Fringe Mafia (Game Over, role PMs posted)

[PogoStick]

I think I began changing my mind when he name claimed, such an obscure name seems more like a safe name claim to me and not his actual name

[TonyMontana]

I agree that Brandon seems like a prime candidate for safeclaim. Not too prominent, but not too obscure.

And given that I suspected fur of itching to use a safeclaim before he claimed, my vote stands firm.

Also, he has yet to answer my question of whether his claim was that of VT or not.

[PogoStick]

Ok so looks like I missed a post by noc and he says something very wrong.

@noc - you say I vote furc and almost immediately unvote him

do you always make up information or is this your first time?

I voted furc on page 1, for the NL

I unvoted him on page 3 and 40 posts later, how is that almost immediately?

Also not a huge deal cause I understan weekends and such but technically you lied again saying you have said that your access on the weekend is limited, you never say any such thing.

Also my vote on you was just to get you more active, people will tend to come and play if they have a vote on them.

[PogoStick]

@LC

I went back and read and your straw man accusation failed as I never twisted anything noc said

I did misread one aspect of his post, I thought when he said" the wagon went too fast" he meant "the wagon went away too fast"

but he still lied when he said I pushed for his lynch, cause I never pushed for his lynch

right now I have caught noc in 2 pretty big lies and one minor one

for those at home the lies

1. I pushed furc's lynch - never pushed anything
2. I voted and quickly unvoted - 12 hours and 40 posts is not pushing
3. Said he posted his activity is limited, he never does - minor lie to possibly excuse his lurking but the Internet issue can be real so that is why I am mostly ignoring this one

[Empking]

Right, I'm back. Give me a minute to catch up. I'll have my first epic to semi-epic post tomorrow.

Focus on reads of every player along with thoughts on the Furc and Hop wagons.

[LordChronos]

@HOMJ

Your straw man had nothing to do with what Noc said. The straw man was your statement about people rushing to lynch. There was no one rushing to a lynch.

Let's look at your second to last post.

Also my vote on you [Nocmen] was just to get you more active, people will tend to come and play if they have a vote on them.

So you voted Nocmen to get him more active?
Let's look at the post where you voted him.

So for right now just based on the misrep of facts

vote nocmen

something about him just rubs me the wrong way, I feel he is acting like he is town

That doesn't sound like you voted him to get him more active to me. That sounds like you were saying you thought he was scum for misrep and seeming like a townie. (Which still makes no sense, by the way.

It is really ironic that you are attacking Nocmen for lying when you clearly are lying about your reason for voting him.

@Nocmen

I need to look back at Fur's WIFOM again, but the idea I was trying to convey with that post was that they both used WIFOM, but HOMJ has done all these other things as well, so I think he is scummier.

[PogoStick]

@did you read where noc said rushing to lynch, not me?

When I voted him he said I was pushing furc's lynch which was misrepresenting facts

the other part of it was left purposefully vague cause I have been told on 2 differen games on site that you don't say it is a pressure vote or it won't be effective, so I followed that advice here. Clearly it worked cause he did become active

[PogoStick]

Also you still don't get it

if you are town, you don't have to act like it cause you are town

acting town is pretending to be town, which would mean he isn't town

also p. Sure noc can defend himself, not sure why you are fighting his battles

[LordChronos]

Does a good town player act like they are town?

And please quote for me where Nocmen said anything about "rushing to lynch"?

When I voted him he said I was pushing furc's lynch which was misrepresenting facts

the other part of it was left purposefully vague cause I have been told on 2 differen games on site that you don't say it is a pressure vote or it won't be effective, so I followed that advice here. Clearly it worked cause he did become active

But just now you said that you voted him only as a pressure vote. That clearly contradicts your earlier claim that you voted him because of a misrep, just as you went from defending Fur to saying he was the scummiest person in the game after I attacked you after your vote on Nocmen.

I am not defending Noc, I am attacking you. Do you understand the difference?

[PogoStick]

You are attacking me for attacking noc, it's a defensive attack.

Find where I said "rushing to lynch"

[LordChronos]

We are just a few days in on the game,let's scum hunt and talk about other people before rushing to lynch. So for right now just based on the misrep of facts

vote nocmen

something about him just rubs me the wrong way, I feel he is acting like he is town

There you go. Now will you tell me where Noc said it? And please answer my question about good town players.

I am attacking you for defending scummy people with WIFOM, using a straw man argument to help justify a vote, and contradicting yourself multiple times.

[PogoStick]

Ok I see where I say rushing to lynch and that came from the part where I read his post wrong, when I thought he was saying furc's wagon was falling apart too quickly, which I have already said earlier I read it wrong. Also
that can really be directed at everyone not just noc cause we don't need to rush to a lynch

straw man, still don't think you have the defiition right cause I don't think I did, if I did it was unintentional

also town AND scum use wifom in this game, seen it hundreds of time so it really isn't a clear cut scum tell

and Im not defending anyone, you on the otherhand are attacking me for going after noc a bit.

[LordChronos]

You still haven't answered my question. And I never said you were defending anyone right now, though you were defending Fur earlier.

[PogoStick]

No a good town player doesn't have to act like anything

his whole thing with me was just his 2nd post and started off with a lie (saying I pushed furc's lynch)

[PogoStick]

You still haven't answered my question. And I never said you were defending anyone right now, though you were defending Fur earlier.

Where was my defense of him?

[Nocmen]

Ok so looks like I missed a post by noc and he says something very wrong.

@noc - you say I vote furc and almost immediately unvote him

do you always make up information or is this your first time?

I voted furc on page 1, for the NL

I unvoted him on page 3 and 40 posts later, how is that almost immediately?

Also not a huge deal cause I understan weekends and such but technically you lied again saying you have said that your access on the weekend is limited, you never say any such thing.

Also my vote on you was just to get you more active, people will tend to come and play if they have a vote on them.

You had your vote on furc, you switched it to me, and then you relatively quickly move that vote back to furc. Which makes no sense because none of the posts furc had between that time really would give you much good reason to vote for him.
As for weekends, I thought it was this game I said it in a post directly, was another, but at least in my sig it's shown that for most of this month, I have limited access during weekends becuase I'll be traveling most of them.
I fail to see where your vote for me was because of inactivity. I understand pressuring the lurkers, but lets look at the post you voted for me in:

Whoa, this exploded when I missed checking up on it last night.

First of all, HOMJ seems quick to push votes early against Fur for the NL. However, that wagon seems to go way too early, with not much reason why. Emp's and Doombunny's votes seem like they could be good scum wagon votes, but it's impossible to tell because Fur seems a bit too eager to defend himself. And the claim. He's too afraid of getting lynched so he's willing to claim at L-3. I want to hear more about his claim, and why he's so eager to defend himself at L-3. I wouldn't vote him just for going for the NL, esepcially if it seemed early in RVS.

do you fail at reading? I ask cause you say I am quick to push votes however I never push votes. I voted furclow for voting no lynch, I provided my reasoning as why NL is not a town move.

I later unvoted cause I have read up on furc's games a little and I see how he plays and lynching him to me seems to be more of a policy lynch, people are voting him just because they latched on to one thing he did.

of course he isn't helping himself by claiming early and asking about mafia fake claims and such, but I really don't think he would be that obvious if he were mafia (of course I could be wrong)

You also say that his wagon seems to go away too early but actually nobody has removed them from his wagon but me, and when I unvoted, somebody else joined it so that is a misrepresentation of facts.

and if you are town and somebody suggested something anti-town like a no lynch, why would you not vote them just for that? NL is anti town, it removes the need to scum hunt and anyone pushing for a no lynch should be voted.

and before anyone questions why I just made that comment and am not currently voting for furc, I unvoted because he indicated he wasn't serious about the NL and also his lynch just seems to convenient, about as easy as a no lynch, and it would eliminate the need for real scum hunting.

We are just a few days in on the game,let's scum hunt and talk about other people before rushing to lynch. So for right now just based on the misrep of facts

vote nocmen

something about him just rubs me the wrong way, I feel he is acting like he is town

You just gave reasons for voting me, and now you're going back and saying "no, I was voting to pressure people who hadn't posted much like you"

@LC

I went back and read and your straw man accusation failed as I never twisted anything noc said

I did misread one aspect of his post, I thought when he said" the wagon went too fast" he meant "the wagon went away too fast"

but he still lied when he said I pushed for his lynch, cause I never pushed for his lynch

right now I have caught noc in 2 pretty big lies and one minor one

for those at home the lies

1. I pushed furc's lynch - never pushed anything
2. I voted and quickly unvoted - 12 hours and 40 posts is not pushing
3. Said he posted his activity is limited, he never does - minor lie to possibly excuse his lurking but the Internet issue can be real so that is why I am mostly ignoring this one

1. If you said that you think he's scummy and you voted for him again, how is that not pushing for his lynch? You also said that you think his claim is a safe claim and not a real claim. That seems like you think he's scummy and want to lynch him to me.
2. As said above, this is more in the time where you voted for me and then switched it and voted towards furc again.

[Nocmen]

To update what I was trying to say, I don't see where you were vague in your vote for me. You gave reasons. But now you're saying they don't matter and it was a pressure vote in disguise? What do you think of those reasons now, do they still stay?
On top of that, a strawman attack is basically that, taking words and misinterpreting them into your favor. That seems exactly what you did.
Between that, and comparing your vote on furc compared to what you say about him, I'm happy with keeping my vote on you.

[PogoStick]

1. Since I'm on my phone most of the time I disable sig's
2. Voting someone is not pushing a lynch, pushing a lynch is trying to convince others to vote him which I haven't. I still don't think you are clear noc but at the time when I had time to re-read from my pc, furc looks better and like I said earlier, furc lynch will let me know what to think of LC, although now I'm left wondering what kind of relationship you and him have cause he jumped on me close to when I voted you, which is a very telling sign.
3. Yes now I want to lynch furc, which is why I am voting him, reading back and getting to loom at the wiki pages this name is too odd to be a regular charachter. Also I had missed he was asking about safe name claims, why if he was town would he care to ask, especially if I'm not mistaken it says so on the front page they do.
4. I need to stop playing on my phone, you guys type too much

[esuriospiritus]

[

VOTE COUNT 1.03

]

"When I mentioned that the poison would kill me within the hour, did either of you happen to notice the time?"

[

4

]

Furcolow

- Empking, Doombunny9, TonyMontana, HopOnMyJoystick

[

3

]

HopOnMyJoystick

- LordChronos, Zang, Nocmen
[

1

]

LordChronos

- Furcolow

Not Voting: sorasgoof, Shattered Viewpoint, foilist13, GhostWriter

---

Day 1 will end on November 25th, 2010 at 2:00 AM EST (Countdown here) or when someone is lynched.

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

---

[

PRODS

]

GhostWriter

has been prodded.

Shattered Viewpoint

requested V/LA until this morning. He will be prodded tomorrow if he hasn't posted yet.

sorasgoof

has a little bit less than an hour to post before he receives a prod.

[PogoStick]

To update what I was trying to say, I don't see where you were vague in your vote for me. You gave reasons. But now you're saying they don't matter and it was a pressure vote in disguise? What do you think of those reasons now, do they still stay?
On top of that, a strawman attack is basically that, taking words and misinterpreting them into your favor. That seems exactly what you did.
Between that, and comparing your vote on furc compared to what you say about him, I'm happy with keeping my vote on you.

I was vague when talking about the gut feeling
I don't think I twisted anyone's words and if I did, I already said it was unintentional
I still FOS you cause of the reasons I said, I was never gonna push a lynch for you until I had something more concrete

[PogoStick]

Oh and as stated twice already the accused straw man was when I said rush to lynch cause I misread noc's statement, I have explained 2 or 3 times how I wrongly interpreted it

[PogoStick]

Sorry to interupt but it just dawned on me

furc, someone asked you a question about your role to go with your name, you plan on answering him?

[Nocmen]

Oh and as stated twice already the accused straw man was when I said rush to lynch cause I misread noc's statement, I have explained 2 or 3 times how I wrongly interpreted it

I understand what you said about your defense of the strawman attack, but that's just a common defense I've seen to the attack: you simply say you misinterpreted it. In essence, to me the attack is when you take someone's words and change them to get a meaning more beneficial to you, trying to get others to interpret them the same way as well. And I'm seeing your defense of it as a common defense when called out on an attack like that.

[PogoStick]

Yeah I realize that it's easy for someone to say that but it is the truth

[LordChronos]

@HOMJ

Read your post where you voted for Nocmen on page 4.