Mafia 121 -- Picking Simplicity Game Over

[Jack]

Uk, AGar is not claiming a convenient dislike of meta. He does this every game.

DON'T GIVE ME THAT META TRASH

[UncertainKitten]

mothrax demonstrates he completely missed my point ^-^.

[Haylen]

@rc. Yes I do still find haylen scummy. Will lay out a case when I get to my computer (later today)

Are you sure that you're not just trying to appear as though you think I'm scummy when you only made one really random mention of me earlier which seemed like an attempt and getting a bandwagon started?

Kinda insulted here that AGar compared my play to Shotty's. Hey, AGar, if you follow the instructions in my sig and post 'Go Hayl', I promise you I will try to be a better player It's funny cause in Ladies Night, Sotty told me to stop trying to improve and I'd be a much better player, so I have and I'm not I'm not a shitty scum player either, AGar, do you really think I would still be under attack if I was scum here? I've been told that as scum I seem to have an odd ability to dig myself out of pretty much any hole.

Because Haylen has a certain personality to her. I was just curious how that would change your read, if at all.

What did you mean by this?

Oh, Haylen. Why would you say this? Ugh. Can we just lynch you and AGar? Would that be okay?

Only if we lynch AGar first. If he's not scum, I'll eat my slipper socks and go down without a fight.

Fixed quote tag. ~~NS

[UncertainKitten]

...You know, Haylen, doing the same thing that AGar did does NOT make you look pro town.

Seriously, I really could not give two damns how *good* you are as scum. This game is

this game

. If you are scum, you

will

be caught, whether you

think

you will or not. So don't give me this "I've only been lynched X times as scum" BULLSHIT.

[Haylen]

lol the format of your post is hilarious, btw. It made me giggle. Cause there's stars and stripes just like the american flag and you're initials are UK.

Oh hush, I'm giving AGar a choice with what line of thought he's gonna take now. He's either going to go against what he said just now and be entirely hypocritical or he's going to have to change his stance on me.

BTW, if he keeps calling me a crappy player, I'm replacing out cause I don't have to take shit like that from anyone.

[Nikanor]

@AGar's post: First, being abrasive is a scumtell if you aren't abrasive as town.
Second, your argument about being good as scum is dumb. You obviously can't use meta properly. Just because you haven't fucked up in the past doesn't mean that you can't fuck up in this game.
Third, I'm not trying to improve the site and rid it of VIs and whatnot. I'm trying to win

this

game, and I believe that lynching Haylen will not help me win this game.

[AGar]

I believe it will.

I pointed out why her play has been scummy, it's just an added benefit to me that it's also bad. Apparently if I start off a case, and then add in more points that aren't the exact same as that case I started with, I'm scum. And UK is lolz saying I will get caught. Ok there.

You guys keep setting your double standard up so conveniently. "Haylen is town because of meta!" Someone says I behave like this every game. "NO META IS WRONG."

Nik - did you ignore what I said about you not being able to read Haylen and basically saying I'm wrong because of what you see as a null-meta read? The giant hole I poked in your balloon?

Haylen, where's the scumhunting today. You said you sit back on D1, so I assume that means you should be coming back with a vengeance today? Oh, you're just sheeping along and not providing content. Cool. That's bad play, AND beneficial to scum (HOLY CRAP THEY CAN BE MUTUAL GUYS).

Moth probably isn't scum. Doesn't feel it to me.

[UncertainKitten]

If you must know, I'm not saying Haylen is town. I just don't feel she's scum yet. Kinda in the middle, know what I mean?

I'm not meta clearing her. So please stop including me in that set.

Also, lolz at you attempting to use self meta earlier to state that you wouldn't. I also note that you never responded to my jab about how you basically were saying we should never vote you.

[Glork]

I'm alive. I've not been able to follow up on the thread, and it's my own damned fault. Tomorrow is my first day off in ten days, and I'll get caught up on everything then.

Apologies,
Glork

[UncertainKitten]

Was wonderin' in the back of my head where the hell you were. I look forward to seeing what you have to say when I return from the orewellian win that AnUSA will be.

[AGar]

Also, lolz at you attempting to use self meta earlier to state that you wouldn't. I also note that you never responded to my jab about how you basically were saying we should never vote you.

Fact != Meta

[UncertainKitten]

I think we have different opinions on what meta means. And while you might be using *facts*, the *way* you are using them is far from factual OR logical. But good try.

[Nachomamma8]

Anyways, case on UK.
ISO #2: It was quite obvious in Glork's post that he found Jack more stupid than scummy. He doesn't vote in the post even though it's only page 2, which should be the first tipoff. He also asks Jack if he thought the claim through at all, which again, suggest more stupid than scummy. In no way does Glork infer that there is NO WAY that Jack is town, as UK suggests with her response by saying "I disagree with Glork... some [town intent] could exist..."

ISO #29: This is such a terrible vote. If she wants a bit of meta to "qualify" CJ's behavior, then why doesn't she just click on his name and press "search posts"? Or even look through her own? It's also another vote that has no reasoning behind it whatsoever.

ISO #49: Oh, come on. "Yeah, I started the wagon, but it was probably scum who did all the leg work". Since when did you need the help of scum to push a long a wagon you felt strongly about? This post is basically an acknowledgement that she's looking for people to pin the blame of the Snake wagon on.

ISO #50: Oh, look. She's not doing what she said she was going to do FIVE MINUTES AGO. If she was looking for people who helped push along the Snake wagon, then why isn't she looking at people ON the snake wagon?

ISO #51: Oh look, neutral read.
ISO #52: Oh, look, neutral read.

ISO #53: A SCUM READ? WHAT? Oh yeah, that was her #2 suspect yesterday, which she voted for with shitty reasoning. She added on stuff, but it was just, *gasp!*, MORE SHITTY REASONING!!

ISO #54: Oh, thank god. For a second there, I thought she was actually going to take positions on things. Another neutral read.

ISO #67: "Don't string me up in the next 8 hours"? Where did this come from? The only one who posted any suspicion was me, and she should not have been concerned I actually have a case on her this time; I mean, I attack her all the time according to ISO #55, so she should be used to it by now...

Can I has lynch now?

[Jack]

Anyways, case on UK.
ISO #2: It was quite obvious in Glork's post that he found Jack more stupid than scummy. He doesn't vote in the post even though it's only page 2, which should be the first tipoff. He also asks Jack if he thought the claim through at all, which again, suggest more stupid than scummy. In no way does Glork infer that there is NO WAY that Jack is town, as UK suggests with her response by saying "I disagree with Glork... some [town intent] could exist..."

But this doesn't make ANY sense from a town protown perspective.

I disagree with Glork about lack of town intent behind it, since I think some could exist

response is reasonable, don't quibble

/quit reading case

Fixed quote tag. ~~NS

[Jack]

I read the rest, and don't like it. Not good and I doubt your sincerity.

[Nachomamma8]

Interesting.

[LimMePls]

@AGar's post: First, being abrasive is a scumtell if you aren't abrasive as town.
Second, your argument about being good as scum is dumb. You obviously can't use meta properly. Just because you haven't fucked up in the past doesn't mean that you can't fuck up in this game.
Third, I'm not trying to improve the site and rid it of VIs and whatnot. I'm trying to win

this

game, and I believe that lynching Haylen will not help me win this game.

Pretty much this.

[Nachomamma8]

No comment on the UK case? Why not?

[eldarad]

^^No it isn't. Look at Antihero's post after Azazel's "I need to see where this goes" buisness. That post is from scum. Period.

Yes it is.

From #431, the first quote is where Azazel votes for antihero and then disclaims his vote ("I don't want him lynched but I think I need to see where this goes.") This is a good, solid point against Azazel.

The second quote in antihero responding to Azazel's vote, where he explains why he made a random vote after the supposed end of RVS. The bit that you call appeasement is nothing of the kind -
Azazel: "Antihero is the only one who hasn't commented on Jack's claim"
Antihero: "regarding Jack's claim, I agree with UK"

That's just a normal, natural reaction, there's no appeasement there whatsoever. In fact, the lack of original statements/opinions goes against your appeasement logic, as you'd expect someone trying to appease a questioner to come up with something new as an answer.
You can't have it both ways.

And Nik's #57 where he moans at Glork for giving scum advice does smack of scummniess, so I've no problem with that vote.

The third quote is, if anything, a point against Azazel. And I'm not even sure it's that.

So how you can come up with a case on Azazel and then proclaim that antihero is scummy, with Azazel scummy by association, is beyond me.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: LMP

~~~
AGar, it's not particuarly the 'slip' that bothers me, its more that your push on Haylen looks suspiciously like a policy lynch dressed up with a thin veneer of "she looks scummy" and when that is dismissed using a meta argument you say "well, she's playing badly too. And those two things aren't mutually exclusive"

It just doesn't feel right.

[LimMePls]

*bangs head on wall*

Look at Antihero's post in response to Azazel. IT WAS SO SCUMMY IT'S SICK. The association on Azazel is when he suddenly unvotes and votes me for voting Antihero. That portion is not what the case was, the case was against Antihero for the post he made. This is not hard.

[Jack]

I don't get elderad's vote.

[Jack]

Xine, you should vote...

[Lowell]

A little catch-up post, from the top. Ignore the first part if you want:

37- jack claims cop/doc, explains w/ something something
40- emp hates claim, doesn't believe it, FOSs jack, says jack shouldn't be the lynch [-, what?]
50s-60s- more folks chime in about jack, nothing else happens
73- LMP defends himself [+]
80s- Emp and LMP discuss Nik's scumminess, or lack thereof
108- azazel isn't "sold on LMP/nik pairing" [-, huh?]
137- LMP leads w/ 4 votes; Emp, Lowell, Sudo have 2
150-200- mindless walls of text
201- LMP leads w/ 5 votes, Emp has 4
203- moth joins empwagon
204- glork calls wagon terrible
209- snake enters, unvotes
210- UK votes snake
217- glork votes snake
224- lowell unvotes emp, votes snake
231- LMP votes emp
232- snake votes emp
238- glork explains case on snake [+]
239- anti votes snake
248- Emp leads w/ 6 votes, snake has 5
256- horrible disasterness from snake
257- moth votes snake
261- agar votes snake
286- CJ has no other reads, votes snake
291- glork votes miller
294- lowell votes miller
295- haylen votes miller
311- UK votes miller
313- snake leads w/ 6 votes, emp has 5, miller has 4
323- glork unvotes miller, goes back to snake
332- UK unvotes, revotes snake
359- yos votes azazel
364- yos changes his mind, votes snake
368- snake leads with 8 votes, emp has 4
369- LMP votes snake
370- snake self-votes
390- jack votes snake (lynch-1)
399- jack unvotes, votes moth
409- emp votes snake
412- jack hammers
419- snake (town), yos (town), and miller (town) dead
421- sudo declares jack not the doctor [-]
425- UK votes lowell
427- nacho votes UK for being terrible [+]
438- nik votes xine, declares him SK [-, ?]
455- Lowell votes UK
456- emp votes UK
460- UK rages [-]
466- haylen offers bizarre defense of nacho [--]
474- emp votes haylen
477- nik votes AGar for having too much info on haylen [+]
478- vas votes agar
480- UK votes Agar
481- AGar leads with 3 votes, haylen/moth/UK have 2
482- haylen votes AGar
492- eldarad votes AGar

vote AGar

. I agree that he revealed too much information in his deriding of haylen's play. The subsequent explanation doesn't fly with me.

I change my mind about nacho, he's town. And his case on UK is good-

fos UK

. Nik, vas, and emp are town. Sudo, probably not (I don't understand post 421 at all).

I seem to remember everyone throwing a fit when jack claimed cop/doc, and that LMP got bandwagoned for even half-heartedly defending it. But that thread has been mostly dropped today, suggesting it was a lot of crocodile tears. I don't quite know what to make of it, but it suggests that jack didn't make a mistake by claiming, and that people like glork (

fos glork

) were trying to shut it down for no reason.

[AGar]

@Mod: Votecount, please? Thanks yo.

[Vi]

Votecount 2.02

AGar - 5 - Nikanor, VasudeVa, UncertainKitten, Haylen, Lowell
Haylen - 2 - AGar, Empking
mothrax - 2 - RedCoyote, Jack
UncertainKitten - 1 - Nachomamma8
Antihero - 1 - LynchMePls
LynchMePls - 1 - eldarad

Not Voting: Antihero, Glork, mothrax, Sudo_Nym, Xine

With 17 alive, it takes 9 to lynch.

Deadline: November 23

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