Fringe Mafia (Game Over, role PMs posted)

[smargaret]

I agree with Hop.

Empking, whether you're withholding information from scum or not, you're also withholding it from town. That said, I'd rather hear your thoughts on bv than on ghost, since he's gone inactive and requested replacement and we'll get more information/reactions from looking at him. Or you could just do us all a favor and look at all three.

Sadly, I also agree that SV could be faking the PR. There's no way the mod would make a pr that is incapable of giving any information AT ALL, and it would be all too easy for scum to coast to the finish under such a PR. But that is modWIFOM, so I would rather see SV investigated than lynched.

[esuriospiritus]

Primate replaces GhostWriter, effective immediately. Thanks, Primate!

[PogoStick]

weird, I play mafia on another site with a guy name primate, but i doubt this is the same one.

regardless, welcome

[Doombunny9]

I'm not going to post cases on SV and GW because I want people to vote Hop rather than SV and GW.

This is TERRIBLE reasoning. This just shows a lack of ANY help to the town ad potential tunneling and as Smar and HOMJ said, its witholding info from town. This post just made me happy with my vote all over again. As town you should have no reason to keep this info from town. Now seriously now, lets post a case on Ghost/Primate and SV.

1. I am scumhunting and I am reading players.

I think you meant to say "player" seeing as how the only person you can really talk about is HOMJ.

2. I'm withholding info from the scum.

...and from town...

Town can look at the data just like I've done.

If town is psychic (And I assume we aren't) your case is valid. Otherwise, you're going to have to tell us what you think of players instead of keeping it a secret.

[Empking]

As town, there is

one

reason to post a case. In order order to get a player lynched. That's it. And unless Primate or TM disagree with me in regards to that then I'm going to take that to my grave.

(Town doesn't need to be psychic, I know at this point in time I don't have a case on GW I'd have to look at his posts again to make a proper case.)

Smarge: I think bv is clearly town as his actions with regards to Hop certainly look like town actions (it doesn't strike me as bussing nor does it seem careful as we'd expect a scum vote on a townie would be.)

Hop: I'm willing to reevaluate you when new information comes to light.

Everybody: Not that the player who
1. Speaks generally about me saying Hop is misinteprating my posts too much but when given examples agrees that Hop is misinterpreting my posts. Classic scum trying to defend their buddy.
2. Chainsaw defends Hop.
3. Swaps his and Hop's vote (they keep the number of votes the same but allows Hop to move his vote and tries to reduce the connection of them voting me at the same time for a while) on me and just generally acts like Hop's buddy.

Is the one trying to force me into building a case on another player.

[smargaret]

Empking, how is that philosophy not tunneling? There is at least one other scum out there.

[smargaret]

since I don't remember whether I officially declared it or not,

v/la until Sunday

[Empking]

Empking, how is that philosophy not tunneling? There is at least one other scum out there.

I've got

four

scum reads on players. That's why I'm not tunelling. I'm just not going to expend my energies to prevent Hop from getting lynched when he's clearly scum.

[PogoStick]

@emp - you told smarge that you think BV's actions are pro town, do you think somebody replacing into the game should focus on the person with the largest bandwagon or should comment on more than one player?

[Empking]

@emp - you told smarge that you think BV's actions are pro town, do you think somebody replacing into the game should focus on the person with the largest bandwagon or should comment on more than one player?

Preferably the second.

[PogoStick]

ad since he really did not do that, what else has he done that gives you a pro-town read?

[Empking]

His reaction towards you doesn't look like bussing or like scum voting a townie. Therefore if he's neither bussing nor trying for a mislynch he must be town.

[PogoStick]

His reaction towards you doesn't look like bussing or like scum voting a townie.

Therefore if he's neither bussing nor trying for a mislynch he must be town.

this part strikes me as odd

ok I buy he doesn't look like scum voting for a townie - so it could be townie voting for a townie

but how do you jump to the conclusion that he is "trying for a mislynch"? the only way to know it would be a mislynch is if somebody KNEW I was town.

you say it doesn't look like he knows I am town so wouldn't you have worded that last part differently?

[Empking]

His reaction towards you doesn't look like bussing or like scum voting a townie.

Therefore if he's neither bussing nor trying for a mislynch he must be town.

this part strikes me as odd

ok I buy he doesn't look like scum voting for a townie - so it could be townie voting for a townie

but how do you jump to the conclusion that he is "trying for a mislynch"? the only way to know it would be a mislynch is if somebody KNEW I was town.

you say it doesn't look like he knows I am town so wouldn't you have worded that last part differently?

If he was scum then he would think you're town so if you were town and he was scum then he'd have to be trying for a mislynch. Since he isn't then unless he's bussing (which we've already said is unlikely) he must be town.

[PogoStick]

but how can you say he is trying for a mislynch when you are convinced I am scum? the only way you can say that is if you know I am not scum.

[Empking]

but how can you say he is trying for a mislynch when you are convinced I am scum? the only way you can say that is if you know I am not scum.

He isn't trying for a mislynch! He's town!

[PogoStick]

but how can you say he is trying for a mislynch when you are convinced I am scum? the only way you can say that is if you know I am not scum.

He isn't trying for a mislynch! He's town!

1. they way you worded it, made it see like you knew I was town.

2. I am not trying to twist your words so I will just ask. Did you just declare BV is town?

[Empking]

but how can you say he is trying for a mislynch when you are convinced I am scum? the only way you can say that is if you know I am not scum.

He isn't trying for a mislynch! He's town!

1. they way you worded it, made it see like you knew I was town.

2. I am not trying to twist your words so I will just ask. Did you just declare BV is town?

I am 90%+ sure that bv is town.

[PogoStick]

fair enough

ok Happy thanksgiving, going to "try" not to log on the rest of the day.

[Primate]

I probably won't have too much time to really get up on the reading until the weekend, so I'll just start reading now and do more when I can. Feel free to ask me stuff before that and I'll respond, but don't expect me to know what I am talking about.

Not that I know what I'm talking about anyway.

[Primate]

weird, I play mafia on another site with a guy name primate, but i doubt this is the same one.

regardless, welcome

I played mafia on a bunch of sites under various names, some of which are primate. Haven't played on sites that aren't this one or MTGS in about 3 years though.

[Empking]

Mod: Would you mind updating the first post with Nocmen's flip

[TonyMontana]

As town, there is

one

reason to post a case. In order order to get a player lynched. That's it. And unless Primate or TM disagree with me in regards to that then I'm going to take that to my grave.

Well, let me stop you right there.

There is one reason to post a case if you are scum.

meanwhile, us townspeople would like to collectively figure out who scum is. So if you have valid points on the scumminess of people, I'd like to hear them.

And taking them to the grave is about the scummiest thing you have said so far.

I actually agreed with you wanting to stop the back and forth between you and Hop, only because it was a bitch to wade through, and not very substantial. "you're twisting my words" "no YOU are twisting my words"

"SHUT UP SHUT UP SHUT UP" is actually the best contribution SV has offered us. Speaking of the Devil, I don't believe SV.

Anyways, back to emp; calling bv310's action obviously town is alittle ridiculous. You reason it with the fact that you think Hop is scum, and the fact that it wasn't a careful vote. In other words: WIFOM, in other words: it actually does look scummy.


Let me summarize:

SV:

worthless, possibly lying about his restriction.

Hop:

Obnoxious, but has demonstrated that it's his playstyle. Lynching Hop would be pro-game, but not entirely convinced it would be pro-town.
Made some notes, when reading through:
Makes ridiculous logic for various things not being scummy "i've seen town do it" Oh yeah, well i have seen more scum doing it, so where does that leave us?.
Buddies up with DoomBunny, then backs away. (I'll get to that)
Crusades on insulting players, irony completely lost on him.
When smarg comes at him with a oneliner, he starts talking about scum being happy that he is a guaranteed mislynch. Wow, dramaqueen much? One person suggest you be taken out, and suddenly you have been reserved a spot in lunchbox?
Seems to make arguments as a hobby, even tho the substance of the arguments are miniscule. Seems to have positive consequences, tho, which leads me to..

Emp:

I can't say that he comes out of the catfight with Hop looking good. His arguments gets desperatly weak under pressure. The first thing to pop out for me during my read-through was that he tried to pass off voting as scumhunting.
When doom starting asking questions, he got defensive and almost resorted to ad hominem. If nothing else, it's was an absurd call to emotion.
To get back to Hop, in post 367 Emp did school Hop when he mischaracterized Emp's reasons for voting Emp. That been said, reasons were still not convincing, but this certainly goes as a minus point for Hop. Bad Hop. Baad.

Let me just comment on

Doombunny

Seems like the calm, rational version of Hop.
DB did, as mentioned, do a good job of pointing out Emp's weak spots.
As mentioned, I think Hop for some reason, seemed shocked that emp would suggest DB was a bad player. Hop then tried to pass it off as him being shocked that emp insulted someone. Which is nonsense. Don't even bother trying to convince me.
It is then of course conspicuous that DB seems to play on Hop's team in the nonsense battle, that was going on between emp and hop, but it's prolly just a matter of DB having actual suspicions against Emp, and it's not productive to kick both ways.



Ugh. Allright, ive written too much, can't be bothered proofreading.

Vote: Empking

I have sympathy for you, but I simply thought you came out looking less town.

[Empking]

TM: What weak arguments?
Look at this in a wider issue. DB and Hop are clearly buddies. Who are my buddies?

You reason it with the fact that you think Hop is scum, and the fact that it wasn't a careful vote. In other words: WIFOM, in other words: it actually does look scummy.

1. I took two possible scenarios. 1 . Hop is scum 2. Hop is town his actions looked town either way.
2. Don't just dismiss an argument as WIFOM. Scum make careful votes. bv didn't therefore bv is town. Where's the WIFOM.

[Empking]

Oh yeah. TM if you doubt that bv and Hop are buddies look at this post taking into account DB's later actions and play.

Gusy, ya'll realize that setup speculation is only really scummy if it distracts the town from scumhunting or people begin to take it like its fact rite?

Also, I want to hear from smar (Soras replacement) about the game.

@Ghost- Is there anything else you want to say? Being gone for a while and then just coming in for a brief talk about speculation isn't cutting it.

@HOMJ- Is this the only reason you have for voting Zang? This is pretty weak XD

HOMJ is my top suspect right now for reasons detailed yesterday. I don't want to put a vote down on him though until I hear more from bv, smar, and Ghost.

(The bottom bit is more important than the top bit.)