Mini 1049 - Hide and Seek Mafia - FINAL Kablooie!

[Iecerint]

Oh. I also forgot that that was directed at saporovirus, though. So there is that point, too.

Oh boy.

[Iecerint]

camn, if you agree that lynching someone on vezok's wagon is ftw, why did you claim it wasn't a scumtell just a moment ago?

If I was bussing, he could be too.. it is not a tell.

Incorrect. Being an unflipped player on vezok's wagon when so much of his wagon has already flipped means that being unflipped on that wagon has become a scumtell.

just FTR... I agree completely!

O.o

[saporovirus]

Camn: agreed.

When I said you were inconsistent, I meant in the sense that you try to incriminate people based upon things you yourself practice. You also seem to be implying Mike is uselesstown. You haven't been towny-town this whole game. You're also inconsistent in what you think is towny and what you don't think is towny.

Also: WHOAH SHIT IS HAPPENING.

also, Iec: she's trying to get someone to quickhammer I think. Which hmmmm...

[Iecerint]

I think it's an attempt to avoid the lynch (regardless of her alignment). It's not really an attempt to get someone to quickhammer.

I am extremely annoyed that MFB briefly implied knowledge that camn was lying. That kind of thing is all the excuse anyone (scum or otherwise) needs to justify a quickhammer. That it was not an accurate implication makes my tummy hurt.

[saporovirus]

Could he perhaps be attempting to avoid a claim of any sort? Though that would be a very silly way to do it. "YOU'RE LYING. Oh ummmm well I just think you are."

[Iecerint]

Well, if he WERE a light sleeper, that would be fine. Crumbing the information is a fine way to get your stuff out there, though it would appear to have been a bit unnecessary in this case.

But he wasn't, so his behavior could have misled someone. At best, he was posturing and didn't consider his words very carefully.

[saporovirus]

Oh yah, he's straight up saying "No" to Camn's q of whether he is a light sleeper who stayed in his room.

[camn]

camn, if you agree that lynching someone on vezok's wagon is ftw, why did you claim it wasn't a scumtell just a moment ago?

If I was bussing, he could be too.. it is not a tell.

Incorrect. Being an unflipped player on vezok's wagon when so much of his wagon has already flipped means that being unflipped on that wagon has become a scumtell.

just FTR... I agree completely!

O.o

Its just semantics.

Being on the wagon is not a tell.
However, from POE, we can reasonably conclude that there was at least ONE SCUM on Vezos wagon, as I know you understand.
But POE cuts both ways.. you AND me are on it. You can't use it as part of a 'case' against me without including yourself in the mess.

But that is irrelevant.

Sapo: do you agree or disagree to my terms?
I have burnfire down as : DISAGREE
And my apologies for including you in my ultimatum, Ice. I got confused about who was on and who was off.
I do like your ability to answer the question, though. It goes to your townieness.

Let me keep track better:

burnfire: DISAGREE
saporoviru: UNCOMMITTED
nopontina: UNCOMMITTED

[camn]

But he wasn't, so his behavior could have misled someone. At best, he was posturing and didn't consider his words very carefully.

SO TRUE!!

[Iecerint]

If something makes you more likely to be scum, that is a tell in my book.

My complaint -- as I have indicated, but to be clear -- is not that I dispute it going both ways. It's that you argued that Iectown would not use "one scum on vezwagon" to find scum. That kind of rhetoric appeals to 3rd parties who use gut over logic -- who think "Hey! Iec's not being fair! Scum!" -- but not to Iectown's PoV (who wants to maximize the chance that a target is scum). So I still think it's scummy rhetoric.

I agree that it is semantics in the sense that it depends on what you meant when you said it.

I think Saporo said that she agreed. I have no idea why, but w/e:

Camn: agreed.

[Iecerint]

To clarify -- I can imagine a universe where a town person would mix that up (i.e. it's not a RELIABLE tell because WTF YOU DID IT vs. i agree that it will push the probability in that direction).

But it looked like you were rhetoric-ing. Not unlike what MBF did. <_<

Except that MBF doesn't have a troubling vote history AFAICT (have not checked in detail). <_<_<

[camn]

Oh good.

burnfire: DISAGREE
saporoviru: AGREED
nopontina: UNCOMMITTED

OK, burnfire... that is one agreed.
Get me lynched by Sat, or at least one vote goes down the tubes.

@ Ice: I LOVE finding scum by POE.
BUt calling it "Bussing" was really my issue. Bussing =/= Process of Elimination.
But I see how you meant it more clearly now.

[camn]

And, you are right. MBRs hammer smelled more like a buss than Me starting the wagon out of nowhere.
But we can WIFOM that to death.... using the argument that I am SO GOOD AS SCUM that I insta-buss

ALso.. I actually go to work tomorrow.. so I will disappear for 16 hours now.
I'd like Nopoint's agreement or disagreement...

then I would like you guys to try AS HARD AS POSSIBLE to but together a lynch on me!
At this point, I think everyone on the Vezo wagon needs to die. Nopoint SHOULD be first.. but I am willing. If you guys have the balls

[Iecerint]

Fair enough...I didn't mean "bussing" in the context of evaluating the specifics of a point when a player changed his attitude toward a hypothetical scumfriend. I just meant that someone was lynching his VI-tier scumfriend ("bussing" defined liberally), so we should use PoE to proceed.

/off-topic

[nopointinactingup]

Inconsistent how?

Your reads on Katsuki flip flopped all over the places. And then you half went for me half went for Pom as if you were looking for a mislynch wagon to park on. The amount of Unvote you perpetrate is unlikely coming from a town because town has stance.

One of [saporovirus, NP, SX, camn, Elli] is scum.
Exactly one of [camn, NP] is scum.
One of [SX, NP, saporovirus, camn] is scum.
One of [Elli, camn, NP, SX] is scum.

The problem with assuming scums would be on any wagon is that you are assuming.

My attitude?

If one of me and nopoint is scum.. It's nopoint.
But I am not sure why you think that...
I do agree that there is scum on the Veso wagon.
I also agree that I do enjoy lynching people who aren't me!

So

Let's lynch both of us and see if you are right!
Nopoint first though...

vote nopointinactingup

Why are you agreeing to something you don't even understand? If you agree to it then you basically have scum-slipped Iec-town knowledge because he was in the same wagon as us.

Camn, I do not agree with your plan. If you really want to inspect the Vezo wagon then do it no one is stopping you. I see no reason to spill AtE and survival instinct all over the places.

[Iecerint]

You have to assume things to find scum. You can explain anything away as an "assumption."

Are there specific claims you object to, or is your complaint procedural?

[mikeburnfire]

Oh good.

burnfire: DISAGREE
saporoviru: AGREED
nopontina: UNCOMMITTED

OK, burnfire... that is one agreed.
Get me lynched by Sat, or at least one vote goes down the tubes.

Your arbitrary deadline is garbage, and just more evidence of you being scum. And like I said, if you aren't lynched by Saturday, then I will unvote you and proxy my vote to you. So I, too, am agreed.

[Iecerint]

1. Your arbitrary deadline is garbage, and just more evidence of you being scum.
2. And like I said, if you aren't lynched by Saturday, then I will unvote you and proxy my vote to you.
3. So I, too, am agreed.

What on earth is going on.

[camn]

Nopoint: what am I agreeing with that I don't understand?
I think there has to have been scum on the Veso wagon.
Ice said that EITHER you or I are scum, but not both.

To me those are different.

Also, I believe I was pretty consistent re: Katsu. .. And I have never been accused of not taking a stance before. I think both of those statements misrepresent my play.

What is your answer to my ultimatum, btw?

I now have
Burnfire: agreed
Sapovirus: agreed
Nopoint : uncommitted

@ mike: it isn't garbage. It is good time management.
The last thing we want is to waste 3 weeks talking about me, then quickwagon Nopoint just before deadline.
This plan avoids that.
You are agreeing to lynch me NOW if you can. If NOT then you give up for the day, and we look at someone else.

[mikeburnfire]

Ice,
Basically, there's an overwhelming amount of evidence that camn is scum, and if the town is just going to let camn live, then I'm proxying my vote to her so she can kill us all quicker.

[saporovirus]

I'm agreeing because I want other people to weigh in on this wagon or at least effing talk.

[Iecerint]

Yeah...SX is still being coy about his hammer yesterday. <_<

The problem with agreeing is that if camn is scum, whoever else is scum just needs to lurk through Saturday to drastically reduce the chance of his/her scumfriend being lynched.

You made your choice on the premise that everyone is town and will rally if given a deadline, but ye know.

[SpyreX]

Coy?

You mean "not on site as per my V/LA"?

Well played.

And, no, I didn't realize it was the hammer.

However, even if I did I still would have done it.

-----

Now, maybe I'm missing something awesome BUT today is lylo.

So, I don't get camn's business some (saying for today) BUT I really don't get MBF willing to throw in the towel if by Sat a consensus isn't met.

I DOUBLY dont like this happening while I'm VLA.

[SpyreX]

Which OF COURSE, means that what happened today thus far will open a few doors.

Unvote

[mikeburnfire]

I really don't get MBF willing to throw in the towel if by Sat a consensus isn't met.

It's a simple matter of giving the town the authority of my vote. If the majority of the town is against camn's lynch and won't vote her, then the consensus would be that camn is town. If this is the case, then I will not waste anymore of my time on this game. Let her mislynch a townie as she always done, and free me from this game.

In addition, you have never expressed strong suspicion of camn being scum. So would you have a problem with me giving her my vote?