ATHF Mafia OVER(roles and whatnot revealed)

[podium123456]

That was sarcasm, as your criticism didn't really make sense. You said that if i found his analysis to be satisfactory, then i should have also found his conclusion satisfactory (paraphrasing). That isn't true.

Pro-tip – dismissing questions with sarcasm instead of answering them isn’t Pro-Town.

I’m not going to get into a debate with your over whether a solid analysis should lead to solid conclusions. That’s a logic debate that has nothing to do with scum-hunting. Just know for the record I think you are wrong.

I didnt dismiss the question... i answered it, with a

very

small touch of sarcasm.

'Just for the record', i think you are wrong. I dont know why i can't say that i am not impressed with someone's conclusion if their conclusion doesn't make sense... REGARDLESS of how good their analysis was. His conclusion didn't make sense... it doesn't magically make sense just because his analysis was solid. Pretty sure you are wrong to criticize me for this.

I asked you why I shouldn’t see your original statement as self-serving because the first thing you didn’t like about his conclusions wasn’t his vote for a ??? read but that he found you to be scummy.

Him calling me scummy wasn't as much of a problem as i had with his implosion vote... but i can see how it looks like that based on the way i wrote the post. I'd say that was responsible for mayyybe 10% of my 'less than impressed' opinion.

You didn't bring this up previously, so i wasn't aware you were including that in your 'self serving' accusation. I understand better why you had/have that opinion, now.

We’ve already discussed you seem willing to let direct questions to him go unanswered when he did make a rare post.

Is once enough to say that i am 'willing to let questions go unanswered'? Seems a little sensationalist. Have i done it more than once? I cant recall that i have.

Pretty sure i said that before the claims came out.

And once again you don’t answer the question put to you – are you trying to say that the was Ghost approached the Implosion situation did not appear to be that of a Mason buddy?

You asked me about my opinion of Imp/GW mason connection based on what i said in that quote, but that quote obviously wasn't pertaining to that connection. I didn't answer it because it was irrelevant to the quote context -- not because i was deflecting.

Now... i guess you want to ask my opinion of the Imp/GW mason connection. I haven't examined their posts in that regard, but i currently don't really doubt their story. While i dont think what GW did was smart/correct, the pieces fit. If that's what you are asking.

In your opinion... i found seacore and GW to be much scummier. I thought implosion was probably a VI... and i was right.

Yes it is my opinion. That’s what this game is about.

I only said in your opinion, because you were factually criticizing my play based on your personal opinion.

Also – you are using the term VI wrong. Implosion may not be a stellar player but he’s far from a VI. That’s reserved for the worst of the worst. You look to be using the term as a means to undermine what we currently think is a Town confirmed player.

Fine, what do you want me to say? Bad town? Noob town? Does it matter? How does that undermine anything? It is what it is.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Votecount (as of this post)
Deadline is December 7th at 12:34 PM PST
implosion: 1 (VasudeVa) L-6
Seacore: 2 (implosion, podium) L-5
VibeBox: 6 (Fate, GhostWriter, Magna, Nacho, RedCoyote, Seacore)

L-1

Not Voting: 3 (Kcdaspot, VibeBox, Zdenek) L-4

[Kcdaspot]

MFW I LINKED IT TO YOU! They simply found MIRACULOUSLY someone scummier. I gotten all i can get out there and I can't get you to say a STRAIGHT FRICKIN ANSWER! It's like talking to a... *looks at pod's avi* well... I've tried to explain the case as best I can. for now I'm going to keep my read RIGHT Where it is. I just don't buy enough of it.

I promise to keep looking over the thread as the game continues and as it does and you start making more sense to me then I can start reading you deferentially.

Simply you defended against the initial attack very poorly, I'm not sure if I'm yet ready to forgive that. Fair?

[podium123456]

I have clearly stated my case several times.

Provide a nice summary of why he’s scum that contains all the stuff you still actually stand by.

Seacore:

* i was initially susp. of him dropping implosions accusation so quickly. since then, i have pulled this back to a null observation.

* in this post he states that he is getting close to voting for me, but wants to think about it over the weekend. 10 minutes later (and with nothing additional from me) he votes for me.


Case summary 1


Case summary 2


* Twice when i was under heavy pressure, he mentioned that i had made inconsistencies. However, he can't say what those are now. <-- this seems like a scum skimming the thread, and not actually evaluating accusations.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Rebuttal discussions about my case, in case anyone wants to read them:

One

Two

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

I remain much more in favor of a seacore lynch over vibe, for the reasons given.

[Kcdaspot]

*sigh* said my piece.. bedtime... BTW i'll be able to read and short-reply in the mornings, school, ill be able to properly reply at noon

g'nite

[podium123456]

They simply found MIRACULOUSLY someone scummier. I gotten all i can get out there and I can't get you to say a STRAIGHT FRICKIN ANSWER!

First of all, you aren't asking me for a straight answer... i'm asking you for one. Got it?

Secondly, i still dont feel you have justified your accusation. If they dropped my case, they would obviously move to someone else. Even if you take that out of the equation and say that they moved to someone more scummier... what does that have to do with how well i defended myself?

FYI - You don't have to respond back about this if you dont want to... im satisfied that i have sufficiently defended against your accusation for now.

Simply you defended against the initial attack very poorly, I'm not sure if I'm yet ready to forgive that. Fair?

Obviously I disagree about your assessment, but you are certainly entitled to your opinion.

[MagnaofIllusion]

You know what this thread really is missing as of late? Any sort of VV presence at all. Especially since he's been posting in other games since his last post here.

Is once enough to say that i am 'willing to let questions go unanswered'? Seems a little sensationalist. Have i done it more than once? I cant recall that i have.

You are trying to move the goal-posts here. It isn’t that you’ve done it on a repeated basis. Nice deflection attempt. The issue is that you directly asked Vibe why you were scum. Vibe then makes a generic, useless post and ignores your question. Your response? Nada. Nothing. I wasn’t until I pointed that out this fact that you say “Oh yeah, forgot that’ and re-ask the question.

If you really were interested in getting the information from Vibe you would have followed up on it. That’s behavior I believe is definitely more likely to come from scum.

You asked me about my opinion of Imp/GW mason connection based on what i said in that quote, but that quote obviously wasn't pertaining to that connection. I didn't answer it because it was irrelevant to the quote context -- not because i was deflecting.

This is horrible justification for not answering a direct question to you. Your post indicated (you failing to actually look at the preview aside) that he had suspicion of GW. Thus I asked you if you didn’t think Ghostwriter’s play indicated he was a Mason with Implosion. That you deemed it not worth answering because the quote that triggered the question was tangentially related is a poor justification.

I only said in your opinion, because you were factually criticizing my play based on your personal opinion.

But the only 100% independent facts in a Mafia game are the publicly provided information from the Mod (and in a slightly Bastard game as Mod advertised this). All the rest is opinion of the players provided at its base.

Fine, what do you want me to say? Bad town? Noob town? Does it matter? How does that undermine anything? It is what it is.

You spend a good amount of time in this game throwing insults and aspersions at other players (Implosion is a VI, everyone on the Implosion wagon are ‘Pro’ scum-hunters). There isn’t a Pro-Town motivation to undermine Implosion if you think he is likely a Town Mason.

And what standard do you judge Implosion to be ‘bad Town’? Is it because he amassed a sizeable wagon for his play?

I’ll look over your Seacore case as presented in full a little later but wanted to make the following observations –

i was initially susp. of him dropping implosions accusation so quickly. since then, i have pulled this back to a null observation.

You pulled back because others (Fate, IIRC) pointed out that your assertion was wrong and Seacore didn’t drop it quickly. I note you didn’t directly link this point like you did all the others.

* in this post he states that he is getting close to voting for me, but wants to think about it over the weekend. 10 minutes later

(and with nothing additional from me) he votes for me.

I’d like to point out that the bolded portion is an outright lie.

Seacore makes his statement at 128.

You respond with a question to Seacore at 131.

You make a response to Fate at 133.

Seacore responds to your 131 at 134 and then votes you at 135.

To say there was nothing additional from you is a lie.

[podium123456]

You seem to already have your mind made up about me, as you reject nearly (if not all) EVERY explanation/answer i give you... even about trivial things. Tunnel vision much?

Is once enough to say that i am 'willing to let questions go unanswered'? Seems a little sensationalist. Have i done it more than once? I cant recall that i have.

You are trying to move the goal-posts here. It isn’t that you’ve done it on a repeated basis. Nice deflection attempt.

First of all, this is NOT moving the goalposts. Not even close. I am not disputing that i didnt follow up, i am taking issue with how you described it. Addressing a possible misrepresentation isn't moving the goal posts. Moving the goal posts would be me accusing you of something, and then shifting to a slightly different point if you successfully rebutted the first point.

If you really were interested in getting the information from Vibe you would have followed up on it. That’s behavior I believe is definitely more likely to come from scum.

Yeah. Either that, or you know, i just forgot. Mistakes happen.

You asked me about my opinion of Imp/GW mason connection based on what i said in that quote, but that quote obviously wasn't pertaining to that connection. I didn't answer it because it was irrelevant to the quote context -- not because i was deflecting.

This is horrible justification for not answering a direct question to you. Your post indicated (you failing to actually look at the preview aside) that he had suspicion of GW. Thus I asked you if you didn’t think Ghostwriter’s play indicated he was a Mason with Implosion. That you deemed it not worth answering because the quote that triggered the question was tangentially related is a poor justification.

It isn't a 'horrible justification'... the question you asked me was COMPLETELY unrelated to what i meant with the quote. The only reason you asked me the question was because of the quote. Therefore if i explain that the quote didnt mean what you thought it did, it's natural to assume that the question would be moot. Dont act like this is a black and white situation where you point blank asked me a question and i didnt answer you... there are variables here.

And i attempted to give you an answer even though i wasnt sure if it was what you were looking for, and i STILL dont really know what you want or are even talking about. That quote was referring to MY suspicion of GW. It had nothing to do with a GW/Imp connection. What exactly is the problem here?

I only said in your opinion, because you were factually criticizing my play based on your personal opinion.

But the only 100% independent facts in a Mafia game are the publicly provided information from the Mod (and in a slightly Bastard game as Mod advertised this). All the rest is opinion of the players provided at its base.

What does this have to do with anything? That doesn't change the fact that you stated your opinion of the top scummiest players as a fact, and criticized me as being suspicious because i didn't follow your order.

Fine, what do you want me to say? Bad town? Noob town? Does it matter? How does that undermine anything? It is what it is.

There isn’t a Pro-Town motivation to undermine Implosion if you think he is likely a Town Mason.

Stop trying to twist this around. Saying that someone played bad doesn't undermine anything... it is what it is. Are you telling me that you think he played well?

And what standard do you judge Implosion to be ‘bad Town’? Is it because he amassed a sizeable wagon for his play?

What the hell do you think it's because? Of course it's because of his play, that resulted in a L-1 condition. Do you think that he wasn't playing poorly?

* in this post he states that he is getting close to voting for me, but wants to think about it over the weekend. 10 minutes later

(and with nothing additional from me) he votes for me.

I’d like to point out that the bolded portion is an outright lie.

To say there was nothing additional from you is a lie.

There was nothing substantive from me regarding Seacore's case against me... i.e. nothing that should have changed his earlier opinion. Now i'll wait for you to tell me that there was.

i was initially susp. of him dropping implosions accusation so quickly. since then, i have pulled this back to a null observation.

You pulled back because others (Fate, IIRC) pointed out that your assertion was wrong and Seacore didn’t drop it quickly.

I pulled back because of MY opinion... not fate's. Even if that was the case, what does that have to do with my statement? I still consider it a null tell, and worth noting.

I note you didn’t directly link this point like you did all the others.

I also didn't link to Seacore asking me for inconsistencies. 'The bolded is a lie.'

[Kcdaspot]

One thing that bugs me about you podium... You come off as smug more often than not. You always have to have the last say... one reason I don't buy it...

No I don't expect you to NOT answer your critics but when you make it well "I'm the final authority, I'm always right..." it's too confusing when we have two of those here...

I'd just rather you break down your thought process more... We are all here to do one thing: catch mafia. Please be more.... not-smug? in the future.. It'll help me decide whos who.

[Seacore]

All this podium bashing is well and good, but where the hell is Vibe? Could we have a prod please?

done

[podium123456]

One thing that bugs me about you podium... You come off as smug more often than not. You always have to have the last say... one reason I don't buy it...

No I don't expect you to NOT answer your critics but when you make it well "I'm the final authority, I'm always right..." it's too confusing when we have two of those here...

More generalizations, tbh.

[Kcdaspot]

I'm not accusing you anymore!!! I'm trying to get you to calm down!! More over why did you defend against that? you could've said "that's my playstyle" or "Sorry, I'll be more less snobbish, if that's what you think of me" but no. You defend it like it's a attack. WHY?

IGMEOY: podium

Not everything I say about you is going to be a attack. THAT was a request.

[Zdenek]

RedCoyote, your "catch-up" post leaves a lot to be desired, and either comes from lazy town or scum who knows he's not getting lynched today.

Podium, why do you say that RC is "caught up"?

[podium123456]

Not everything I say about you is going to be a attack. THAT was a request.

I read the bolded:

One thing that bugs me about you podium... You come off as smug more often than not. You always have to have the last say...

one reason I don't buy it

...

as an attack (justification that this observation meant i was scum).

Besides... most everything you have said to me so far HAS been an attack.

[implosion]

@Magna: my investigations tell me what character someone is (like I thought). IDK

exactly

how this is supposed to help me catch scum, but it could be that they're suspicious characters (Dr. weird and his crew, the aliens, etc) and have fakeclaims. Just a thought.

@VV: where did you go and what do you think about recent developments? Also, quick ironic moment - his last posts talk about avoiding the thread and needing replacements, and he hasn't posted in 3 days (and according to Magna, has been posting in other games).

Fate, I really want to know actually... you yourself admitted that Vibe is likely town, which you said troubles you, which I don't see in your latest post. If you weren't tunneling on Vibe, who would you tunnel on next? Seeing as you essentially control

everyone's

vote because you control such a large block and so much influence at this time, why are you voting someone that you think is likely town (even if he could be unstable)? His most recent post/posts, though outdated because he hasn't posted in so long, seem to imply that he's going to become more stable (except for his vote on me).

[podium123456]

@ zdenek

It was just a welcome/thx/encouragement message...

[MagnaofIllusion]

@Magna: my investigations tell me what character someone is (like I thought). IDK exactly how this is supposed to help me catch scum, but it could be that they're suspicious characters (Dr. weird and his crew, the aliens, etc) and have fakeclaims. Just a thought.

I don’t think this is very likely the case Implosion. Mod has stated that you will not be able to break the game by relying on source flavor. Given that many of characters in ATHF would be flavor wise likely to be viewed as Scum I think simply going on a character alone is unlikely to yeild successes in the scum-hunting realm.

[implosion]

@Magna: my investigations tell me what character someone is (like I thought). IDK exactly how this is supposed to help me catch scum, but it could be that they're suspicious characters (Dr. weird and his crew, the aliens, etc) and have fakeclaims. Just a thought.

I don’t think this is very likely the case Implosion. Mod has stated that you will not be able to break the game by relying on source flavor. Given that many of characters in ATHF would be flavor wise likely to be viewed as Scum I think simply going on a character alone is unlikely to yeild successes in the scum-hunting realm.

It's speculative. iirc the mod stated that the game was designed so a massclaim wouldn't break it, which could mean fakeclaims.

[Kcdaspot]

either way podium why can't you just acknowledge the question and politely answer it? this is about me wanting you to take just a little bit of your ego out... that's all.

I should vote here, but being i don't wanna be the hammer and i don't like podium i'll just vote him.
A) he has no one on him so he shouldn't whine too much I hope
B) I still have my gripes about his play but seeing that we won't come to an agreement today I'll just lay my vote there

P.S. If you do become in danger of being lynched today and I DO feel that you haven't be rightly givin a chance to defend I WILL unvote you but due to the odds of ever being in that scenario are high mainly because of vibe. is this OK?

also: I'll promise to look over your ISO many times so that way I'll be more informed when the times comes to choose. In other words: I promise to CAREFULLY CHECK if you really did make a probable case in the mean time.

fair? (yes or no will suffice)

[Kcdaspot]

VOTE: podium

[Kcdaspot]

also will switch when needed to hammer but for now I'll sleep and carefully look at podiums ISO tomorrow

[Seacore]

In regards to the role cop, I think we can afford to check it once.

If somebody gets either mooninite or either plutonian, we should lynch them. If they flip with that role but not the expected alignment, we don't do it again. But unless we're close to lylo or mylo, I think it's worth one try.

Implosion, how familiar are you with Aqua Teen Hunger Force, will you recognise potentially scummy characters? MC Pee Pants and the 4 aliens are probably the most familiar bad guys. I don't think the professor would count but he could.

[podium123456]

Lol albert.

aint no worries man. do yo thang.

i dont have any personal beef with you right now, if you felt that way for some reason. but that's not to say that i don't disagree with some of your statements.

i can be an arrogant SOB at times, but i always try to match whatever respect/attitude i am given. in other words, i'm nice/civil until someone is a jerk to me, and then i give them the same attitude back.

[Nachomamma8]

DOCTOR WOMBURGER

[RedCoyote]

Thanks, Mod!

---

Also, if you've stopped at 176, you've missed just a little.

I've read enough to know that this game is already well passed any reasonable stage of discussion. I'm not blaming it all on one person, but it doesn't take a genius to see that this circlejerk everyone is participating in has long passed its usefulness. You cannot look at this game objectively any longer having been participating in it since the beginning. It's completely bloated and full of trivial nonsense. The best remedy is to finish this day as soon as possible. It will open up reasonable avenues of discussion that won't necessarily be exclusively related to today.

---

SCUM

RC:

POST MORE DAMMIT, the analyze post is a start but without ANYTHING to go on, I can't get a read!

Wait, you say you can't get a read on my slot but I'm under the label of "SCUM"? Please explain.

---

RedCoyote if you really are going to be this apathetic just replace out. I don’t really have much patience for someone who says they really are tired of reading the game.

There's no need to be dramatic. You should thank you're lucky stars someone like me would bother getting into this cesspool. That's not to say that I'm gracing you with my presence or anything, but that you now have a player in this slot who won't abandon the game.

Again, though, if you seriously think this game needs "more discussion" as a solution, then you're way off base, my friend. That's why everyone is leaving in droves. That's why people like VibeBox are afraid to so much as look at this thread, let alone post in it. If you don't post a wall commenting on every like detail then you're made to look as though you're apathetic.

I can’t say as I find KCDA’s final catch-up post as very whelming. His two scum-reads nicely mimic the most popular suspects of the Day so far.

I felt similarly, but why do you think Nacho has taken to him?

---

One thing that bugs me about you podium... You come off as smug more often than not. You always have to have the last say... one reason I don't buy it...

No I don't expect you to NOT answer your critics but when you make it well "I'm the final authority, I'm always right..." it's too confusing when we have two of those here...

And does this personality trait make him more likely to be scum? podium, and God bless him for having put up with this for as long as he has, is constantly responding to everyone, yet it always seems like that's never enough. It's getting to the point where we have to get posts about how he cannot post fast enough to answer everyone else. It's a wonder players like MoI and Nacho don't seem to get it. No one is even voting this guy, yet there's this constant back and forth with him as though he constantly needs to be lectured to or addressed or some other such nonsense.

---

RedCoyote, your "catch-up" post leaves a lot to be desired, and either comes from lazy town or scum who knows he's not getting lynched today.

I won't play along with your silly little game of berating podium for a dozen pages, TYPING IN ALL CAPS, and insulting each other left and right. If that makes me "lazy town", then so be it. There are only two ways you're going to put an end to me forcing some common sense into this game, by lynching me or by shooting at me. Deal with it.

---

Post 638 is the best post I've read in at least ten pages. It doesn't surprise me that implosion wrote it, given that he's consistently been the best player here. It's concise and simple in both its offense and inquisitive tone. Everyone in this game could take a lesson from this.

---

If somebody gets either mooninite or either plutonian, we should lynch them. If they flip with that role but not the expected alignment, we don't do it again. But unless we're close to lylo or mylo, I think it's worth one try.

This is another good post, by the way, similar to what I said immediately above.

I mostly agree with this in a kneejerk sort of way, but we should be resistant to assuming anything so broad, as MoI has pointed out. Did the Mod tell us whether or not the game has barrier? Is the entire franchise fair game, or just a certain amount of seasons? I've only seen up through season 6. An episode I think we can rely on, and I don't remember the number but I'm pretty sure it was season 4, where most of the "bad guys" met together on the Moon at the Mooninites' invitation.

[Fate]

@All:


But

consider me LA

not the normal sort of LA where I can't get on often, but the emotionally drained LA where... well you know. Let's just say I wasn't on a plane to paradise, it was to hell, but I went anyway because I had to.

Now give me some time to get back to my old self.


@Whoever: Yeah Vibe might be town but he could just as easily be scum and is the strongest read of scum I have atm. Plus if he's town he's sure not a big asset to us, let's see what he claims.