Newbie 1027: Trick or Treat! [Game Over]

[Huntman800]

and puts [Gude] as one of his top three suspects.
@Hunt - Why is your read on Gude now scum? Your ISO #17 presents only a few wisshy washy reasons, and other than that you haven't really presented/contributed to a case against him. Are your reasons the same as andrew and Thor's, or do you have others?

For one thing, the reason he is in my top three is that I only

have

three suspects. As far as me changing my ideas, when I posted 16 (on my ISO), I hadn't really ISOed him, so when I said he was null, I was referring to how people were mad at him for 'not seeing the preview edit' and how that was a stupid reason. As I wrote 17, I realized he wasn't as null as I'd though. Now for an ISO...
My Reasons Against Gude: (I wrote these without reviewing other player's reasoning, so if anything overlaps, it's because I actually think it)
1.) I don't see how all of my reasons in 17 aren't good. If Gude really wasn't following Thor, then his complete reversal in opinion against Park seems suspicious. Also, while he may have had a reason to vote Park, once he unvoted he started to provide reasons that... Well, they weren't very good.
2.) As for things that I didn't list in 17: Overall, I've seen extremely little reasoning out of him. When he first votes for Mania it's only to "create pressure", yet it could also be that he's trying to seem like he's doing something. Is this not odd? On his ISO #26, he also provides very bad reasons for his top scum candidates.
3.) On 27 he says that him removing his vote to avoid a hammer is ridiculous because Park is still in danger of one, wasn't really true then, not at all true now.
4.) I guess he was also excited to get FOSed? All right, maybe that's not a good reason, just seems odd to me...
5.) His reaction to being voted for irks me. Like in ISO 28: He seems rather aggressive in retaliation to Chkflips vote, the fact that I haven't noticed it earlier could mean that he's simply getting nervous now...

Are these reasons good enough? I think they are, so

my current read on Gude is still Scum

(it is bolded for anyone who asked)

@huntman, I responded to your points last page. What did you think of them. I would like to hear where your case on me stands.

You know where I stand, as for your answers:
1.) All right, not as detailed as I want, but fine. The fact that you voted for him out of emotion is kinda weird though...
2.) If I rephrase this you say, "I totally believe that Mania is scum, despite me not having enough information to go on."
3 and 4.) So, despite you not having enough information to go on, your only actual scum read is Mania?


I think overall, Gude's answers help to reinforce the ideas that he has gone this game without inputting as much reasoning as we need from a town player. I'm am doing what I'm about to do for 2 reasons: 1.) There is

definitely

a possibility that he is scum. And 2.) Even if I am completely wrong and he is town, I don't see how he could be helpful to us. So:
@@VOTE: Guderian

[Guderian]

huntman, that last post strikes me as odd.

Half the reasons you posted could be copy pasted for anyone in this game.

You say your read on me is still scum. Isoing you reveals this is the first time you have thought that.

And your last paragraph is either extremely scummy or not thought out.
1. good job genius. I dont know if you realize everyone could be scum
2. like I said two posts back, how am I not helpful? Because I have done ........what to prove that?

Would you mind quoting my own words to build your case?

Your posts reads as an interesting reiteration of some of chkflips points, some cookie cutter points, and nonsense.

[Thor665]

Addressing the more recent issues, I do not find Gude scummy (bring on the accusations of me being his buddy ).

How much do you think Guderian is scumhunting?
How much do you think Maniamax is scumhunting?
Put them on a scale with Mothrax from most to least scumhunting, please.
Quote might be relevant.

Thor - Town. However where's the eagerness you showed before gone?

Is it gone?
Or is it that other players are posting more often so I don't feel a need to constantly be commenting on everything?

@Guderian - you seem to have dodged/ignored my last handful of questions/replies to you - reasons? I consider some of them important.

@andrew - I actually don't think much translation is needed between you and Guderian, but here's my quick rundown for both of you on what you're missing;
Andrew - Guderian understands that the post review feature exists and has never claimed otherwise - stop trying to prove to him it does.
Guderian - andrew is really just calling you scummy for sheeping me at the unvote stage - focus on that if you want to defend the point and stop acting like he's saying not using the review feature = scummy.

Done.

[Thor665]

2.) Even if I am completely wrong and he is town, I don't see how he could be helpful to us.

[IC hat] Don't vote for people you believe are town [/IC hat]
If you don't think he's scum then I don't really want you on the wagon. This game isn't really big enough to vote off people just because they won't be all that helpful to town (if that were the case I'd probably still be pushing parknourie)

[Thor665]

Also - GUDERIAN IS AT L-1.

"Accidentally" hammering someone is not an excuse now that I've posted this. Hammer only because you want to hammer.

I'd like a Guderian claim.

[Guderian]

I have been responding to this fabricated accusations for 5 pages. No one has changed their mind. Why waste time responding?

Truly, I believe there is nothing I could say to get you off me for whatever reason.

My last defense

I'll leave you with this, do my actions really make sense from a scum standpoint?

If I was scum would I have unvoted so fast to raise suspicion, constantly ask for prods from a scumbuddy, been so prominent day 1 or try to generate discussion? I could easily have coasted under the radar like 3-4 players in this game are doing. Vote a few wagons and move on to d2. If I was mafia here I would be ashamed at the idiot game I had played.

[KittyMo]

Vote Count XIV

[L-1] Guderian - (andrew94, chkflip, Thor665, Huntman800)

[L-3] chkflip - (Maniamax, Guderian)
[L-3] mothrax - (parknourie, ooBAZZoo)
[L-4] parknourie - (mothrax)

[0]

Not Voting

- ()

With

9

alive, it's

5

to lynch!

Deadline is at Wednesday, November 24, 2010 at 4:30:00 PM (Los Angeles time).

Prods & Replacements

mothrax will be replaced tomorrow if he doesn't post.

[Thor665]

If I was scum would I have unvoted so fast to raise suspicion [snip] been so prominent day 1 or try to generate discussion?

I did both, you seem to think I'm scummy. What am I missing?
Also, what is the Mafiascum game mechanic you believe we are lynching you for?

[andrew94]

ffs, thor ur missing my case that after you pointed out that gud wanting to prod sambo is a scum tell becos of how chpflpip is currently acting, guderian decides to create attention by prodding maniamax and stuff. why> - to prove that hes not scum because hes prodding 2 people.
but thats after u point it out. + he rolefished and a lot of other stuff that you guys obviously cbf reading

[Thor665]

@andrew - I am well aware of why I believe Gud to be scum, I was only explaining the part where you guys kept slamming your heads together with an inability to understand each other. I never intended to suggest the clarification point was the full extent of your case. Please relax.

[Huntman800]

huntman, that last post strikes me as odd.

Half the reasons you posted could be copy pasted for anyone in this game.

You say your read on me is still scum. Isoing you reveals this is the first time you have thought that.

And your last paragraph is either extremely scummy or not thought out.
1. good job genius. I dont know if you realize everyone could be scum
2. like I said two posts back, how am I not helpful?

Because I have done ........what to prove that?

Would you mind quoting my own words to build your case?

Your posts reads as an interesting reiteration of some of chkflips points, some cookie cutter points, and nonsense.

It isn't what you have done, it's what you haven't done. There is nothing to quote because you haven't done anything to help the town. In fact, you have even admitted it, Gude. You have said (see bottom) that pretty much all of your votes have been from emotion, with no logical backing. It's almost like you aren't trying. This is also

not

the first time I've pointed at you (see here).
Fine, if you want to prove that you will help figure out who the scum is then explain how "Half the reasons

posted could be copy pasted for anyone in this game."

As for Thor, I have a very strong feeling that Gude is scum. Though, you should know that by saying those words it becomes even more difficult for me to unvote without people getting suspicious towards me.

As for places where Gude has said that he hasn't provided evidence:

I realized my case on him sucked

(Him refers to Park)

I dont have much to go on and I am attempting to round up people for a random lynch

(Same post as before, referring to Mania here. Random lynches are not good for us... (Which is why, Thor, I votes for Gude because I feel that he is Scum)

Totally possible i dont have enough information

That's all for now...
P.S. NOW I see how preview editing works, I scrolled up

[Guderian]

Well my job is to find the scum, and if it takes my death to accomplish that, so be it.

Thor, the point was this 'case' against me was launched because andrew claimed i was scum for not seeing the preview. I didnt realize I could scroll up. From there you join in saying it was a valid point.

Here is the truth. There are currently TWO scum on me and two dumb town.

Here is the town:

andrew. his case on me is so ridiculous he cant possible be scum. (Btw I have been ignoring his posts in case anyone was interested)
huntman. he is blindly sheeping along however much he considers he isnt.

here is the scum:

Thor
chkflip

Now, I realize it will be a bitter pill for some of the players in this game to swallow to consider thor is scum. He has a great rapport with many players in this town. To build a case I must begin by chipping down the foundations.

which lead me to chkflip. He should be the most obvious scum in this game. He vote hops then disappears. Seeing as the four people on me are totally set I call on the remaining 3 villages in this town.

We must lynch chkflip today

Dont be fooled by any emotional arguments or case established on me saying how scum I am without evidence, because that is what each and every person voting me doesnt have.

If we lynch chkflip today we have one scum, and tomorrow we move onto Thor.

thank you.

@mod, you said mothrax was being replaced?

He has until tomorrow to respond by my activity rules. I know that he's having a family emergency right now, but since he hasn't talked to me privately about his situation, it's likely that he'll be replaced to take the burden off him and to make sure a player that is consistently active will be around. ~ KittyMo

[Thor665]

If I was scum would I have unvoted so fast to raise suspicion [snip] been so prominent day 1 or try to generate discussion?

I did both, you seem to think I'm scummy. What am I missing?
Also, what is the Mafiascum game mechanic you believe we are lynching you for?

^^^
A brick wall - I am talking to it.

[Huntman800]

For the record, I am not totally set. Not at all. However, I am more inclined to vote Gud than I am to vote Chkflip, and to get me away from Gud,

someone

should probably provide more information.

[Guderian]

You must be blind. I answered it already. I detailed it MANY MANY times, in my last post and before.

The fact of the matter was that this case was launched on me by andrew because I didnt not realize what preview edits where, that thee could be multiple and that you may miss some if you dont scroll up and read them all. I missed that because I didnt realize that was a feature of this site.

The fact that you didnt see me saying this makes you either very thick or scum.

Thank you for your time.

[Thor665]

@Gud - fair enough, now answer the first part of the post which you didn't answer.

[Guderian]

You want me to build my case on you now?

[andrew94]

gud, that was all you answered, you did not answer the rolefishing attempt

and ur repeated big wanting to prod others

u also are ignoring me

[mothrax]

@Mod: requesting replacement. Sorry, cutting back to 0 games untill my mom gets better.

Noted. I hope she feels better & that we see you playing again soon. <3 -- Kitty
I'll get a replacement request in the queue soon; handling something atm.

[Guderian]

mothrax hope everything gets better soon with your mom.

[mothrax]

Thx, I will be around in the GD for a while (that doesn't take near as much effort as a game...

[parknourie]

Mothrax - I sincerely hope your mother gets better. After you are replaced, I will try my best to get you lynched!!

[Thor665]

You want me to build my case on you now?

If responding to the question obligates you to do so - yes.
I want to know why you're pointing out things you say wouldn't happen as scum when your top suspect is doing two of the three things you listed.

[parknourie]

It is interesting to see quite a number of you turning your backs on Guderian.
Thor initially read town on him earlier on, which quickly changed into his suspect after a number of mirror moves performed by Guderian.
Andrew has been waffling so much about Guderian's inability to recognize the preview posts.
Huntman had the most perceptive idea and good reason to vote on him.
Chkflip? Guderian's arch-enemy. I am personally more inclined to vote Chkflip than Guderian at this point. Saying why would be over-repeating myself.

I personally believe Guderian is just misunderstood town. His recent flailing shows the sign of desperation which I, in most of my games as a town, showed.
I would be more comfortable with lynching Mothrax (or whoever his replacement would be) or Chkflip at this point.
But if it is a real neccessity, I wont hesitate to ask Guderian to claim and hammer him.

[ooBAZZoo]

How much do you think Guderian is scumhunting?
How much do you think Maniamax is scumhunting?
Put them on a scale with Mothrax from most to least scumhunting, please.
Quote might be relevant.

To an extent, all three players have lacked in the scumhunting department.
Guderian has scumhunted the most of the three I think. Whilst he hasn't contributed much to the discussions recently, this is mainly because he's been forced on the defensive by the drawn out case that has been made against him. His conclusions haven't been too strong, but he's asked a lot of questions.
Maniamax has scumhunted very little. He makes a reasonable case against Chkflip when he votes him, but this is about the only contribution he has had. He hasn't been active in trying to find scum either.

I think, however, that it is important to evaluate

why

these players haven't scumhunted as little as they should have. My read of Maniamax is newb-town, which (though it doesn't make it ok) explains his lack of scumhunting. Also, Guderian has had to spend his time responding to the many cases against him, which to some degree justifies his lack of contribution too.

---

Part of the reason I'm voting Mothrax is because of his lack of contribution to cases, and his lurking. However, asking for a replacement clearly shows that his lurking was not scum motivated. This slot still sits relatively high on my scumlist, but I no longer think the case warrents a lynch without more information. I also think whoever his replacement is should be given a chance to read through the thread and respond to the issues we've had with this slot. Therefore:

@@Unvote

---

Sitting high on my scumlist now are Thor and Chkflip. I don't have all too much time now, but will be conducting a detailed analysis of their play soon. I'll give a quick brief of my reasons now though:
Chkflip - for similar reasons to those who already find him scummy; mainly for the ease at which he bought the Gude case.
Thor - because I see two wagons having been formed (on Park and Gude) for very poor reasons, both of which he has ardently tried to push to a lynch. I read scum trying to guide town into a mislynch.

---

@Maniamax - I'd like to see more from you. What do you think of some of the reads other players have? Do you have any queries of players? When offering your opinions you can't be wrong, so don't be afraid to throw them out there. Everybody honestly saying how they read the situation is what makes a good town and is vital to beating scum who, from the beginning of the game, have more info, and thus an advantage.

@Chkflip -
1) With some issues being raised about the Gude wagon, how strongly do you now feel he is scum? (as a percentage, with some explanation please)
2) What's your read of Thor?