Mafia 121 -- Picking Simplicity Game Over

[Haylen]

Oh look an attack. Now, see, if I vote him he will call it OMGUS and pretend he's got me in some sort of trap. I know! I'll do it anyway!

Vote Empking

-_-

[Empking]

Oh look an attack. Now, see, if I vote him he will call it OMGUS and pretend he's got me in some sort of trap. I know! I'll do it anyway!

Vote Empking

-_-

Making veilled attacks is scummy (town would make open attacks).

[Nikanor]

You apparently missed where I said meta is trash. If she's going to be fucking useless as either alignment, then she should be lynched until she starts playing.

Or, to rephrase, "I've already said that I don't consider meta valid so don't try to use that to figure out that my vote is crap."
I'm glad you're acknowledging that my meta is valid with your second sentence, though. If you really think that meta is worth nothing, it means you know that Haylen is town.

Unvote. Vote: AGar.

Thx 4 claiming scum.

[VasudeVa]

Oohh, good catch. Baah baahhh.

Vote: AGar

[Jack]

[UncertainKitten]

Jack has a good point about AGar.

@Haylen: Well, why *are* you voting him?

In fact, Jack has a *very* good point.

Unvote, Vote AGar

L-something or other.

[Nobody Special]

Votecount 2.01

AGar - 3 - Nikanor, VasudeVa, UncertainKitten
Haylen - 2 - AGar, Empking
mothrax - 2 - RedCoyote, Jack
UncertainKitten - 2 - Nachomamma8, Lowell
Antihero - 1 - LynchMePls
Empking - 1 - Haylen

Not Voting: Antihero, eldarad, Glork, mothrax, Sudo_Nym, Xine

With 17 alive, it takes 9 to lynch.

Deadline: November 23

Random notes:

--

Overture

from Broadway's

Gypsy

is stupenderiferous. Go. Listen.

[Haylen]

I agree with Nik actually.

Unvote, Vote AGar

I was voting Empking to make a point.

[UncertainKitten]

How is making your point pro-town, Haylen?

[Haylen]

It shows that even if he's going to attack what I do and call it scummy, I'm going to to it anyway as I am not afraid that any of my posts or actions appear scummy to someone as a true townie can dig themselves out of a mess if they try.

[UncertainKitten]

So basically you're focused on getting a medal for being *way too super protown*.

Stop it and play the game, please. If you're town it'll show without silly tricks.

[Haylen]

So basically you're focused on getting a medal for being *way too super protown*.

Stop it and play the game, please. If you're town it'll show without silly tricks.

I'm playing the game as I would naturally. Don't try and turn me into a player than I'm not. My town play is full of tricks and gambits you know that yourself after I explained every ounce of my town play in the deadthread.

What was jack's very good point considering his previous post was just ':D'

[UncertainKitten]

I was considering as I posted. It's his points on AGar. Also, makes any argument better.

Anyway, the trouble is "as you would naturally" reads a lot like "unnatural". Unnatural behavior is usually done with scum intent.

[LimMePls]

Haylen is starting to creep me out. Losing that "lazy-town" read and working on scum.

Not sure I buy AGar wagon. All I see is "he said he doesn't like meta, but he's attacking Haylen". Someone needs to clarify this for me please.

[Jack]

his previous post was just ':D'

This is a

LIE

[UncertainKitten]

It's inconsistency that Nikanor pointed out, as well as the fact that while he doesn't like meta (a stance I can agree with), he's using that as an excuse for contrivance. Jack put it best about the whole accusing her of scum, no wait, criticizing her play thing.

[UncertainKitten]

EBWOP: <3 Jack. So much.

[eldarad]

My case on Antihero (and Azazel by association) is best understood by this sequence of posts:
<snip>

LMP's case looks to be more on Azazel than antihero, yet he seems to be working hard to shoehorn the points into a case on antihero with any scumminess attaching to Azazel "by association."

Azazel's disclaiming of his vote, and especially when he specifically referred to the disclaimer when his vote came under scrutiny, was very scummy. But it is the only scummy thing Azazel did. That's not a case.

~~~
I don't like AGar's interaction with Haylen from Yesterday, and I definitely don't like AGar's interactions with/regarding Haylen Today. Nik's #477 hits the nail on the head I think.

VOTE: AGar

#489 made me lol.

[LimMePls]

^^No it isn't. Look at Antihero's post after Azazel's "I need to see where this goes" buisness. That post is from scum. Period.

[RedCoyote]

RC IS ALWAYS SCUM, HE DID THOSE REPLACE IN WALLS THERE TOO.

<3

If you're asking seriously about my read on you though, I was happy to see you push Xine when she tried to sneak in that vote on Azazel as though she had been playing the game actively.

---

@rc: I came back from an unexpected vla and started playing the game, calling out scum. Would you rather I just lurked all game?

Do you think Haylen is still scum?

And why are you feeling sorry for yourself with these rhetorical questions?

---

@RC: Oh yeah. My Lowell vote was pretty fucking justified on D1 and continues to be such. It wasn't a "willy-nilly" vote, he was just claiming scum with that post. I'll thank you to not accuse me of otherwise.

I don't see it. Perhaps you have some history with him, so I'm assuming this is mostly a meta read. I don't see anything particularly wrong with Lowell.

---

I don't believe we've played together in any other games. Why does it matter?

Because Haylen has a certain personality to her. I was just curious how that would change your read, if at all.

---

I was voting Empking to make a point.

Oh, Haylen. Why would you say this? Ugh. Can we just lynch you and AGar? Would that be okay?

---

I'm with LMP on AGar here. I like Jack's point, but I don't think I see what Nikanor/Vas/Haylen are seeing.

[AGar]

You apparently missed where I said meta is trash. If she's going to be fucking useless as either alignment, then she should be lynched until she starts playing.

Or, to rephrase, "I've already said that I don't consider meta valid so don't try to use that to figure out that my vote is crap."
I'm glad you're acknowledging that my meta is valid with your second sentence, though. If you really think that meta is worth nothing, it means you know that Haylen is town.

Unvote. Vote: AGar.

Thx 4 claiming scum.

Let's be real - I'm not a shitty scum player here.

I've been lynched... twice? as scum? Once because in a newbie game my RB partner bit the bullet and the cop investigated me due to my terrible pre-replacement (N857). The other was because I played a bad game after replacing a hardcore lurker who played the newbie card too hard (N853). Both replacement slots. I play pristine fucking scum games. My two losses are the one newbie game I cited, and a Friends & Enemies & Enemies game where I died via crosskill because the other team got mason vibes from me.

You want to run with your so-called slip, go for it. You're wrong, and that's gotta be the weakest thing I've seen ever. If you regard your meta so highly, go meta me. Every game is linked cleanly in my wiki page. Every one. Tell me what you find, other than I don't fuck up as scum. That's not meta, that's fact.

As for the slip itself, now that I'm off my ego trip, I'm not acknowledging meta. My vote is on Haylen because her game here has been scummy. You said she plays like this regardless of alignment, I simply reprimanded you for allowing it. If a player is playing bad, then they shouldn't be rewarded with bogus meta defenses saying it's null. This is half of the problem we have this massive influx of VIs on this site currently. People refuse to just lynch a player like Haylen or DMSIS saying it's a null meta tell. Null meta in itself is retarded - you're admitting that you can't read the player. So how is your reasoning in any way shape or form decent? Pray tell.

I think meta is worth nothing, therefore I am going to move on with my belief that Haylen is scum until she does otherwise. I also made a comment that you shouldn't reward bad play, you should force improvement. If you want to interpret it differently, go ahead. Not my problem.

UK: I'm using my distaste for meta as an excuse for a plan? Do explain this, I'm actually interested to hear this one. Also, what happened to Lowell-obvscum?

[AGar]

Other inconsistencies here:

Jack supposedly has good points about me, but has yet to actually lay down a vote.
Eldarad has taken an easy-on, easy-off approach to my wagon, so that if it fizzles out, he has a chance to escape. $10 on him hopping on the next wagon that gains steam once this fizzles.
RC doesn't see the case, but wants me lynched, without any given reason.

Everyone seems to believe that being abrasive is a scumtell, but they'll cling to their precious meta to defend Haylen. It's hilariously conveniently lazy and short-sighted of them.

[UncertainKitten]

Then you are blind, RC. I wasn't using meta whatsoever. The post I was responding to was a terrible, TERRIBLE post.

@AGar: Lowell is obv scum. No one else is voting him. I believe in getting a lynch. Jack presented what seemed to be quite logical reasoning to vote you. So, I saw no reason not to.

And no, being abrasive isn't a scumtell. What's scummy about what you've been doing is how your argument starts off as how she's scummy and how it ends as how she's a terrible player. It's less that you've claimed a dislike of meta for a *plan* so much as it's a *convenient* dislike of meta.

Also, the "I don't slip" argument is cute. Clearly because we can't catch you as scum we should never vote you. You do realize that's what you are saying, right?

[UncertainKitten]

Oh, right, I'm going to be going V/LA this evening until Sunday evening.

Noted. ~~NS

[mothrax]

Uk, AGar is not claiming a convenient dislike of meta. He does this every game.

@rc. Yes I do still find haylen scummy. Will lay out a case when I get to my computer (later today)