Mini 1073: Autumn Mafia - Game Over!

[Oso]

@Oso: Reading is good.

Thank you.

[Equinox]

Granted, general thread trust in me at the moment is pretty low but I do promise if it gets to where I have to claim, I'll happily answer that and the bolded in my above post.

Why not now, before you forget?

[Oso]

Granted, general thread trust in me at the moment is pretty low but I do promise if it gets to where I have to claim, I'll happily answer that and the bolded in my above post.

Why not now, before you forget?

Thought process short version then. Something I thought initially pointed to a player being scum turned out not to be what I thought it was. The opposite in fact. I caught it when I was doing the post for my case against ICE. That is why I put the disclaimer at the top of the post. I didn't make the second post (obviously).

Those who have voiced concerns that my Post 241 doesn't makes a lot of sense or flow very well, that is why. Almost half of that post was yarded out by me but I still think it got the general point across I was trying to make.

[Netopalis]

Hello, everybody! I am now confirmed and will be posting tomorrow with my thoughts.

[Equinox]

Well, guys, if you ever need a lesson on how to dodge questions, 277 is the way to go.

[Netopalis]

Skim-through is complete. I'll read it again later, but for now....

WHY THE HECK IS LLAMARBLE NOT DEAD? Seriously, he is the most obvious scum that I have seen in months. Nevermind the fact that I haven't seen any scum in months. Let's examine the reasons:

1) Pressing a case against Fernando for lurking when Perardura is lurking even worse
2) Setting up an obviously false scumteam accusation on page 2 (the accusation regarding IceNinja and Shattered Viewpoint)
3) Accusing more than half of the players other than him, most for rather weak reasons:

[quote=Llamarble]Perardua has been online but hasn't posted.
Cruelty hasn't done much at all except make a very weakly reasoned accusation against me.
Zinive looked scummy to me earlier, and Equinox's discussion of him seems pretty well reasoned.
I also dislike the general lack of aggressive and insightful scumhunting in Zinives posts,
and there's an uncomfortable amount of unwillingness to commit to anything.
Shattered for contradictions and general lashing out / anti-town behavior.
His interactions with Ice continue to bother me.
Particularly his recent claim that his post voting against ice was intended to "caution Ice" not to get in a fight with him.
That post was very provoking toward Ice, making a reachy accusation and then claiming reasonable certainty that Ice was scum.
Hardly sounds like cautioning. Also "cautioning" is kind of a scummy word and something one scumpartner would do to another.
Fernando has also not contributed much, made a hedgy vote, and in his second post did some fence-sitting on a few issues while being defensive about others.
[/quote]
4) Defensiveness when even slightly touched
5) Starting a wagon against a lurker in a BaM game
6) Refusing to criticize a wagon which he started


It's clear to me that he is scum.

Also: Hey, Equinox! Long time no see! Also, a shoutout to M=W, who I know and to Xine, who I know by association.

Vote:Llamarble

[Llamarble]

@Net:
Issue 1: Going after Fernando when Perardua was also visiting but not posting.
I actually did have my vote on Perardua for awhile,
but I wasn't sure what to think of a player who actually just wasn't playing.
I said as much in one of my posts.
Fernando seemed scummy before his disappearance.
Fernando seemed to intend to continue to play, then checked in without posting a couple of times.

Issue 2: Pointing out a potential scumlink between ice and shattered early
I'm just trying to figure out who the scum are;
I don't see how looking for scumlinks is scummy...
Could you explain your complaint further?

Issue 3: Accusing more than half of other players
Again, I'm just trying to figure out who the scum are.
How is it scummy to be examining the potential cases against everyone?

Issue 4: Defensive
I'm town, so me not dying and the town not wasting too much time trying to lynch me is good.
Therefore I defend myself promptly when attacked.
I was a bit harsh with Xine and Oso because I found repeating myself several times to be a nuisance.
What's the complaint here?

Issue 5: Started Fernando Wagon
Didn't you (well, other net) do that?

Issue 6: Didn't think Fernando wagon was particularly scummy
Well, I thought the reasoning behind the wagon was good.
Sometimes the player giving off the most scumtells turns out to be town.

[ICEninja]

Net, who replaced Net (how convenient) made a very strong statement:

WHY THE HECK IS LLAMARBLE NOT DEAD? Seriously, he is the most obvious scum that I have seen in months

And the proceeded to follow this extremely strong accusation with a weak case. As Llama said, PerArdua was simply not playing. Fernando had logged in since posting, and had posted some lame stuff. I think the scum link comment is a null tell, point 5 was completely inane, and the only points that hold any water are the defensiveness and overeager accusations. Definitely not enough to make such an overly strong statement.

[Netopalis]

In my experience, scum will often call a scumgroup early or throw out a wide variety of accusations early in order to avoid being called on the carpet as not producing content. Generally speaking, these arguments are extremely weak and tend to be grasping at straws. The point is that he can't believe that everybody that he has accused thus far is scum, and he's thrown out a lot of cases which are simply attempts to make it look like he's attacking without providing a credible threat to that person's continued existence in this game.

[Antihero]

Iceninja, Netopalis' case isn't faked (though I don't agree with it). Just look at the style of the post; he takes the time to list out his points and I think he genuinely believe this.

Please stop chasing

red herrings

.

Now, if you want to see some acting, I would start here. (Hint: two immediate signs that you know it's acting are fake indignation and self-censorship)

You are really upset about this vote. I made a gut move, based on the imression I got from viewing some data.

you only need to fear this if you are guilty, right?

I didn't really think much about this before, but the italicized part is pretty crappy. So it's just assumed that I have to be scum to call you down on your bullshit? You're acting like only scum don't want votes; that's simply not the case. From my perspective, you just voted the one person I know, for sure, is town. You're making hay; that's scummy.

[Llamarble]

In my experience, scum will often call a scumgroup early or throw out a wide variety of accusations early in order to avoid being called on the carpet as not producing content. Generally speaking, these arguments are extremely weak and tend to be grasping at straws. The point is that he can't believe that everybody that he has accused thus far is scum, and he's thrown out a lot of cases which are simply attempts to make it look like he's attacking without providing a credible threat to that person's continued existence in this game.

I think I mentioned at some point that early accusations have to be at least a little reachy because there's little to go on at that stage.
They absolutely do help produce content.
Then, as more information becomes available, it's possible to make stronger cases.
Looking for scumlinks is helpful because one of the reasonably detectable differences between scum and town is that the scum know who the other scum are and thus may treat them differently.
When I accuse somebody, it's because I find something they have done suspicious.
If a lot of people do suspicious things, I'll make accusations of a lot of people.
I realize not all of them can be scum, but that's no reason to ignore anyone.
When I support a lynch it's because I believe one player is more likely to be scum than anyone else, as Zinive and Fernando seemed.

[AGar]

As noon came closer, things got tenser. The town, obviously more troubled by the night's events, grew more serious with each flying accusation.

Votecount 2.3

Antihero (1)

- Xine

ICEninja (2)

- Me=Weird, Oso

Llamarble (1)

- Netopalis

Me=Weird (0)

-

Netopalis (0)

Oso (3)

- Antihero, ICEninja, Equinox

PerArdua (0)

-

Equinox (0)

-

Xine (0)

-

Not Voting (2)

- Llamarble, PerArdua

With

9

alive, it takes

5

to lynch.

Oso

is the current wagon leader(s), at

L-2

Deadline is Sunday, November 7th, 2010 @ 11:59 PM EDT

[ICEninja]

Net, I don't think

all

of your points are really terrible, I just feel like they're on the weak side. Which is interesting because probably your only decent point against him is that he made a lot of weak cases.

Iceninja, Netopalis' case isn't faked

Faked? Since when is pointing out that his case isn't strong enough to justify the force of his statement means I'm accusing him of faking a case? I just noticed how adamant he was that Llama was scum, and proceeded to provide fairly lackluster reasons for it.

Please stop chasing red herrings.

I'm going to assume that your understanding of a red herring is the very generalized meaning of anything that is distracting, because you didn't use the word correctly at all if you're considering the actual meaning of the word. I saw a discrepancy between conviction of a read and reasons to find someone scummy. I pointed this out. How in any way shape or form is this a red herring?

I don't like Anti's attempting to direct attention away from Net, especially considering how Anti doesn't like Net's case against Llama either. I feel like there is a conflict here.

[Antihero]

Yes, I am trying to direct attention away from Net, toward Oso, because he deserves it and isn't getting it!

Why are

you

being so obstinantly blind to his scuminess?

[ICEninja]

Why are you being so obstinantly blind to his scuminess?

Do you even know where my vote is?

[Antihero]

lol. No I didn't.

[Equinox]

Deadline is on Friday. The Oso wagon needs some lovin'.

I had some observations written up yesterday, but it seems I didn't post it. Bah. I'll rewrite it later. In a nutshell, though, lynch Oso. Look at his behavior toward the FeRnAnDo lynch and then look at how he uses that behavior to defend himself. If that hasn't convinced you, look at his behavior today. He's been called out on a flimsy case, but he's done nothing to rectify it or reassess. I also highly doubt Oso ever had a "second suspect," since he's been unable to properly answer my demands.

Hoping to hear from Netopalis when he's read the thread in more detail. In any case, Netopalis, I'm interested in hearing more about your sixth point:

6) Refusing to criticize a wagon which he started

Why is it more likely that scum would do this than town?

Iceninja, Netopalis' case isn't faked (though I don't agree with it).

...how did you go from "This case is weaksauce" to "This case is fakesauce"? >_>

[Oso]

Busy day yesterday and some good news at the end of it so :

@AGar: I will be replacing out, if possible. (even if it is not this will be last game post) PM to follow explaining why.

Apologies to AGar and the players here for having to do this particularly at this point in the game. I was having loads of fun with it too.

[Equinox]

@_@

[Oso]

I'm still here for a bit so short version at Equinox since I am having trouble not telling this to anyone who will listen.

The Ex-Mrs. Oso is thinking she no longer want's to be an "Ex", something I have been working on since roughly 5 minutes after the divorce process started. So going to see if there is something still there to build on. As much as I like playing mafia, I have to say it didn't even make the first cut when it came to freeing up spare time.

[Oso]

Forgot to add the half dozen or smileys that should go with that at various points



and the one that probably best describes the news when we talked last night as I never did expect it to happen.

[ICEninja]

Um alright, congratulations.

I was having loads of fun with it too.

I don't see how town would be having loads of fun with this game considering what has happened so far. I believe his reasons for replacing out, but I really think this guy is scum. Deadline is in 2 days, let's not bother with a replacement. I don't even think there's much need of a claim, due to how many dead town PRs there already are. I've been suspicious of Oso from the get go of this day, and all the points made against him have been increasingly convincing.

The activity level is disgusting, but whatever. The sooner this game is over the better anyway.

If we have a vig, if we mislynch today

do not shoot under any circumstance because if you miss we literally lose

. If this is a 9:1:3, then we're in mylo right now and Oso better be scum. If we hit scum and you

really

think you have another scum pegged then fine, but it'll be on your ass if it sends us to premature lylo.

[Antihero]

Iceninja, Netopalis' case isn't faked (though I don't agree with it).

...how did you go from "This case is weaksauce" to "This case is fakesauce"? >_>

A case can be weak, but that doesn't necessarily point to the deliverer of it being scum.

A faked one does though, so that's what I'm more concerned with.

[Netopalis]

I'll support an Oso lynch in a deadline situation....But I'd really like to hear from more players.

[Equinox]

Congratulations, Oso! Wishing you the best!

A case can be weak, but that doesn't necessarily point to the deliverer of it being scum.

A faked one does though, so that's what I'm more concerned with.

Not what I asked. I was wondering how you interpreted ICEninja's post to mean that he was accusing Netopalis of making a fake case.

I'll support an Oso lynch in a deadline situation....But I'd really like to hear from more players.

Only in a deadline situation? What do you think of the cases against Oso so far?