Mini 1049 - Hide and Seek Mafia - FINAL Kablooie!

[Iecerint]

I'm not sure why you're doing what you're doing, no. Those are not conditions that make me think someone is town, no.

[SpyreX]

Thats not what I even pretended to allude to.

If you were town and I was scum this would be like a kid in a candy store for YOU. I mean, scum-SpyreX saying he has a case but not giving it right away? Its just a matter of waiting for me to not deliver and BOOM.

But, no, that's not what you did.

I mean, saying I did this hoping someone ELSE would do it and I could go "Ohh yea, see, SEE"

Woooosh.

I'm waiting for a couple key reasons. It is important. I need to believe.

[Iecerint]

Um, no. If you do bullshit like "I have a case try to guess it" I am *already* in the candy store.

Anyway, I haven't prevented you from giving a case. And it's not as I have prevented anyone else from doing the same.

I have not entered said candy store because the prior probability of NP or camn being scum is higher, so you have wiggle room from me than you ordinarily would.

[Iecerint]

Basically, you did something scummy, and now are arguing that you are not scum for having done something so ostentatious.

Does not compute.

[camn]

Are you talking about Ice throwing dirt on you for hammering... When MpR s hammer was way more suspect?

[camn]

Veso hammer = scum
MPR hammer = untested, barely suspected (except by me)
SPYREX hammer = ice's entry point for a potential case?

[mikeburnfire]

I have no idea what's going on anymore. The back-and-forth between Spy and Icerint looks pointless.

[saporovirus]

I do not understand most of it. Also:

V/LA

until Monday night.

[saporovirus]

furthermore:

UNVOTE

[camn]

I have no idea what's going on anymore. The back-and-forth between Spy and Icerint looks pointless.

Do you see what Spy is referring to?

[Iecerint]

SX's behavior clearly has a point, one way or the other. Describing our interaction as pointless is what really makes no sense.

As for camn's theory of what SX is going on about -- if that's it (my slot did X in the past; therefore, I cannot judge people who do X), it's pretty much the same logical error as when camn disputed my point about vezokwagon membership (except that it should be even clearer that it's an error, because in camn's case we're talking about VC analysis and in SX's case we're talking about a player's strategy or whatever).

[Ellibereth]

/check in prod avoid that I'm here.
barely any time right now.

[camn]

God damn it, elli.
If you are scum this game I am policy lynching you for lurking for the next year.

[nopointinactingup]

I don't see Spyrex's hammer as scummy because I think he likes to hammer. I want both of you to stop insinuating though.

[Iecerint]

Incorrect. SX has claimed that he was unaware that he was lynching Dizzy/Pome.

Also, the hammer is not the only reason that SX is scummy.

[nopointinactingup]

All the more reason for me to believe Spyrex did not have a scum motivation. What other reasons?

[Iecerint]

Taking it that way requires you to believe that SX really hammered mistakenly. Which, I mean. "OK," but.

Other reasons I have mentioned several times in the past few pages is his lynch history in general (on all townie lynches; off all scum lynches), and setting up a Pome/Katsuki dichotomy without backing it up that didn't go anywhere.

[nopointinactingup]

1> On town off scum doesn't prove anything. Scums are more likely to be on a town wagon but also more likely to buss.
2> Town makes dichotomies too in case you've forgotten. According to Spyrex, he hammered Pom/Dizzy by accident so he couldn't have backed it up.

[Iecerint]

1. Really? I doubt it. That implies that activity itself is a scumtell, unless you're defining buss in a sneaky way that forces scum to do it more.

2. Of course they do. The scum are not given to us like manna from heaven. However, when town make scum dichotomies, there's usually something going on upstairs, or some rationale that connects the implicated players. Scum just grab scummier townies (though I didn't think Pome herself was that scummy) and gogogo.

Also, SX's Pome hammer has nothing to do with whether his dichotomy was bull.

[Iecerint]

Town players in this game: please stop using bogus logic and/or rhetoric. It is messing up my scumhunting.

[DrippingGoofball]

Your twenty-second VOTECOUNT was hiding in the flaming closet.

camn (2): mikeburnfire, nopointinactingup
nopointinactingup (1): camn

With 7 alive and seeking, it takes 4 to lynch.

[SpyreX]

Back home so I guess we'll play what was I actually alluding to.

The first part that you guys didn't touch (the MPR part) is simple:

When the "hammer" was first alluded to in 244 AND right before it happened there was something being discussed: manipulation of the night mechanics for an edge (something I STILL think there can be work done).

It wasn't just a quickhammer, it was a shut-up hammer.

But, that's not important in comparison to what I really wanted you to look at:

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 7#p2568527 <--- ISO 1

There's a lot of words there, I'll give you. However, up through page 14 is already a Vezok lynch. So, that is bell one.

Bell two is far more important. And continues. There's no bite. Everything is quantified and baby-steps.

BUT, that could be fine. If it stops:

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 4#p2570594 <--- ISO 3

Of course it doesn't. There IS something to note here though that continues. Which we'll get to later because I LIKE ME SOME SUSPENSE.

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 4#p2570604 <--- ISO 4

AHH, here we go. Kat is scum, NP is scum. Camn is 110% town.

BUT, what's missing?

OHhHHHhh thats right.

A vote.

There was NO vote ever that day. None. He cheerleaded the hell out of that bandwagon but never bit.

So, that's phase one. Phase two:

I don't understand why you think Pom is scum. She seems town to me.

Why do you think she's scum?

Apart from that, it was just that her comments sometimes mirrored my own impressions as I read through.

Also, part of the reason I asked is that Pom is such a lurker in general that I dunno how you find her scum except by PoE.

Spell out Pom. I came to the conclusion that she was town during my readthrough. Why did you think otherwise?

That leads to:

Pom, if you think NP is the scum, why didn't you vote for him?

Vote: Pom

Answer my question.

Thats the reason for the jump. Which then sits there back and forth over business like:

So, you most want to lynch Jenni, or Pom? I wouldn't consider either Jenni or Pom to be particularly useful so...

Also Pom did not play the game and that is scummy but she is also Pom so I mean maybe it is just Pom.

Which turns into:

I am leaning toward supporting lynches on camn, MBF, or SX. I would prefer one of those first two.

NOTE WHERE THE VOTE IS.

NOTE WHO ISN'T THERE FROM THE FIRST ISOS.

But, lets continue. To the real nugget that made my eyes raise:

I re-edited it with colors and edited it so one name goes with each player:

mongoose (7): saporovirus, nopointinactingup, SpyreX, Katsuki, camn, Ellibereth, vezokpiraka
vezokpiraka (6): camn, The Buttonmen, Pomegranate, Katsuki, nopointinactingup, Iecerint
Katsuki (6): SpyreX, Pomegranate, nopointinactingup, saporovirus, camn, The Buttonmen
Pomegranate (5): Iecerint, Ellibereth, camn, nopointinactingup, SpyreX

AN1: I personally apologize for being on the Pome/Dizzy lynch...I originally voted her to pressure her into answering, but then forgot about it. I certainly didn't think she would be hammered without claiming her hiding places, etc.
AN2: It's a little weird that MBF has never been on a lynch. MBF, is that par for the course for you?

One of [saporovirus, NP, SX, camn, Elli] is scum.
Exactly one of [camn, NP] is scum.
One of [SX, NP, saporovirus, camn] is scum.
One of [Elli, camn, NP, SX] is scum.

I am most inclined to lynch camn at this time, on the grounds that someone was likely bussing vezok (it's VEZOK), and I know it wasn't my slot; and that I am leaning town on NP at this time. Since yesterday, I have not gotten the sense that she is interested in finding scum, but rather in lynching players who are not her; her attitude toward MBF's vote for her today is typical.

Outside of that dichotomy, SX's slot looks the worst for being on town lynches and only on town lynches. He also vocally pushed to lynch the two most recent town lynches.

SX, were you aware that you were hammering Dizzy yesterday?

saporovirus needs to assist me with this immediately. Are there any dependencies you've worked out about who may be scum? Do you dispute anything I have asserted?

Camn went from 110% town to #1 scum based on "typical" play this game.
NP went from #2 scum to town based on...?
And then, of course, I'm the scum for being on town and only town lynches. Because, of course, he wasn't. EXCEPT FOR THE FACT HE CALLED KAT SCUM, NEVER VOTED AND WENT POM IS TOWN AND SAT ON THAT WAGON AND TO HAVE THE SHEER GUMPTION TO GO "WHOOPS MY BAD" IS NUTS.

And, if that's not enough:

I will not stop trying to lynch you given an arbitrary deadline, no.

I could imagine being convinced to lynch NP or SX or whomever.

These are the kind of situations under which I would be convinced not to lynch you. Not because it became Saturday. That is dumb.

The exchange between camn and MBF is extremely

interesting

.

Bold is amazing and I'm ashamed at all of you for not raising some eyes.
The italics is one of those things that REALLY makes me go when he flips scum both you two are town.

And, lets not get started with my "still being coy" (i.e. not being online) about the hammer and get to the final part.

Look at the responses since I looked at his actual voting history versus what he's claimed and said I saw some nuggets.

Do those look like someone with nothing to worry about? Or, even better, someone watching "the scums" feed themselves into the maw?

Or, do those look like someone pre-defusing a situation? Because, in fact, there's something to hide.

Unvote, Vote: Ice

If I'm right Camn AND MBF are probably town. Sapo still reeks town from early but I would have to re-calibrate to make sure. Elli or NP make the most sense.

[SpyreX]

tl;dr:

Cognitive dissonance is awesome.
Qualified language is also awesome.
Fear instead of joy or indignation is also awesome.

Be a winner, lynch for dinner.

[camn]

NOW THAT

!

THAT

is the spyrex I know and love.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: ICEREINT

(for all the haters... remember this post?)

SCUM IS IN THESE THREE:::

Spyrex

tanstalas

Tans was feeling pretty town to me, but I don't know him, so maybe he fooled me.
Spyrex has flashes of his town-ness.. but something is strange about him.

Maybescum if nopoint flips town.

nopointinactingup

Far_Cry Budja

POE on the veso wagon puts NP and/or Icrint as scum. NP jumping on the Dizzy wagon was also funny . .

SCUM

.

Iecerint

MehPlusRawr

MPR should have been lynched for the abrupt hammer of Vezo. Icerint saying >I< was bussing Vezo when his pred MPR pulled he biggest buss of all? suspect.

probscum

.......
Spyrex, if you are town.. we need you too. Look at this nonsense.

[mikeburnfire]

Yes, congratulations camn. The way you determined that "Icerint may be scum or maybe perhaps somebody else is" was fascinating. I especially liked the part where you called Icerint "almost 100% town" to throw him off the trail.

Spyrex, your case is very solid, I must admit. There is a lot of evidence for Icerint-scum that I had not picked up on. But I disagree with you on camn. I would appreciate it if you would take a look at the case that I made on her and give me your opinion on it, other than "you raise points". Regardless, I have speculated for awhile now that Icerint was camn's scummate, so I can happily oblige an Icerint lynch if that's where we're headed.