Mafia 121 -- Picking Simplicity Game Over

[Nikanor]

She's done nothing this game that helps us. Only blithered random bullshit and essentially claimed she couldn't scumhunt D1, which is bullshit.

Yeah, that just about sums up Haylen's playstyle as both alignments. Good job pointing out the obvious. Now how about hunting for scum?

[AGar]

She's done nothing this game that helps us. Only blithered random bullshit and essentially claimed she couldn't scumhunt D1, which is bullshit.

Yeah, that just about sums up Haylen's playstyle as both alignments. Good job pointing out the obvious. Now how about hunting for scum?

You apparently missed where I said meta is trash. If she's going to be fucking useless as either alignment, then she should be lynched until she starts playing.

[RedCoyote]

Note

: I took some notes as I was reading through the game. These are mostly just my impressions of what went on so far. I don't expect y'all to read them if you're not inclined to. I put them up to give anyone who is interested more insight as to how I coming into the game.

tl;dr = mothrax, Nacho, Sudo, and Xine are all good wagons to start today based on different ideas. Jack and eldarad are solid town reads.

Spoiler: Game Notes

Welcome to the wonderful world of Mafia Scum with Jack...

Brother, you ain't joking.

---

Vote: antihero

[...]

I don't want him lynched but I think I need to see where this goes.

Why did you feel the need to say that bottom sentence? This seems way too safe. It's like you preemptively don't want anyone overanalyzing your vote. You're far too focused on defense for someone who hasn't really posted anything.

---

I'm getting more bad vibes from him than LMP. Not enough to actually VOTE

And why is that? What are you waiting for?

---

Azazel is scummy, his lmp vote is very bad. He calls him for bandwagoning in a 20p game with the second vote? When his own vote is a bandwagon? He has problems with lmp changing his rvs vote 4 pages in? He thinks antihero is scummy but finds lmps vote for him scummy? Too much.

Agree. Agree. Agree. Agree. Agree.

---

You have to be kidding! Wow, that is hilarious. You scum buddies are funny.

Wait. Since when do you think Azazel is scum, and who is he scumbuddies with? Why is it funny? More precisely, why are you dismissing it as hilarious without addressing it?

---

First of all, connecting me and antihero as scumbuddies is hilarious. Tell me, if I was scum with him, would I be that egregious in demonstrating it? In fact, wouldn't it be more beneficial to continue bussing him for town cred? Or are you calling me an idiot?

The WIFOM! The false dilemmas! The paranoia!

Azazel: My Life as a Mafia Goon

In stores this Christmas.

---

^^Not the sk

:thumbs up:

---

Unvote, Vote Lowell

I do not like this vote, especially not after your little, "I'm not going to throw my vote around willy-nilly" comment.

---

Interesting, and what's the thing that stands out to you second most?

Here's a tip though, when you're scum try not to pretend like you read the game when you actually just stopped at the first excuse for a vote you saw.

Although I don't disagree with you and Vas for calling Xine out for this, it doesn't make Azazel any better. Just FYI.

---

Wow. I've played with Empking a handful of times, but I think post 177 is the most I've ever seen him worked up. I don't know if this is good or bad, but it is unusual. If I had to pick I'd say bad though.

Oh, Jack. XD

---

So, your proof of being town, Snake is...

that you're town? You...don't plan to show us? Just kinda insist and hope we go away?

How many times are you going to beat Snake over the head? I think everyone gets it (and you go on and on long after this post, btw).

---

Personally, I'm not a big fan of Jack. Ever since the "claim" post, he's done almost nothing (and I know that's the pot calling the kettle black), except post short responses of very little content, usually piggybacking off someone else, presumably to keep his activity level up. If anything, I'd lay odds that the claim is completely fake, and that he's scum.

Wow. This is it? This is all you have for us after all that's happened? Somehow I doubt you have no opinion on the game other than Jack. The post could've been made on page 3 and had the same effect. What a joke.

---

Completely and utterly unwilling to believe that the *ONLY* read Miller has of a 12-page D1 happens to be that the bandwagoned guy is scum.

Completely and utterly willing to agree with you.

---

Good catch by Jack (who else?) in post 301.

---

EBWOP: If Snake flips town, though, I will be all over some of these people like stink on shit.

Will you make good on this?

---

So, Antihero, basically what you're saying is that I only commented on Mothrax's post because it was about me? You see, if I see something scummy, I will mention it. I don't care if it's about me, someone else in the game or casper the friendly ghost. Scummy is scummy.

It seems to have stirred you up a bit, hon. I was about to write it off due to Snake's flip, but then you kept on Antihero, UK, and AGar, and now you look kind of panicky.

---

No, why? People often don't mention wagons. Where's Agar's solid stance on the Empking wagon? He's assuming that snake is scum his scum buddies are avoiding the wagon why? Why not get on it?

Apples to oranges. The CJ wagon was wholly dependent on the Snake wagon. You couldn't separate them. The CJ wagon wouldn't have existed without the Snake wagon. That's the difference.

---

Here's a good post 373 from LMP. Juxtaposing all these posts together doesn't Haylen look so good. A quick question though, have these two played together before?

---

Although it's not usually used for this many players, here's a scumscale for everyone:

[

Town

]--Jack---eldarad---Glork-LMP--Vas-Lowell-Haylen-Nikanor-[

∙

]-AGar-Empking--UK--Antihero--Sudo-Xine--Nacho-mothrax---[

Scum

]

I read the game during the night and have a few opinions over what to do next. A few positions I should get out of the way in regards to both Jack's claim and yesterday's lynch. Jack is probably one of the few people with the balls to make a claim the way he did. I wouldn't have done that. If Jack would've asked me whether or not he should do it, I probably would've told him not to do it. That said, I think it was a worthwhile start to the game, and my read only verified this. Jack has seemingly done more than anyone else here to keep the game as a whole going and keep everyone on their toes. In regards to lynching Snake, I thought it was, for the most part, a pro-town thing to do.

Luckily I'm replacing into a fairly blank slate. I should hope everyone has essentially a neutral read on this slot given the lack of substance. Let me get started with a quick jump into who I think is town. As I've already mentioned, Jack is seemingly on top of this game like no one else. I've been impressed with eldarad's posting. I think that should tip a point or two in his favor. Nacho's not given him the same credit that I am, but a majority of his reads do coincide with mine. Yos was actually going to be recognized as well, but instead I'd say either Glork or LMP is probably heading up the third spot.

That's the boring stuff though. Who are the scum? Based mostly on posting, I've come to the conclusion that I could go in three directions:

mothrax - The best and most promising direction is towards mothrax. With a whopping ten posts in this game, a large percentage of them are spent defending himself from sticking his neck out for seemingly no reason. Although he's had very little impact on the game as a whole, he feels the need to jump on Haylen in post 300 completely out of the blue. Prior to this, he seemed content in playing under the radar. CJ's flip may have affected this read somewhat, but it doesn't change the fact that as soon as Jack raised an eyebrow, mothrax definitely panicked a bit. He's been very quiet on his suspicions and reads, opting instead of follow others and popular wagons. I do not get a good vibe from him at all. If there's one player I had to place money on as scum, it would be mothrax.

Nacho - A second player who deserves just as much attention is, unfortunately, Nacho. I say unfortunately because I like Nacho and feel bad that he had to replace into Azazel's slot. From the word go, Azazel puts his foot in his mouth with post 84. He cuts his own vote off at the knees for no reason by saying that he's voting purely for reactions (which generally means, "I don't take ownership of my votes, please don't look at me too hard"). In post 117 he starts throwing out the WIFOM, paranoia, and and false dilemmas at LMP with little justification. If I could sum up Azazel's play with one word, it would be overreaction.

Sudo & Xine - A third route we could go would be more of a pure lurker route. All these players have been inactive, but Xine and Sudo have really taken the cake this game. Sudo has talked about one person this entire game: Jack. He has a total of four posts, all of them, except his confirmation post, are complaining about Jack in some way. He actually asks Jack to elaborate on a post, but he never follows up on it. Strange given that Jack is seemingly the only player Sudo has noticed this game. The problem with Xine is the same although it looks a little different in the onset. She clearly has more posts (still a low ten total), but there's just very little analysis in them. I completely agree with her Azazel vote, but as Jack and Vas point out, it's completely out of place and awkward. Her last four posts were basically just quoting someone else. Neither of these players have shown enough interest in hunting scum for my taste.

Vote: mothrax

[VasudeVa]

@RC:

What am I doing so high up the Town list? I haven't done much yet.
I do agree with your points on Nacho, Sudo and Xine.

PEOPLE. DO NOT BE FOOLED BY THE WALL. RC IS ALWAYS SCUM, HE DID THOSE REPLACE IN WALLS THERE TOO. I HAVE YET TO PLAY WITH HIM AS TOWN. THEREFORE, HE IS ON A HOT STREAK OF ROLLING SCUM VS. ME AND IM WILLING TO BET HE'S STILL SCUM HERE.

Vote: RC

Unvote

*giggles*

Now to get back on the game, I still dislike Hayl's 'IC-ing' of Snake despite her answer. Are her answers accurate, for the people who may be familiar with Haylen? (*cough*Nikanor*cough*).

Imma put my vote there, regardless.

[mothrax]

@haylen: I'm looking forward to the results of this "information gathering" you did D1.

@rc: I came back from an unexpected vla and started playing the game, calling out scum. Would you rather I just lurked all game?

[Lowell]

UK, if I were scum everytime I said something contradictory or scummy, I'd be scum every game. Write that down.

I confess I'm behind in my read, and yes I will catch up, but how funny was the following sequence:

(1) UK votes me for such and such (lurking, probably, always is)
(2) folks jump in to call UK scummy for being lazy/wrong
(3) UK counters by saying 'OMG guys I

swear

Lowell is the SK. Don't you guys want to lynch the SK!!?!?!'"
...
...
...
(93) Uh, town wins?

vote UK

for taking the low-hanging fruit and then defending it all irrational-like.

That said, keep your eye on nacho. No one ever thinks I'm town except scum. Write THAT down, too.

[Empking]

Vote: UK

[Haylen]

Now to get back on the game, I still dislike Hayl's 'IC-ing' of Snake despite her answer. Are her answers accurate, for the people who may be familiar with Haylen? (*cough*Nikanor*cough*).

I know nearly every player in this game in some way or form. Nachomamma probably knows my play a bit better than Nik, although both can give you accurate accounts of me. I'd like to point out that I tend to always defend the newbie in the beginning if they are under attack - after a while I will re-evaluate. Hayl <3's newbies :3

I don't like Empking's jump on the UK wagon, especially without reason and the fact that all evidence points to him maybe being one of todays potential bandwagons.

[Xine]

Lowell, I got suckered in by that exact conundrum you are describing the last time I played with you, I'm going to place you at neutral. I think you are making a really valid point about UK. your point on nacho is a bit weak, but, I'll still take your advice and keep my eye on him.

UK, would you please elaborate why Lowell looks like the SK?
ninja edit,
I see Empking has taken this as a prime opportunity to cast an opportunistic vote. I may as well mention that he would be my prime suspect at this moment, but I need to look over some stuff before I place any votes.
no promises on when, sorry all, real life comes first for me.

Haylen: could you plesae clarify this statement?

I don't like Empking's jump on the UK wagon, especially without reason and the fact that all evidence points to him maybe being one of todays potential bandwagons.

[Empking]

"one of todays potential bandwagons" ugh.

[UncertainKitten]

What the hell is wrong with all of you? I said that Lowell was NOT likely to be the SK, and likely to be MAFIA. Do none of you have an OUNCE of ability to read, for christ's sake?

WHAT. THE FUCK. IS UNCLEAR. ABOUT. THIS. POST!?

*ahem*

Now that we've cleared that up, can we lynch Xine? Her last post isn't that great.

[UncertainKitten]

@RC: Oh yeah. My Lowell vote was pretty fucking justified on D1 and continues to be such. It wasn't a "willy-nilly" vote, he was just claiming scum with that post. I'll thank you to not accuse me of otherwise.

[Haylen]

Empking was a bandwagon yesterday, he was majorly in the running for getting lynched. He was not lynched, thus suggesting that he is most likely going to be a bandwagon today. But rather than have people voting on him, he has decided to go with the current major bandwagon without any reasoning.

[UncertainKitten]

My Empking read as him at least trying to be town in his ISO. But, yes, he was one of the wagons that the Snake wagon sprang up and pretty much consumed, which does not bear forgetting.

[LimMePls]

(Notice "I don't want him lynched, but I think I need to see where this goes". SCUMMY!)

How is this scummy? He's saying that he wants to see why he didn't comment on the Jack claim. That's logical enough; hell, I would even call it pro-town that he was the first one to notice Antihero was the only person to avoid commenting on Jack's {Cop, Doctor} claim.

It's scummy because its distancing himself from his own vote. What was the purpose of that vote, to instigate a reaction/participation from Antihero? If so, why immediately undercut it with the "I don't want him lynched..." crap.

Notice Antihero bending over backwards to appease the person voting him

This isn't even close to a partner tell. Why would Antihero be concerned about appeasing his scumbuddy? Honestly, I don't see how this is "bending over backwards", either. He explained his vote, like he was asked to do. He didn't buddy up at all, he didn't do anything extra, he just explained himself.

That's actually a good point. It's certainly appeasement, but I don't think that the appeasement was the partner tell. The partner tell was the way Azazel responded to my vote on Antihero that made me think the whole sequence looked like scum distancing. I call it bending over backwards because he didn't comment on the stuff, someone comes in and vote him for not commenting on the stuff, and then he makes a large post commenting on all the stuff he hadn't commented on. He was obviously concerned with what people thought about him.

followed by completely unoriginal statements/opinions that were not scum hunting at all ie. "I think what UK thinks"

You know, there's only so many stances you can take on a P1 claim. "Yes, I believe the claim". "No, I don't believe the claim.". "I don't know what to think about the claim". So of COURSE his opinion is going to be unoriginal. Also, what statements are you talking about? I only see one.

The whole post had multiple statements in it, and they were all repetitions of other things people had said. For instance, some of his "questioning" towards me was all things AGar and Empking had already said, the position on Jack was "sheep UK", and his vote was a bandwagon vote. The whole post was large and completely lacking in a) original thought b) scumhunting.

Once I start pushing him over this issue, Azazel gives us 2 more posts, and then does his vanishing act with unanswered questions from me. Very convenient.

Are you using flaking as a scumtell? REALLY?
There's no way in hell your questions were so pressuring and accurate and good that you made him quit. Sorry, you're not that good.

[/quote]

I'm definitely using flaking when under direct questioning for scummy actions as a scum tell, yes. Of course you're going to say he isn't scum that flaked under pressure, since YOU ARE HIS REPLACEMENT.

[LimMePls]

LMP's case = hilarious epicfail.

Stating it doesn't make it true Antihero. One of you is scum, and I think both is a strong possibility.

nacho, I eagerly await the UK case.

I bet you do. If someone else doesn't provide the content for you, how can you pretend to have an original thought? Keep buddying with Azazel/nacho though, I like it. Alot.

[Haylen]

Well you have basically just asked him to defend the guy he's just replaced. Only Nacho and Azezezezel know what that player slots role is and Nacho cannot properly explain what Azel's thought processes are. In fact, I would find it scummy if he didn't have trouble defending Azel.

[Xine]

What the hell is wrong with all of you? I said that Lowell was NOT likely to be the SK, and likely to be MAFIA. Do none of you have an OUNCE of ability to read, for christ's sake?

WHAT. THE FUCK. IS UNCLEAR. ABOUT. THIS. POST!?

*ahem*

Now that we've cleared that up, can we lynch Xine? Her last post isn't that great.

oh, sorry, I stand corrected, thank you for explaining. and let's not lynch me, I think we should lynch scum instead

[LimMePls]

Wait. Since when do you think Azazel is scum, and who is he scumbuddies with? Why is it funny? More precisely, why are you dismissing it as hilarious without addressing it?

Since that post where he did the 180 on Antihero after Antihero's blatantly scummy post. I was addressing it, it lead to the massive interactions with Azazel.

Here's a good post 373 from LMP. Juxtaposing all these posts together doesn't Haylen look so good. A quick question though, have these two played together before?

We were in one game together that I know of, [self-redacted-because-it-is-ongoing] but she was daykilled before she ever made a substantive post (I think just 1 RVS vote). I don't believe we've played together in any other games. Why does it matter?

[UncertainKitten]

Well if you don't want to be lynched Xine, stop being scum! Gosh, ya'd think it was rocket science ^-^.

In other news I have stuff to do today so try not to string me up over the next 8 hours, k?

[Jack]

vote:mothrax

[Jack]

Possible other scum: azazel/nacho, xine, also agar:

Obvious scum is obvious.

Hey guys, guess who

1) Wasn't on the Snake wagon
2) Never took a position towards the Snake wagon
3) Easily slid onto the CJ wagon

If you answered Haylen to any or all of the above questions, you're CORRECT!!!!!

Scum #2 found.

She's done nothing this game that helps us. Only blithered random bullshit and essentially claimed she couldn't scumhunt D1, which is bullshit.

Yeah, that just about sums up Haylen's playstyle as both alignments. Good job pointing out the obvious. Now how about hunting for scum?

You apparently missed where I said meta is trash. If she's going to be fucking useless as either alignment, then she should be lynched until she starts playing.

If you read over his comments about Haylen, he generally tries to act as if he finds her scummy but always seems to relapse into criticizing her play. Which makes him scum going after a townie he thinks is playing poorly enough to get mislynched.

Being abrasive in response to criticism is a scum tactic and scum tell as well.

[Jack]

Also I remember finding antihero scummy but don't remember why exactly.

don't think it would hurt for nikanor to explain his sk-theory, since the only thing I can guess is that it's based on cj being nightkilled, which I don't quite see how we can get much from.

[Jack]

Well, I suppose the idea is the SK would only have killed cj if he really thought cj was scum and didn't have any other major suspects. I would probably have killed CJ as SK though because I don't like super lurkers.

[Empking]

Unvote

Vote; Haylen

I've got myu bearings straight with this game again so I consider Haylen's recent posts as opportunistic silliness rather than actual scumhunting.