Open 267- Lovers Mafia- Game Over

[Lateralus22]

/confirm

[Lateralus22]

That's 4, let's gogogogogogo

Vote: Hiraki

His avatar is from an evil organization thus must be affiliated with ze Mafia.

[Lateralus22]

Unvote;
Vote: chkflip

Oh hai, let's start talking about more in-game related things shall we? What's your general feels for lurkers, do they more often than not turn out to be scum in your experience? Will you be trying to encourage active posting or was that lurker bit just "RVS"?

[Lateralus22]

- More often than not, they turn out to be helpful for scum.
- I do encourage active posting; the more we have, the easier the lynches.
- The lurker bit, however, was pure RVS tomfoolery.

1. Interesting. Are you implying that he is in fact a poor townie that scum could use? If so, why not gun for scum?
2. I expect you to uphold this.
3. Hm, this is odd. The first response sounds somewhat serious in regards to your vote. Does this mean your first point was not actually related to it?

[Lateralus22]

Hiraki I can see you reading the thread ^_^

[Lateralus22]

- Your outlook is quite intriguing. RVS is RVS, though I am implying that, if he doesn't show, he could be of use to them in the sense that we couldn't achieve lynch. Won't the first vote take all four townies? (Please excuse my confusion, this is my first game of this type.)

What's intriguing? Moreover you still haven't answered my original question.

It is, in fact, the way I feel and is fully related. However, I also considered the fact that this is RVS and also the very beginning of the game. I hope that Erinyes shows up. And soon.

My dear, I fail to understand you. You said it was purely RVS tomfoolery but you factored in a serious element? lolwut... Can you state your position on your vote again and why he deserves your vote spot in regards to his alignment?

Have you played a completed game with Enrinye before?

[Lateralus22]

While chkflip does seem odd, Lateralus decided to find his first post as an odd post, as in scummy.

And? I care not for useless observations, tell me what you've learned form this.

Of course, if I was thinking correctly, chkflip shouldn't really care, which is a meh. He kind of does seem like he cares, but sometimes he doesn't.

Elaborate

I'd like to investigate this. It's not like I'd want to lynch someone off of the idea that they lied about someone lurking in a different game, but it'd be helpful, to say the least.

Why aren't you investigating this instead of silently saying that? Why do you think he's lying about this?

[Lateralus22]

chkflip and Hiraki, how do you feal about each other's alignments, and mine?

[Lateralus22]

Sounds cool to me.

Unvote:
Vote: Hiraki

His one and only post feels like coasting. Some observations here and there that he isn't taking a particularly strong stance on, moreover why the lack of vote? You've mentioned a wish to investigate something, but I hardly see you actually doing that.

[Lateralus22]

And by investigate, I mean from what you've shown the effort scum hunting spent is marginal despite making a serious post about the game.

(Last double post, really!)

[Lateralus22]

Nothing wrong being "jumpy" at all, I'll try to keep my serial posts down if that's bothering anyone.

@Hiraki

You're

noticing me "lurking"

is false. chkflip was the one who suggested that. I just pointed out you were reading the thread.

And if I did or he did? I made this post for a point.

What point? Question: do you think being jumpy is scummy?

[Lateralus22]

Jumpy can be scummy, and it could be just over-defensive townie.

Why is being jumpy scummy?

I was talking more about the vote, rather than his questions. Of course he'd then flip his vote to me, making me

Great, now do you actually want to start hunting for scum? My qualms with you is that it doesn't look like your scum hunting at all. A few fence sitting posts here and there, but that's it. What you've posted, you're showing a lack of desire to back up what you say. In your last post you're being very vague mentioning your own meta, what does this have anything to do with my alignment?

Hiraki, are you only uncomfortable voting because two people haven't confirmed? No one's in danger of being lynched at all.

[Lateralus22]

Because jumpy means you're worried about getting lynched. A townie shouldn't, in theory, be worried about being lynched. Their death leads to a greater gain of the town, if used correctly. Call it a common trend, but I'm pretty sure it's more than that.

Really, this is what you're saying in regards to me? When I was called "jumpy" it was because I was posting a lot and questioning, I wasn't even accused of being scum.

Second point. Mhmk, kinda valid, but still stands. Can you tell me more about your methods?

Btw. does it look like Empking or chkflip are scum hunting a lot?

chkflip looks town for now. He seemed like he had an honest intention with his vote and was able to explain it. Empking, eh not so much. He does need to post more, I'm going at you on this because it seems you're actually in the game.

I don't like flip-flopping my vote. In fact, I find a bit anti-town at the best. A Vanilla Townie's best power is the power of a vote. If a VT doesn't use it correctly, or just uses it unwillingly to apply pressure then something isn't right there.

>.> Really? There's nothing wrong with applying pressure and if you're voting for legit reasons... then there wouldn't be a problem either. Frankly, I think you'd be doing more harm if you choose to hold back your vote that much.

Now just to dispel any misinterpretations, I don't FoS Lateralus22 fully. However, I'm suspecting him. I don't like his post style and his attacks toward me. Not that he's attacking me, I'm fine with that. It's what he's attacking with.

If you want to vote me just say it. No need to be shy. My posting style is how I post every game. I find abrasiveness to be far more effective, and my attack on you? I'm literally asking you to get your opinions out and vote for who you think is scum. Instead, you've chosen to attack my play style and appear to be on the fence about multiple things.

Hey, very fast question. You mention your past play style, can you tell me in a large amount of detail why it's changed? Do you view aggression as scummy?

[Lateralus22]

- From the start, even with your RVS vote, you've been "lynchlynchlynch gogogogo." Is there a reason you want to see day phases rushed?

- You jump to me, then to Hiraki... for what? Are asking questions and voting inexclusive to you? Do not like. I wouldn't be worried about the phase being rushed at all.

1. Because I like playing the game? I was eager to get the game started and get out of RVS Asap, hopefully I've done that.

2. Yeah, relates back to to get out of RVS Asap. I'm rather satisfied with the results as I think I've nailed scum and have a town read atm. Kinda depressed though that no one else really wants to jump in and comment.

Would you rather I sit around and do nothing?

Not entirely understanding what you mean by "are asking questions inexclusive to you?"

Erinyes: When you post would you mind giving your thoughts on Later?

Would you do the same?

@Hiraki, your last response seems a bit better. It seems you choose to Townhunt, do you have any town reads you'd like to mention?

I haven't attacked your play style, I just don't like it. I got my opinions out, like you asked. This point just seems like you're not satisfied with my opinions, and you think I'm sure that I'm scum.

Saying that is an attack though. You're right, you did get out some of your opinions but the thing is I'm not even sure if you believe them when it doesn't look like your backing them up much.

@Shotty,

Do you think I'm scum?

[Lateralus22]

Your reasonings are fair enough, though they could still be scum-driven. No, I would not prefer you to sit and do nothing. Is there no comfortable medium for you?

-- Note that I'm not demanding you change your play style at all, just asking if you can see things from our perspectives.

Not really, sorry I can't be perfectly in ze middle. I do see this from your perspective and this one of the silliest things I've heard.

- Who are you talking about having a town read on? That part confused me.

You, I mentioned it back here.

- What I meant was: do you always vote and question simultaneously? You've actually answered that without realizing it.

Nay, though last game I focused on it a little bit. This game I figured it'll just bring out info faster and give me a physiological read too. I'll probably continue though since I like how it works atm.

- I don't get the point in asking someone for their town reads, that just sounds like a scummy elimination tactic to me.

"Shrugs" He mentioned that's how he scum hunts and I'm interested in what he has to say.

Town reads are tech, I used to feel similar to you but after seeing how effective it was in my last finished (Reduced scum to 3 players on day 2) I think I'll be trying it out more.

[Lateralus22]

Later: I think you're the scummiest player so far.

Can you elaborate?

@Lateral:
- What do you mean by "tech"? I don't think I've seen this term in mafia.

- What made your change your mindset from what I beleive to where you are now?

Tech as in awesome

Not understanding the second point, I think you what mean is what

I

believed? That's there in the post I linked to.

[Lateralus22]

I was referring to the point you'd made earlier about how you'd also thought that asking for town tells was silly. What made you change your mind?

That was explained in #42, I saw it be very effective. More accurate description.

[Lateralus22]

My bad, I thought you missed it.

[Lateralus22]

And your post 42 was the reason I even asked,

I wanted you to elaborate.

Thanks for trying to make me look like the doucebag, though, that helps my read on you

Expanding on this, felt my last post was unsatisfactory. What you're saying isn't true at all, or in the very least you sure as hell didn't explain it that way.

What made you change your mind?

This just looks like you're asking me straight up, if you wanted me to elaborate why didn't you say something the lines of

"Can you elaborate on this, or could you expand on this?"

Why did you get so upset initially, are you worried about how people perceive you? Also how does this help your read on me?

Also looking at the reasons for your vote, why did it take so long to come about? I was questioning and I changed my vote early on the first page. Why not vote me for those reasons then instead of later on?

Do you think questioning is scummy, if so why?

You jump to me,

then to Hiraki... for what?

Are asking questions and voting inexclusive to you? Do not like.

Did you miss my post where I said all my reasons for doing so?

Disliking your style of play is not an attack. Telling you that your play sucks, and is scummy, is an attack.

Fair enough, I thought it was one because you said that at the same time you said you were suspicious of me.

First off, he's looking at who's watching the thread, which isn't really a huge scum tell, but it's still one.

Why is this a scum tell?

Honestly. This is a horrible case on me.

This is basically why I think Lateralus is town.

He has townie reasons why I may be scum,

and he's been scumhunting. If he's scum, he'll be left alone today.

Why would

David

posting a case against you make you think

I'm

town? Didn't you say so initially you were suspicious of me because you didn't like my reasons for attacking you?

The last bit sounds weird. Is this implying I'm going to get attacked if I'm town since that wouldn't happen if I was scum?

David & Shotty

: What do you think of Hiraki's case towards shotty?

[Lateralus22]

Do you think that's scummy or is that just null to you?

[Lateralus22]

Quick check in,

Shotty's probably town. I don't see why he would be scummy because he called Hiraki's post IIoA unless he was pushing heavily on how that was the reason Hiraki's scum. I don't agree that everything there as IIoA but I can definitely see why someone would think that since what he pointed is is more along the lines of observations, but he misses how it's not IIoA because he does give it in his opinion.

My town on chkflip died when he started to ignore my posts. The switch to shotty doesn't feel genuine at all and I feel like he's just wagoning with Empking. I'd be more inclined to think it's Hiraki/chkflip since I don't think scum would do that so blindly.

Before I really liked how he was questioning me since it actually looked like he cared about my alignment, but I didn't notice how much of my posts he ignored. A lot of what he says is pretty vague too.

Your reasonings are fair enough, though they could still be scum-driven.

- I don't get the point in asking someone for their town reads, that just sounds like a scummy elimination tactic to me.

You're saying they could be scum driven but why don't you explain why? After I told you why I liked town reads why didn't you follow up with an actual response talking about them? (#50)

-- Note that, yes, I asked you about a town read; however, it's only because you mentioned it.

If you think town reads are scummy why would you ask me this, how does me bringing it up make it ok?

Why would David posting a case against you make you think I'm town? Didn't you say so initially you were suspicious of me because you didn't like my reasons for attacking you?

I was unsure if you were totally town before the post I had made with FoSing you fully. Upon more investigation, I found that your "jumpiness" was more Town-Sided then Scum-Sided. David's case is just blarg overall, and makes me meh.

Way to side step away from I was saying. How does me being jumpy have anything to do with my reasons? And what "investigation" did you undertake or was just the flick of your mind?

How did the reasons you not like suddenly became townie reasons to attack you?

Can you tell me in great detail what you think of chkflip so far and who you think is scum if shotty turns up town? How do you feel about Empking?

I don't want to make a huge post/response to Shotty. From my skim, his counter-argument looked bad, so y'know.

Oh great, you get to bash his credibility without responding to his post. Nice.

Out of the two L-1 wagons, if by nothing else than the way he's responding and trying so hard to be helpful

How was shotty's posts more "helpful"? If anything Hiraki was the more informative of two and shotty didn't even give his big read until later on.

- Why would scum vote their partner in Lover's Mafia for distancing? They're dead if their partner is lynched. It might be more pertinent to look at who isn't voting who when it comes to that. That's my take, at least. Thoughts?

Oddly enough this seems to contradict your earlier thoughts about me and shotty, thoughts? Fun fact though, you never even looked at my Hiraki case. I take it you're his partner?

I find it quite likely the scum-team is maybe neither of these wagons.

Why?

Hiraki's scum, I feel it in me bones.

[Lateralus22]

#62 (Hiraki):

I was unsure if you were totally town before the post I had made with

FoSing you fully.

I can't believe I missed this. This shows an inconsistency in his thought pattern because he never FoS'ed me fully and was on the fence about this for most of the time, he even said it was the opposite of this.

Or am I wrong and you're saying this is a typo?

[Lateralus22]

Your questions, on the other hand, are legitimate.

That's not the point. You disliked my reasons and they made you suspicious of me. David asking ones is completely independent of that and doesn't change my questions/whatever.

If they were legitimate how did they make you suspicious/not like what I was attacking you with? When you specifically said you didn't mind the act of attacking you?

The reasons that DP attacked me with were not the reasons that you attacked me with.

I can see why certain you ones you don't like, but some of his reasons were similar to mine.

It was a typo. However, the typo isn't what you're supposed to be focusing on. I believe you understand what I meant, the specifics weren't as important to me, as it seems.

That "Typo" changes the whole entire meaning of what you're saying and the previous thought process behind it. How were specifics not important when earlier you were so cautious as to say you didn't give me a full FoS? What exactly would be the "right" way to say what you were thinking?

When did you start getting bad vibes from chkflip, and which reasons do you specifically have that made you wary of him? Would he be your second lynch pick?

chkflip what do you think of Hiraki's suspicions of you?

Hiraki:

If you think Shotty is scum, who do you think is his scum buddy?

Note:

Eh Shotty, it's not OMGUS because he voted you first. Chainsaw maybe, but not OMGUS. What do you think of chkflip?

[Lateralus22]

- It helps my read because it looks as if you're trying to spin it any way you possibly can.

I never tried to make you look like anything it all, and "spinning" you into a jerk like image is just ridiculous since that wouldn't even make anyone scum. Was I wrong to correct you and do you understand why I thought what I did?

- I thought, and still think, it's pretty obvious why it could be scum-driven. I don't spoonfeed.

It isn't obvious, that's why I asked you. By the current logic you presented everything is scum driven >.>

- Why should I elaborate on town-reads? You feel your way and I feel mine. Done.

What town reads? Can you start quoting specific things because I'm struggling to wonder what half the thing you're talking about are.

- What contradiction? You've still yet to vote shotty, who could still very well be your partner. I don't get what you're getting at with that.

He voted for me.

Later on, however, and now you've got yourself a case I can agree with.

And which parts of the case do you agree with?

It didn't take long for me to gather my opinion that you're scum, but basing it off a jump from an RVS vote would have been silly of me.

Can you list why you think I'm scum? So far I got

-Votes you then Hiraki
-Asks questions
-Apparently makes you look like a douche

First one you're saying now is silly, second isn't scummy, third isn't even true. Am I wrong or have misunderstood your case?

Notes:

Still prefer Hiraki lynch, personally I don't feel we should wait around 2 weeks unless we

have

to. (Using time for the sake of using it is stupid, if someone wants to keep the conversation going bring something up themselves.)

Shotty looks like Vi-Town, mainly gut.

Shotty isn't saying IIoA is scummy, stop saying he is. Hiraki is starting to look better but mehhhh gonna stick with my case and gut. chkflip is a secondary option if anyone is interested. Empking is a maybe, but I don't really think so because of rise of the shotty wagon.

Edit that's not really an edit but may conflict a bit with above.

- Questioning is not scummy by any means. I was merely questioning your use of votes/questions in relation to one another.

Ah missed this, then your second point is mute >.> Seriously, what's wrong with questioning to bring forth info/cause pressure?

-----

David what made you start thinking shotty was town?

Now just to dispel any misinterpretations, I don't FoS Lateralus22 fully. However, I'm suspecting him. I don't like his post style and his attacks toward me.

Not that he's attacking me, I'm fine with that. It's what he's attacking with.

1)

No, I disliked your mode of questioning.

DP on the other hand just has horrible attacks.

I iz confused.

[Lateralus22]

Shotty first-post distances himself from Later by voting.

Why is this scummy of shotty but not Empking? I'd hardly consider that mere distancing when I figured there was a real chance of me being lynched.

Later COMPLETELY IGNORES shotty.

False. I asked him if he thought I was scum.

Shotty hops off the wagon once it quietens down and hops on the easy-Hiraki wagon.

And? He thought Hiraki was scum, why shouldn't he vote him then?

Later hasn't hopped on the shotty wagon (Something I feel he would have done in his position)

Yeah I'd totally hammer him even though I'm much sure of Hiraki, the guy I've been pushing the whole game to be scum.

Later is defending shotty now and trying to prevent his lynch. At this point in the day scum have to try save their scum buddy earlier on you can vote/distance to some extent, but with shotty's lynch looking likely, it's in Later's interets to push a Hiraki wagon.

Because I think he's town. Why wouldn't I defend someone I think is town? The only way he'd be scum if if he's scum with you and Hiraki is town. I doubt both of those.

HOWEVER, Later is a better lynch than shotty. I think his play throughout the game has been just as scummy and in some situations more scummy than shotty's.

How have I been scummy?

[Lateralus22]

Instead, he ignores it, almost knowing his wagon will fall apart in time, and just not wanting to return fire at his scum partner.

That's stupid, there's no way I could have known another wagon would risen when everyone was only focusing on me and I was attacking Hiraki. Your "case" is broken down into "He didn't think shotty was scum thefor scum!". Why wouldn't I believe shotty to have a chance being town?

[Lateralus22]

Hiraki is really good at confusing me.

[Lateralus22]

Hiraki what do you think of David's case?

Preview Edit: David should respond to my posts.

[Lateralus22]

I knew beforehand what the "shortcomings" of my case on you were and what you would respond with. It doesn't change the fact that I still believe you to be scum. But I'm glad you responsed as that has helped my read on you.

No, your case is shit. Explain why I can't think Shotty is town and how I've been scummy. Get your fucking paranioa out because that's all your case is.

[Lateralus22]

If you lynch me today do you PROMISE to lynch either Hiraki or chkflip tomorrow?

[Lateralus22]

That's slightly better, now answer my goddamn questions.

[Lateralus22]

It's scummy of shotty but not of empking because of the way shotty came and voted you to "calm down" after someone else had just done that. He mimic'd empking and could be considered him trying to "fit in with town".

Cuz making a useless vote is a perfect way to emulate town like behavior amright? It makes perfect sense for shotty to want me to calm down on his own because he's the type of player who plays for fun or his own enjoyment.

Think of it like this, Is shotty,

A) Uber pro town player who plays effective town games and NEVER screws around
B) VI as both alignments, spends his time fucking around most of the time

I don't doubt that he thinks Hiraki scummy. But my entire case on Hiraki was there already before I came and made it. It was only after your wagon fizzled and others had made the case for you being scum he jumped on the wagon. Why not see a scummy-ish case on Hiraki and vote him instead of putting a useless vote on your, or switch his vote sooner? It seemed he switched his vote at a time when it would go unnoticed as something 'scummy'.

Because he's a VI for christs sake. Do you honestly believe shotty's putting his best effort to lynch scum this game, or any game?

You've been scummy by trying too hard and the tone of some of your posts seeming "forced" and not genuinely town to me at times.

Trying too hard? Sorry, but I like to play the game. I'm generally the driving force of my reads and when I'm sure, I push it like there's no tomorrow. Mini 1021 & Newbie 1020 are great examples of this.

As for not sounding "genuine/forced" I can't see this as all. I play loud & proud and my play is for the most part always aggressive and transparent.

Note:

Hiraki is right about Shotty's def's being slightly different but meh. When one scum dies it's a town win, there are no nights.

Did you visit Chkflip's house lately for some of that stuff he was smoking?

Hiraki's still confusing me >.<
Would you be down with a chkflip lynch?

btw, would be nice if Hiraki could give me a thorough read on chk and David.

Why is David's flip flopping suspicious? Unless he's scum with either of you I thought it sounded pretty townie.

[Lateralus22]

Concering trusting town with reads: "Shrugs" why not? When you're town you would do the same no?

Concerning getting a better read on chk/David: You're reading up on them this phase. I'd prefer sometime soon.

Why is chk a town read of yours?

[Lateralus22]

Bleh, got a little bit of time so I'm rereading. I'm town but meh, I think we lost anyway so I''ll keep it short.

[Lateralus22]

Later's lack of vote-movement is VERY curious. I don't think it's scummy but he hasn't moved his vote since day 2 when he put it there. I feel scum would have been more opportunistic with their vote and tried to use it to push mislynches although it could have also been used to keep attention of him.

CHK CHK CHK CHK CHK

Every one of his votes has been opportunistic, He put me at L-1 for shitty reasons and has announced repeatedly he has suspicions but never gives solid/specific/valid reasons. I mentioned this in one of my posts where I list why he thinks I'm scum.

Shotty+Later: Hello Scum. The only possible shotty scum-combo I see. But a very likely combo. Shotty's initial vote was on Later, but with no great reason to it. As stated before, Later then completely IGNORES shotty. Later's vote has NOT MOVED from Hiraki (a early page 2 vote). Shotty has played not to his town-meta. There's a lot here that I can support.

All your reasoning is wrong/not scummy.

I haven't ignored him, I proved that in my first response to your vote last phase
Not moving my vote is perfectly fine because I believed that to be the strongest case
Shotty has been playing slightly to his town meta (Mini 1007) but meta's shit anyway (Newbie 1000 look for my Iso where I make an extensive meta case)

EDIT PREVIEW:

Holy fuck I did not expect that. I seriously need to reread. I swear to god if chk is scum I'll cry myself to sleep.

[Lateralus22]

Disregard the first part of my last post, I would have thought if he was scum he'd prepare a quick hammer and lynch me.

[Lateralus22]

Actually, screw it. Don't want to read up now, will be back Saturday when I truly can give a decent amount of time to the game.

[Lateralus22]

Lol. Sorry for being stupid guys.

Notable things,

I truly felt Hiraki's early posts to be incredibly scummy due to the fency nature, bleh. His later play actually started to look really pro town except for a few things so i decided not to change my mind.

Had Day 1 gone longer I would have considered a chk lynch, Day 2 I definetely would have pushed it hard if I hadn't been voted right off an he made that case against DP (seriously, why????).

Shouldn't have missed the contradiction in his first post and decided right off it was pro town, bleh, really should have hammered hard on his stupid voting reasons instead of Hiraki's passive like behavior.

Kinda glad though I was able to identify 2 townies, DP's paranioa was hell of annoying (And will lose probably every game you decided to act that way, that's liking WIFOM'ing yourself in the family jewels) but really townie because of the honesty.

Shouldn't have cleared empking due to flimsy reasons and pressed harder on stupid votes instead of early passive behavior >.> bleh

Oh btw, don't get trigger happy the moment lylo starts. seriously wtf. I was on V/LA too for christs sake and I think we would have had a better chance had we gotten to discuss.

My deepest apologies Hiraki, really.

Mod: Nice Job on the modding, my only qualms would be that I never noticed a deadline date anyway, (don't remember if it's in the rules or not), other than that it was pretty efficent for the most part.

I seriously gots to reevaluate more on more important things. Btw I have no idea how anyone thought I was scummy >.> I thought I was Obv town the whole game.

[Lateralus22]

Note: chk, this has nothing to do with your playstyle. Posting legit content, not doing so isn't a play style unless your a vi.

I was kinda just surprised to see actual effort when you could have just won without typing up. Quoting it like that kinda takes away the context, like a lot.

I keep thinking to myself how glad I was to have narrowed scum down to ch/emp/hir thinking we'd win no matter what unless I was wrong. Bleh. Really should have switched around Hir when I started having doubts instead of going at it more.

[Lateralus22]

on what?

[Lateralus22]

oh, you weren't iffy at all.

[Lateralus22]

Eh you slipped by me really well cuz I was waaaay to focused on Hiraki. Votes on me/shotty were bad/ blatant opportunistic but I didn't notice it initially since I was waaaay to quick to judge. The thing was, you put them both at L-1 with little word and weren't pro active. I actually think I would have noticed it if this was a larger game/didn't act so sure of my very early reads. But hey you got by with this.

Obviously though being scum it's great if you can do this without being caught, but better players will call you out on this. Your case on DP was legit and generally things like that are going to give people a better people a better impression of you.

[Lateralus22]

I would have put emp+chk as my number 1 scum team if it wasn't for what seemed like "opportunistic" voting by shotty, and "voting to stay under the radar" by Later.

I don't think you get it, you vote for the person you believe to be the strongest to be scum that'll get lynched. There's no unwritten rule saying you have to move your vote "X" amount of times. I don't understand how I was under the radar when I pushed my vote really really hard. The thing about shotty is that it pointless to use standish tells because they just don't apply to players like him.

@Mit

Bleh, personally I feel like I did ok with my reads since I never suspected DP or Shotty the whole game. I realize I got attention to myelf early on, I over estimated how town would percieve my attitude since generally half the time people would consider me obv town with that reckless personality. I don't feel as if any of my accusations early on were bad though, just needed some adjustments.