Objection Redux - It's all over bar the shouting!

[Vi]

*I basically agree with UK on Page 5 - the initial BlueVasuedeShoes argument was weak. It's difficult for me to evaluate what followed because it was basically VasudeVa panic-flailing in every direction with Fate screaming at him, but there's no way I can say VV looked GOOD coming out of it.
*However, The VasudeVa Monologues that followed continued flailing everywhere even after Fate stopped being the sole focal point of his attention, and his recent posts are scrambling in the worst kind of way.
**UK trying to active-lurk (this late, not around Page 3 when it was a good accusation)?
**Fate-scum when he's already pointed out why he's more likely than not Town? (one should always play fairly when one holds the winning cards - you're welcome to banter with Fate but seriously accusing him of being scum needs to be a bit more convincing)
**I'm an entirely null read?
**SpyreX is scum when he's claimed a confirmable role D1? (I have reliable meta to say he's played the bulletz game before, btw)
*Papa Zito is playing slightly better than vezo. By which I mean he needs to die.
*Jahudo is also a high-tier target for trying to near-completely sidestep VasudeFate while keeping his vote on someone who's not being looked at because he's a minor offender while Rhinox (who he said he would hammer D1 without thought) is being called scum.
*Rhinox is etc.

I would recommend a megalynch on Rhinox like rite nao but the power of the b&wagon is kind of compelling. I'm not superhyped that VasudeVa

sudeVa

sudeVa

sudeVa

sudeVa

VasudeVa

will flip scum but the chance of him leaving the game via means other than lynch is fairly minimal; and between the Vanilla claim, the unhelpful scumhunting, and the fact that a majority already wants him dead

anyway

I can't work myself up to being opposed to this lynch.

If I had a bullet I would spray it with some Rhino-X, of course. PZ is a good second choice.

---

Intent to hammer, 48 hours.
In the meantime, magnus_orion can protest/waffle less and do something meaningful with his life.

[magnus_orion]

In the meantime, magnus_orion can protest/waffle less and do something meaningful with his life.

Sorry you feel that way. Everything I want to say is being said.

I would recommend a megalynch on Rhinox like rite nao but the power of the b&wagon is kind of compelling. I'm not superhyped that VasudeVasudeVasudeVasudeVasudeVaVasudeVa will flip scum but the chance of him leaving the game via means other than lynch is fairly minimal; and between the Vanilla claim, the unhelpful scumhunting, and the fact that a majority already wants him dead anyway I can't work myself up to being opposed to this lynch.

This is, like, a perfect summary of my position on this game.
Except I like to stall more cause I like long day 1s. And information. Lots of information, long day 1s. This whole 11 page day 1 is totally ridiculous to me.

[UncertainKitten]

There is a such thing as too much information m_o. Day one can be a two edged sword, rather, a long one.

[magnus_orion]

meh. It depends on the game's speed. And how often people are posting/have to catch up. And what is being posted.
But this is a large theme. 11 pages on day 1? I mean, at least reach 20. ugh. Whatever, I'm not seriously opposed to VV's lynch.

[UncertainKitten]

I disagree, but I've also gotten used to shorter D1s and rather been enjoying them.

[SpyreX]

**SpyreX is scum when he's claimed a confirmable role D1? (I have reliable meta to say he's played the bulletz game before, btw)

Just so we're clear:

That was sarcasm. His whole "WHY WOULD HE POSSIBLY ASK THESE QUESTIONSSSS?" deserved a smarmy answer and he got it.

I most definitely haven't actually claimed anything.

[AlmasterGM]

Hello, hello. Sorry, holiday plus traveling meant no time for mafia. Now I have finals which means loads of time to procrastinate.

Since Fate seems to have covered the actual arguments (I don't get this whole "say it your own words" thing, I agree with his args and I'm not regurgitating them in a book report) and VV's whole arg against me is LOL AGM SHOULD KNOW MY META, I'll talk about that.

AGM:
Now then. My read on AGM is more on meta. But this guy has been in 2 games with me(Trader Mafia, Greek Mythology Mafia), modded me twice(AW:Mafia, DEFCON Mafia). Now, if you've known a certain player for that many games, it's not unreasonable that you'll get to pick up his playstyle, right?

I've been lynched D1 in the two games we were players together(we were both Town.) and I have lost BOTH games he has modded me in(In a funky fashion, might I add!).

He then....votes for me... without even acknowledging our past experience. Not even questioning or wondering 'Oh hey...maybe this is Vas fudging up again..'. He just hops along the wagon with sooo little words. If you have experience with a player whom you know as a player who messes up a lot, you would try to get a better read on him.

He didn't. He hopped along mercilessly.

These two are scum. Moar AGM votes plx.

VIG....COP...////// NK FODDER? So basically VV is saying "Im not worried about Fate he'll be taken care of at night one way or the other as one alignment or the other so Im not gonna bother butting heads with him." HE KNOWS IF HE BUTTS HEADS WITH ME HE WILL BE LYNCHED.

The second quote explains the second, although not fully. You're right - I have watched you pretty much punt two games as town and misread you in two others. The fact that you fell for the same tricks twice (executed by similar people, no less) leads me to believe you aren't putting a lot of effort into changing your town playstyle. However, I don't think you are dumb, necessarily, and if you pulled a scum role PM I think you would contemplate on how to hide. The way I think you would do that is to get the fuck out of the most aggressive person in the game - Fate. You would also have an incentive to dodge SocioPath (which you do by not responding to him even though he drops a vote directly on you).

With regards to the rest of your responses, I didn't go back and comb our game history, but they sounded different than I remember. Previously, you were a lot more logical a lot less dismissive with your defense. You also had lots more offense. This game, you've been significantly more defensive and dodging of Fate than you are in previous games (where you engaged him directly), which makes sense given the analysis I gave just above this. Your offense is also much weaker (both in content and in persuasive force) than I remember it. TL;DR THERE IS NOTICEABLE META SHIFT SO DON'T GIVE ME THAT.

And don't come back and be like "lol meta is for noobs anyway" because you asked for it in the first place.

That debacle aside, my other pick for scum is PZ. He's basically been sliding around through the game by complaining about the textwalls (which I don't sympathize with because I have infinite stuff to do too and I still read them) and nagging Elli and Vi to do stuff (which is illogical because there's plenty of content now that he can't keep up with, so if they DID show up and post content, he'd probably just go LOL TEXT WALL again). TL;DR PZ IS COASTING SCUM.

[AlmasterGM]

Also, @UK why do you ask me to explain my VV vote three times in a row but you DON'T ask the same of spyrex, even though he did the same thing I did (sans some random quotes with no explanation he threw down)?

[AlmasterGM]

Also also, I don't like mangus stalling the lynch - stalling usually leads to wagon shifts. If VV flips scum magnus is probably a buddy.

[magnus_orion]

Also also, I don't like mangus stalling the lynch - stalling usually leads to wagon shifts. If VV flips scum magnus is probably a buddy.

Or maybe I think Rhinox has got a better shot at being scum than VV and would prefer rhinox start posting to verify or nullify my suspicions.

[magnus_orion]

ebwop: by which I mean that I'd probably end up preferring a wagon shift onto rhinox.

[AlmasterGM]

Fine, but you aren't even making arguments for rhox-scum, your just agreeing with somebody else (idk who, you don't quote it in your iso). you are also not being comparative (e.g., why should we dump the vv wagon and switch to rhox).

all you do is say, "we need longer days," which is a bs excuse.

[magnus_orion]

there's nothing left to say. Hence the need more posting from rhinox.
I already said why. Rhinox has more scumminess to content ratio than VV, VV just has more thread noise, which invariably leads to an increase in the amount you read someone as scum.

And I say we need longer day 1s which is just something I always think. You can check my past games to verify that I am a strong believer in long day 1s. I said 20 before, but really that's what I see as good for minis, this is a large, so I think more like 40 is appropriate, but there's no way I'm getting that much with these people.

[Fate]

Oh wow AGM AND Vi posted.

Must be my lucky day

[AlmasterGM]

Re: Rhinox

So he's scummier because he's posting less on a holiday weekend that he says he'll be V/LA for? Seems weak.

Also, how does more noise invariably lead to a heavier scum read? Don't you say that Rhinox is scummier because he's posted less? Are you saying everyone is deluded about this EXCEPT for you?

Re: Long Days

Fine.

[magnus_orion]

more info = more things to call scummy.
is what I mean.
and what's that about delusion? Does that have to do with your picking at my semantics or with something else?

[AlmasterGM]

there's only more things to call scummy if the person is being scummy. if there person was being town, then there'd be more things to call town.

[AlmasterGM]

whatever this argument is menial and does not cancel out the fact that if vv flips scum this is a REALLY weak and thinly veiled counter-argument and you are thus probable-vv-buddy.

[magnus_orion]

Most people commit things that could be interpreted as scumtells frequently. If I had been lurking instead of mentioning my preference for long day 1s, you'd have nothing to call me a buddy for. I'm town, doesn't mean I don't say things that can't be interpreted as scummy.
and just for sake of completeness, he's scummier per amount of content he posts than VV. Not because he's posting less. Because when he does post, they contain more scummy content per post than does VV's posts.

[Fate]

Holy shit you two are still going at it?

Feels weird to not be the one arguing >_>

[Fate]

he's scummier per amount of content he posts than VV. Not because he's posting less. Because when he does post, they contain more scummy content per post than does VV's posts.

Do you actually have evidence to back this up or are you just making generalized bullshit statements about Rhinox's posts and hoping no one will call you out on them?

[Fate]

Because whats PISSING ME OFF is:
"I like my D1s LONGGGGGGGGGGGG AND HARDDDDDDDDDDDD"

But you're clowning around the VV wagon with nothing more than "meh momentum, let it go let it go through." WHICH IS A DIRECT CONTRADICTION.

YOU WNAT A LONG D1? YOU ARENT REALLY PUSHING FOR IT. IN FACT YOU SAY VI'S THOUGHTS MIMIC YOURS PERFECTLY (DERPA BUDDY DERPA) WHEN HE SAYS "LET THE VV WAGON COMPLETE ITSELF IT MUST BE DONE FOR JUSTICE" WHEN IF YOU WERE TOWN YOU'D SAY "RHINOX IS MORE SCUMMEH FOR X Y A B C D, LETS PROLONG THIS SHIT AND DISSOLVE THIS VV WAGON FOR AWHILE, WE HAVE HIS CLAIM WHICH IS TOWNISH FOR Z B H Y D AND HIHIAYIYAIYAIYAIYAI"

But no.

NO.

MAGNUS ARE FOR TEH DYING NOW. AGM IS NO LONGER FOR DYING. VEZOK IS NOT FOR DYING. ZITO MAGNUS FOR DEATH 2010.

[magnus_orion]

because, as I said before, most of your case was noise.
you had some valid points, and VV's reactions were certainly interesting, but it could have been shortened to only few valid points
Whereas most of the points against rhinox's few and brief posts have been valid (there may have been some noise, I think I recall something having to do with meta and smilies that I could have done without)


Preview edit: I have neither the time, patience, will, reason, or interest in deconstructing your case against VV. If He can't respond to your points adequately it doesn't mean that I can't see an interpretation where he can. Just because I *could* see wiggle room out of most of your case doesn't mean I should pass out directions rather than watch for VV's response.

[magnus_orion]

if it isn't clear what I mean I should go on to say that in absence of anything more to push on rhinox, my only option to push a rhinox wagon would be to defend VV, hence the dilemma

[AlmasterGM]

So you don't want to deconstruct the case, but you somehow mysteriously KNOW that the Rhinox "case" (even though there's no case) is better than the VV case because Rhinox has posted less and therefore subjected to this magically unsupported phenomenon that people who post more are more likely to be called scum because there are more things to call them out on DESPITE the fact that this can clearly work both ways and there is an obv site meta AGAINST lurkers?

hmm?