Mafia 119: MURDER AT HOTEL DEATH(GAME OVER)

[curiouskarmadog]

interesting....so..if you are "worried" of a vollkan/CKD scum team, why arent you pressing it further? Why does that worry stop you from voting a2?...does that mean you wont vote him at all today because of said worry? the above statement rubs me completely wrong. maybe it is the phrase "you are not helping yourself"....not sure what exactly about it rubs me wrong. why do you care if he is "helping himself"? this feels coachy to me...or...or something....need to think on it.

[curiouskarmadog]

my post is referencing this.

You're not helping yourself a2. That is a massive ball of indecision and bad logic (I don't think the neighbors have scum, and I believe LMP/Vollkan claim, I guess I'll vote LMP), followed by placing a vote only to appease the people pressuring you. I'd vote you if I wasn't worried about a Vollkan/CKD team.

[LimMePls]

Vote: CKD

This needs to happen.

[lewarcher82]

So i see ckd who was interrogating a2, questioning a2's vote. A2 unvotes and lmp comments that a2 is scummy. Then ckd is bothered by lmp's post, and lmp votes him. A lot of stuff happened. I am a little bothered by lmp 1224 but I wonder if ckd and a2 couldn't scumbuddies... Actually, ckd' innocence is implied by all the posts of a2...

[LimMePls]

CKD has bothered me ever since he claimed to prevent Singer from stealing his kill and using it as scum (which then turns out to be EXACTLY what happened but in reverse), and then he uses the kill on DemonHybrid (who was pretty obv town).

GAH This game.

[LimMePls]

Unvote

This game makes my head hurt. Pretty sure this is exactly what Seraphim wanted with the whole "neighborhood" mechanic, breeding paranoia.

[LimMePls]

Anyone who thinks I'm scum after how hard I pushed PD to the front of the lynch line is stupid.

[evilpacman18]

Anyone who thinks I'm scum after how hard I pushed PD to the front of the lynch line is stupid.

I bussed a scumbuddy this hard in 118.

[curiouskarmadog]

lol, you can vote and unvote me all you want to...but like A2..you are just ignoring the questions.

interesting....so..if you are "worried" of a vollkan/CKD scum team, why arent you pressing it further? Why does that worry stop you from voting a2?...does that mean you wont vote him at all today because of said worry? the above statement rubs me completely wrong. maybe it is the phrase "you are not helping yourself"....not sure what exactly about it rubs me wrong. why do you care if he is "helping himself"? this feels coachy to me...or...or something....need to think on it.

[curiouskarmadog]

Anyone who thinks I'm scum after how hard I pushed PD to the front of the lynch line is stupid.

dont give me this WIFOM bullshit.

besides, is my fucking vote on you?...am I not allowed to say something bothers me, without you bullying me?

[curiouskarmadog]

also I have a WIFOM card too.

remember snakescum coming out of no where a couple days back trying to push a bullshit case on me when he got information he shouldnt have from the mod?

yeah, I thought you forgot that.

[curiouskarmadog]

waiting for LMP to address my post.

[vollkan]

Anyone who thinks I'm scum after how hard I pushed PD to the front of the lynch line is stupid.

Pure WIFOM

+2 LMP

And answer CKD.

[RedCoyote]

Vote Count

evilpacman18(0) -
curiouskarmadog(0) -

LynchMePls(1)

- a2rudeboy
vollkan(0) -

a2rudeboy(1)

- curiouskarmadog
lewarcher82(0) -

Not Voting(4)

- evilpacman18, volkkan, lewarcher82, LynchMePls

With 6 alive, it is 4 to lynch

Deadline: December 5th, 2010, 1:30 AM, Central Standard Time

[lewarcher82]

Mod: check the votes

, your votecount may be inaccurate. LMP is voting CKD, not A2, ad far as I see... and I thought a2 had unvoted... so lmp should be at L-3, and so CKD.

I doublechecked it; it's fine. LMP unvoted ckd and is not currently voting. a2 unvoted pacman then voted LMP.

[LimMePls]

interesting....so..if you are "worried" of a vollkan/CKD scum team, why arent you pressing it further? Why does that worry stop you from voting a2?...does that mean you wont vote him at all today because of said worry? the above statement rubs me completely wrong. maybe it is the phrase "you are not helping yourself"....not sure what exactly about it rubs me wrong. why do you care if he is "helping himself"? this feels coachy to me...or...or something....need to think on it.

Not sure which of these rhetorical questions I'm supposed to answer, so I'll answer them all.

1) I'm not sure what angle to push it from. I need to reread the game.
2) Because I don't want you two to win? Isn't this obvious?
3) You're not helping yourself is another way of saying "you keep making scummy posts". It isn't coaching.

@Vollkan: Would you lynch CKD? Why or why not.

I gotta say, I'm really frustrated with this game. The game stalled due to mod abandoment, it came back and people floundered, and I had to be the one to rejuvinate the game by rereading and finding the stuff about PD. It feels like I'm doing all the work in this game.

Vollkan is really making me jumpy. I'll have some observations later, I don't have time for it now. I'd love it if other people could put half the effort into the game that I did in finding PD scum.

[curiouskarmadog]

why is vollkan NOW making you jumpy? you guys have had 4 NIGHTS and not once have you stopped a kill....what really are the chances?

[evilpacman18]

I'm gonna be LA for a bit. Family issues.

[LimMePls]

why is vollkan NOW making you jumpy? you guys have had 4 NIGHTS and not once have you stopped a kill....what really are the chances?

Pretty large. Have you ever tried JK'ing to prevent night kills? It's not easy. For one, you can't put the protect on a claimed PR if you want the PR to be able to use their ability (something a Doc does very well), and you can't use the RB to try and stop a scum kill if you're afraid you might stop a vig kill on scum (and we had multiple vig/vig-like abilities). Effectively using a JK is not easy, and I don't think 4 whiffs by itself is evidence of scum.

Still waiting for any of the town players in this game to engage in a meaningful way. Do I really have to do all the work?

[LimMePls]

Ok, something just occured to me. We know we blocked Lew two nights ago, and that is why his kill didn't go through. And we know that he chose not to kill last night. Now let me ask you this, what are the odds that scum with a kill would have chosen not to use it, just for the wifom of it? Does anyone else out there think this makes lew more likely to be town than scum? Why/why not?

[LimMePls]

@Vollkan: Can I have a link to your two most recent scum games and your two most recent town games?

[LimMePls]

@Vollkan: In our QT you said something to the effect of (paraphrasing and not quoting the QT, for the record) "Even if Lew and a2 are scum buddies, Lew must shoot a2, because if he doesn't, he'll be caught by town for the backtrack". How do you feel about this given lew's no-shoot action?

Reread commencing, no idea how much time I'll have this weekend for this.

[vollkan]

@Vollkan: Would you lynch CKD? Why or why not.

No.

I see no scumminess in his play. Your case against him is mostly gut and a conspiracy about SS.

you guys have had 4 NIGHTS and not once have you stopped a kill....what really are the chances?

Very good, if you take a closer look rather than simply saying "Four nights + no kill = suspect"

I've already explained this, but I'll elaborate:

N1 and N2, I was chosen on the conservative rationale that I was a good protection choice without any risk of being roleblocked. However, the kills on both those nights ended up being on claimed power roles, which I wasn't. When I was arguing for protecting you on N3 I actually made the point that I didn't think it was likely that LMP or I would be targeted, since neither of us had claimed. And I've already explained our thinking N4.

N1 and N2 it was unlikely that we would do anything, and that was partly the point. If scum did try to kill me, I'd be saved, but otherwise there was no risk of interfering in anything.

N3 we chose lew and we've explained our reasoning for doing so.

N4 we basically had to pick from Pacmnan, yourself or Jack. Unless you're suggesting that we would have been more useful if we JKed

you

, I can't see what you think we should have done.

Ok, something just occured to me. We know we blocked Lew two nights ago, and that is why his kill didn't go through. And we know that he chose not to kill last night. Now let me ask you this, what are the odds that scum with a kill would have chosen not to use it, just for the wifom of it? Does anyone else out there think this makes lew more likely to be town than scum? Why/why not?

As I said:

If lew is scum, his scumteam has two kills at his disposal. Now, last night it was 5;2. If scum used both NKs on town, they could have brought that down to 3:2 (LYLO). However, that would obviously mean that, come today, Lew would have been exposed to possible suspicion for the death of another townie. In short, there would have been a risk for scum in making two kills. At the same time, there was a very strong scum motivation for scum to only use one kill: it would put us into what is actually a LYLO situation right now (4:2 with two scum kills) and also would also carry the prospect that, if today we didn’t factor in this risk (eg by operating on the assumption that lew is town), we might actually No Lynch today (thinking it was MYLO when it is actually LYLO) and, thus, lose.

It's not about WIFOM.

If Lew is scum, a 4:2 LYLO is not appreciably different from a 3:2 LYLO, except that the former has less risk of him getting suspected. This is doubly so if a2 is lew's partner, since that would mean that he'd have to justify vigging somebody other than a2. Anyway, even after a scumlynch at 4:2, it goes to 4:1, then scum's NK makes it 3:1 or, if lew is the surviving scum (which becomes more likely if he doesn't NK since he avoids suspicion and being lynched at 4:2), it goes to 2:1.

Conversely, as I said in that same post, there is no town reason not to NK. Accordingly, I think it does make him more likely to be scum.

@Vollkan: Can I have a link to your two most recent scum games and your two most recent town games?

My wiki has an up-to-date list of all my games

But otherwise, some of my most recent:

Town:

Alternative Vote Mafia Vanilla. Survived until 3:1 LYLO. This game had preferential voting, and all three other players gave me their first preference, causing me to be lynched and us losing the game.
Popularity Mafia: Vanilla. Survived until 3:2 LYLO, whereupon one of the other townies voted the third, causing scum to hammer and win.
/in-vitational 8. Weak Doctor. I replaced in, on that same day pushed the lynch of scum, who then claimed Doctor so I countered, causing me to be NKed (so my involvement in the game was very short). Town ultimately lost.
Disgaea Mafia. Vanilla. Replaced in D1. Nightkilled N1. Scum won.

Scum:

Prison mafia. Scum. Survived until 4:3 LYLO; however, the game was abandoned by player agreeement because the mod vanished and a heap of players either weren't posting or needed replacement
Scummies Invitational Scum. Vigged Night 2. Town won (very easily; it was a 15-player game and the game ended with 8 still left alive).

@Vollkan: In our QT you said something to the effect of (paraphrasing and not quoting the QT, for the record) "Even if Lew and a2 are scum buddies, Lew must shoot a2, because if he doesn't, he'll be caught by town for the backtrack". How do you feel about this given lew's no-shoot action?

I didn't consider the possibility of him no shooting in our QT discussion on it. I assumed he'd do it as town, and my frame of mind was "If he is scum, he can't shoot anybody else, so he has to kill a2", which didn't contemplate the prospect of a no kill.

[lewarcher82]

it is interesting, vollkan. I had shot a2 back on n3. I had no idea why it didn't work, you let me speculate about town/maf docs roleblockers for 6 pages, and finally it turns out that I was jailed by you. And now you contemplate the option of us being scumpartners?

I did not shoot because I did not want to put town on 3:2 lylo. Already explained that.

I now post my priority chain, from the scummiest to the less scummy:

a2rudeboy

>

vollkan = evilpacman

>

LMP

>

CKD

I feel like LMP is a honestly frustrated town. He actually did a lot of work.

sidenote: it is stupid and anti-town to jail a town vig to protect him. It is not pro-town for a vig to shoot, but it is pro-town to prevent him from shooting?

[curiouskarmadog]

not sure why pac is tied with vollkan.....again there were two nights that he was either blocked or tracked..and he isnt making the kill..I get it doesnt clear him, but it gives him town points...on the other hand vollkan is part of a couple that can either protect a townie OR stop a kill and somehow the mafia is assigning a killer and killing someone that these two arent getting...FOR 4 nights....like pac, it doesnt damn them, but it gives them some suspicion.

if we werent in the position we might be in, I would push for both vollkan and LMP going....that being said, both are not scum.

one last bit...vollkan is an awesome player...as scum, he has bested me 2-3 times...I just cant read him....if I were mafia (and I have seen this occured 1 maybe two times) I would have offed vollkan a long time ago....however he is still around...(thus the has anyone played with vollkan before" question.)..again doesnt mean jack in this game because no one is admitting to it.

again, has anyone played with vollkan before?