Newbie 1027: Trick or Treat! [Game Over]

[Maniamax]

Well it was made quite clear taht no one should hammer, so I would think it odd if they did =/

Also, it is not that I would favour a agressive first day, but I am more inclined towards lynching Park than anyone else, so I might as well vote

[Thor665]

Newbies are all insane caffeine addicted ninja on crack - there is little point in worrying about "what ifs" with them because who knows what they can do. You pretty much have to roll with it as it happens.

I like aggressive days because, especially with newbies, if you *always* go to deadline they get two wrong impressions;
1. That you always should go to deadline - which is very much not true.
2. That the game is slow and boring and they don't like it and it's not really needed to check in/comment on it. Which leads to long meandering games with a lot of flake outs.

Day 1 (and 2-20) only needs to last long enough for you to get reads on people, feel you have a fair number of scum/town suspects, and to arrange for a lynch. No more, no less.

[andrew94]

alright, max any extra reason why you think park is scm
....

respond to some points made to you ( i think someone questioned you )

[mothrax]

Andrew, i put up with it in redacted but you have never once spelled my name right. Please correct this.
I'm not sheeping either, like I said, I unvoted because that was my RVS vote, no point in keeping it on . Park seems scummy so I voted for park. Would you rather I not vote my top scum read?

[andrew94]

it just seems suspicious that u come back from v/la, find someone who is currently on L2 suspicious, skips my whole post of why i think park is not scum, then vote for him anyway. at least freaking reply to the post which i took long time to write/ read.
and whats 'redacted'

[mothrax]

The last game we played together. It's Mothrax, not morthax.

[mothrax]

You mean your appeal to meta? Meta fails.

[andrew94]

dude i said that when i was scum...

[mothrax]

And I say it whenever, what is your point?

[andrew94]

my point is you are maniamax are oppurtunistic scum
geez

stop using 'im calm' to refute my points

[Huntman800]

my point is you are maniamax are oppurtunistic scum
geez

I'm not getting any real scumminess from Mania, care to explain?

[parknourie]

@ Thor - Why would you ask me something like "Why don't you vote Mothrax?"? Did you? Did Anyone? With what reason except for his jump on the popular wagon?
@ Mothrax - I will not claim unless someone gives out reasonable reasons on why s/he thinks I'm scum with an intention to hammer.

I think I was over-excited for this game...too much expectations.

[andrew94]

hunt, maniamax does almost nothing for a while, then says ' i agree with thor, im on his side' then votes parknourie...

even if thor is right, how does that make park wrong/scum?
oppourtunistoic to sum it up

[Huntman800]

Andrew: Your description of him would have been a decent one for me had Thor not pushed me to ask question. It

could

be a tell, but it could also be the same uncertainty/shyness I have since it's my first game. I guess it could go either way though.

[andrew94]

uncertainty = not voting + sitting on the fence
he is just jumps off the fence

[Thor665]

@ Thor - Why would you ask me something like "Why don't you vote Mothrax?"? Did you? Did Anyone? With what reason except for his jump on the popular wagon?

Let me break it down for you.
You say you are town.
You say I am town and am voting you for 2 reasons;
1. Because I am not scum
2. Because obviously one hlaf of the scum team will be either an IC or an SE and I know it's not me.

You're an SE.
I'm an IC.
You think/know we're both town.
Who does that leave as the obvious scum? The other SE. Mothrax. Why, by your logic, are you not voting him? He has to be scum, right?

[andrew94]

cough cough im an SE too (although i wasnt in the game when that happened)

[parknourie]

@ Thor - Why would you ask me something like "Why don't you vote Mothrax?"? Did you? Did Anyone? With what reason except for his jump on the popular wagon?

Let me break it down for you.
You say you are town.
You say I am town and am voting you for 2 reasons;
1. Because I am not scum
2. Because obviously one hlaf of the scum team will be either an IC or an SE and I know it's not me.

You're an SE.
I'm an IC.
You think/know we're both town.
Who does that leave as the obvious scum? The other SE. Mothrax. Why, by your logic, are you not voting him? He has to be scum, right?

Ahh.. i get you now. How foolish of me to push on that my-logic but not do it myself.
Yeah. I think that might just be it.

@@Vote: Mothrax

He seems like a decent choice option for me who has an opinion that at least ONE of the more-experienced people are scum.
@ Andrew - You replaced in for a Newbie who apparently didnt even know that the game started.

[parknourie]

To add to the point of Mothrax being scummy.
Some people already pointed this out. Coming from V/LA, he suddenly goes for me agreeing with other people who already voted me.
A popular bandwagon...won't make much difference when I join in.
Must have been his thoughts.
Mothrax is an SE. Obviously he was involved with numerous games and knows his way around this site.
He suddenly gets me on L-1 and wha? Why couldnt he have taken his time to vote on me?
Also, he wanted me to claim as soon as he voted me while other people thought otherwise would be more approachable. I have already said. Will Not Claim. Yet.
His dodginess against Andrew is scummy. Trying to get into conversation without much seriousness and lacking depth with his posts...
Very opportunistic time to return from V/LA and indeed opportunistic vote he straightaway throws off on me.
Thor, I think returning my own logic straight back to me was the best thing you've done in this game.

[ooBAZZoo]

Sorry for my absence so early in the game, but I’m back now. I know this post is a bit long but it contains the things that have jumped out at me as I’ve read through the past 6 pages. Sorry if its long-winded:

- Many of the accusations/arguments that have been banded about strike me as pernickety, particularly the one between Thor and Park in pages 3-4. I believe that good reads come when you analyse a player’s posts over time. Nitpicking at specifics leads to town players going round in circles accusing each other, and allows scum to get away with opportunism and cause mislynches.
- I think many of the accusations against Park have arisen for pernickety reasons, and as a result I don’t think the case is anywhere near strong enough to justify his lynch yet.

---

- I am playing with andrew in another game and the sporadic (which often turn to frustrating) style that he uses there seems to be present in this game too. This makes him hard to read, but I feel the points he makes against Maniamax (regarding his caution agreement with Thor in the Thor/Park discussions) are pretty sound, and as a result I get a slight town read of him (posts #84, 85 and 88).

---

- I take slight issue with Thor’s playstyle at the moment. I see the IC’s role as one that works fairly passively alongside the newbie players, allowing them to make cases, and chipping in to help with the game mechanics when necessary. The way he dominates discussion for pages 2 to 4[ish] reduces the ‘newbie friendly’ aspect, which is what these Road to Rome games are all about. In his ISO #31 he explains that he likes an aggressive playstyle, which I guess I can’t really knock him for (everyone plays the game how they see fit), however there is a chance that this might put some newbies off.
- Also, he uses phrases such as “Occam's Razor” (post #91) without any explanation for the newbie players, which goes directly against the informative and helpful role that an IC

should

assume.
- This being said, these are issues with his playstyle and don’t really help with my read of him (which is currently null).

---

- IO_SAMBO_OI needs an avatar. This makes players far easier to identify and allows you to flick down a page quickly when looking for one of their posts (This, btw, is exactly the kind of thing our IC should have picked up on).

---

ICs are the ones who get commonly linked with a newbie as their scum-partners.

- I’m not 100% that Park hasn’t been corrected for this already, but I’ll do it now anyway:
Each players role, even in a newbie game, is selected totally at random (irrespective of their experience). Nobody is ‘linked’ with anybody else.

---

- Slight possibility of a Maniamax/Huntman scumpartnership. Huntman defends Maniamax twice, and Maniamax has avoided mentioning Huntman at all. Still early days though.

---

- Guderian’s posts are logical and clearly well thought through. Not sure what to make of this, could be his playstyle, or could be because he is scum trying hard not to slip up. Whilst my read on him is null, I’m aware that if he is scum he probably wont make any obvious scum-slips.

---------

Again, sorry if this is a bit wall-of-textish (I’ve been accused of that before). I’m still working on my reads, although I will say nobody stands out as scum yet. I shall follow soon with some questions for people.

[post-ninja edit] Again, Park, you seem to be under the impression that at least one IC or SE is chosen to be scum because of their experience (correct me if I'm wrong about this). This is not the case, all player's roles are chosen completely at random by a random number generator.

[ooBAZZoo]

A few questions:

@ Thor:

First - Bazz's questions, I shall reply to all of them that matter.
1. Yes
4. In a newbie game? Yes.

1) Is/was there a specific reason you didn’t answer my questions 2 & 3?
2) Do you think everything posted on the thread should be directly game related?
3) Could you elaborate on the ‘Yes’ in answer to question 4.

@ Guderin:
1) Which player do you think is playing the most pro-town game? (irrespective of your actual read of them)

@ Huntman:
1) What do you make of Park’s case against Mothrax?

@ IO_SAMBO_OI:
1) Currently, who do you this is most likely to be town aligned?
2) Currently, who do you think is most likely to be scum aligned?
Also, in case you missed it in my dreary long post above, could you get an avatar please.

[KittyMo]

Vote Count Vi

[L-1] parknourie - (Thor665, Guderian, Maniamax, mothrax)

[L-3] Maniamax - (IO_SAMBO_OI, andrew94)
[L-4] andrew94 - (Huntman800)
[L-4] mothrax - (parknourie)

[1]

Not Voting

- (ooBAZZoo)

With

9

alive, it's

5

to lynch!

Deadline is at Wednesday, November 24, 2010 at 4:30:00 PM (Los Angeles time).

FLAVOR

(It's the sixth day of this game)

[Huntman800]

@ Huntman:
1) What do you make of Park’s case against Mothrax?

First, I can't say anything specifically about how Park claims Mothrax is a possibility because of the fact that he is SE (I see why rolepicking would be totally random, but I also see why it could be expectable for one experienced player to be in that mix). However, the post in where he first switches his vote to Mothrax is really odd:

Ahh.. i get you now. How foolish of me to push on that my-logic but not do it myself.
Yeah. I think that might just be it.

That much sounds like sarcasm, but the way it's phrased almost confuses me.

@@Vote: Mothrax

If the above

was

sarcasm, it seems weird for him to change his vote.

He seems like a decent choice option for me who has an opinion that at least ONE of the more-experienced people are scum.

While this is odd too me, I don't have much to say about it because of what I said above.

---

As for Park's next post, he only really elaborates on the fact that Mothrax immediately joined a wagon after returning from V/LA (which I just found out means vacation/limited access!). I'm not sure what to say about that.

All in all, Park's case just makes me more suspicious towards Park. However, the suspicion I gained from those posts isn't backed by any solid proof, so I don't really feel like I can act on it. As for Mothrax, he still comes up as null for me.

Also: @Park: Correct me if I missed it, but you still haven't answered my question. When I explained that your reasoning as to Thor being frustrated is pointless, you simply replied that it goes against what you were thinking, and then continued the mindset you had before. I want some more from you about that.

[parknourie]

Again, Park, you seem to be under the impression that at least one IC or SE is chosen to be scum because of their experience (correct me if I'm wrong about this). This is not the case, all player's roles are chosen completely at random by a random number generator.

Hmm...I think I shudnt have boasted and thought I was the man from the start of the game. Turns out that I was the noobiest-of-them-all.
But I can fix that now.
I will have to think all over again from now. Opening all possibilities, even to Thor now.
First thing I should do is...putting my vote on the place where it is right now. To Mothrax.
Even exempting the fact that Roles are chosen at RANDOM, he seems like the most likely candidate to me.

[Huntman800]

Park, ignoring the fact that my gut screams to not accept letting you restart, I have another question:
Having seen my post, do you have nay

other

reasons for Mothrax to be a scum? He doesn't seem like a candidate at all to me.