. I showed you a starter of where I have given my opinion, which was in direct response to you saying that I had not given any opinions. Two totally different things. So please, quote where I said such a thing. Thanks.
Providing transparent content is what a good townie does and what a good scum at least pretends to do. Maybe you never actually said you were trying to be a good townie, but I assumed such. Sorry?
If you and Hito are lovers, it is rather comical - because you both shared the same ridiculous idea that bandwagoning is not a scumtell. Which it is. Otherwise, exactly what are you basing your vote analysis on?
Don't know if you were counting this as an "unanswered question", but vote analysis involves looking at votes in context, incongruities with actions and votes, the climate of the game at the time each vote was placed, etc. Vote analysis is certainly not contingent on a heavy-handed "bandwagoning is a scumtell" to function.
Wow. Hito. Wow. You're such an idiot. Firstly, grooming a mislynch of mallow? WTF are you talking about? Please QUOTE FOR ME, where I ever mentioned that I was going to vote for mallow. Because I am fairly effing sure that I didn't. Seriously, this is beyond ridiculous. Please oh please let the real lovers claim, like now. Oh but wait. You don't respond when you are countered on your 'solid points'. But please, continue kissing Ythill's ass.
The idea behind "grooming a mislynch" is that you DON'T vote for a player that looks scummy, and try to leave them alive as lynch-bait later. I don't expect to find you mentioning you would vote for him.
The reason I was 'ignoring' as you call it in terms of Red. Was mainly because he was modding another game that I replaced into - and I found the entire situation odd. Playing in a game with someone who was modding another game I was in. Was it intentional? No. But you are seriously making a mountain out of a wormhole. You have this preconceived notion that I am scum. What reasons are those Hito? Oh yes, I believe you've never said. The facts and information lead to the conclusion. You Hito, are doing it backwards.
I'm doing supporting analysis at the behest of Ythill. Yes, I started by saying "I'm looking into the feasability of a Miyu/RC scumteam." I literally asked what a good scumteam to start with would be. Sometimes you look at facts and information and reach a conclusion: sometimes you start with a hypothesis and see how likely it is in light of the evidence. Neither one is "backwards", both have their place.

There. I've answered your questions, and the answers didn't really have any bearing on anything. Do not turn this into an argument. Look for scum.

Miyu <---> ZF coming in a separate post to avoid wallspam.
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Post Post #1374 (ISO) » Sun Oct 31, 2010 5:07 pm

Post by hitogoroshi »

Zerofang's Interactions with Wacka/Miyu


His first mention of Wacka is in ISO 23:
Wakka: I don't remember the game I played with him very well. I'm wishing I did. Posts like this make me lean towards a town read, but posts like this and this make me think that he's scum. Fairly scummy.
This is Day 3.

Next comes in ISO 40:
How is this different from the Robo-Zajnet attacks? Robo attacked Zaj, Zaj attacked Robo, and nothing got done and we all vote hopped without cases. Now Zajnet is Wacka, and it's a Robo-Wacka fight. Same old story.

The title seems oddly appropriate. This town DOES have big love - for wagons.
His ISO 43 advocates lynching both Robo and Wacka, with ZF not knowing which one he wants lynched first.

His ISO 50 says this:
@Miyu does that mean mallow/Xite is cleared too? We should only trust what mallow says and forget all of Xite's scummy actions? That's really what you're arguing here. You can't explain Wacka's actions, but unfortunately you have to pay for them all the same.
ISO 62:
@Ninja: Mallow, just out of curiousity, what happened to your read of Wacka as a frustrated townie? You said she's town and then voted her. Your actions and your words conflict. Please explain yourself.
Not sure what to make of this.

ISO 65:
Why is a Miyu-Mallow scumteam not possible? There's two scum left, correct?
His words make a scumteam seem a little unlikely, but he never has followed up on his "suspicion" of Miyu with a vote. I don't see a scumbuddy mentioning "we must continue to judge Miyu by Wacka's actions" in thread, and I don't see a scumbuddy advocating a Miyu/Mallow scumteam, but now that it's LyLO Miyu has dropped off his suspicion list entirely and makes his townie-sounding words ring a little hollow. Call it fair odds of being a scumteam from this end.

Other end tomorrow.
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