Mini 1079: Midnight Mafia- Game End

[slowsilver]

By making random posts at the start of the game I hope to create some relaxed banter within which scum may slip up - I also like watching people's reactions to random posts, they often cannot deal with them and pass them off as scummy distractions

[Mitsuru Kirijo]

I can live with Kira.

Nat doesn't seem very concrete with his opinions. Everythings slightly this, slightly that, or a null tell altogether. Why post an all round player opinions list... only to tell us you've got no real opinions? Consistency and saying what you mean is town, in my book. It would have been better to post the players you see as scummy and leave it at that at such an early stage of the game.

TL;DR: Text walls don't equal quality. Be concrete before you post your reads.

[horrordude0215]

shouldn't have gotten so trigger happy.

unvote. vote: netopalis.

remember this?

Wait, but NETO shouldn't have been so trigger happy? Hypocrisy noted.

@Mitsuru: If you're calling out anyone for avoiding RVS, it should be Zdenek. I mean, he's putting as much BS logic down as possible to try and make a vote look serious, even though you can tell it's just a blatant bandwagon vote.

Why only call out Zdenek about it? Didn't neto bring up the same points? Or was it just because Zdenek VOTED because of it? What's more, what's wrong about early bandwagoning in the game?

cool. so let's lynch you, then me, then horror, and everything will be absolutely terrific.

Wait, what? Why do any of those make sense?

my vote for horrordude came in response to his random vote for parama: he passed it off as humorous, but it still smells funny and i'm not entirely sure there wasn't more too it.

Wait what? My RVS vote is "funny" because I picked Parama over 2 other people and then joked about it? Maybe you are more like your username than I thought...

@Nexus 88 - Please explain the vote... it looks like your just blindly parroting right now.

[Nexus]

88? wtf?

I said, I think that Parama's being distracting to the town by being obnoxious. He's taking focus away from everyone else, and that's nothing but detrimental to the town, in my opinion.

[Zdenek]

By making random posts at the start of the game I hope to create some relaxed banter within which scum may slip up - I also like watching people's reactions to random posts, they often cannot deal with them and pass them off as scummy distractions

So, as town, you write random posts that people will pass off of as scummy distractions? I can't see how you could hope to use posts that you think others will ignore to gauge their reactions.

I view this as either an attempt to create wifom (if he is writing posts that seem like scummy distractions then he isn't scum) or simply as a way to discourage people from paying attention to him in case he does something scummy. Either way, I don't like it.

Unvote
Vote slowsilver

[Parama]

88? wtf?

I said, I think that Parama's being distracting to the town by being obnoxious. He's taking focus away from everyone else, and that's nothing but detrimental to the town, in my opinion.

Holy crap, this is the worst logic I've ever heard.
I'm not really being that obnoxious, considering I'm doing better scumhunting than you.
Anti-town =/= scum, but I am not anti town regardless.
You are voting someone based on them being anti-town (in your misinformed opinion) and not because they're scummy. This is why your vote is bad.

[Nathanael]

FTR: Effort is not a towntell. I can show you 2 personal examples of me putting a crapton of effort into a game as scum.

I know it is not a town-tell. But at least he shows cooperation. Since we are at the start of the game, it is the only thing I have to judge him. Also, don't forget, that putting effort into post does make scums life more difficult. If he is scum, because he will have to keep it up in the future and therefore will be more likely to slip, if he is town, because he will be more likely to catch scum. So, putting effort into posts is definitely something that helps town in the long run.

No, effort isn't a tell, but it does distinguish between those with roles and those vanillas. Vanillas at the start of the game have very little to go on and very little to look forward to, while a cop would perhaps put a lot of effort in to see some reactions from people in order to know who to investigate that night, and a mafia goon would put a lot of effort in to mix up the mixing jug as it were, vanillas just don't have that much to go on or do at the beginning of the game. It is later on with the analyses that things get more involved for everyone.

This, again, is crap. If a town players wants to hunt scum, he does so regardless of role. A vanilla townie, exactly

because

he has no info, has no other choice but hunt harder for scum. They can't just sit back and hope to get a good investigation result.

re: kana's last post. not fair to criticize neto for trying to protect parama from a mod kill. it was honorable of him regardless of his alignment. the more interesting bit is where neto calls parama a good town player. not sure if that's a slip. can't tell either way, but it made me raise an eyebrow. and if you have been paying any attention to neto you'd see him describe his policy of requesting reasons for votes on at least two separate occasions. it's definitely not buddying.

well, the thing that "made you raise an eyebrow" is that he called Parama a good town player. Your definition for that sort of thing is slip, my definiton is buddying. In the end the tell is the same.

Nat doesn't seem very concrete with his opinions. Everythings slightly this, slightly that, or a null tell altogether. Why post an all round player opinions list... only to tell us you've got no real opinions? Consistency and saying what you mean is town, in my book. It would have been better to post the players you see as scummy and leave it at that at such an early stage of the game.

I did that so everybody knows where I stand so you can follow how my reads develop. And I did it because Kanashimi asked me for it.

shouldn't have gotten so trigger happy.

unvote. vote: netopalis.

remember this?

Wait, but NETO shouldn't have been so trigger happy? Hypocrisy noted.

are you just trying to misrepresent people or didn't you understand that nocase talks about himself when he says that he "shouldn't have gotten so trigger happy".

I said, I think that Parama's being distracting to the town by being obnoxious. He's taking focus away from everyone else, and that's nothing but detrimental to the town, in my opinion.

do you think he is scum, yes or no?

By making random posts at the start of the game I hope to create some relaxed banter within which scum may slip up - I also like watching people's reactions to random posts, they often cannot deal with them and pass them off as scummy distractions

So, as town, you write random posts that people will pass off of as scummy distractions? I can't see how you could hope to use posts that you think others will ignore to gauge their reactions.

I view this as either an attempt to create wifom (if he is writing posts that seem like scummy distractions then he isn't scum) or simply as a way to discourage people from paying attention to him in case he does something scummy. Either way, I don't like it.

Unvote
Vote slowsilver

I think I can agree with this.
UNVOTE: VOTE: slowsilver

[Nexus]

Alright, I've slept on it, and I made a rash decision voting for Parama. You're right, anti-town/obnoxious behaviour isn't a scum tell. I was blinded by my distaste for the way he was treating Nathaneal, and I shouldn't have let that influence my vote. I'll

unvote

I will do a re-read when I return from semi-v/la, but my FoS on slowsilver still seems valid.

[Parama]

unvote, vote: Nexus

lol appeasement

[slowsilver]

Quick backtracking there Nexus!

By making random posts at the start of the game I hope to create some relaxed banter within which scum may slip up - I also like watching people's reactions to random posts, they often cannot deal with them and pass them off as scummy distractions

So, as town, you write random posts that people will pass off of as scummy distractions?

I can't see how you could hope to use posts that you think others will ignore to gauge their reactions.

I view this as either an attempt to create wifom (if he is writing posts that seem like scummy distractions then he isn't scum) or simply as a way to discourage people from paying attention to him in case he does something scummy. Either way, I don't like it.

Unvote
Vote slowsilver

Italics my own - the fact that there is so much discussion about them proves that they aren't just ignored. Those reactions have already given me a scum-tell and I am searching for more.

Alright, I've slept on it, and I made a rash decision voting for Parama. You're right, anti-town/obnoxious behaviour isn't a scum tell. I was blinded by my distaste for the way he was treating Nathaneal, and I shouldn't have let that influence my vote. I'll

unvote

I will do a re-read when I return from semi-v/la,

but my FoS on slowsilver still seems valid.

You have never explained your FoS on me. You are just regurgitating what others are writing about me, you aren't doing any scum-hunting. The moment that anyone puts pressure on you to explain yourself you suddenly shrivel up and then pass an FoS so as to attempt to justify the rest of the post: 'I can't think of any reasons, but it's okay because Slowsilver is still defo scum'.

For that reason

Vote: Nexus

[Zdenek]

the fact that there is so much discussion about them proves that they aren't just ignored.

Then why did you first emphasize that people might pass them off as scummy distractions?

slowsilver on Nexus:

You are just regurgitating what others are writing about me

This part of your argument is ridiculous. One shouldn't have to come up with an original argument if there is already a case out there that they agree with.

[slowsilver]

I meant 'try to pass them off,' the fact that they are just gives clues.

Was the rest of my argument sound?

[nocase]

zdenek, why are you defending nexus before he has the chance to defend himself?

[horrordude0215]

88? wtf?

I said, I think that Parama's being distracting to the town by being obnoxious. He's taking focus away from everyone else, and that's nothing but detrimental to the town, in my opinion.

Let me quote your 88 for you, because you obviously don't get it.

Ok, posts have been made whilst this has tried to gone through.

I'm going to vote: Parama and FoS: Slowsilver

Looking at my post I said parroting... My bad, I meant bandwagoning. You didn't explain what about the posts made you change your mind or anything of the sort. Hence, the accusation.

Unvote, Vote: Nexus

But Parama DOES have a point... you seem to be pushing almost a Policy Lynch rather than a Scummy Lynch.

are you just trying to misrepresent people or didn't you understand that nocase talks about himself when he says that he "shouldn't have gotten so trigger happy".

My bad, I thought he said that Neto was trigger happy.

[Zdenek]

zdenek, why are you defending nexus before he has the chance to defend himself?

I was attacking slowsilver's argument, not defending Nexus. I think the case on Nexus for appeasing and backtracking is fine.

[nocase]

so the fact that his argument is (debatably) illogical means he's more likely to be scum?

[Nexus]

BV310:

Hey, bv310, WHERE ARE YOU?

Erinyes:

ditto, although at least you posted :3

horrordude0215:

Sorry, I was confused what you meant by 88. I'm used to people putting post 88/#88, I thought you were just throwing a number at me. Senior moment.

I wasn't blindly parroting, at that precise moment, I was irritated as hell with the way Parama was trolling Nathanael. Scumhunting's one thing, being an ass is another. I voted him because he was the first to jump out as "anti-town." Obviously, I need to make the distinction between "anti-town" and "scummy," which, after thinking about it, I realised that "anti-town"=/="scummy", and so I removed my vote whilst I went to look over everything else. I didn't explain why because I didn't have time. I removed my vote because a) I realised that I was policy voting, which is bad. I at first didn't make the distinction between anti town and scummy, as I had only read the thread as the new posts were coming in from the 4th til I posted. So, I changed my mind. That's allowed, isn't it? I realise that it looks suspicious that I changed it after pressure, but eh, I came back to votes, I needed to address them. That's the main reason I removed my vote; I decided that whilst being anti-town, it wasn't necessarily scummy, so wasn't the best candidate for a lynch.

I have got pretty town vibes from what little you've posted.

Kanashimi:

So far, I'm getting town vibes from Kanashimi. Made one good analysis post, and actually explained in depth his reasons for voting.

Mitsuru Kirijo:

Ehh. Not really much to go on. Hard to get a read.

Nathanael:

Town vibes from Nathanael. He was understandably wound up by Parama's trolling, but he's posted good analysis.

No, Nathanael, I don't think he is scum. I made a mistake.

Netopalis:

I don't like questions. Not a fan of them. Also, your warning of Parama seemed like a waste of a post. In fact, a lot of your posts have been not really of any use. Im getting slightly scummy vibes, although I do disagree that asking for justification on votes is a scumtell. I think the fact he's posted so much yet said so little is scummier.

nocase:

I'm not a fan of the one line votes, but that's just personal opinion. I don't know if it's your playstyle or not, but it's a null for me. I am trying to decide whether iso #11 was sarcasm, or a genuine attempt to implant in people's minds some kind of voting pattern. If it's the latter, then it's a deviously scummy ploy. You say that you play your cards close to your heart to keep scum in the dark, but what about keeping the town in the dark? Surely it's detrimental to town to not know what you're really thinking? Also, the irony in your ISO #13 is quite impressive, considering your response to neto's request for you to justify yourself, when you basically ask him to do the same. Is it alright for you to ask for justification, but not neto?

Nocase: Iso #14. Surely, if you're thinking that the fact he's obnoxious is not actually a scum tell, that's a good thing for him, should he be scum? If people are thinking "why would a scummer do that?" then they aren't thinking he's going to be scum. That's why acting an ass is sometimes a good thing, provided people don't do policy lynches.

I'm trying to get a decent read on nocase. He seems like he has protown intentions, but the way he goes about it strikes me as slightly scummy. I'd lean towards slightly town, but I'm gonna watch you quite closely, probably.

parama:

I've already discussed my opinion on your obnoxious attitude. I made a mistake. Not a lot I can do about it now. Meh.

You were being more obnoxious than the other players, therefore, quite obnoxious. It's not a misinformed opinion; I found you to be obnoxious. I still find you to be obnoxious, but like you said, anti-town=/=scummy.

Meh. Undecided on you now. Congratulations.

slowsilver:

First seven posts say nothing. Not scumhunting. Not really. I find posting a lot, but not saying much = quite scummy. So I FoSed you. You've done nothing to change my opinion on you.


Out of the group of us, I would say that I still find slowsilver's actions fairly scummy. He's posted more than I have, said as much if not less, and has generally done very little scumhunting. I'm not convinced it's worth a vote just yet, though. Other than slowsilver, I would like to see more from the quieter ones (bv, and Erinyes), and the others I'm watching fairly closely are Nocase, Neto and Parama.

[slowsilver]

Another all-round analysis without any major conclusions drawn up, well-done Mr Nexus!

[Nexus]

Thanks. I'm always seeking your approval babe.

[Nexus]

Also, since it seems to be the stock response: "That's my playstyle."

[nocase]

i just lost my post, so i'll be brief.

re: nexus. iso. 11 was facetious. regarding iso. 13, i was simply wondering what sparked his gut scum read on me; i wasn't asking for logical justification like he was. regarding iso. 14, as a general rule scum have no reason to act the way parama acted—it's a null tell, though, not a town tell, as usually it's more a matter of personality than a matter of alignment.

re: slowsilver. that is patent bullshit. his post included plenty of analysis. he included a number of decent reads.

[Zdenek]

so the fact that his argument is (debatably) illogical means he's more likely to be scum?

At that point, I just wanted to point out the flaw in his logic.

The reason I think slowsilver is scum is that he made those overly intellectual posts concerning Parama's actions. When I questioned him about them he obliquely justified them as part of his play style. I think this is scummy because he easily could have just been straight forward about them. Then he said that people often pass of his posts as scummy distractions, and then he said that he did it to generate conversation. These seem like contradictory motivations to me.

Now he writes,

I meant 'try to pass them off,' the fact that they are just gives clues.

and I have no idea what that means.

[nocase]

At that point, I just wanted to point out the flaw in his logic.

you should leave that to the person he's attacking.

[Nathanael]

At that point, I just wanted to point out the flaw in his logic.

you should leave that to the person he's attacking.

I absolutely do not agree. If you find a flaw in someones logic, you get it out. Flawed logic is one of the most important tools to find scum. I do not say that flawed logic implies scum, but I do think the earlier it is caught the better. If it was intentional, it is very likely a decent scumtell, if not, the one who provided the flawed logic has to exlain why they used that logic in the first place and why they believe(d) in it.

Nathanael:

Town vibes from Nathanael. He was understandably wound up by Parama's trolling, but he's posted good analysis.

What parts of my analysis did you like? Do you agree with everything I said? What didn't you agree with?

Also, since it seems to be the stock response: "That's my playstyle."

how serious is this post?

Quick backtracking there Nexus!

is backtracking inherently scummy in your opinion?

[slowsilver]

Yes, in my opinion backtracking is inherently scummy