Succession Mafia (OVER!)


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singersigner
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Post Post #2400 (ISO) » Thu Nov 04, 2010 8:52 pm

Post by singersigner »

Lord Gurgi wrote:I get the distinct feeling nothing is being accomplished any more.
I also get the feeling that Ooba is a recruiter for the team that Andrius and RC are not on.
I doubt that their cult is just Recruiter + 2 cops, since I think that cult recruited Robo first, therefore they are part of the larger cult. We don't want to lynch someone the larger cult wants to lynch.

TL:DR; I won't lynch Ooba, because I can't honestly believe you're all still town.

Yos: Just humour me and tell me your feelings on an Ooba wagon. What wagon would you prefer if any?
Let me get this straight...you think Ooba is a recruiter (doesn't matter which cult), but you refuse to lynch him?

HEY GUYS, I WONDER WHAT TEAM LORD GURGI IS ON.
Glork and quadz08 are my favorite.

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Post Post #2401 (ISO) » Fri Nov 05, 2010 12:56 am

Post by Mr. Flay »

Darox replaces Katsuki/inHimshallibe, effective immediately. Deadline of "midnight game time" remains unchanged.

Image
Fourth Situation Report of Day Four


[4]
Image ooba (ReaperCharlie, singersigner, gandalf5166, xvart)
[3]
Image Erg0 (Andrius, Chronopie, Flameaxe)
[2]
Image gandalf5166 (Erg0, ooba)
[1]
Image Yosarian2 (
Katsuki
Darox)

Image
Holstered: Lord Gurgi, Porochaz, Robocopter87, Yosarian2


With fourteen alive, it will take eight drawn weapons to kill someone.
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Post Post #2402 (ISO) » Fri Nov 05, 2010 1:24 am

Post by Darox »

Apparently I have a gun pointed at an awesome dude. I should stop that.
Holster


Time to burn through 97 pages in a short amount of time.
If anyone could give me a summary of how they think the game currently stands, that would also be dandy. I might ask specific people in future, but whatever.
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Post Post #2403 (ISO) » Fri Nov 05, 2010 1:26 am

Post by Porochaz »

Tip: Day 1 is pretty much a waste, start at day 2.
Mostly retired. Unless you ask or it's something interesting.
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Post Post #2404 (ISO) » Fri Nov 05, 2010 2:51 am

Post by ooba »

When did chrono claim and why ?
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Post Post #2405 (ISO) » Fri Nov 05, 2010 2:59 am

Post by ooba »

Also the one more investigation on ooba plan is bad. Unless it's something tied to that specific night, then it'll probably be no result again (assuming the cops are real and true)..
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Post Post #2406 (ISO) » Fri Nov 05, 2010 3:53 am

Post by Darox »

I just noticed Day 1 stretches all the way to page 52 and I am thus far only up to page 30.

This is it, isn't it. This is Mafia hell.

In other news, I would appreciate it if Ooba, you could give me your general opinion of how the game stands as is.
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Post Post #2407 (ISO) » Fri Nov 05, 2010 5:08 am

Post by ReaperCharlie »

Darox, here might be a good place to start reading. That said, don't hesitate to re-read AFTER you read this. In fact, I'd be upset if you didn't.

What we Know


General


1. There are two recruiting factions with one recruiter each. This is splained in the modposting.
2. Current speculation is that cultscum factions can either recruit or kill, once per night.
3. All players who started as town have role PM flavor about what they want to do when this is over.
4. It's pretty much LyLo. Unless you're in the big cult. See "Yosarian2" below for more info.

Role Info


1. There are cop-like roles called Enforcers. This is confirmed by flips and claims.
----
- Claimed Enforcers are: Andrius, ReaperCharlie
----
- Flipped Enforcers are: Furcolow
----
- Flavor includes them knocking people out and determining their alignment at night. This is confirmed.
2. There are one-shot-vig roles called Loose Cannons. This is confirmed by flips and claims.
----
- Claimed Loose Cannons are: ooba, singersigner
----
- Flipped Loose Cannons are: zwetschenastyface
----
- One of the claimed Loose Cannons has claimed that you can forfeit your vig shot for a double-vote. This is unsubstantiated.
3. There are roleblocker roles (called ______s?). This is confirmed by modtext and claims.
----
- Claimed roleblockers are: Chronopie
----
- Unclaimed roleblocker(s) exist(s).
----
- These roles have prostitute flavor. This is evident in the modposting and confirmed by multiple players.
4. There are roles called Bodyguards. This is confirmed by flips.
----
- Flipped Bodyguards are: dramonic
----
- Unclaimed bodyguard(s) probably exist(s).

5. There is one claimed "Cult Doctor" role. This is unsubstantiated.
----
- Claimed "Cult Doctor" is Robocopter87. There are no further claims or flips regarding this role.
----
- This role is claimed to protect its target from being recruited by either cult on the night they are protected.

Player Info (Living)


1. Andrius
----
- Claimed Enforcer.
----
- Claimed Targets:
--------
- ReaperCharlie N0 (town)
--------
- ooba N1 (no-result)
--------
- Lord Gurgi N2 (town)
--------
- Yosarian2 N4 (cultscum)
2. Chronopie
----
- Confirmed roleblocker.
----
- Targets: _____ N0, _____ N1, was blocked himself on N3, Flameaxe N4.
3. Darox
----
- We know nothing about Darox. Predecessors were lurky and/or nonexistent.
4. Erg0
----
- We know nothing about Erg0. Has been disproportionately lurky and nonconfrontational.
5. Flameaxe
----
- We know nothing about Flameaxe except that he was blocked by Chronopie on Night 3. This is confirmed.
6. gandalf5166
----
- We know nothing about gandalf5166. Has been disproportionately (and uncharacteristically) lurky.
7. Lord Gurgi
----
- Was investigated by Andrius AND ReaperCharlie on N3, both got a town result.
8. ooba
----
- Was investigated by Andrius AND ReaperCharlie on N2, both got a NON-result.
----
- Claimed Loose Cannon.
----
- Claimed to have shot zwetschenasty on N1.
9. Porochaz
----
- We know nothing about Porochaz. Has been acting like a buzzkill since D1, and has contributed nothing.
10. ReaperCharlie
----
- Was investigated by Andrius on N0, with a town result.
----
- Claimed Enforcer.
----
- Claimed Targets:
--------
- Faraday N0 (flavor indicated that Faraday had been bodyguarded, effectively blocking the investigation)
--------
- ooba N1 (no-result)
--------
- Lord Gurgi N2 (town)
--------
- Chronopie N3 (town)
11. Robocopter87
----
- Claimed "Cult Doctor" (still unsubstantiated as a role).
----
- Claimed Targets: _____ N0, Andrius N1, Andrius N2, Andrius N3, Andrius N4.
----
- Could have been blocked, does not know.
12. singersigner
----
- Claimed Loose Cannon.
----
- Was the one who claimed that Loose Cannons had the ability to trade their 1s-vig for a double-vote.
----
- Claimed to have actually made the trade, and a vote labeled "?????" appeared on the vote-count in addition to hers.
----
- There is no way of knowing if that was actually HER vote, or if it was linked either directly or indirectly to her role.
13. xvart
----
- We know nothing about xvart. Has been on crack for the latter half of the game. ;P
14. Yosarian2
----
- Was investigated by Andrius on N3 to be recruited cultscum.
----
- Has claimed that his cult is small and that the other is much larger.


Disclaimer:
The above is from my memory, and is very likely missing quite a few things. I would appreciate it if you'd all volunteer information (already known or not) so we can get all this sh*t taken care of. Because this game is stretching too long and I'm getting rather sick of it. Either way, if you see anything that is WRONG, or MISSING, please let me know, and provide the correct information.


Player Info (Dead)

----
- Furcolow (Niccolò,
Unrecruited Enforcer
), was taken down Day One.
----
- dramonic (Dante,
Unrecruited Bodyguard
), was murdered Night One.
----
- zwetschenwasser (Gianni,
Unrecruited Loose Cannon
), was executed Night One.
----
- Faraday (Martino,
Unrecruited Goon
), was shot down Day Two.
----
-
Seraphim
Me=Weird (Ignazio,
Recruited Goon
), was assassinated Night Two.
----
- Friend (Juliano,
Unrecruited Goon
), was blown away Day Three.
----
- Nobody was killed Night Three.
Show
"Take me to Pleasure Town!" "Look, the most Glorious Rainbow Ever!" "Do me on it!" -

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Post Post #2408 (ISO) » Fri Nov 05, 2010 5:48 am

Post by ooba »

You have good memory.

Addn for the LC section: Both loose cannons (ss and me) have claimed the double vote use of the bullet part of our role.
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Post Post #2409 (ISO) » Fri Nov 05, 2010 6:01 am

Post by ReaperCharlie »

If you are scum together that is immaterial. That's just you backing up her claim and her backing up your claim, in an endless WIFOMspiral. i.e. useless.

For all I know, she's a loose cannon who STILL HAS her shot, and the whole double-voting thing (which, btw, was ?????, not singersigner) could have been YOU (i.e. a recruiter ability).

If SHE would have gotten a double-vote, there is NO REASON why it would not have shown up as HER name twice on the vote count.

Hence my suspicion that it was not HER double-voting at ALL. And if she was lying about double-voting, what else is she lying about?

And the fact that she WASTED her vig in order to double-vote ONCE, and prove herself as town DOES NOT MAKE ANY SENSE FOR A TOWNIE.

As a matter of fact, it DOES NOT MAKE SENSE FOR RECRUITED-SCUM EITHER, as they would obviously want to use their vig to TRY take out the opposing recruiter.

So the only thing that makes SENSE is that she PRETENDED TO WASTE HER VIG in order to substantiate her claim (which ONLY YOU can 'confirm', conveniently), but NOT ONLY to substantiate her OWN claim, she's doing it to substantiate YOUR claim.

i.e. PROTECTING HER RECRUITER.





I implore you people to open your eyes. All of this is easily seen if you just open your eyes. Just friggin' lynch ooba. You'll be proud of yourself when he flips recruiter. Seriously.

Whoever DOESN'T want to lynch ooba is either obviously a recruit of his faction (the larger one, according to Yos), or is blinded by his fake-claim.

WHICH MAKES NO SENSE, BY THE F@#&ING WAY.

Seriously. If ANYONE has ANY questions about the ooba case, just ask me and I will do my best to walk you through it step by step.
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Post Post #2410 (ISO) » Fri Nov 05, 2010 7:31 am

Post by ooba »

The point being that when compiling a list of claims, you shouldn't get facts wrong. That you think it's a pack of lies should not tar what is an objective document. That it might be false is clearly expressed in the word "claimed".

Responding to points:
- My role PM clearly states that name won't be associated with double vote.
@RC - you can add this above too.
@SS - Noticed another clause to the double vote when scanning the PM. Can you tell me what it is? (RC's situation where double vote might not be a LC action while not likely should be investigated)
- If you read one of my posts today, you can see I had a similar thought on ss's double vote. First thought was ss was a recruiter who got an LC and wanted to use that. (You missed that possibility by the way) But after rereading a bit, ss's reads more suboptimal townie play than anything else. "Don't attribute to complex scum theories, what you can attribute to VIness"
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Post Post #2411 (ISO) » Fri Nov 05, 2010 8:10 am

Post by Porochaz »

Ah yes, have contributed nothing because I don't agree with your stupid splaffing and I wasn't going to but I saw 2 out of your first 4 points are fundamentally flawed so lets go through the whole goddamn useless post.
ReaperCharlie wrote:Darox, here might be a good place to start reading. That said, don't hesitate to re-read AFTER you read this. In fact, I'd be upset if you didn't.

What we Know


General


1. There are two recruiting factions with one recruiter each. This is splained in the modposting.
WRONG! Multiple recruiters is what it says. There could only be one cult, you have just arbitrarily decided otherwise.
2. Current speculation is that cultscum factions can either recruit or kill, once per night.
CORRECT. However it is speculation.
3. All players who started as town have role PM flavor about what they want to do when this is over.
When was this stated?
4. It's pretty much LyLo. Unless you're in the big cult. See "Yosarian2" below for more info.
WRONG!(possibly) You have once again assumed we have 2 cults, and even a bigger/smaller cult. Yet you have absolutely no evidence for that unless you are a cult member and even then, you would still not know fully if there are in fact 2 cults.

Next bit is summarising all the info so cult can look at it easy and pick off people/recruit people a lot more easier than normal...
Role Info


1. There are cop-like roles called Enforcers. This is confirmed by flips and claims.
----
- Claimed Enforcers are: Andrius, ReaperCharlie
----
- Flipped Enforcers are: Furcolow
----
- Flavor includes them knocking people out and determining their alignment at night. This is confirmed.
For Andrius only. You could (and Im getting the horrible feeling that you are) just be copying Andi.
2. There are one-shot-vig roles called Loose Cannons. This is confirmed by flips and claims.
----
- Claimed Loose Cannons are: ooba, singersigner
----
- Flipped Loose Cannons are: zwetschenastyface
----
- One of the claimed Loose Cannons has claimed that you can forfeit your vig shot for a double-vote. This is unsubstantiated.
That's pretty much true. Also the reason we probably should ignore ooba as a candidate today, which you aren't.
4. There are roles called Bodyguards. This is confirmed by flips.
----
- Flipped Bodyguards are: dramonic
----
- Unclaimed bodyguard(s) probably exist(s).
Says who? You have added another bodyguard with no concievable proof.
5. There is one claimed "Cult Doctor" role. This is unsubstantiated.
----
- Claimed "Cult Doctor" is Robocopter87. There are no further claims or flips regarding this role.
----
- This role is claimed to protect its target from being recruited by either cult on the night they are protected.
Its fairly substantiated in that Andi who Robo has been protecting has recieved original results, (collaborated :roll: by you) and surely since he has been a substantial asset and threat to the town he would be culted or killed by now. I think we can safely assume Robo is a cult doc, if not town anymore. (which is likely but debatable)

Again, just even more easier for cult... Im not going to bother quoting the majority of this... just the additional info you missed out.
Player Info (Living)


1. Andrius
----
- Claimed Enforcer.
----
- Claimed Targets:
--------
- ReaperCharlie N0 (town)
--------
- ooba N1 (no-result)
--------
- Lord Gurgi N2 (town)
--------
- Yosarian2 N4 (cultscum)
Claimed Day 1
2. Chronopie
----
- Confirmed roleblocker.
----
- Targets: _____ N0, _____ N1, was blocked himself on N3, Flameaxe N4.
I have M=W written down...
5. Flameaxe
----
- We know nothing about Flameaxe except that he was blocked by Chronopie on Night 3. This is confirmed.

By two people who could be scum together.

Erg0, Darox and him are 3 people who could still technically be recruiter. Flameaxe especially so considering the no kill last night along with roleblocks.
6. gandalf5166
----
- We know nothing about gandalf5166. Has been disproportionately (and uncharacteristically) lurky.
Still could be recruitor.
9. Porochaz
----
- We know nothing about Porochaz. Has been acting like a buzzkill since D1, and has contributed nothing.
I love this, and its done to get a reaction out of me as I feel today, day 1 and for part of yesterday I was contributing, but I also won't put up with shit. Like the stuff that was spewing out of almost everyones mouths day 1. Or like now, where you seem to be heavily after ooba when it's fairly clear he is what he says he is and out of all of you only xvart is coming up with arguments worth listening to at all. You speak loads but in the end you are saying nothing, god even your claim was totally void of content!

Oh and I guess I could be recruiter.
10. ReaperCharlie
----
- Was investigated by Andrius on N0, with a town result.
----
- Claimed Enforcer.
----
- Claimed Targets:
--------
- Faraday N0 (flavor indicated that Faraday had been bodyguarded, effectively blocking the investigation)
--------
- ooba N1 (no-result)
--------
- Lord Gurgi N2 (town)
--------
- Chronopie N3 (town)
Really... what I said above. The fact Im putting a lot of credit into Andi's claim makes this result annoying. It makes certain your not a recruiter... but it seems like you have tried your hardest to be as unhelpful as possible.
11. Robocopter87
----
- Claimed "Cult Doctor" (still unsubstantiated as a role).
----
- Claimed Targets: _____ N0, Andrius N1, Andrius N2, Andrius N3, Andrius N4.
----
- Could have been blocked, does not know.
How is it unsubstantiated at all? and how could he be blocked and not know!?
12. singersigner
----
- Claimed Loose Cannon.
----
- Was the one who claimed that Loose Cannons had the ability to trade their 1s-vig for a double-vote.
----
- Claimed to have actually made the trade, and a vote labeled "?????" appeared on the vote-count in addition to hers.
----
- There is no way of knowing if that was actually HER vote, or if it was linked either directly or indirectly to her role.
No but its a bit of a stretch... however whether singer is a loose cannon is questionable... but suffice to say not a recruiter.
13. xvart
----
- We know nothing about xvart. Has been on crack for the latter half of the game. ;P
Could still be recruiter
14. Yosarian2
----
- Was investigated by Andrius on N3 to be recruited cultscum.
----
- Has claimed that his cult is small and that the other is much larger.
The latter sentence should be disregarded. Putting too much into that line is fundamentally flawed.

Disclaimer:
The above is from my memory, and is very likely missing quite a few things. I would appreciate it if you'd all volunteer information (already known or not) so we can get all this sh*t taken care of. Because this game is stretching too long and I'm getting rather sick of it. Either way, if you see anything that is WRONG, or MISSING, please let me know, and provide the correct information.
Then replace out. Please. You keep collating this data and all it's doing is hurting the town by making sure cult have a one stop shop to all the valuable info. Its ridiculous and despite calling you out on it a number of times, you keep doing it. I know Ive been a dick and hypocrite in one respect most of the game, but when I say, "what you are doing is completely anti town" and then give reasons why most people regardless of alignment would take that as a hint...
Mostly retired. Unless you ask or it's something interesting.
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Post Post #2412 (ISO) » Fri Nov 05, 2010 8:11 am

Post by Porochaz »

I made a bit of a mess with the quotes as Im prone to do, but its easily readable still.
Mostly retired. Unless you ask or it's something interesting.
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Post Post #2413 (ISO) » Fri Nov 05, 2010 8:14 am

Post by Lord Gurgi »

Hey Singer, maybe you haven't figured it out yet, but it looks like one cult is about to have a majority, which means we need to lynch FROM THAT SPECIFIC CULT. That also means that lynching someone from the other cult would be OPPOSED TO OUR WIN CONDITION AT THIS PRECISE MOMENT.

Think before talking, I swear.

Hi Darox. How's it going.
(11:26:07 PM) thesheamuffin: I'm counting gurgi because I would probably make out with him if I were drunk enough
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Post Post #2414 (ISO) » Fri Nov 05, 2010 8:58 am

Post by Darox »

Lord Gurgi wrote:Hey Singer, maybe you haven't figured it out yet, but it looks like one cult is about to have a majority, which means we need to lynch FROM THAT SPECIFIC CULT. That also means that lynching someone from the other cult would be OPPOSED TO OUR WIN CONDITION AT THIS PRECISE MOMENT.

Think before talking, I swear.

Hi Darox. How's it going.
Hi Gurgi. Reading terrible VI play from past days is almost as bad as watching it unfold personally.

What makes you think one cult is about to have a majority? 4 nights seems to imply a maximum of 5 members per cult by now, with one killed, plus whatever the effects of cult doctors/roleblockers had. I'm only up to day 2 so excuse me if there is evidence to the contrary that I am missing.
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Post Post #2415 (ISO) » Fri Nov 05, 2010 9:16 am

Post by Lord Gurgi »

Yos claimed scum and is apparently in a small cult. Some other stuff that I can't remember I think.

I also think that the power roles have all been recruited because of the awful mass claiming and that they've been out and apparently recruited an RB.
(11:26:07 PM) thesheamuffin: I'm counting gurgi because I would probably make out with him if I were drunk enough
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Post Post #2416 (ISO) » Fri Nov 05, 2010 9:33 am

Post by Darox »

I'm going to post this now and then I'm going to finish looking at Day 2 and then I'm going to go sleep before starting on the remainder of the game.

*Notes on the setup*
It seems from my read through that people are dealing with this game the wrong way. You can't just look for scummy play and lynch it. Even if you have amazing accuracy and get a recruit every day town will lose, because cults regenerate. This is compounded doubly so by the fact we (apparently) have 2 cults in competition. To the cults, the town is more like a chaotic resource than an enemy. To win, the cults just need to disadvantage the opposing cult so that in the endgame when the town has dried up, they have the numbers advantage. Town will never win if they don't kill both recruiters in relatively quick succession, preferably starting with the larger cult.

Lynching recruits is a waste of valuable time
, and it also dangerously shifts the balance of power. If one cult gets repeatedly culled while the other goes unchecked, it will end up too numerous for the town & opposing cult to combat, and they will win outright even if they lose their recruiter. Obviously, we don't want this to happen. On the other side, lynching recruits of a dominant cult also only serves to hurt town. It doesn't reduce the size of the dominant cult, it just gives time for the weaker cult to grow in power, while lowering the towns weight and thus their overall chances of winning.

*This may have already been said and I haven't reached it yet, in which case I apologize for repetition and making assumptions about peoples cult knowledge
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Post Post #2417 (ISO) » Fri Nov 05, 2010 9:45 am

Post by Lord Gurgi »

Yeah that's been said, some people are just not listening.
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Post Post #2418 (ISO) » Fri Nov 05, 2010 10:04 am

Post by ReaperCharlie »

Porochaz wrote:
ReaperCharlie wrote:1. There are two recruiting factions with one recruiter each. This is splained in the modposting.
WRONG! Multiple recruiters is what it says. There could only be one cult, you have just arbitrarily decided otherwise.
May I direct your attention to Post #1800? Or perhaps Yos2's claim? Or any of the other THOUSANDS of posts made with the supposition that there are UNDENIABLY two cults?

Or have you not been reading the topic at all? OH YEAH THATS IT.
Porochaz wrote:
2. Current speculation is that cultscum factions can either recruit or kill, once per night.
CORRECT. However it is speculation.
That's why I said it was speculation, Dunce Cap.
Porochaz wrote:
3. All players who started as town have role PM flavor about what they want to do when this is over.
When was this stated?
Again, not reading the thread.
Porochaz wrote:
4. It's pretty much LyLo. Unless you're in the big cult. See "Yosarian2" below for more info.
WRONG!(possibly) You have once again assumed we have 2 cults, and even a bigger/smaller cult. Yet you have absolutely no evidence for that unless you are a cult member and even then, you would still not know fully if there are in fact 2 cults.
AGAIN, not reading the thread.
Porochaz wrote:Next bit is summarising all the info so cult can look at it easy and pick off people/recruit people a lot more easier than normal...
So you're saying that as a townie, it's better to try to remember everything and hope everyone else remembers everything, than to try to post it in one centralized location so that we can make better choices as a whole? LOL

I realize by this point you're probably not scum, but you are either an idiot or a terrible player. *begins to ignore Porochaz*
Porochaz wrote:
Role Info


1. There are cop-like roles called Enforcers. This is confirmed by flips and claims.
----
- Claimed Enforcers are: Andrius, ReaperCharlie
----
- Flipped Enforcers are: Furcolow
----
- Flavor includes them knocking people out and determining their alignment at night. This is confirmed.
For Andrius only. You could (and Im getting the horrible feeling that you are) just be copying Andi.
That's a valid concern. I could
absolutely
be lying... especially with my #1883/#1884, where I clearly stated that I was NOT a cop. So I lied either way. OMFG. :P

But I'm not lying about my results. I'm a cop and that's what I got. Believe it or not. If you don't believe it, lynch Erg0. If you do believe it, lynch ooba. Either way, I 100% believe that one of them is a recruiter.
Porochaz wrote:
2. There are one-shot-vig roles called Loose Cannons. This is confirmed by flips and claims.
----
- Claimed Loose Cannons are: ooba, singersigner
----
- Flipped Loose Cannons are: zwetschenastyface
----
- One of the claimed Loose Cannons has claimed that you can forfeit your vig shot for a double-vote. This is unsubstantiated.
That's pretty much true. Also the reason we probably should ignore ooba as a candidate today, which you aren't.
Have you even READ my ooba case? Do you even think it's POSSIBLE that ooba is lying? Everything points to it.

Nothing he has said or done is substantiated by anyone else in any way, yet you seem positively convinced that he can't possibly be lying.

Have you ever even PLAYED with ooba before?
Porochaz wrote:
4. There are roles called Bodyguards. This is confirmed by flips.
----
- Flipped Bodyguards are: dramonic
----
- Unclaimed bodyguard(s) probably exist(s).
Says who? You have added another bodyguard with no concievable proof.
Well, there are at least three claimed enforcers, at least three claimed loose cannons. 2+2=? Oh wait, I forgot you were an idiot.
Porochaz wrote:
5. There is one claimed "Cult Doctor" role. This is unsubstantiated.
----
- Claimed "Cult Doctor" is Robocopter87. There are no further claims or flips regarding this role.
----
- This role is claimed to protect its target from being recruited by either cult on the night they are protected.
Its fairly substantiated in that Andi who Robo has been protecting has recieved original results, (collaborated :roll: by you) and surely since he has been a substantial asset and threat to the town he would be culted or killed by now. I think we can safely assume Robo is a cult doc, if not town anymore. (which is likely but debatable)

Again, just even more easier for cult... Im not going to bother quoting the majority of this... just the additional info you missed out.
So you think it's impossible that somebody made up the cult doctor role? That sounds like a perfect gambit for scum who wants to create a 'follow the cop' situation for the rest of the game because OMFG he couldn't POSSIBLY be recruited CUZ OF DA CULT DOCTR DUDE! And of course you don't think for a second that there have been ~8 recruiting attempts thus far, and that Robo could also be lying. LOL.

And before you say it: Yes, I got the same results as Andrius twice, but the point at which we stop using our heads and thinking of every possibility is the point at which we LOSE. You've already stopped, so I take it you don't care any more. Either that or you're already recruited. Heck I know I said you were probtown earlier, but you're such an idiot that it might be feasible that you're just a scum VI.
Porochaz wrote:
5. Flameaxe
----
- We know nothing about Flameaxe except that he was blocked by Chronopie on Night 3. This is confirmed.
By two people who could be scum together.
I JUST investigated Chrono last night and he's town. He claimed blocking Flameaxe, and Flameaxe confirmed the flavor. So who are you saying is scum together?
Porochaz wrote:Erg0, Darox and him are 3 people who could still technically be recruiter. Flameaxe especially so considering the no kill last night along with roleblocks.
Porochaz wrote:
6. gandalf5166
----
- We know nothing about gandalf5166. Has been disproportionately (and uncharacteristically) lurky.
Still could be recruitor.
Yes. Erg0, Darox, Flameaxe, and gandalf5166 ARE the top recruiter picks left. Unless you suspect ooba has been pulling a fast one. Which I do. What do you think of the no-result?

What POSSIBLE explanation would explain a no-result on him?
Porochaz wrote:
9. Porochaz
----
- We know nothing about Porochaz. Has been acting like a buzzkill since D1, and has contributed nothing.
I love this, and its done to get a reaction out of me as I feel today, day 1 and for part of yesterday I was contributing, but I also won't put up with shit. Like the stuff that was spewing out of almost everyones mouths day 1. Or like now, where you seem to be heavily after ooba when it's fairly clear he is what he says he is and out of all of you only xvart is coming up with arguments worth listening to at all. You speak loads but in the end you are saying nothing, god even your claim was totally void of content!

Oh and I guess I could be recruiter.
No. A recruiter wouldn't act like a VI (at least on purpose). You are completely stupid and don't even bother saying otherwise.
Porochaz wrote:
10. ReaperCharlie
----
- Was investigated by Andrius on N0, with a town result.
----
- Claimed Enforcer.
----
- Claimed Targets:
--------
- Faraday N0 (flavor indicated that Faraday had been bodyguarded, effectively blocking the investigation)
--------
- ooba N1 (no-result)
--------
- Lord Gurgi N2 (town)
--------
- Chronopie N3 (town)
Really... what I said above. The fact Im putting a lot of credit into Andi's claim makes this result annoying. It makes certain your not a recruiter... but it seems like you have tried your hardest to be as unhelpful as possible.
I could have just not said anything. Do you believe that I'm a cop or not? Or do you think I'm just recruited-scum trying to mislead the town? And if so, HOW COULD I BE DOING THAT IF WHAT I'M DOING IS F@#$ING CONFIRMING WHAT ANDRIUS ALREADY SAID.

I SWEAR, YOU ARE ONE OF THE MOST DENSE PEOPLE I'VE EVER MET ON THIS SITE.
Porochaz wrote:
11. Robocopter87
----
- Claimed "Cult Doctor" (still unsubstantiated as a role).
----
- Claimed Targets: _____ N0, Andrius N1, Andrius N2, Andrius N3, Andrius N4.
----
- Could have been blocked, does not know.
How is it unsubstantiated at all? and how could he be blocked and not know!?
He could be recruited into the same faction as Andrius, and is now only pretending to "cult doc" andrius every night, when he could be just coordinating with his cult leader on who NOT to doc, so that they can "cult doc" whoever the rival cult might want to recruit, and make sure to miss who HIS recruiter wants to recruit.

Right now, the ooba(rec)/singersigner/Andrius/Robocopter/????? cult looks like the rival cult that Yos2 spoke of. Oh wait, you still don't believe there are 2 cults lololol
Porochaz wrote:
12. singersigner
----
- Claimed Loose Cannon.
----
- Was the one who claimed that Loose Cannons had the ability to trade their 1s-vig for a double-vote.
----
- Claimed to have actually made the trade, and a vote labeled "?????" appeared on the vote-count in addition to hers.
----
- There is no way of knowing if that was actually HER vote, or if it was linked either directly or indirectly to her role.
No but its a bit of a stretch... however whether singer is a loose cannon is questionable... but suffice to say not a recruiter.
If singersigner is NOT a loose cannon, then she is DEFINITELY a recruiter. She has not proved her role at all. All we have to go on is what she/ooba say. If we lynch one of them and they flip scum, then we know the other is scum as well. And vice versa. I don't get how you're not seeing this.

Otherwise we go into tomorrow only knowing as much as we did before about the whole situation with them. They are either both scum, or both town. And no townie would waste their vig shot. And NO scum would waste their vig shot either, unless by doing so they thought they could prove their townieness. And what BETTER reason to waste your vig shot than to "confirm" your RECRUITER (who has 2 no-results from cops) as TOWN.

THE PIECES ARE ALL THERE, JUST ADD THEM UP.

IDIOT.
Porochaz wrote:
13. xvart
----
- We know nothing about xvart. Has been on crack for the latter half of the game. ;P
Could still be recruiter.
True. But I doubt it due to my town read on xvart.
Porochaz wrote:
14. Yosarian2
----
- Was investigated by Andrius on N3 to be recruited cultscum.
----
- Has claimed that his cult is small and that the other is much larger.
The latter sentence should be disregarded. Putting too much into that line is fundamentally flawed.
What reason does he have to lie about that? And even if he is, what difference does it make? I was listing info.
Porochaz wrote:
Disclaimer:
The above is from my memory, and is very likely missing quite a few things. I would appreciate it if you'd all volunteer information (already known or not) so we can get all this sh*t taken care of. Because this game is stretching too long and I'm getting rather sick of it. Either way, if you see anything that is WRONG, or MISSING, please let me know, and provide the correct information.
Then replace out. Please. You keep collating this data and all it's doing is hurting the town by making sure cult have a one stop shop to all the valuable info. Its ridiculous and despite calling you out on it a number of times, you keep doing it. I know Ive been a dick and hypocrite in one respect most of the game, but when I say, "what you are doing is completely anti town" and then give reasons why most people regardless of alignment would take that as a hint...
I have nothing to say to you, because you're obviously an idiot. Since scum know more than town ANYWAY, and are making their own lists in their own QT's ANYWAY, we might as well do it here. If we hope that they rely on OUR lists, and then decide not to make any, JUST SO THEY CAN'T USE OUR WORK TO WIN, then we are defeating ourselves. The fact that you've been on MafiaScum this much longer than me, and STILL don't see that, is pretty pathetic.
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"Take me to Pleasure Town!" "Look, the most Glorious Rainbow Ever!" "Do me on it!" -

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Post Post #2419 (ISO) » Fri Nov 05, 2010 10:08 am

Post by ReaperCharlie »

Darox wrote:I'm going to post this now and then I'm going to finish looking at Day 2 and then I'm going to go sleep before starting on the remainder of the game.

*Notes on the setup*
It seems from my read through that people are dealing with this game the wrong way. You can't just look for scummy play and lynch it. Even if you have amazing accuracy and get a recruit every day town will lose, because cults regenerate. This is compounded doubly so by the fact we (apparently) have 2 cults in competition. To the cults, the town is more like a chaotic resource than an enemy. To win, the cults just need to disadvantage the opposing cult so that in the endgame when the town has dried up, they have the numbers advantage. Town will never win if they don't kill both recruiters in relatively quick succession, preferably starting with the larger cult.

Lynching recruits is a waste of valuable time
, and it also dangerously shifts the balance of power. If one cult gets repeatedly culled while the other goes unchecked, it will end up too numerous for the town & opposing cult to combat, and they will win outright even if they lose their recruiter. Obviously, we don't want this to happen. On the other side, lynching recruits of a dominant cult also only serves to hurt town. It doesn't reduce the size of the dominant cult, it just gives time for the weaker cult to grow in power, while lowering the towns weight and thus their overall chances of winning.

*This may have already been said and I haven't reached it yet, in which case I apologize for repetition and making assumptions about peoples cult knowledge
No; this is solid. Which is why I want ooba lynched. Because I think he's the larger cult's leader.

Please read my posts and let me know what you think of the mountain of evidence against ooba.
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"Take me to Pleasure Town!" "Look, the most Glorious Rainbow Ever!" "Do me on it!" -

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Post Post #2420 (ISO) » Fri Nov 05, 2010 10:16 am

Post by Yosarian2 »

Erg0 wrote: I'm curious why Yos didn't answer my question about his recruiter's name.
(shrug) I don't see how it benefits my side at this point. There's no reason for me to just share random information here.
Lord Gurgi wrote: Yos: Just humour me and tell me your feelings on an Ooba wagon. What wagon would you prefer if any?
I still think it's unlikely ooba is a cult recruiter, because I don't see him faking that claim as a recruiter, although I don't have any explanation for the odd cop results.
I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie
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Post Post #2421 (ISO) » Fri Nov 05, 2010 10:22 am

Post by Darox »

This is pretty much just stream of conciousness as I worked through the thread.

Day 1:

- I really want to see furcolow & vezokpiraka not be here by the time I reach day 4.
- Add ReaperCharlie to the "I hope I don't have to deal with him" list
- What is with all this caps lock. Really guys?
- Maybe I should listen to porochaz and skip ahead, this stuff is mind numbing.
- Add gandalf to that list.
- I HAVE A BAD META SO IT'S OK HE HAS A BAD META SO IT'S OK YOU HAVE A BAD META SO Oh god make it stop.
- Yosarian probably did get recruited N0. He's also right that voting him based on that assumption is dumb and also that recruiters are #1 priority.
- Oh jesus there are even more pointless and terrible acronyms since last I played.
- I don't really like pretty much everything Ooba has done today.
- Really animorph should have been on the list from the start.
- Why with the soft claims. Especially you Andrius.
- Dram's appearance after being called out for lurking and his subsequent comments don't feel right to me.
- Ergo, Faraday and Chrono have had pretty much 0 presence so far.
- Both sides of Andrius vs xvart is making Andrius look bad.
- "I need meta to form any kind of opinion on <name>"
ihateyouihateyouihateyouihateyou

- Porochaz and Gurgi are playing sensibly. They are rare gems in a river of slurry.
- This alliance is a terrible thing and the idea should never have been conceived.
- RC: You're bringing up two-word posts from 28 pages ago as new points of discussion? Really? REALLY?
- I could not dislike the way Andrius is softclaiming more. In fact, you're going on the list, even though I know you're still alive.
- "No, I'm not outguessing the mod, I'm just trying to figure out role placement based on mod flavour" Why do you do this to me RC?
- "Here are two games where dramonic is scum. This proves that dramonic is scum." Sigh. I can't even get worked up about this any more.
- Andrius: "Teehee I'm totally not a mason you guys" Forget what I just said, this is awful.
- Oh boy more meta discussion
- "their posts, which I haven't even read yet, just FEEL like scum" This game is filled with winners.
- This quote by Andrius is hilarious "You've got idiotic vezok going "LOLOLOL i don't help the town at all but I'll sit here and softclaim some type of helpful role and be USELESS"."
- Oh man, Andrius is a gold mine: "I'm going to be cutesy and coy and constantly softclaim, but get REALLY upset when forced to commit to a claim"
- Still don't like Ooba's actions.
- After an agonizing final page, Day 1 is over, hooray. A terrible player who happened to be a cop got lynched. Unfortunate.

Day 2: Electric Boogaloo


- Ooba seems positive that the cults cannot kill at all. Why?
- Ooba's claim gets backed up by singer who claims an identical role, but I'm not too enamoured by Ooba's responses to the wagon.
- vezokpiraka continues to be a waste of space.
- On review, the cults not being able to innately kill makes some sense, and would also explain the abundance of weakened power roles.
- RC again points out that Yos is probably a recruit, and then Andrius has a very strange response. He suggests that scum would want a vig over potentially VT Yos, and that he would do so in the cults shoes. (Sure, makes sense, no problem with hypotheticals) He then proceeds to cite meta
(Seriously, what)
to back this up. Why? Why why why would you ever do this?
- Gurgi coming in and making some sense, especially about the cult cross fighting, then RC gets all dumb in response.
- "VI's exist, and you have to learn to deal with them"
No.
No, and screw you for saying that. No, and screw you for
thinking
that. That is the most poisonous thing you could possibly do.
- xvart doing some good stuff.
- RC's case against Ooba is the opposite of compelling
- Oh god it's even more softclaiming I hate you people.
- Singer suspects Ooba of fakeclaiming. Uhhh. The potential of singer being cult buddies with Ooba is pretty much the only reason he isn't 100% confirmed as a LC. Unless you are suggesting Ooba had access to a rolecop's results N0?
- This entire Faraday thing just looks messy.
- People... can't count? There's a bunch of speculation about cult powers and night kills that seems not know what 1, 2, & 3 mean and how they are different from each other.
- RC: "I was right about a lynched townie being town and Yosarian was wrong! THIS MAKES EVERYTHING I SAY GOSPEL" Ugh.
- Oh hey Yosarian also realizes that Ooba is almost certainly a LC and thus not a recruiter.
- The slow wrapping up of Day 2 is pretty ugly, but people at least seem to be realizing that recruiters are the #1 priority now.
- A cultist gets shot, and we don't get any idea of what side he is on. Massive blow to the town information wise, but what can you do

Other Stuff

Time to state the obvious again and say that people like Yosarian who are almost certainly recruits, assuming two competing cults, can be trusted, just as long as you keep in mind they are only working against the enemy cult, not for the town as a whole.

Now I'm going to go sleep, then come back with days 3-4 and conclusions.

Preview Edit: That's pretty much what I'm talking about. Yosarian isn't a friendly chummy buddy doing his best to help the town, he's still part of a cult. He's helping us because he wants to eliminate or cripple the other cult and the town is still the major player in this game, and he also knows we can't really afford to go around lynching recruits. Assuming he's going to hand us a list of names of his fellow cult members is absurd.
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Lord Gurgi
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Lord Gurgi
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Post Post #2422 (ISO) » Fri Nov 05, 2010 2:11 pm

Post by Lord Gurgi »

Anyone entertaining the notion that RC fakeclaimed and recruited Andrius ages ago since we stopped even considering power roles as lynch targets?
(11:26:07 PM) thesheamuffin: I'm counting gurgi because I would probably make out with him if I were drunk enough
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Flameaxe
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Post Post #2423 (ISO) » Fri Nov 05, 2010 2:19 pm

Post by Flameaxe »

I don't find it impossible, but I don't find it probable.
Defined by who I dislike, not who I like~
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Flameaxe
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Post Post #2424 (ISO) » Fri Nov 05, 2010 2:19 pm

Post by Flameaxe »

Oh and RC vs. Prozac feels silly and distracting right now.
Defined by who I dislike, not who I like~

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