Objection Redux - It's all over bar the shouting!

[Vi]

I want Vi to come in.

I'm here. Seven hours early because nobody else is awake right now so I can steal a computer. I know there are a lot of words ITT but how did everyone miss my signature or where I said

I would be gone for four days

.

I want Vi to have words.

My words are--I haven't had time to sit through the onslaught of hate and propaganda and weigh whether I like the VasudeVa wagon. It wasn't my top pick when I left, and my initial skimread is that VV is getting bullied around (fairly easy to do tbh~).

I want Vi to hammer.

Yeah, no. I'll take the cut in style points - VuVuko has since claimed anyway - and let it be until I have a chance to read this properly.

Until then, why not tell me in no uncertain terms why you're confirmed Town, Fate. I've run it over and I can see how it would be more likely, but in no way

confirmed

.

Skimread makes me twitch when I read Gammagooey's posts.

[VasudeVa]

Thoughts on what? Your claim? Same as socios:

Scums have fake claims, so I'll probably toss all the names into a random number generator, make the scum the same evll characters and give them 3 random fake claims.

Thoughts on your scum picks? It quite honestly sounds like desperate finger pointing because you have no idea who you can plausibly accuse, so you want to accuse those on your wagon since thats ~*~easy~*~.

OH! PZs stunning lack of contribution makes me frown, if that helps. AGM's refusal to answer any question I asked him also makes me frown. So does vezok's refusal.

Any other thoughts you want?

These are not what I wanted, but that's me being vague with the first question so...yeah.

When people hop on over a wagon with a shitty case, why

shouldn't

I point fingers at their direction? It doesn't matter if I actually AM the wagon. Why would that even matter anyway? BTW, I HATE that 'OHhh, you're desperate scum pointing fingers everywhere!'. In fact as the wagonee, you people should probably listen more since you people are the ones trying to read my alignment.

'SCUM POINTING FINGERZ EVERYWHERE' is fucking lazy. I have explained my cases on Spy(scum slippish with scum behavior theory.), AGM(meta-case on a dude voting me when he has seen me lynched D1 twice and singlehandedly lose 2 of his games) and Fate(meta-ish on him for not even thinking about the circumstances of my claim.) to the best of my ability and no one is fucking paying attention. In fact, it is of the best interest for scum to just hop on over here without reading(hence the AGM case.).

No one(bar Gamma, and Spy because I'm badgering him but it's a conflict of interest, so whut.) is even paying attention. Whoever is Town on my wagon

should

be ashamed of themselves.

True, being the main character doesn't actually absolve me from anything since our own mod doesn't know anything about the flavor. BUT thoughts on my VT claim? Do you think it's likely that I'm scum claiming VT(on D1?) or what? What do you think about VT claims D1 on a closed setup?

[VasudeVa]

It wasn't my top pick when I left, and my initial skimread is that VV is getting bullied around (fairly easy to do tbh~).

>.>. ugh, memories........OF VICTORY!

o.O
*hides*

Until then, why not tell me in no uncertain terms why you're confirmed Town, Fate. I've run it over and I can see how it would be more likely, but in no way

confirmed

.

Skimread makes me twitch when I read Gammagooey's posts.

Fate isn't Town here though~ DO NOT BE FOOLED.

[Vi]

It wasn't my top pick when I left, and my initial skimread is that VV is getting bullied around (fairly easy to do tbh~).

>.>. ugh, memories........OF VICTORY!

o.O
*hides*

Don't provoke someone who is waiting to decide whether to hammer you.

[Jahudo]

VV as VT does provide one possible explanation his early play that was more aggressive and reckless. Specifically his call that Fate is vig fodder, which always sounds like a taboo topic to talk about. I think if he was a PR he would have played more even-handed before he had any suspicion on him.

@VV: How would Fate-scum know if you are town-vanilla over town-pr? I don't know how that could even be a slip unless he was a Mafia Day Role Cop.

------------

I unvoted Vi cause RVS was over. i saw a lot of people voting other persons and I thought that wagon fell apart. I as wrong.

True there were some people that voted VV in that time frame but that did not affect the Vi wagon. There was 1 vote change (that didn't affect Vi) between your unvote and a vote count listing Vi as the still-top wagon with 5 votes. If you weren't paying enough attention on page 2 to notice that, I now have trouble believing you are legitimately following the VV case. You have not given anything new to the wagon on your own. If VV is town, your vote is opportunistic. If VV is scum, you look like the obvious busser.

So I'd still rather lynch vezok today.

[UncertainKitten]

@VV: All your cases are shit besides the one on AGM, which I agree with. They aren't cases, they're you stamping your feet and insisting you are right.

There's nothing THERE.

And if you weren't so INSISTENT on telling us because you claimed VT you're obv town, MAYBE I'd have taken it into consideration. But clearly you know the logic so it just becomes so much WIFOM.

[VasudeVa]

@VV: How would Fate-scum know if you are town-vanilla over town-pr? I don't know how that could even be a slip unless he was a Mafia Day Role Cop.

If Fate was Town... Fate caught to my VT hint...and thought that 'Oh hey, VVscum would sooo claim VT today!'. That doesn't make sense. No reason for scum to ever claim VT Day 1 in a closed setup. Scum run up D1 are living on borrowed time, regardless of their claims. Besides, it's easy to fake 'PR' results anyway, maybe get a tracker to claim on D2 on someone who'll die eventually.

Also, meta-wise. Fate likes to mull over claims, even VT claims. Here he's HAMMAHAMMAHAMMA as if his original case was good(it wasn't.). At this point, I think he's just capitalizing on our shared meta given how ridiculously bad his case is and is bullying me to my lynch. And then he'll be like "VV WAS SO SCUM YESTERDAY OMG. HE'S ALWAYS SCUMMY I HAVE META" post-Vas-Townflip.

And if you weren't so INSISTENT on telling us because you claimed VT you're obv town, MAYBE I'd have taken it into consideration. But clearly you know the logic so it just becomes so much WIFOM.

It doesn't even matter that I'm insisting it. -_-. Town can insist, or scum can insist(See: Fate.).

What should matter is the logic. If you find my logic faulty, Point it out. Do you disagree with my logic behind my VT claim and closed setup VT claims D1?

[Jahudo]

Fate doesn't always mull over claims as town. I know that much from this game I modded. Maybe he's not always as confident as he appears? I haven't found his attitude unusual yet, so this is null for me.

AGM is probably still V/LA, no? He did mention traveling and stuff. He hasn't looked pro-town yet, but it is way too easy to call him a "suspect" right now. He only posted on 1 day, so all we have of him is Stream of consciousness. No reflection or analyzing.

[UncertainKitten]

The thing about the "Why would a scum claim VT Day 1" is it only works if the person in question doesn't KNOW about it. Then suddenly claiming VT becomes a viable option to avoid lynch, which is, number for number, BETTER than outting a power role. Even if it's borrowed time, the more time you spend not getting lynched is the more time spent getting townies lynched.

Since you've made SUCH a huge issue of it, it's shit now. Good going Vasu scum.

[Faraday]

Vote count 1.7

Vi (1) -

Papa Zito

VasudeVa (7)

Sociopath, Fate, AlmasterGM, Vezokipiraka, UncertainKitten, Ellibereth, SpyreX

Fate (1)

Vi

Rhinox (2

GammaGooey, Magnus_orion

Vezokpiraka (2)

Jahudo, Rhinox

AlmasterGM (1)

VasudeVa

Not voting: (0)

No one

With 14 alive it takes 8 to lynch.

Deadline is December 7th at 1pm GMT
Any mistakes in the VC point 'em out and all that.

Alm's the only one who's not posted (Rhinox is V/la till 30th) recently but it was Yaksgiving so etc.

[VasudeVa]

@Jah: Fair enough. I still don't like how dumb his case is seeing as it's basically "Vas: I say X, Y, Z. ;Fate: X IS A SCUMTELL, Y IS SUPER SCUMMY, AND Z IS THE SCUMMIEST. OMG LYNCH."

@UK: Well, If I don't point it out, as Town, should I hope for someone else to point it out? Based of how everyone and their moms are ignoring what I say anyway(see: Elli, You, AGM, Socio etc.), I didn't want to count on it. So I'll gladly point it out.

I don't even get the logic afterwards. Soo, someone claiming VT while knowing a theory about 'closed setup D1 VT claims' is scum? That's like saying people who know archery automatically kill people with their bows.

I address your concerns that I

might

be a scum PR. But that's just you doing guesswork and is irrelevant to any reads on my alignment.

Plus, you've seen scum-me TWICE now. How do you compare me here with me-scum in Descent into Chaos and Castlevania Mafia?

[UncertainKitten]

I never said a VT claiming VT knowing about the theory is scum. I'm saying that you claiming VT does not reverse the scum read I have on you. And that in your case claiming VT is WIFOM, NOT a factor that would mitigate a scum read. But thanks for the hay, I was thinking of doing a pony girl scene later ^-^.

Also, metas change. I try not to rely on them, though I'm sure I've slipped on that. Generally if you can't suss out intent on a player's own behavior in a specific game, you're doing it wrong.

[Papa Zito]

So are all the people waiting around for Vi to post satisfied now?

[UncertainKitten]

Yeah, no. I'll take the cut in style points - VuVuko has since claimed anyway - and let it be until I have a chance to read this properly.

We should probably wait for this.

[Papa Zito]

Alrighty.

In the meantime I still want a list, Elli.


P.S. I don't believe the claim, for what that's worth.

[Fate]

If you're all for taking softclaims into consideration Jahundo, you should

probably

lay off vezok for reasons that are more than apparent.

[Fate]

Alrighty.

In the meantime I still want a list, Elli.


P.S. I don't believe the claim, for what that's worth.

There are, in no uncertain terms, going to be any town lists made today.

I thought we made that clear.

[Fate]

n no uncertain terms why you're confirmed Town, Fate. I've run it over and I can see how it would be more likely, but in no way

confirmed

.

If you really thought about it, you'd see why I was confirmed. But like I SAID, don't. Ignore it, pretend it never happened, let's play this like a mod-error free sexy normal game.

I don't want a bigger target on my back then I already have, so I want it left at that.

Does anyone notice VV's LACK of this part of a case on me? His case is taking a recently said thing, twisting it and throwing in a dash of meta for a bullshit pie.

If I were making a case on me, I'd DEFINITELY start with the "LOOK HOW BAD FATE WANTS TO BE CONFIRMED! HES GAMBITING LIKE LAST TIME DONT TRUST HIS LIES!" line, as I left that door WIDE OPEN so that mislynch cases could be made on me.

And here we are, with the only one thinking I'm "Scum" not capitalizing on it.

OH DID I FUCKIN MENTION HOW RHINOX HAS STILL NEVER BEEN PROPERLY EXPLAINED AS TO WHY HE WAS DROPPED FROM VV'S SCUMREADS?

OH HAVE I NOT POINTED OUT THAT VV ISN'T PLAYING LIKE A VT WHO IS ABOUT TO DIE FOR THE GOOD OF TOWN, AND ISNT GIVING HIS COMPLETE VIEW OF THE GAME BEFORE HE FALLS TO A HAMMER? (Note: if he does it after this it obviously isn't genuine)

[Papa Zito]

There are, in no uncertain terms, going to be any town lists made today.

orly

Elli does lists.

But Elli has made no lists so far.

Why no lists?

I want to see a list.

[Fate]

orly

Papa Zito does town.

But Papa Zito has made no town so far.

Why no town?

I want to see town.

[Papa Zito]

I seem to have missed a good chunk of the day.

Also asking Elli for a list is a scumhunting opening but SHHHH don't tell him that.

[Fate]

But it doesn't need to be done TODAY.

Because I guarantee you 10:1 odds that AT LEAST one of you and Ellie are living through the night.

[magnus_orion]

@VV: none of your cases add up. Sorry. There is literally nothing there.

@Fate: Most of your case is useless too. If VV is scum, its because if you shoot enough times you'll eventually hit your target. Not because of your incredible sharp shooting skills. Only a tiny fraction of your case has any merit at all. In actuality, I'm tempted to assert that the lack of resistance this wagon is getting is indicative of town-vv. But I've been screwed by this reasoning in the past, so I'm not sure how much I trust it now. I still think its important, however, to question the people on the wagon and fully understand their motivations.
I don't understand the additional benefit of rushing into this lynch.

[Vi]

n no uncertain terms why you're confirmed Town, Fate. I've run it over and I can see how it would be more likely, but in no way

confirmed

.

If you really thought about it, you'd see why I was confirmed. But like I SAID, don't. Ignore it, pretend it never happened, let's play this like a mod-error free sexy normal game.

I don't want a bigger target on my back then I already have, so I want it left at that.

And I

don't

.

[Vi]

EBWOP: Meh. Looking at the time stamps, it's difficult to disagree. Even so, catching up.