Newbie 1022 - Game Over

[TheLonging]

or we could let me live until lylo

e_e

[Kingcheese]

It's logical when you make a case against her but when I personally read her posts I don't see the things you point out. It doesn't really seem scummy until you point something out and I look back at it and say: You know I can see that angle. Hope that clears that up? I'm not sure what exactly your accusation is. That you believe I am in the wrong for believing your argument is logical but not voting for your lynch candidate.

I'd rather lynch Shotty for one reason I seem to be repeating continuously. I do not believe that Avish is scum. And since no one else has pushed any other wagon, except for maybe Vox with Vas, Shotty is the best candidate. Is he town? More than likely. Is their anyone I believe is scum and willing to lynch? No.

[Leech]

That you believe I am in the wrong for believing your argument is logical but not voting for your lynch candidate.

That's close, but not quite. It's not that you aren't voting for my lynch candidate, it's that you're not voting for an actual scum candidate for someone that you believe is most likely town. That's a huge issue. Also, I don't buy the fact that you can understand my case on Avish yet think she's town at the same time. If you understand my case, and you find it logical, then you really can't think she's town under that circumstances. This is especially true when I've linked cases where I've caught scum for playing how Avish is playing. You are saying that you believe she's town, in spite of the fact that she's participated in actions that have resulted in lynching scum in the past. This isn't just my games, but many games. You said it best right here:

when Leech posts something about Avish, I feel as if my sense of reasoning is saying: Look KC, she's Scum that's a fairly strong argument. I'm torn with listening to my gut (Avish is town) and listening to my brain (Avish is Scum)

Right there you state quite blatantly that you believe my case on Avish. When you read my points, your reasoning is telling you that she's scum. A gut read is a completely irrational feeling that is not based on facts or reasoning of any kind. Your gut read is that Avish is town. Your gut read, from what you've said on numerous occasions, is that Shotty is also town. Your brain, however is telling you that Avish is scum. Of course I'm going to cry fowl when I see a player attempting to justify remaining on a wagon they feel is town, when they have said that all the logic is pointing to another player being scum.

Is he town? More than likely. Is their anyone I believe is scum and willing to lynch? No.

That, right there, is my problem with you. You understand my case and find it logical, but you are willingly attempting to lynch a player that you believe is more than likely town. You are opting for that instead of taking a shot at lynching scum. Shotty is absolutely not the best lynch at this phase. Potential scum, however, is.

Regardless of what anyone says, the wagon on Shotty is a PL. While I'm perfectly ok policy lynching distractions like Shotty, it should never happen when there is potential exposed scum. I guarantee you that if we policy lynch, right now, there will be a backlash in the next phase that will put up a giant roadblock that will get in the way of scumhunting. This roadblock will consist, mainly, of theory discussion about Shotty's PL. If we are going to PL in this game, it has to happen after a scum lynch.

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

Official Vote Count

drmyshottyizsik - 2 (TheLonging, Kingcheese)
Avish - 4 (VasudeVa, Leech, LordChronos, drmyshottyizsik)
Leech - 1 (Avish)

Not Voting - 2 (AurorusVox, EggyLv999)

5 to Lynch.

Click for Deadline

[TheLonging]

I already posted reasons for shotty being, by far and large, not a PL. So why do you insist it is? It was in the beginning but look, he's given reasons why we should lynch him now!

[drmyshottyizsik]

Is he town? More than likely. Is their anyone I believe is scum and willing to lynch? No.

OMG! Great reasons!
So what you are saying is that you don't want to use the rest of the day to scum hunt, instead you would rather lynch someone you

think

know is town? WOW HUGE SLIP RIGHT HERE!!!

unvote
vote king cheese

[Kingcheese]

Is he town? More than likely. Is their anyone I believe is scum and willing to lynch? No.

OMG! Great reasons!
So what you are saying is that you don't want to use the rest of the day to scum hunt, instead you would rather lynch someone you

think

know is town? WOW HUGE SLIP RIGHT HERE!!!

unvote
vote king cheese

No, what I am saying is that I do not believe any of the candidates that are getting votes are scum. And that would be Avish. Like I've said before I would rather spend another day scum hunting then lynch someone I do not believe is scum.

If it comes to a point where we have not made a choice by the end of Monday I will reluctantly hammer Avish. I believe Vox is making a post about Avish tomorrow. If he doesn't vote I will because I believe the alternative is a no lynch that Vas pointed out? If someone could clear this up it would be great.

[drmyshottyizsik]

So king WHO THE FUCK DO you think is scum?!

[VasudeVa]

Guys, we have less than 2 days till deadline. We need to hurry up and do stuff.

---

@KC: Why are you defending Avish so much? Is deadline not a good reason for you? We really need to get a lynch before deadline. If anything, it helps narrow down the suspect list by putting away one scummy person.

Can you tell me what about our cases you don't agree with"? Do you honestly think it's better to get rid of shotty than probscum? (On the sidenote, I do understand what he's getting at...since shotty's recent posting is just...horrible. If shotty ever gets a scum victory over me, I don't know what I'll do with myself.)

[drmyshottyizsik]

^^ask BV he almost died

Any way yes I have been sucking, and dealing with some shit, but I'm back and I will actually comitt to this game.
King who are your reads, and if you say me I swear to God

[TheLonging]

Is he town? More than likely. Is their anyone I believe is scum and willing to lynch? No.

OMG! Great reasons!
So what you are saying is that you don't want to use the rest of the day to scum hunt, instead you would rather lynch someone you

think

know is town? WOW HUGE SLIP RIGHT HERE!!!

unvote
vote king cheese

^didn't read

So king WHO THE FUCK DO you think is scum?!

contradictory, said avish for no reason at all. and had no scum read for the whole day.

[Kingcheese]

What I do agree with are swome of the points that Leech have said that I have been refering to such as the OMGUS vote and the point about the games she didn't request links to. My problem is I find her posts genuine to some extent and I feel shes gonna flip town. I'm writing off most of Shotty's behavior as VI when it could be scum. I think Shotty will flip town assuming we lynch him because I feel he is acting VI however we will never know unless we lynch him. I hope that made sense lol.

For a direct answer to your question Vas about me "defending" Avish I wouldn't even consider it defending. I'm trying to show why I would rather lynch Shotty than Avish. My Shotty lynch I have been pushing seems to have receeded and I will most likely hammer Avish if we get to the remaining hours of deadline. Just waiting for Vox's post assuming it is forthcoming.

[AurorusVox]

The ISO that brings with it a thousand punishing fists of fury!

Here's my Avish ISO. It's looking academic anyway since I don't think we'd get enough votes on any other lynch candidate at this point (i.e. its Avish or NL). But I won't spoil the ending. Enjoy!

---

ISO #0:
States her Shotty vote is a pressure vote

ISO #1:
Then mentions the fact that the other votes on Shotty are for a policy lynch, and adds her own reason - the fact that Shotty hasn't turned up to post yet. As I noted at the time, TL had

only just

turned up. Looked like selective vision.

#ISO 3:
Uses the fact that TL had posted to defend against accusations of selectively picking on Shotty's lurking. Bare this in mind for ISO #13.

ISO #4:
The absence of Shotty didn't have anything to do with the vote. Okay...but that was like, the main reason for the vote, or so it seemed earlier.

ISO #6:
Looks like a bit of a mess. Says that voting unpopular players is the norm on NarutoFan but would be against doing that here. I recall that people had made it clear why they wanted to PL Shotty, so the whole dance around it here looks suspect. Not to mention, if she's not sure, why is she joining the wagon? I know this was dealt with earlier, but reading the posts one after another like this really brings out the inconsistencies :\

ISO #10:
This is where she finds VV's scumtells on her suspicious. Bare this in mind for future OMGUS vote on Leech and final lack of Vas suspicion. ALSO says that she is willing to die for the greater good of town.

ISO #12:
Begins with concerns that Shotty is town and how that would make her look bad. If she thinks he's town, retract the vote...Blames Vas for making her look bad in case of a Shotty town-flip. Sounds like she is expecting it.

ISO #13:
Now says that she didn't notice TL had posted when she complained that Shotty posted. So that makes her selective picking on Shotty much worse, and contradicts her earlier defence of said selectiveness. Plays it as a slow-burn revelation as to why she did this - saying that it was because she had questions of Shotty. That's a fair point, but it sounds like it could be retroactive. Then says that "two people" wanting to PL Shotty is more suspect than just one - but surely it's the other way around? Also the PR-gate scandal; concerned with surviving/proving that she's town - which goes against ISO #10. How did I miss this the first time?!

ISO #16:
Now she says "I've been so concerned with proving my own innocence." Direct contradiction to ISO #10 again.

ISO #18:
Claims to be a paranoid townie

ISO #19:
"How many newbie games?" question

ISO #20:
#19's question is "extremely relevant," then in the very same post calls it "random"

ISO #21:
She's immune to newbie-scum tells, apparently. I don't accept that as an argument, everyone is prone to newbie-scum tells on here when they first play as scum.

ISO #22:
Dismisses cases by "chuckling," which I find upsetting T_T Then tries to call the newbie-scum tells issue a contradiction, which I'm not really buying. Then says she doesn't know why she was labelled paranoid (see ISO #18 lol)

ISO #23:
Not really sure why Vas' case seemed legit but Leech's didn't. My opinion was the other way. Also remember way back in ISO #10 where she said Vas' case was suspicious? Apparently she didn't.

ISO #24:
"You might as well just lynch me, for crying out loud" - implicit message for scumbuddy to bus her (Eggy/King)? Also now claims to not be

that

experienced after all. But I thought she was immune to newb-scum tells? Oh - also reveals that she's never played as scum. So, she's the perfect person to fall into newb-scum tell traps. Also says it's standard to defend herself, which again contradicts ISO #10. Also says that the question in #19 wasn't for this game, which is utterly bizarre. If not for this game, why ask about OUR prior experience? It's not going to help in another game. Oh and yay I'm MR. Neutral.


---

I think ISOs always make people look scummy, but in this case I think it's justified. It looks like I'd missed a number of contradictions in her posts, and I PUNISH contradictions with votes. It's also getting to the point where we put up or shut up with regards to lynching Avish, or in fact lynching at all today. I would have declared intent to hammer and hammered tomorrow, but since Shotty has moved his vote, I'll go ahead and:

Vote: Avish

(L-1)

[drmyshottyizsik]

i would rather lynch king, but i will hammer avish on monday if it comes to that

[TheLonging]

ISOs do always make people look scummy, you have to look it up in context. Which is why I largely find Avish town. If Avish is scum I will seriously do some rereading of this thread hardcore, but I maintain that I find Avish town.

[AurorusVox]

Well, the ISO did help to highlight some of the flagrant inconsistencies in Avish's play. Those are scummy, regardless of context :\

[Avish]

Why delay the inevitable, shotty?

I asked about self-hammering before and suddenly I see a reason to self-hammer. The case against me has been built up too much, if I were to live I would only create confusion amongst my fellow townies. That's no good.

I blame myself. I was too sloppy and reckless and it allowed bad guys to build a case against me. I'm sorry about that. Leech will no doubt act all aghast and say I just played terribly and nobody can blame him for thinking I was mafia. Well, I did play terribly, but I don't think that's it and I'll tell you why after a bit of major point clarification.

The whole shotty mess grew out of my personal confusion about PLs. I started to type a lot about that, but it's irrelevant now.

My defensiveness was because, Ta Dah!

I'm the Doctor.

I wanted to save myself because if I lived I could possibly save someone in the night phase. Still the wrong way to be thinking, perhaps, but there you have it.

My random fluff question had nothing to do with the game, but clearly I should have waited 'till after the game to ask it. It is relevant to understanding the site in general, but the placement was random.

As far as the paranoia thing, I just don't understand why it's considered "paranoid" to worry about getting lynched when people are trying to lynch you. In other words, it's not paranoid if people really are out to get you. As far as chuckling, I just figured I was doomed and wasn't going to sweat it.

Oh - also reveals that she's never played as scum. So, she's the perfect person to fall into newb-scum tell traps.

I've only survived to the end of one game...where I was PR mafia.

In game one the vig offed me along with 5 other townies (he wasn't very good XD) and in the third the SK offed me. Ergo, I'm feeling like it's the norm to die young when I'm town. Heh.

You missed that. Not only was I mafia, but I was the mafia doctor. And so far it's the only game in which I survived 'till the end. And just so you know, I had several townies convinced that I was town. Neener neener.

______________________________________________________________

The important part.

Now. I may have thought Vas seemed like mafia when he first started on me, but opinions can change can they not? He still looks a tad shady, he is, after all, the one who started my little wagon, but Leech looks worse to me. He's really the one that got me lynched. As I said before, I find the "new" reasons he came up with a bit weak. Furthermore, he went after me with a certain desperation, demanding other players explain their reasons for not voting for me. It's clear he wanted me dead. Obviously, if he was town and truly believed I was mafia he would want me dead, but it's just a bit unbelievable that he could be so certain without any doubt.

There's more to it than that, however,

I totally role revealed.

Back when people were challenging me because I said the cop should scan me, I said I was thinking the doctor could protect him if he revealed himself. The only way I could be confident of that is if I was the doctor. That, of course, was my plan. Stupid of me, really. Leech's massive assault on me came after that. So yeah, I did pull a newbie move...it just wasn't newbie mafia. Ergo, if Leech is mafia and he noticed (and he strikes me as the type that would be able to pick up on such a thing) he would want me dead. Killing me is more profitable for mafia than killing shotty.

So you see, my vote on Leech wasn't OMGUS at all...I just couldn't reveal the full extent of my reasoning until I was sure I was going to be hammered.

I sincerely hope my death can shed some light on the mafia situation. I'm not 100% convinced of Leech's guilt, he's just my leading suspect at the moment. I recommend looking into it.


I've really enjoyed playing with you guys, despite the way it turned out for me. I promise to pay closer attention and play better in my next game. Good luck townies, I'll be following this game with great interest.

And Leech, I'm not taking anything personal even if you do turn out to be misguided townie. However, you better believe I'll be random voting you if we wind up in another game together.


And now, without further ado:

Unvote

Vote: Avish

*cue that sad song from the Titanic movie*

[drmyshottyizsik]

ok if avish really is the doctor he just made my black list,(which out him in the level of Andrew and HOMJ and Chesskid)
Also he could easily still be scum due to the fact that scum know whether or not there's a doctor or not and he could be pulling for a CC real quick before he dies

[Avish]

Mafia know there's a doctor? Is that true?

And blacklist me all you want, my dear. I feel my self-hammer is actually good for the town in this case. You're just bitter because you wanted to be the one to hammer me and I deprived you of the opportunity.

[drmyshottyizsik]

NO AVISH YOU JUST WASTED A PR!! I WOULD NOT HAVE HAMMERED IF YOU HAD CLAIMED DOCTOR!!!!

[Avish]

Don't be silly. Mafia would have just killed me tonight. I cannot protect myself.

[Avish]

Ah, wait. Killing me would have meant they couldn't kill anybody else. Didn't think of that at the time. But I don't really believe you. I think you would have hammered me no matter what.

[drmyshottyizsik]

if you claim doctor un CC'd day 1 I would have to be obv scum to hammer you

[TheLonging]

You mean you aren't already? Also I see the reasoning for Avish self-hammering, it's still not that good but at least it's not lolhammering.

Now, do you guys still believe Avish is scum gambiting? Or Do you think Avish is telling the truth? If there is a doctor not Avish, DO NOT CLAIM. If Avish is the doctor, we can narrow down the setups to 2.

[Avish]

You already stated that you were willing to lynch me for the fun of it earlier. I have no reason to believe that you wouldn't. You don't seem to be taking this game seriously.

And if, by some chance, I lived through to Day 2 it would just mean more confusion. People would be debating whether I was fake role revealing or not. If I didn't die people would be arguing that mafia would have taken me out if they thought I might be the doctor and since they didn't I must be one of them fake role revealing. Day 2 would be all about me as well. No good. I was set up and I'm done for. Time to clear the air, imo. One mislynch won't sink the town.