smargaret wrote:First in the Case Against Fate, Bhavitgoyal. His iso is reproduced in entirety below:
Yeah, there's nothing. Nada. Not a single post. + scumpoints for starting out as a lurker. So he gets replaced by xvart.
Thanks KoC, saved me the time. OBV Case padding is OBV
Xvart doesn't post any sort of response to the game so far, just jumps right in. Now, I can tell that this is sometimes hard to do, but the BS wagon looked so scummy, surely there was something to comment on there? Just jumping in isn't a playstyle I'm familiar with - most people seem to at least skim the thread when they replace in, especially if it's under 30 pages when they do so. xvart did no such thing.
xvart didn't read the thread? Lemme check.
He said he didn't read it
fully
, not not at all. And this is lazy play not scummy play by him. He also did the only thing that matters (no one else had done) VC analysis, so it isn't like his chesskid vote was entirely baseless without reading the thread.
xvart starts rolefishing. Yeah, I was softclaiming, but there wasn't a real need for a fullclaim - I offered later in the day, and only one other person said that they wanted me to claim. So I'm already predisposed to think Fate is rolefishing when he talks about running people up to get a claim.
There was a need. IIRC you guys didn't even let him claim. And your softclaim lead to his MISLYNCH. Obviously your "information" wasn't accurate, it was bullshit. Xvart trying to tie you down to a claim "yes he's 100% scum, lynch is a go" was BASIC PRECAUTIONARY ACTIONS, that if taken, MIGHT HAVE SAVED US that mislynch.
Also you admit that you are PREDISPOSED to thinking that I am the same player as xvart therefore my strategy will be exactly the same. (aka rolefish, as if that's all scum fucking focus on).
Then there's the mess with the post restrictions. Pushing a series of policy lynches instead of scumhunting (and that's the important part, the INSTEAD OF SCUMHUNTING - xvart wanted to go through and lynch chesskid day 2, then the other two prs days 3 and 4 if we didn't hit scum) is a bad idea any day but day 1 - there's stuff to actually scumhunt on, and xvart ignored it in favor of an unsupported policy lynch.
I just read through his ISOs 9-12 and that looks like a SHITLOAD of scumhuntign to me. xvart apparently thought this game could be broken and that SC would balance out PRs the same way he did last time. Misguided and anti-town? Yeah. Scummy? Meh, if you think scum are gonna sit there and say "I want ot line up these three lynches based off post-restrictions" as a strategy? Not likely.
Funny, xvart thought Parama was the sk as well. Does anyone who knows the xvart and Fate better than I do know if it's likely that they'd get the same exact read like that? Not even dayvig/sk/delayed nk, but agreeing on the role?
hey read my god damn ISO. I thought Parama was scum on my catch up UNTIL xvart pointed out SK. That made alot more sense given Parma's interaction so yeah, I agreed with him. You implying that "Fate's scum because he took xvart's reads and mirrored it" are UNFOUNDED. You think scum strategy upon replacing in is "I'll have the same exact reads as my predecessor and push the same cases" then you aren't a very thoughtful townie are you.
xvart wrote:Let me be more specific:
The Stove
- why did you not vote BE yesterday instead of Baby Spice? What changed overnight that made you insta vote BE without further evidence or justification?
LL
- why did you not vote BE yesterday instead of Baby Spice? What changed overnight that made you insta vote BE without further evidence or justification (other than your "amazing scum hunting skills)?
xvart.
More rolefishing, but this is more subtle - the only thing that's happened since BS's lynch was BS's flip, the nk/dayvig, and any night actions people may have. So pushing these people specifically is essentially asking them to admit to night actions and possibly describe them = rolefishing. This is the towniest of all the rolefishing this spot has done, but it's still pushing it.
You admit that he's being townie by trying to get reads on people who have made sudden changes in stances. IF YOU THINK assuming that everyone who had a change of reads "has pr info, don't press them on it" you're gonna get worked over by scum.
Nothing wrong with the self-meta? And the "I'd be happy with this lynch" sounds scummy, especially after I softclaimed - you should want to lynch scum.
You softclaimed so everyone should stay away from your lynch. "this is scummy because he should want to lynch scum, and im not scum" my GOD that is horrible VI logic. I don't think you're really this bad, I think you're scum. Its a compliment.
He's tunnelling on chesskid, not that chesskid's necessarily town, but come on, there's at least one more scum plus a possible sk out there! Then he starts posting to Stove, which is actually decent posting, but gets him ejected and in comes Fate.
So you admit he makes :goodposting: about other plays, I don't get it. Also if chesskid isn't necessarily town, then why don't you say "tunneling and possible bussing" or ANY form of scum linkage between your two reads? Fabricated case is fabricated. Also if you are so worried about the number of scum then why the hell is your vote on me? I'm not going to get lynched today or feel pressured, AND THERE ARE OTHER SCUMZ OUT DERE.
I see
-random voting as things come up, with frequent position changes - I don't know about how Fate usually replaces in, is the stream of consciousness catchup typical? That style always comes across as scummy and trying to distract town to me because it drags on and on and on and revives issues that were buried long ago. See in particular his view on Espeon - obvtown wagon must stop NAOW to voting.
How the FUCK is that style scummy? Seriously, think to yourself:
"I am scum replacing into the game. Would it be better for me to:
1. Read the whole game and then come up with a game plan after that so I can be flexible with my options
2. Read and comment as I go"
NOW THINK
"I am town replacing into a game. Would it be better for me to:
1. Comment as I go so that my reads are pure and geniune as they come, since I'm not worried about changing them later, what's important is that I get an accurate read of the game.
2. Read the whole game and then make a summary of what's happened and likely lose any good comments I had about early game interactions (which most players that don't have fresh eyes aren't thinking about ANYWAY so its better to bring up)"
SERIOUSLY. The way I catch up is the most goddamn pro-town style there is. THATS WHY I DO IT.
But I thought you wanted claims from Tasky, Chrono, and Espeonage?
See you're misrepping me, the only situation in which all 3 of them would claim is if we wagonned them, they claimed something provable, and then we wagonned the others etc. THIS WOULDNT HAPPEN because I'm sure we would just lynch the first onewith a shoddy claim (Chrono's recent claim in particular would've been hammered on sight).
But yeah, I've changed my stance on whether we should massclaim or not because of my reads. Sometimes LLD is so scummy I just want the claimed vanilla dead and no more claims to be outed. Sometimes my reads are so weak I have no idea who's scum and a massclaim would help a shit ton.
And sometimes, scum make the grave error of making a shitcase on me.
See above about beating a dead horse when you post stream of consciousness catchups. That's a style thing though, and not sufficient for a vote in and of itself - but it does make me more inclined to vote Fate.
So I didn't see that Parama had already asked for it. You yourself say "its a style thing" but hten say "Im more likely to vote Fate because of it" WHAT THE FUCK? HOW CAN YOU ADMIT SOMETHING IS A FUCKIN NULL TELL (lets ignore the fact that it should be a towntell) AND THEN GO ON TO SAY YOU WOULD VOTE FOR IT?
Hell we might even want to massclaim.
Yeah, this is important. Fate is waffling between wanting limited claims, mass claims, and minimizing claims - this is not the pulled-together (opinion-wise, anyway) town Fate I know.
Town Fate you know from where? One D1 from one game together? Specific links and examples are needed.
Meta isn't always applicable ESPECIALLY on replacements. The whole FLOW of this game would've been different if I were here from square 1, and thus my play would be different. For instance, when I replace in as scum I'm usually caught very quickly because it is just so de-motivating to come into a game where I have no control over anything.
Pretty sure Tasky's voted since this post. Also pretty sure Fate's ignored it.
Okay, let's talk about my reaction to the Tasky reaction vote. I couldn't tell whether Fate's "You chewed up the town read and spat it out" was serious or pressure and tbh, I don't really like people assuming the role of town leader. So I wanted to see whether Fate would reverse his read just as quickly if I stepped back in line. So I did what Fate wanted - I put my vote on one of the leading wagons. Fate then drops any suspicion of me. Thus, I concluded that his scumreads are as punitive as the enhanced pat-downs, and about as worthwhile. When I get out of line, there I am back under the gun. So Fate isn't scumhunting, he's trying to get town to follow him and that can't be pro-town.
You're right. I don't really have the energy (nor the inclination really) to rally and get a Tasky lynch going for him daring to defy me. I could though, but it was more of a bluff that I hoped would make his scummy ass claim.
When you do something pro-town, I drop my scumread of you, YEAH ITS AS SIMPLE AS THAT. If I get all the scum to act pro-town they will be forced into bussing their buddies and taking stances on things and PRO TOWN PLAY which will lead to a TOWN WIN. Is this logic so hard for you to swallow?
If I get town to follow me knowing I am town, how is that not pro-town? If everyone in this thread did as I wanted we would be guaranteed a town win because I am town. Obviously that won't happen because I'm not confirmed yet, but this is the point of view I have that directs my actions. Not "I'll lead town to their DOOM heheahhaha" If you have problems with WHERE I'm leading town or HOW then you need to make a case on THAT specifically, not "look this play is scummeh" with no examples.
Fate seems awfully afraid of a single vote. I thought one vote standing alone didn't do much to pressure anyone, but gee, it sure seems to be pressuring Fate.
Afraid? Here you go having it all wrong again. I'm FURIOUS that you are daring to go V/LA with your vote in a wasted fucking spot, because I am NOT getting lynched today. I am FURIOUS that you are acting anti-town, because-as I said-if EVERYONE acted pro-town then TOWN would win.
That said your case on me is so flimsy and terrible it just reeks of town with confirmation bias that is trying to etch out a scum read because they are a PR and feel like the person they are "scumhunting" is "trying to out their role."
AKA your case somehow got your town read back. Not that you're PRO-TOWN, just more townish.
Not sure what to make of this one. The vote isn't backed up, but that doesn't stick out in his ISO...
