Fringe Mafia (Game Over, role PMs posted)

[PogoStick]

I wonder if everyone is over in the alternate universe lol

[PogoStick]

And sometime before this game is over, I'd really like to know why setup speculation is bad, an informed town can make better decisions

and since aparantly I'm the only one with Internet access, I'll just go and say that 2 wrongs don't make a right

furc and I were basically accused of the same shit and he was town, I know my credibility is shot but eventually you guys will reakiza that Wifom and AtE ate not scum tells and lynching me will result in another townie dead.

That being said I know I'm the easy lynch but I assure you I am pro-town through and through.

[GhostWriter]

Setup speculation, depending on how it is done, when it is done, etc., is bad because: it can easily be scum attempting to plant false ideas about the game into the minds of the town, based on mafia's inside information into the game; scum attempting to plant true information about the setup in an attempt to look townie when they do a scum action to prove themselves right; even a townie doing it can be making the speculation in place of actual hunting.

[PogoStick]

Fair enough, the style of play is different here for sure, much smarter than the morons I play with on glb

[Doombunny9]

Gusy, ya'll realize that setup speculation is only really scummy if it distracts the town from scumhunting or people begin to take it like its fact rite?

Also, I want to hear from smar (Soras replacement) about the game.

@Ghost- Is there anything else you want to say? Being gone for a while and then just coming in for a brief talk about speculation isn't cutting it.

@HOMJ- Is this the only reason you have for voting Zang? This is pretty weak XD

HOMJ is my top suspect right now for reasons detailed yesterday. I don't want to put a vote down on him though until I hear more from bv, smar, and Ghost.

[PogoStick]

It nay be considered weak but that plus his limited activity yet monster walls of text struck me as odd. He seems to just join in on furc and my case without looking at anyone else

he doesn't really try to scum hunt.

[smargaret]

I'm here and will post a review of the game shortly. One thing that caught my eye though, is Hop saying quickhammers are scummy now?

[Shattered Viewpoint]

Why, generically, do people ask

other

people what

otherother people

mean when they say stuff? I mean, why not A) ask the speaker

directly,

or 2)

FIGURE IT OUT YOUR DAMNED SELF?

[PogoStick]

I'm here and will post a review of the game shortly. One thing that caught my eye though, is Hop saying quickhammers are scummy now?

different game, don't talk about other ongoing games

and it wasn't just the quick hammer, because tbh I would have done the same thing in that position, it really is more the fact that he comes in after being inactive and joins in on the top 2 scummy people.

[PogoStick]

Why, generically, do people ask

other

people what

otherother people

mean when they say stuff? I mean, why not A) ask the speaker

directly,

or 2)

FIGURE IT OUT YOUR DAMNED SELF?

Why are you not talking normally?

[PogoStick]

Doom, why did you feel the need to have SV name claim? I don't see any sort of motivation behind it and why would you honestly think he would oblige?

reading your ISO, I pretty much get a town read on you and than I see that question and I start doubting myself. I still think you are town but want to know your reasoning for asking him for a name claim

[PogoStick]

I am going to throw a

FOS

at Tony, anyone who directs vig to kill is scummy in my book.

[Zang]

Vote: HopOnMyJoystick

For same reasons as before and the stuff below.

vote zany

he could have waited for furclow to come and post one more time.

I already explained this. Having him claim would not have stopped his lynch, especially if he was going to claim vanilla townie. And why didn't you say this before? Instead of just responding to my post by saying that the town shouldn't lynch you.

And sometime before this game is over, I'd really like to know why setup speculation is bad, an informed town can make better decisions

All setup speculation is WIFOM, we have no way of knowing what roles/alignments are or aren't in the game. The mod has even said not to try to outgess the setup numerous times-

There are probably some ludicrously minor roles in this game. Attempting to use flavour to outguess the mod may not go as well as you think...

It nay be considered weak but that plus his limited activity yet monster walls of text struck me as odd. He seems to just join in on furc and my case without looking at anyone else

he doesn't really try to scum hunt.

I have limited activity in all of my games. I try to make up for my low activity with the "monster wall of texts". I also usually only focus on one or two people in the first two days. And I am scumhunting you're just not reading my walls of text.

and it wasn't just the quick hammer, because tbh I would have done the same thing in that position, it really is more the fact that he comes in after being inactive and joins in on the top 2 scummy people.

Then why did you only give the reason that I quick hammered him when you voted for me? And if you would have done the same thing, why did you think it's scummy that I did it?

[PogoStick]

I only gave one reason originally cause I was on my phone. Just letting you know you are barking up the wrong tree here so go scum hunt and let's not mislynch again.

[Doombunny9]

Doom, why did you feel the need to have SV name claim? I don't see any sort of motivation behind it and why would you honestly think he would oblige?

I wanted to see if his post restriction matched up flavor wise (And yes, I know that flavor isn't a good indicator of roles, especially in a bastard mod game but I wanted to see if his story checked out or not to the best of the towns power)

Still want to see something from bv, smar, and ghost before I settle on a vote.

[smargaret]

Okay, so my first question: If we have a vig, WHY ARE HOP AND SV STILL ALIVE? That is why we have a sk, not a vig, because VIs/annoying PRs are vigbait and any decent vig knows this.

Hop, yes or no: are quickhammers scummy? I'm very curious to hear what you believe on this topic.

Reading back here are my notes on everyone

Zang needs to be prodded, replaced, or just lynched.

TonyMontana needs to be more involved in the conversation of the game instead of just making useless posts, he has had only one serious game related post and that was his vote

sorasgoof - also needs to start participating, none of his posts have really been useful and just seems like words with no content

Shattered - even before he announced he was V/LA I thought he probabl was cause he hasn't posted anything of value

Nocman - has only one of his 3 posts are game related and that one posts seems awfully political, I now need to look if emp and bunny responded to his accusation that their votes on furc looked like scum votes. I think if someone is accusing them of scum they should at the very least comment on it.

LordChronos - he seems to lurk into the backround and comes out of nowhere once he finds somebody else to attack, I say that if furc is scum, I would give Lord my look as being his scum buddy. He is trying to direct the attention off of furc and direct it towards me on a very weak case.

GhostWriter - yet another inactive person that needs prodded or replaced

foilist13 - needs to be replaced or prodded, 1st post he claims his role (if he is telling the truth) which is very odd

Empking - has completely avoided any type of scum hunting

Doombunny - At first it looked like he was serious about scum hunting but ruins all credibility when he FOS's inactives. instead of FOS'ing them he shoudl request they get prodded. he does FOS me and I adimit I probably deserve to be FOS'd because I changed my mind, if changing my mind is scummy than yeah FOS me, but I personally don't think changing my mind is scummy.

furclow - now here is something interesting, remember what I said about Lord Chronos? Furc's first REAL vote was for.... Lord Chronos and the rest of his posts are defense posts and attempts to show he is pro-town

The problem with me is I have seen so many VIs get lynched on day one being town and it is just something people on this site like to do. Furclow does look like he is trying hard to seem he is pro town which makes him scummy but I have also read some of his games briefly and he is just a really poor player. After reading through I am pretty sure Andrew and Lord are scum buddies, but I think if furc flipps town, Lord is still a good option being scum.

You guys want to FOS me for flip flopping go ahead, but you if you have an open mind furclow is A. scum trying to act town or B. VI trying to save himself and he is town.

he is very confusing and because of that and because his flip will help me know more about Lord Chronos

Vote furclow

Oh this is just bad. Who is Andrew? WHY are you voting furcolow again? This just looks like a policy vote that you're trying to dress up with bows and whistles. Plus, all you have to say about the whole player list is that they're lurking? Surely you can come up with more than that.

Holy wall of text batman, I'll read up on this when not on my phone

not voting for lc cause I think Its more if furc is maf than lc is, not sure what lc is if furc flipps town

and this is just a straight up contradiction, since you're basically saying in the first quote "If furc is scum, LC is scum. If furc is town, LC is still scum," leading to the very appropriate question of why you're voting for the uncertain option over the certain, to which all of a sudden you're not sure of LC? That was an awfully fast change, Hop.

Sorry to interupt but it just dawned on me

furc, someone asked you a question about your role to go with your name, you plan on answering him?

But earlier, fur was scum for claiming too fast. Hop, why don't I like your play? Null leaning scum.

A quick word about setup speculation: It's not inherently bad or scummy. There are times when it can be quite useful to town, such as when trying to figure out who's fakeclaiming in a massclaim scenario, or when trying to get a slow game started up. While I think it's worth considering sk/vig, we shouldn't get too distracted that we forego scumhunting.

Ugh. Unfortunately, Hop is right about Empking. No scumhunting, no reasoning behind votes, just hopping on VI wagons. I hate agreeing with Hop. Empking, who do you think BESIDES HOP is scum?

SV has an annoying post restriction and must die. Do we want to deal with trying to read that in LyLo?

Tony needs to post more, but what he has seems decent. +town points.

I like Zang for now. The sudden change to hammer furc makes me uneasy, but his posts are logical and I agree with his reasoning. Null leaning town.

My read on Doombunny is totally null, and is the reason it's taking me so long to do this. On the one hand, I like his posts. On the other, he's giving the impression of going for the easy lynches in the lurkers/SV/Furc/Hop crew. But that could just be town wanting to get rid of someone day 1 ... argh. Null for now, but expect that to change when I see how he's scumhunting instead of just rereading the game.

All others: Lurkers. Post more.

VOTE: Empking

EBWOP: *hands Doombunny a present*

Do not like how quickly Hop gets so upset at Zang

Also, there's a difference between speculation based on actions and speculation based on flavor.

[PogoStick]

no I don't think quick hammers are scummy, but I think Zang quick hammering when he basically pops in and joins in on the 2 wagons without really commenting on anyone else IS scummy

[PogoStick]

if you read my games you will have seen me basically disprove every buzzword you guys like to throw out there.

Quick hammers are not scummy
game setup speculation is not scumy
WIFOM is not scummy
AtE is not scummy

people need to stop looking at buzzwords and start using the big thing 3 feet above their ass. This is a game about logic and reasoning, not a game of let's throw out buzzwords and run people up because of it.

when you are town, you have to go in with the mindset of what you would do if you were scum and go with it.

now sit back and ask yourself if you were mafia would you be playing like how I am playing. (yeah OMG you will have to use WIFOM to decide this answer)

if you come back with a yes than by all means put me at L-1 and let me claim

if you come back with a no or a hmm I don't think i would play that bad, than unvote me and go look elsewhere.

[smargaret]

My meta is not your meta. How I play as scum is not necessarily how you play as scum. So no, I would not do what you are doing if I were scum. Of course, I wouldn't do it as town or indie either. This is why WIFOM is bad.

[PogoStick]

Guess I never thought of it like that, guess I need to stop it

[Doombunny9]

After rereading again I'm beginning to dislike Ghosts play so far.

Post #0- Confirm post.
Post #1- This is a fair enough post considering it was still early in the game
Post #2- Fluff. Just correcting a mistake I made.
Post #3- Eh, I suppose it could be worse. This is still early in the game.

At this point Ghost goes AWOL for a while until he gets prodded

Post #4- "I'ma check up soon (False btw)

He then goesAWOL again until today

Post #5- "Lol! This is what I have to say about speculation! Please excuse me as I have nothing else of importance to say!"

You'll notice that during this sever lack of posting he never once places a vote on anyone or makes any attempt to scumhunt at all. I will

Vote: Ghost

. This vote is partially a real vote and partially a pressure vote.

[PogoStick]

Or there is nothing better to go on and the vote is there for pressure to see how you react and how people react to your wagon. Cause, you know, that's how things often go down, especially at the beginning of the game.

forcing me to go back and look at his ISO,

funny he makes this comment to furc yet he doesn't even have a vote on anyone

FOS Ghost

[PogoStick]

Hop: Do you have a positive read on anyone? Because it looks very like that you're keeping your options open?

going back readking EMP's ISO and funny he asks me this yet he doesn't provide opinions on anyone himself and is basically hopping back and forth between furc and I

unvote, vote empking

[PogoStick]

edit after post - and if setup speculation was really scummy I would expect him to explain why it is, not just say it is.

I explained I am newer to this site and am trying to figure some things out, this isn't scummy this is trying to be an informed player and if trying to be informed scares him so much, well than he must be scum.

[PogoStick]

Maybe before the weekend oficially starts we can get sone discussion going?

Waiting til Monday is gonna suck

right now

fos everyone not posted anything if value yet this day phase

and also cause quite frankly I don't even care anymore, if you say you are going to post a catchup post, you better do it

we got new guys who replaced inactives who are now inactive themselves. Yes I have an unrealistic expectation on activity but I seriously doubt anyone can't get 20 minutes in a single day to hop on (no pun intended) and contribute something.

And if you don't have 20 minutes to spare, heck even 10 minutes at this pace is enough, but if you can't do that than why are you even playing in the first place?

Mafia is about interaction with others, can't have a game without it

/rant