Mafia 121 -- Picking Simplicity Game Over

[Jack]

The hardcore AtE + the continued refusal to scumhunt = scumSnake; I like my vote.

[Haylen] has spent this game making AtE excuses, stalling, and active lurking.

Xine's points on Haylen...fail pretty badly

[LimMePls]

LMP: Maybe I was getting a bit too narrow minded during my read through on you. But I saw you as possibly scummy early on, something that I would have quickly voted and pushed for had I been there when it occured. It just so happened that you did a lot more scummy things since then that made me feel more that you were scum.

How can you admit to maybe being "narrow minded" during your first read? Are you saying you saw early stuff and then that lead to confirmation bias? How does that explain your "these two have different alignments, but I don't know which is which" bit? If you thought early on that I was scum, then wouldn't you say "I think these two have different alignments, and I think LMP is the scummer" or something like that?

For the lack of reasoning, you're quoting posts, and adding a few words summary to that. There's not much real content you're adding, as well as the fact that people have said a lot of that before. I felt as if you just were quoting most of Snake's posts so it looks like you really did have reasoning for voting him.

So quoting someone's posts that are scummy and then explicitly pointing out after the quote what was scummy is equivalent to "quoting most of Snake's posts so it looks like you really did have a reasoning for voting him"? How do you know it is "trying to look like having reasons" and not the more obvious "actually having reasons"?

With the Yos flip, I saw it as such:
Both scum: I don't think Yos would do so much buddying on LMP, while this is WIFOM, it's still very risky, because as soon as one of you flipped scum, it would lead to a large suspicion on the other.
Both are town: Yos defends LMP trying to get a different wagon for what he saw, and LMP takes it knowing he has at least one person that agrees with him.
Yos is scum, LMP is town: Yos would be defending LMP to try and get town cred, by going against one of the wagons early on, if LMP was to come up town.
LMP is scum, Yos is town: This one you can't look as Yos's defense too much, but LMP's responses to Yos seemed as if LMP was desparately trying to find something to grab on to.

Nice try, but this isn't answering the question. The question is, on D1, how would you know that we're opposite alignments from that interaction. As you just summed up here, there are perfectly plausible explanations for scum-scum and town-town. What exactly made you assume that we had to be of different alignments? You don't satisfactorily explain how our interaction can't be town-town, and your "both scum" above may be unlikely, but can't be ruled out. Your statement that we were "different alignments, but I don't know which is which" is inexplicable.

I love that only having a couple posts a day is somehow scummy, simply because my number of posts dropped from the first day. Here's a random thought: Perhaps I just happened to be more active on the first day than my norm, and the rest of my activity has been consistant with my usual play. Why would you immediately leap to the more sinister conclusion that the first day is my "norm" and the rest of my play is what is anomalous?

Your case is contrived.

@Jack: 2 scum there, if Azazel/Nacho isn't scum with Antihero, they might all 3 be scum.

P-edit: @Jack - Those quotes win.

[Jack]

@Nocmen: why did you disqualify "both are town"?

[Nocmen]

@Nocmen: why did you disqualify "both are town"?

I couldn't find a reasoning behind both of them acting as their own will for that, as I'm just not seeing much of LMP's play being consistent with town. While it is possible for both of them to be town, I think it's a lot more unlikely.

And yes LMP, I do feel that I had a bit of confirmation bias towards you during the read through. With Yos's defense, I started to possibly show some dobut of you, that went away as I read through it more.

[Jack]

So basically you think that yos and lmp are of opposite alignment because you think lmp is scum and yos can't be his scumbuddy.

[LimMePls]

I couldn't find a reasoning behind both of them acting as their own will for that, as I'm just not seeing much of LMP's play being consistent with town. While it is possible for both of them to be town, I think it's a lot more unlikely.

This is directly contradictory with:

I think that Yos and LMP are of opposite factions, but I don't know which of those two would be the scum.

And your explanations are fail. The only conclusion I can draw is that you contrived your whole opening posts to end setting you up to vote me. Your statement that you maybe were "narrow minded" only furthers that thought. Which makes me think you are scum looking for the most convenient mislynch.

Unvote
Vote: Nocmen

Your buddy Antihero is for tomorrow.

[Nocmen]

So basically you think that yos and lmp are of opposite alignment because you think lmp is scum and yos can't be his scumbuddy.

Well I know that Yos isn't his scum buddy.

LMP: How is that contradictory? I think it's very unlikely that both you and yos are town, isn't that what I said in both of those quotes?

Also, what say you about the rest of the case I have on you?

[LimMePls]

LMP: How is that contradictory? I think it's very unlikely that both you and yos are town, isn't that what I said in both of those quotes?

Also, what say you about the rest of the case I have on you?

"I'm just not seeing much of LMP's play being consistent with town" and "I think that Yos and LMP are of opposite factions, but I don't know which of those two would be the scum." are directly contradictory. If you felt like I was scum and he was town, why wouldn't you just say that? You seem to be arguing here that my play was scummy and his was townie, but when you made the post you said "I think that Yos and LMP are of opposite factions, but I don't know which of those two would be the scum." which implies that you think I could be town. Thus a contradiction. You also fail to satisfactorily explain how you would think that 1 of us is town and 1 scum.

The scum motivation I see here is that you wanted to appear to arrive to LMP = scum conclusion through the course of your "read", but early in the read you seem to already have your mind made up without sound explanation. You now suggest that you saw stuff early that you made you suspect me and then got "narrow minded", but that doesn't make sense if you were at "I don't know which is town". The whole thing is contrived.

I mentioned quote by quote the rest of the problems with your case. They are above. Read it yourself scumbag.

[AGar]

@AGar: If you don't do anything with meta, why did you think that we shouldn't vote you because you've only been lynched as scum twice

in previous games

.

So, please, I'm getting sick of this "I don't do meta" bullshit. At least qualify it with "I don't do meta unless I'm trying to save my own ass"

As for Haylen, she's been becoming progressively more scummy as she continues to be useless. At this point I would probably support a lynch on her...assuming you, Lowell, and Xine were dead first.

As for you claiming you think Haylen is scummy, the problem is you start out like that, and then it slowly devolves into "Haylen is a bad player". Jack correctly called you out on this.

And yes, I've actually seen several people who are unwilling to lynch Nacho. So yes, he's a popular choice for not lynching.

Hmm...though, actually, didn't AGar say something about how antagonism isn't anti town if you always do it? Or was that someone else? Because if it was him it is yet another ~*~convenient~*~ disrespect for his *NO META* rule.

- I said plenty of times - ego trip. I honestly don't think you guys would catch me if I was scum. If it was meta, I'd be like "I do this, this and this as scum, none of which I'm doing," to save my own ass. My ego about my past record shouldn't reflect a meta argument, considering all I said was "You won't catch me, no one ever does."

- Why does it matter what it devolves to? The fact of the matter is that I have pointed things out - what is usually referred to as

a case

- and moved on to the rest. Yes, Jack called me out on it. I am not challenging that. I'm challenging why you voted based on that, and have ignored the fact that I have pointed out that while there was beratement, there was also scumminess.

- Again, you

completely

ignored the fact that I said I find town reads to be more communal than scum-reads.

- I asked since when was being antagonistic anti-town, Nik said only when you don't do it as town.

When you read selectively and choose to ignore the parts of my posts that validate what I'm doing, that's the kind of behavior that persuaded me to vote your wagon. You were on my "Don't lynch" list for a good part of D1, and even a bit into D2. But your vote was placed on one thing, as far as I can tell, and that's my case on Haylen is centered around her being a bad player (false) and a "convenient dislike of meta" (also false).

[UncertainKitten]

...Dammit Jack, why you gotta be so convincing?

Did he ever explain himself for that? Note that I don't tend to find contradiction on it's own scummy, but that is a good example of what *is* scummy contradiction, since he's trying to push a lynch on Xine for something he himself did.

@AGar: You really don't understand what meta means. At any rate, what it devolves to matters because it heavily implies that you don't believe what you are saying. And what is there to say about it? It seems like a thing with no bearing on this conversation. And yeah, I checked what I was saying just to be sure and you didn't actually say that.

And frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn what you think is "false" because, hilarilously enough. it...hahaha, isn't.

Also you're somewhat misrepping my reasons for voting but hopefully those are clarified in this post.

[VasudeVa]

Since when was 'You won't catch me, no one can' not-meta? It is 100% meta. It is meta of you being a good scumbag. Nonspecific meta, but meta regardless. ANY shout-out to past play is considered meta. That's the main thing about it.

And I don't believe you. In your #608, your case is sooo centered on Haylen being a bad player(which I admit, I'm seeing.). But your attacks are centered on her uselessness and her uselessness alone. Even disregarding the flips of CJMiller and Snake(You called her out on not joining the Snake wagon and subtly coying over to the CJmiller wagon.). Your case on her is severely outdated, and now you are just capitalizing on her uselessness.

Actually, glancing over your ISO you are more interested in appearing Town and defending yourself rather than actually doing Town stuff. You are now just coyly OMGUS-ing UK's vote on you.

Plz lynch obvscum AGar, thx

[Nocmen]

@AGar: If you don't do anything with meta, why did you think that we shouldn't vote you because you've only been lynched as scum twice

in previous games

.

So, please, I'm getting sick of this "I don't do meta" bullshit. At least qualify it with "I don't do meta unless I'm trying to save my own ass"

As for Haylen, she's been becoming progressively more scummy as she continues to be useless. At this point I would probably support a lynch on her...assuming you, Lowell, and Xine were dead first.

As for you claiming you think Haylen is scummy, the problem is you start out like that, and then it slowly devolves into "Haylen is a bad player". Jack correctly called you out on this.

And yes, I've actually seen several people who are unwilling to lynch Nacho. So yes, he's a popular choice for not lynching.

Hmm...though, actually, didn't AGar say something about how antagonism isn't anti town if you always do it? Or was that someone else? Because if it was him it is yet another ~*~convenient~*~ disrespect for his *NO META* rule.

- I said plenty of times - ego trip. I honestly don't think you guys would catch me if I was scum. If it was meta, I'd be like "I do this, this and this as scum, none of which I'm doing," to save my own ass. My ego about my past record shouldn't reflect a meta argument, considering all I said was "You won't catch me, no one ever does."

-

Why does it matter what it devolves to? The fact of the matter is that I have pointed things out - what is usually referred to as

a case

- and moved on to the rest. Yes, Jack called me out on it. I am not challenging that. I'm challenging why you voted based on that, and have ignored the fact that I have pointed out that while there was beratement, there was also scumminess.

- Again, you

completely

ignored the fact that I said I find town reads to be more communal than scum-reads.

- I asked since when was being antagonistic anti-town, Nik said only when you don't do it as town.

When you read selectively and choose to ignore the parts of my posts that validate what I'm doing, that's the kind of behavior that persuaded me to vote your wagon. You were on my "Don't lynch" list for a good part of D1, and even a bit into D2. But your vote was placed on one thing, as far as I can tell, and that's my case on Haylen is centered around her being a bad player (false) and a "convenient dislike of meta" (also false).

From the part bolded, AGar, you would be okay with basically raising a case, and then ignoring it? Do you have intentions of coming back to the cases? Or are you just throwing cases, seeing which are the most favored by others, and promoting them?

[Lowell]

Just stopping by to silently endorse my own absence, wanted to point out that vas and noc are town. I'd give out Lowell's patented TOWNPOINTs, but whatever.

[AGar]

@AGar: You really don't understand what meta means. At any rate, what it devolves to matters because it heavily implies that you don't believe what you are saying. And what is there to say about it? It seems like a thing with no bearing on this conversation. And yeah, I checked what I was saying just to be sure and you didn't actually say that.

And frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn what you think is "false" because, hilarilously enough. it...hahaha, isn't.

Also you're somewhat misrepping my reasons for voting but hopefully those are clarified in this post.

lawl.

[AGar]

Nocmen, I'm not going to hammer uselessly at something when half the town can't be bothered to even fucking play. That's about all it boils down to.

[UncertainKitten]

So, can we get a noose around this scum? He clearly has nothing of worth to say.

[AGar]

Nope. I'm just gonna pull a lowell, I think. He seems to be coasting just fine.

[AGar]

Patiently waiting for the "OMG SCUMSLIP" post, btw.

[UncertainKitten]

OMG S...oh wait.

As for Lowell, I've been trying to get him lynched but apparently this town doesn't believe in lynching scum. Hell, I'm having a hard enough time getting you lynched.

[Nachomamma8]

EBWOP: Sorry, that last was a little harsh. But the point stands that no matter what I do you're going to erroneously assume I'm scum and probably not bother looking at anyone else til I die. Which is quite a dumb action.

Hmm, this is a fair point.
I think I might peruse through other players a bit soon... But based on what I've read, I don't think anyone can really replace you <3.

[UncertainKitten]

You do realize there are 4 scum in this game, right? 5 if you include the SK. I can't be all 5 of them.

[VasudeVa]

Nachomama, while you are here can you please answer my questions to you in #613 in regards to UK?

Also, thoughts on AGar plx.

(If there is already something like that somewhere, please feel free to quote and accuse me of skimming.)

[Nachomamma8]

Whoops. I last played with UK in Disgea 2, I think. Not too long ago. I was scum, she was town.
She's rusty scum for reasons that will be clarified on the Late Night show.
And if you played in a game where she played similar, please, link me. This UK is calmer than any other I've ever seen, and thus, she's either become a weed smoker, or she's scum.

[Nachomamma8]

Oh, right. And AGar is voting where I want him to be voting so he's fine and dandy until UK's dead.

[Nachomamma8]

You do realize there are 4 scum in this game, right? 5 if you include the SK. I can't be all 5 of them.

I only have one vote, love. Just because I'm not being entirely vocal about my other suspicions doesn't mean I don't have them.