Mini 1077 Lost: Season Two (Over)

[MagnaofIllusion]

So 2/9 of my personal experiences have had a vig, so my no-vig pool is actually higher.

I would say that the CPR Doc qualifies as a Vig but 3/9 is much lower than expected based on my memory. Your results made me go back and check my own personal records also.

With – 937 (Full), 938 (Odd Night and JOAT), 948 (3 Weak Vigs), 951 (1 Shot), 955 (1 or 2 Shot I think), 969 (CPR Doc), 974 (Vig that died immediately on coming into game), 989 (Full), 1000 (Limited Shot), 1003 (Full), 1039 (2 Weak Vigs), 1040 (Vig mechanic),

Without – 962 (Serial Killer), invitational 8 (No Non-Mafia killer), 1032 (No Non-Mafia killer), 1052 (No Non-Mafia killer)

I have excluded Max’s Perpetual MYLO Mafia as it was a specifically designed Vanilla set-up.

So I have 12 Vigs, and 4 non-Vig games, making it 75% of the time from my experience.

Given the disparity of our experiences I think a ‘Hoopla’ might be insightful. Not useful for scum-hunting, but interesting.

Honestly, I don't believe the claim, but I don't think he's scum, per se. I think he's an idiot.

Vigging him is a stupid idea then. In a Mini game we don’t have the luxury of vigging idiots that we do in a Large game. We need to be vigging scum.

Your lynch pool is disagreeable, although I'll do them the kind graces of a re-read I suppose.

Then give me something more compelling than your sandbox fight with Call based on your being purposefully abrasive.

Vote toon fighter scummiest active lurker in the game. Let's kill him w/ fire.

Why is he scummier than Dram who is also way lurking?

Why should we be going after active lurkers as opposed to directly scummy players like Enigma, Jason or Vezok?

Why is everyone going apeshit with role related information? It's unnecessary at such an early stage of D1.

Certain role-based information absolutely needs to be made early Day 1. Miller claims and Dekes Census information being two examples. I’m not thrilled with Gandalf’s claim but I’ve already shown how we need to deal with it.

It’s not like this information prevents you from scum-hunting.

Town WIFOMy posts! Scum tactic right here!
PS: Ohh sorry I forgot we were playing a GAME. I thought we were playing real life for a while there. Chill out mate.

Yeah, I understand you don’t know my propensity to get NKed Night 1.

Also, ITT we learn that Enigma lacks the ability to recognize subtle sarcasm on the Interwebz.

Gandalf's post about Dekes being offlimits based on flips is just retarded logic. If we get that many flips town have already won the game anyways. People shouldn't naive enough to blindly trust said information. It's unhealthy.

Way to attempt to present things disproportionately to their actual nature. Gandalf’s presentation of the statement aside there is no reason to go charging after Dekes at this juncture. If he plays scummy enough in the future to warrant consideration we will. No-one is saying BLINDLY trust said information.

You still haven’t given a compelling scum motivation for Dekes Census claim that would warrant your statement here.

By your logic then Gandalf should do a full claim right now? Callandor should spit out whatever it is he wants to say?
How about we just do a mass claim right now while we are at it? And then we can tell which PR's are telling the truth when scum kill them and we see a flip!
Good fucking idea sir!

Way to once again exaggerate what was said. Scumtastic. No-one has suggested full claims from Gandalf or a mass-claim. You are using statements not made as evidence and that’s at best a bad argument.

then if you are town then WHY the hell is CK suggesting a town member gets blown up FFS

Because perhaps Chess doesn’t buy that Gandalf’s role isn’t Third Party?

[jasonT1981]

not going to be about the rest of the day.. I have a race tonight as well as a soccer game.

[jasonT1981]

Alright, I concede I am probably the popular wagon.

I am Sayid Jarrah and have a Heart of Gold, during the night, I may PM me the name of a player to the mod. and he will PM that person and confirm your rolename and alignment to them.

[jasonT1981]

Alright, I concede I am probably the popular wagon.

I am Sayid Jarrah and have a Heart of Gold, during the night, I may PM me the name of a player to the mod. and he will PM that person and confirm your rolename and alignment to them.

PM the mod, not PM me the mod lol

[chesskid3]

confirms your name and alignment to that player?
so you're a friendly neighbor?

[MagnaofIllusion]

Dear God people stop the pre-emptive claiming!

What part about not claiming until absolutely necessary don't you get? You are only making it easier for the scum to PR hunt for things like Cops and Doctors.

Grumble ....

[chesskid3]

Unvote

Vote: MoI

You're at L-6. Claimtime, motherfucker.

[jasonT1981]

confirms your name and alignment to that player?
so you're a friendly neighbor?

No, Im not a neighbor.. I can choose whoever i want to confirm my role to

[chesskid3]

friendly neighbor does that too >_<

[vezokpiraka]

Reck Mod

: Is this game bastard in any way shape or form? I mean do you outright lie to the players?

[jasonT1981]

fair enough... only time ive really been neighbors is in a scum/town neighbor scanario

[gandalf5166]

Wow lol............ Why the fuck did jason claim? That was NOT the kind of thing you're supposed to claim until L1.

[Toon Fighter]

unvote

I'm still skeptical about gandalf's claim, but I'll leave him alone for now.

I'm the scummiest lurker so far? What about dramonic? What has he done so far? A couple of votes, references to a previous game, 10 posts with very little content, and only one post for the last 4 days. I'm not saying I'm much better, but if you are going to stone a lurker, I don't think I'm the best choice.

vote: Dramonic

I want more posts from you.

I have tried to participate. I have made a (small) case on gandalf. I have pointed out Dramonic. I have posted and will continue to do so. @ Dekes: I said that hatch think just for flavour, don't make such a fuss over it.

@ CK: even if there is a vig, you don't need to make all that fuss over it. Also, to the others, why do you care so much about CK's vig requests? If there is a vig, he may follow his suggestion (or not). If there isn't one, it's useless, or scum may do that kill themselves. If CK IS a vig, it would be wifomy, and let scum doubt him, and keep him alive.

@jason: Why the claim now? What do you gain from it?

[jasonT1981]

Wow lol............ Why the fuck did jason claim? That was NOT the kind of thing you're supposed to claim until L1.

Because I was sick to fuck of CK constant hammering on I was scum with nothing to back it up.... scary thing is people were listening to him

[xRECKONERx]

Vren has requested replacement.

[chesskid3]

Jason, I would like a pm from you tonight

[jasonT1981]

tough.. the PM will be sent by a group decission not yours

[jasonT1981]

determined who to send to via group decission

[gandalf5166]

Great, and now we know you're part of a masonry/neighborhood........ If you're trying to breadcrumb, just stop. In fact, make as little reference to your ability as possible. Maybe scum will just forget.........

[jasonT1981]

I am NOT part of a Neighborhood.. I am NOT a Mason. My power is a one shot only.

[gandalf5166]

tough.. the PM will be sent by a group decission not yours

Then what does this mean? Unless it has to do with parts of your role you haven't already revealed, in which case don't answer.

[MagnaofIllusion]

I'm the scummiest lurker so far? What about dramonic? What has he done so far? A couple of votes, references to a previous game, 10 posts with very little content, and only one post for the last 4 days. I'm not saying I'm much better, but if you are going to stone a lurker, I don't think I'm the best choice. vote: Dramonic I want more posts from you.

I have tried to participate. I have made a (small) case on gandalf. I have pointed out Dramonic. I have posted and will continue to do so. @ Dekes: I said that hatch think just for flavour, don't make such a fuss over it.

The inherent hypocricy / self-preservation in this post pings my scumdar.

Why aren’t you the best choice for stoneing a lurker? You admit your contributions are at best negligibly better than Drams. Why shouldn’t we be looking at actively scummy players instead of lurkers?

Pointing out Dramonic hardly counts as contributions when AGar and I both recently said he needs to contribute more.

Because I was sick to fuck of CK constant hammering on I was scum with nothing to back it up.... scary thing is people were listening to him

See this I don’t buy. I don’t think anyone has said they bought CK’s rhetoric. You reaction to it, however, is what put you on my radar.

Great, and now we know you're part of a masonry/neighborhood........ If you're trying to breadcrumb, just stop. In fact, make as little reference to your ability as possible. Maybe scum will just forget.........

Are you not reading for content? Jason didn’t claim to be a mason, neighbour, or any sort of Mason/Neighborizor. He’s claimed what is a modified Innocent Child. He gets to pick one player at night who the Mod will PM saying that Jason is confirmed Town.

[gandalf5166]

I interpreted him saying that his ability use being a group decision as meaning that he was in a group like a masonry/neighborhood.

I understand the difference between a Neighbor and a Friendly Neighbor.

[AGar]

Your lynch pool is disagreeable, although I'll do them the kind graces of a re-read I suppose.

Then give me something more compelling than your sandbox fight with Call based on your being purposefully abrasive.

How about 15 pages in, with actual accusations being made in several directions, picking on a lurker to vote rather than committing to a case which could be perceived as scummy, thus showing a motivation about concern on his image over anything else?

Also, in a 9:2:1 setup, we do have the luxury of vigging stupid players. If this was 9:3 or 9:3:1, I'd agree. But I disagree at the moment.

Assuming a mislynch every day and no blocks, and that the 3rd party is a non-killing faction (possible due to Reck's past setup with Lost), vigging a player like Gandalf, who is an idiot and further proving this with every post, we would be in a 3:2:1 on D3, similar to a lylo on D3, only with the 3rd party involved. Obviously if the 3rd party is a killing faction, we have a whole different ballgame on our hands.

I am vehemently against policy lynches, especially on D1. They play into the hands of scum, so unless you're suggesting we have a good cop/investigative PR, which I'm not putting my money on, there's nothing to be gained for it. Policy vigging, on the contrary, can remove dead weight from a town without costing possible analysis. Obviously if we have scum caught and an obvious choice for a scum-vig tonight, take it. But I don't see one, unless more people see what I see in Callandor but don't want to lynch him. So vigging Gandalf is the next best option, in my opinion. If he survives the night and we see negative effects, we lynch him D2. Why is that a hard concept to understand. I think it's a scum-bluff, personally. I've seen it before, and always question it. Claiming something to deter power roles from acting on you. If mafia can't directly recruit him, his optimal play in this position would be to play as town as possible and try and draw the night-kill. I

know

he knows this because this is what was told to me back in Mini 1006 when I was a Town PGO and claimed at the start of D2. So unless he's claiming to have not read the majority of the start of a day in that game, he's making a gambit here in my opinion.

Callandor - All of your points are simply twisting the semantics of what I'm saying now. You're right, I voted you for contradictions, which I do find scummy. But there's this wonderful thing called ulterior motive - I found the contradiction scummy. I found Enigma still scummier at the time, however, so I applied some slight pressure. You cooked like rotten clams. Thus, the vote. The fact that you're saying I'm just misguided town is not earning you town points. By the way, you're exactly right - your focus should be on scumhunting, not analyzing a case that you think is poor. The fact that you're refusing to come off of your heels besides a lurker vote is not good pro-town play.

---

The off-topic wandering 3 AM brain stuff.

@MoI: For the record, I did a bit of Hoopla-ing last night. I got a bit bored after ~42 results, but it was 26-16 in favor of no vig the past 42 recorded mini normals completed or abandoned WITH setup revealed. I think it won't matter, as mini themes vary so much based on the flavor included and how roles fit into them. For example, in 1032 which we just finished, most roles seemed to be very modified versions of non-practical roles. Neighbors were about as usual as it got there.

[AGar]

Jason Iso:

First 30 or so posts are him simply countering CK3's accusations, and literally nothing more...
Perks up for the next 20-ish posts.
Then involved but not really pushing at anything for about 15.
Then we have vig speculation for 7 posts in a row.
Then more setup speculation mixed with some questioning for a few posts.
Then the claim and follow ups.

The claim is a new one... Never really seen something like that before. I'd say we choose a group of 2-3 people for Jason to choose who to PM. That way if Jason is telling the truth, he can choose one, and scum only have a reduced chance of stopping the information flow to us without actually killing him. If it's the truth in his claiming, then we increase the odds of getting the info. I suggest we pick 3 people that we all deem highly unlikely to be Jason's buddy, to prevent a forgery.

I see no reason to lynch him today, at least. This claim can actually do us a lot of good if it's truthful, and we can kill him otherwise.

ALSO, anyone notice Gandalf's "Why the fuck did he claim?" post?