Mini 1087 - The Dresden Files Game Over!

[LimMePls]

/confirm.

I say we just start.

[LimMePls]

...and smargaret.

...and LMP?!?!

[LimMePls]

VOTE: LMP
ZOMGSCUM!!

QFT.

Vote: LMP

[LimMePls]

Blargh! First time I ever self vote, attempting to reaction fish, and I get ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. Pretty hilarious.

Unvote
Vote: CityOfA

For expressing pretty good suspicion of havingfitz in 93 followed by vote on Smargaret in 94, when a vote on fitz would have been MUCH better. Something doesn't smell right to me there.

[LimMePls]

Mariyta: I've read all the books at least three times and seen every episode of the TV show. I did not get my favorite character

So, David Parker fakes a daykill, decides that Mariyta is town, and then contributes nothing else? I'm assuming that comment about actually daykilling Mariyta on the basis of gender was a joke. DP, I want answers to those questions so I can read you. If you won't answer questions when they're put to you, how are we supposed to tell whether you're town or scum?

UNVOTE:
VOTE: DP

This post has just enough faux-scumhunting to set off my scumdar. It's the Goldilocks of fake scum hunting. Not too much, and not too little, but just right.

FoS: smargaret

I'm liking smargaret/fitz/CoA as scum right now. 1 of those is definitely scum, maybe 2, possibly all 3.

[LimMePls]

Oh, and I have no knowledge of the source material.

[LimMePls]

My V/LA continues because of a delayed flight due to bad weather.

LMP, how were you hoping to distinguish scum reactions from town reactions to your self vote?

With my awesome brain.

[LimMePls]

tl;dr: Fitz does a terrible job at imitating a content post.

QFT.

[LimMePls]

Pretty sure we can't go wrong with lynching fitz or smargaret today. I'd really like some comments on my thoughts on CityOfAs, particularly from COA.

[LimMePls]

Pretty sure we can't go wrong with lynching fitz or smargaret today. I'd really like some comments on my thoughts on CityOfAs, particularly from COA.

I think this is your only post concerning me (correct me if I am wrong):

Blargh! First time I ever self vote, attempting to reaction fish, and I get ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. Pretty hilarious.

Unvote
Vote: CityOfA

For expressing pretty good suspicion of havingfitz in 93 followed by vote on Smargaret in 94, when a vote on fitz would have been MUCH better. Something doesn't smell right to me there.

Why do you think a vote on fitz is better? And if so, why did you never vote for fitz? In post #119 and 154, you say that smargaret is a high scum suspect. So why is me voting for her scummy? IMO I had a slightly better case on her than on fitz.

The smargaret accusation at that point in time was weak. Smargaret has done more recent stuff that is much better. So the voting smargaret when your accusation of fitz was stronger is strange. So I disagree with your assessment of the strength of those two cases. Hence my vote and questions.

Please explain in a single post both of the cases you were making in 93 and 94, and why you feel the one on smargaret was better.

Pretty sure we can't go wrong with lynching fitz or smargaret today.

Why are you voting me then?

You still hadn't addressed my points, and I didn't want you to lurk them away.

[LimMePls]

First of all, LMP's self-vote. I've seen scum caught day one for essentially their self-vote and subsequent reaction to questioning. I'm still definitely worried about LMP because of this early move. I'm all the more concerned because when he made the self-vote, we'd already had the fake vig kill so we were well on the way out of RVS. The fact that he didn't have a plan to determine scum reactions from town reactions makes me think that he was just reaction fishing which was unnecessary at that point in the game.

This is absurd. The daykill was an OBVIOUS JOKE. Anyone with an IQ above single digits could tell it wasn't real. Why was it worthy of discussion or having an opinion of it at all? I also fail to see how it was by itself worthy of driving us out of RVS, or why more than one person taking actions that can drive us out of RVS is bad. Your suspicions are ridiculous.

[LimMePls]

I thought that fitz making an obvious random vote was scummy. he appeared to be trying to look normal by voting, but being so emphatically obvious about it was weird.

I thought that smarg's vote was worse. she essentially did the same thing, an obv random vote, except this was a bandwagon. I said a couple quotes above why this is scummy.

What it looks to me is that you just disagree with me on which case is more incriminating... which I don't think is a reason for me to be scum. What's wrong with two townies disagreeing with each other? Do you expect everyone to agree with you on everything, and those who don't should get lynched?

Of course disagreeing with me isn't scummy. But when I see someone's thought process go different to mine, I'm gonna probe them on it. So I voted and asked questions. I think your answers look fine, but I'm not sure how I feel about your defensiveness here to just a couple votes and some simple questions. Why do my questions and vote make you jumpy about a lynch? You do understand that a lynch takes much more than that, right?

@Zd: You make me laugh.

[LimMePls]

I'm curious to hear LMP's response to this as well.

When I said that, you weren't a particularly good lynch. Then you kept making your awesome-bad posts, and now I'm certain the play is you or fitz.

[LimMePls]

@fitz: Here are the reasons I suspected you, and felt you were a better suspect than smargaret. It had ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with ignroing the daykill, since ignoring the daykill was what any sane person with an IQ higher than a rock's would have done, since it was an obvious joke.

Honest. I mean it. No reason other than randomness.

That is some serious weirdness there.

I'm just not a big fan of RVS and as I was going through the motions of putting a vote out there I just felt like letting my sarcasm flow a bit.

If you're not a big fan of RVS, then why were you "going through the motions"? There are plenty of players who don't RVS because they don't like it. Why wouldn't you just say "I'm not RVS'ing cause I don't like it". It looks to me like you are trying to blend with the town, and you want to appease people who expect an RVS vote.

I assumed it was fake but in my skim through I don't recall seeing anything that definitively clarified it. Are we officially out of RVS already? I think I'm still in it. I'm glad you're still alive though...that was a pretty funny exchange between you and DP.

It's called sarcasm. I use it ocassionally. We aren't in RVS anymore are we?

For someone who professes to not like RVS you sure seem to A) Talk about it a lot and B) Worry about when it is over or not.

Those were my reasons for suspecting you. You haven't gotten better either, there have been additional things (that god awful wall post for one) that only make things more obvious.

Also, your timeline on me isn't taking into account that I haven't been very active, so naturally my opinions on things will change from one of my posts to the next. Smargaret was not a better vote than you at the time CoA made that vote, IMO. Hence my suspicion of him, and placing my vote there. By the time I came back and made my next post, smargaret had done many more things that make her (right?) a better suspect. Trying to paint my change of opinion as scummy is hilarious.

[LimMePls]

Unvote
Vote: fitz

That should have happened last post.

[LimMePls]

The smargaret accusation at that point in time was weak.

Smargaret has done more recent stuff that is much better

. So the voting smargaret when your accusation of fitz was stronger is strange. So I disagree with your assessment of the strength of those two cases. Hence my vote and questions.

When I said that, you weren't a particularly good lynch.

Then you kept making your awesome-bad posts

, and now I'm certain the play is you or fitz.

LMP, do you want to explain the discrepancy here? Why do I feel like you're trying to keep your options open?

I'm not 100% satisfied by DDD's response, but I'm leaning more misguided town than scum at the moment.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: LMP

Much better as in "much better scum tells". Context FTW!

[LimMePls]

How am I trying to keep my options open? I've been very frank with who I think the lynch is today (you or fitz).

I'm as reasonably certain as I can be that one of the two of you is scum. I wouldn't be at all surprised if both of you were.

[LimMePls]

The smargaret accusation at that point in time was weak.

Smargaret has done more recent stuff that is much better

. So the voting smargaret when your accusation of fitz was stronger is strange. So I disagree with your assessment of the strength of those two cases. Hence my vote and questions.

When I said that, you weren't a particularly good lynch.

Then you kept making your awesome-bad posts

, and now I'm certain the play is you or fitz.

LMP, do you want to explain the discrepancy here? Why do I feel like you're trying to keep your options open?

I'm not 100% satisfied by DDD's response, but I'm leaning more misguided town than scum at the moment.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: LMP

The first bold (if read properly for context) is saying "Smargaret has done more recent stuff that is much scummier". The word "better" meant "better reasons to vote her" since my point as that when CoA placed his vote on you, it looked sketchy to me because you hadn't really done things I felt deserving of the vote. But then you started making scummy post after scummy post. Hence the second bold.

There is no discrepancy.

[LimMePls]

@fitz: Here are the reasons I suspected you, and felt you were a better suspect than smargaret. <snip>

Honest. I mean it. No reason other than randomness.

That is some serious weirdness there.

Or as I mentioned to CoA....sarcasm (with a bit of reaction fishing).

Well sure, you say that now. Doesn't change that it stank to high heaven.

I'm just not a big fan of RVS and as I was going through the motions of putting a vote out there I just felt like letting my sarcasm flow a bit.

If you're not a big fan of RVS, then why were you "going through the motions"? There are plenty of players who don't RVS because they don't like it. Why wouldn't you just say "I'm not RVS'ing cause I don't like it". It looks to me like you are trying to blend with the town, and you want to appease people who expect an RVS vote.

I'm not a big fan of RVing and I RV in every new game I am in. I do not say I don't because I don't like it because in one of my early games someone expressed that sentiment and took more flack than I care to bother with. So I put a RV out there to go through the motions. Anyone who think my OTT emphasis on my RV is a scumtell is making a major reach and IMO which is more indicative of a suspect alignment that the OTT RV itself.

So you do it because you don't want to take flak? That is EXACTLY my point. You are altering your feelings/behavior to appease the town, which is bad. It shows that your thinking in this game is aligned towards not wanting to take "more flack than I care to bother with" rather than behaving in a manner you deem best for hunting scum. You think RV is bad, but you not only participate you go out of your way to constantly point out that you are doing it. Scumtastic.

Smargaret was not a better vote than you at the time CoA made that vote, IMO

So you are saying from the early onset of this game you have suspected both smarg and I....me moreso than smarg. Seeing as CoA suspects smarg moreso than me...that made him voteworthy. You then proceed to FoS the person you just indicted CoA for voting and ignore me...i.e. no FoS or vote...despite the fact you clearly tought I was more suspect than smarg. Timeline or not...you have not been sonsistent in your reads and the votes you have placed have been for crap rationale IMO

That's what I'm saying. What exactly is inconsistent (the word I'm guessing you meant with "sonsistent")? And what does "timeline or not" mean? Does that imply that you agree with the timeline I'm showing? If so, then your statements make no sense.

Speaking of which...LMP, I'm curious as to why you haven't responded to this, yet?

Because a) I already did earlier when someone else mentioned it and b) it's ridiculous. For the reading impaired (the relevant portion bolded for comprehension assistance):

This is absurd. The daykill was an OBVIOUS JOKE. Anyone with an IQ above single digits could tell it wasn't real. Why was it worthy of discussion or having an opinion of it at all?

I also fail to see how it was by itself worthy of driving us out of RVS

, or

why more than one person taking actions that can drive us out of RVS is bad

. Your suspicions are ridiculous.

[LimMePls]

Honest. I mean it. No reason other than randomness.

Well sure, you say that now. Doesn't change that it stank to high heaven.

Stank like a self vote? What would be the scum motivation for a RV like I made?

Hilarious. I love how I made the self vote and you say nothing, and only later when I admit that my self-vote gambit got nothing, people are screaming their heads off about it. Keep posting fitz, you're making this easier and easier. If you have a problem with my self-vote, why are you only NOW saying something about it? It didn't seem to bother you at the time. Your sudden interest in flinging mud at anyone you can when you are under pressure is awesome. I love my vote.

The scum motivation is obvious. You want to blend with the town, so you place an RV even though you don't like RV. You then point out that you are participating in the RV, trying to gain town-cred (LOOK AT ME, I RV'ED, EVEN THOUGH I DON'T LIKE IT. I MUST BE TOWN).

You think RV is bad, but you not only participate

you go out of your way to constantly point out that you are doing it.

Scumtastic.

Please elaborate on the bolded part of your quote above. What am I constantly doing?

And I'm not sure why this point isn't getting through to certain people but I will try again....I am not a fan of RVing. Despite the fact I am not a fan of RVing...I continue to RV in games that I play in (at least that I'm in from the start of). The fact I RV when I do not care for RVing is not scummy considering I do it on a regular basis. And as I have never been in a game as scum from the start...it can't be construed as scummy behavior (or at least as a scumtell) on my part.

You're kidding right? MULTIPLE TIMES DURING RV YOU POINTED OUT THAT YOUR VOTE WAS RV. You went out of your way to say "this is just RV". I've already quoted the relevant posts, I'm not doing it again. This isn't rocket science.

I say it is scummy that you are so concerned about what others see as RV or not RV, yet you say you don't like RV. If you don't like RV, don't do it. It's your obsessive need to reiterate that it was just RV that was scummy.

So you are saying

from the early onset of this game you have suspected both smarg and I....me moreso than smarg. Seeing as CoA suspects smarg moreso than me...that made him voteworthy. You then proceed to FoS the person you just indicted CoA for voting and ignore me...i.e. no FoS or vote...despite the fact you clearly tought I was more suspect than smarg.

Timeline or not...you have not been sonsistent in your reads and the votes you have placed have been for crap rationale IMO

That's what I'm saying. What exactly is inconsistent (the word I'm guessing you meant with "sonsistent")?

That's what you are saying? huh? I state what I find inconsistent in my post that you quote. I'll bold the bits I find inconsistent. And as CoA is still voting smarg over me...and you have FoS'd smarg over me...despite liking CoA's "case" on me more than his "case" on smarg...your move off CoA onto me continues what I view as inconsistency.

My stance is not inconsistant. This is so simple, it's absurd. Are you always this dense, or is this you squirming because you're caught scum? Here is a simple explanation of the flow of events:

1) You act scummy.
2) Smarg acts scummy, but not as much as you.
3) CoA votes smarg and not you.
4) I find it odd that CoA votes smarg and not you, when I feel that you are much more deserving of a vote.
5) I vote CoA and prod him over his vote.
6) Smarg goes on to make more scummy posts, now making smarg a much more viable wagon.
7) I say that smarg or you are the lynch.
8) CoA explains why he felt you were a better vote than smarg. CoA wants to know given my feelings in 7, why I'm voting him.
9) I explain that I hadn't had a response to my 4 and 5 from him, and so I didn't want to move my vote until I'd gotten a satisfactory response.
10) I consider CoA's response somewhat satisfactory.
11) I move my vote to you (the one I'm seeing as scummiest between smarg and you).

If you disagree with my understanding of the sequence of events, show me where you think I'm wrong. If you agree with the sequence of events, then show me an inconsistency, cause I don't see one.

And what does "timeline or not" mean? Does that imply that you agree with the timeline I'm showing? If so, then your statements make no sense.

It means I did not think your timeline had any bearing on the comments I made in conjunction with that point. No...I do not agree with your timeline. Your timeline comments are below and aside from the obv statement that people's opinions change over time (some at least) the bit below in bold still doesn't fit IMO.

Also, your timeline on me isn't taking into account that I haven't been very active, so naturally my opinions on things will change from one of my posts to the next. Smargaret was not a better vote than you at the time CoA made that vote, IMO. Hence my suspicion of him, and placing my vote there.

By the time I came back and made my next post, smargaret had done many more things that make her (right?) a better suspect.

Trying to paint my change of opinion as scummy is hilarious.

At what point are you saying smarg became a "better suspect"? When you had a vote on CoA for voting her over me (which infers I was a better suspect att). When you maintained your vote on smarg and Fos'd her (over me). Or when you took your vote off CoA and put it on me? For all the suspicions you have expressed towards smarg you sure seem to be avoiding commitment. Is she still your #2? Just out of curiosity (as I don't have any negtive read on him), has CoA fallen off your list?

Ok, I think perhaps I understand where the miscommunication is here. When I said that smarg mades comments that made her a beter suspect, I meant a better suspect than she had been before, NOT a better suspect than you.

You claim that I'm avoiding commitment on smarg. That is laughably absurd. Let me make myself abundantly clear:

The only lynches that I think are good today (at this point) are fitz and smarg.

I don't know how to be any clearer.

[LimMePls]

AH, RTFT or GTFO.

Define my "fail push on marge". You sound nonsensical.

[LimMePls]

I refuse to read these stupid walls of text.

Think that's scummy? Lynch me.

I hope everyone is catching Z's intent to vote-park. Keep in mind that the only other reason for the vote was that stupid beginning self-vote by LMP. No mention of LMP's fail push on marge? Z's going after LMP for a bunch of crappy reasons. And LMP's response is pretty much "lol, no". I'm smelling diesel.

antihero, DavidParker, Fitz, Oops and Smarg all strike me as town, and a lot would have to change for me to push any of their lynches today.

RUJK? That is your town list? RLY? Please explain what is townie about fitz and smarg.

[LimMePls]

First of all, LMP's self-vote. I've seen scum caught day one for essentially their self-vote and subsequent reaction to questioning. I'm still definitely worried about LMP because of this early move. I'm all the more concerned because when he made the self-vote, we'd already had the fake vig kill so we were well on the way out of RVS. The fact that he didn't have a plan to determine scum reactions from town reactions makes me think that he was just reaction fishing which was unnecessary at that point in the game.

This is absurd. The daykill was an OBVIOUS JOKE. Anyone with an IQ above single digits could tell it wasn't real. Why was it worthy of discussion or having an opinion of it at all? I also fail to see how it was by itself worthy of driving us out of RVS, or why more than one person taking actions that can drive us out of RVS is bad. Your suspicions are ridiculous.

Also respond to this, cause I don't think you have.

[LimMePls]

EBWOP: Oh, nevermind. You did. It was hilarious.

Zd's on the scum list. Whichever of smarg/fitz is scum, Zd is their partner.

[LimMePls]

Why I think smarg is town:
Her initial vote on Fate. I think scum would choose an easier path.
I think all this business of pushing people to answer questions and provide reasons for their votes is townie because scum might prefer to keep their mouths shut.

This is enough to be on your town list? Voting Fate and pushing people to answer questions and provide reasons? That is so illogical. You act like all scum are incapable of poor play. That makes no sense. Further, any behavior town would do (ie. pushing people to answer questions and provide reasons for votes) scum have incentive to do (ie. looking like town). Your argument for smarg town is illogical.

I'd like to point out that Smarg had posted a just twice before CoA's vote, and I think LMP was right to call him on voting her, but to call her scummy for questioning DP and RVing fate is a bit much.

I think the best point against Smarg is her vote on DP.

LMP when you attack her for that in Post 119, you call it the "Goldilocks of scum hunting" when it was a garbage vote for no good reason. Why would scum aim for the "Goldilocks of scum hunting?" Her vote was bad, but I think calling it that is pointless rhetoric.

No, it isn't pointless rhetoric. People who are

trying to appear

as if they are scum hunting are most likely scum. That is my point in the goldilocks reference. That post looked constructed to put forth just enough effort to be scum hunting, but no more. This is ABSOLUTELY something that needs to be pointed out, and is most certainly not pointless or rhetoric. It certainly isn't both.

Well, after a read through of Fitz, his earlier play was scummy: the RVS timidity; the buddying with Mariyta, being called on it, and then OMGUS voting her. On the other hand, I don't that scum under pressure would draw attention to themselves like that. The other cases on him seem to be based on his making an RVS vote despite not liking RVS and his reaction to the day-vig. Is that right? Anyway, I think he's been under a lot of pressure and hasn't responded badly. Now, if someone wants to show me that I am wrong, go ahead.

He exhibited "RVS timidity", yet you claim that you don't think scum would draw attention to themselves. Isn't "RVS timidity" scum trying not to draw attention to themselves? Putting that aside though, the big problem I have with this paragraph is how do these points:

his earlier play was scummy: the RVS timidity; the buddying with Mariyta, being called on it, and then OMGUS voting her

get outweighed by:

On the other hand, I don't that scum under pressure would draw attention to themselves like that.

to such a degree that you would make this statement:

After this read through, I still think Fitz and Smarg are town;

?

In other words, your post here implies that there are more reasons to dislike Fitz's play than to like it, and yet STILL you say "I still think Fitz [is] town". ILLOGICAL. That makes 2 town reads that not only do I disagree with, but I can't even understand the logic in your position.

After this read through, I still think Fitz and Smarg are town; although, perhaps I am less convinced than I was before. Unless someone shows me Fitz really floundering or lying in his walls, I'm comfortable with my read on him. Looking over a past game with town-Smarg, she was overly concerned with people providing cases in that game too, so while meta arguments are fairly weak, this combined her play in this game makes me feel okay about her too.

Preview edit: Oops' post. I think Oops is defending LMP from the weaker parts of the case against him. That said, I agree with his points, except the third as should be clear from the above.

Don't hate just because I'm so right that other people need to defend me!

[LimMePls]

AH, RTFT or GTFO.

Define my "fail push on marge". You sound nonsensical.

You quite cluttering the thread with walls or GTFO.

How do you like that?

Can you give me one good reason why marge is a good lynch today?

Mariyta: I've read all the books at least three times and seen every episode of the TV show. I did not get my favorite character

So, David Parker fakes a daykill, decides that Mariyta is town, and then contributes nothing else? I'm assuming that comment about actually daykilling Mariyta on the basis of gender was a joke. DP, I want answers to those questions so I can read you. If you won't answer questions when they're put to you, how are we supposed to tell whether you're town or scum?

UNVOTE:
VOTE: DP

This post has just enough faux-scumhunting to set off my scumdar. It's the Goldilocks of fake scum hunting. Not too much, and not too little, but just right.

FoS: smargaret

I'm liking smargaret/fitz/CoA as scum right now. 1 of those is definitely scum, maybe 2, possibly all 3.

We'll start here.

[LimMePls]

Well, I've tried to say what I think of Smarg above. With Fitz it's like this, he made his timid RVS vote and took flack for it. Now, scum would be more worried about attracting attention, but he goes out and OMGUSes Mariyta, which clearly draws attention to himself. My main feelings about Fitz come from his later posts. He seems reasonable, he isn't flailing and he hasn't been caught lying. So, at the moment, I am not inclined to push for his lynch now.

Fitz does something scummy. He comes under attention pressure. While under that pressure he does more bad things. Your logic is that he can't be scum because scum would act better under pressure? You do realize that scum can be bad players too, right? Scum don't always do the exact optimal play. In fact, scum OFTEN squirm under pressure, which is the ENTIRE REASON TO PRESSURE PEOPLE WHO ARE ACTING SCUMMY! Then, you say that your main feelings about Fitz come from his later play. So you disregard all of this bad play because he got his shit together and calmed down from the pressure? This is so illogical. There play under direct pressure is much more telling then there later play when the pressure has slacked off. Also, a player changing their style when under pressure screams scum to me. How on earth is a player making a scum tell, reacting poorly to the pressure that results possibly negated by his later play!? It is so irrational. Even if you thought his later play was decent, shouldn't that make him a null read? YOU CALL HIM TOWN!

Trying to understand Zdenek's logic makes me feel like I've taken crazy pills. It literally seems insane to me. This is not meant as an insult, its a statement of fact. The logic of it is so illogical that I can't wrap my mind around it.

[LimMePls]

Zd is making a strong case for scum. I still like fitz though. AH, what is your stance on fitz?

[LimMePls]

So because you think scum would have reacted differently, it's enough to ignore the scummy behavior AND CALL HIM TOWN!? That's what is so illogical. I don't see how you can admit to the bad things, but because he behaved in a way you think incosistant with scum, you call him TOWN. AT the least wouldn't it be a more neutral read? Or leaning scum? WHY ARE YOU CALLING HIM TOWN!? IT IS ILLOGICAL.

[LimMePls]

I'm sold.

Unvote
Vote: Zdenek

[LimMePls]

@MOD: I can haz VC?

Yes you can!

[LimMePls]

I wrote my reads post too hastily. I've viewed Antihero as being likely town for awhile, so I was trying to co-operate with him. I agree that saying null on Fitz makes more sense, but the only thing I ever really wanted to say was that I am not going to push for his lynch today.

Run through my BS-O-Matic returns the following text:

I need to backtrack from my obviously terrible town read on fitz. I figured I'd try buddying with Antihero, so I made that obviously terrible post calling fitz town. Now that you've offered me an option to backtrack, I'm going to try and weasel out of it the best way I can. I'm still gonna say I don't want him lynched today though, which if I really had a neutral read on him, I'd be at least open to the possibility of his lynch.

The BS-O-Matic9000 is a registered trademark of LMP Inc. All rights reserved.

[LimMePls]

BP is an easy claim to make as scum.

Because I can't seem to stop this wagon, I'm going to say that I would not be an acceptable lynch today. Please unvote.

1-shot BP also makes no sense with this statement. It isn't like the scum were gonna NK you anyways.

Looking at LMP's recent posts, he makes a good case on me erring in my judgment of Fitz. What does he expect me to do, continue to argue, when it's clear that I've made a mistake? That would be scummy. I made an error and I admitted it. The question now comes to him, what does it say about my alignment? He doesn't provide any sort of analysis, all he does is vote and make a sarcastic comment. I see this as him pushing a lynch without being concerned about whether the player is town or scum.

It was not a sarcastic comment, and it was analysis. The analysis is this: "Zdenek is caught giving a bullshit town read, and now trying to cover up his tracks when he realizes that someone has shown how nonsensical the read is. This indicates a conciousness of guilt." Then, to top it off, you still say "but I'm not ok with lynching fitz today". Just so I have this straight, in bizzaro-nonsense-Zd world, when I've successfully cornered a scummy player, pinned him down to his bad play, and forced a confession admitting that the play was scummy (giving a town read that was totally unjustified in while trying to "cooperate with AH"), I'm supposed to take that as a sign he is town!? That would be the most god-awful scum hunting in the history of the universe.

Investigator: So were you with the deceased on the night of the murder.
Suspect: No.
Investigator: Are you sure? That doesn't make sense, since you earlier said you were at Joe's house, and we know the deceased was at Joe's house.
Suspect: No, I wasn't there.
Investigator: Well what about this photo here, showing you standing on the front porch with the deceased at Joe's house?
Supsect: Alright, I was at Joe's house.
Investigator: Ok, good. That's all we needed. You're free to go.

Sorry Zd, we don't live in bizzaro nonsense land.

[LimMePls]

Fate, even if there is a hypothetical vig out there, why would we want him shooting at Zd anyways? It doesn't make sense. Zd being alive tomorrow proves nothing.

@MOD: T'anks for VC. I CAN HAZ SMARG PROD?

She's not quite at the 72 hours point yet but yes I'll send a preemptive prod.

[LimMePls]

@ Mod: Sorry, I thought I'd posted yesterday.

Hmmm...

Anyone wanna swing smargaret instead? I'm game.

[LimMePls]

Smargaret why didn't you post on the day I had come back and posted content?

Unvote:
Vote: Smargaret

"I thought I had posted in this game yesterday"

Just reeks scum to me. Like she is only trying to post in this game as minimal as possible (and reading her ISO it is really friggin bare) to coast by, instead of actually READING and following along with this game and posting when she has something to say.

ITT Fate and I see eye to eye.

Unvote
Vote: smargaret

[LimMePls]

@Maryita: At this point in D1, with all the information available to us, the best vote you got is a lurker vote?

[LimMePls]

LMP - scum. because i say so.

It begins. *Sigh*

[LimMePls]

Need to catch up from the weekend. I've 'skimmed' the last few days worth of posts but need to give a closer read. Still like my Oopidstay vote.

I haven't really paid any attention to smarg or the case/s on her so I need to look those over closer. Nothin scummy has jumped out at me irt her play so far.

If nothing scummy has jumped out at you from her play, you're doing it wrong. Also, if nothing bad has jumped out at you from her play, has anything good jumped out? What exactly? In the following quote you say you are "inclined to think she is town (ie innocent until she gives me a reason to suspect her)". But you've given us no explanation for the town read other than a supposed lack of scum-tells (which is hilarious given that every other player has seen scum-tells from the slot). So either provide town-tells, or admit you have none and your town read is bogus.

I think her flip would be helpful to town either way and as I'm inclined to think she is town (ie innocent until she gives me a reason to suspect her) and if she is town I definitely think there are 1-2 scum on her current 4-person wagon. Oopid and LMP have been following each others voting for most of the day along with Fate (who conveniently added a few dashes of Oopid voting [bussing?])...so I like any of those three ATM. Oopid>LMP>Fate.

We haven't been "following each others voting", we've happened to vote the same people because THEY ARE DOING SCUMMY THINGS! Implying we're scum for that is hilarious. Your list of suspicions is laughable.

All subject to change if my read on smarg changes or she gets lynched and flips scum.

This disclaimer reeks. This whole post was an attempt to sit the fence on smarg without looking like you were, and this last bit is the fail in your attempt. Your nonsensical, unsupported town read of smarg is noted. Your admission that your read is "subject to change" is hilarious.

[LimMePls]

Dear Town,

Can we please lynch fitz? It'll end well, I promise.

Love,
LMP

Unvote
Vote: fitz

[LimMePls]

^Town.

[LimMePls]

^Lies.

[LimMePls]

Zd, you are absurd. Laughably absurd. First, for those who don't want to look back, here are the relevant posts Zd references:

Looking at Smarge/Zdenek I see two solid cases... In fact, this is rare, I actually think both are scum, and while I hate being a sheep in games and prefer to make my own aggressive stance I'm currently bogged down with multiple games and bulllllk alchoool so i think this may have to be a game where I am a sheep to some extent. I actually believe both are scum. I expected upon rereeading the thread to get a scum read from neither or one of them but I feel they are actually scum buddies.

Zdenek - Early game questioning wasn't as useless as most people who ask mass questions early, ++town points, and statements like this give him town points: "About DavidParker, after making a move like the fake vig kill, he's likely to be labelled as town by almost everyone, and I didn't want to just leave him alone after it."

In general, I think people need to re-read zdenek's iso without "confirmation bias" and there isn't all that much pointing to him being scum.

The difference between that situation and yours is MASSIVE. Let me list them for you:

1) Yours was a nonsensical town-read with fail logic. His was a change of opinion between scum/town on a given player, while doing a catchup (when it is natural for a player's opinion to change).

2) You had to have it REAPEATEDLY pointed out to you that your read was fail before GRUDGINGLY admitting that it was fail. DP came to these conclusions on his own, as he was catching back up with the game. AND he even admits that he is changing his position here:

*Major backpeddle*, by no means do I think smarge and Zdenek are scum buddies. And I say this despite the previous post I made.

3) Once you finally acknowledged that your town read on fitz was BS, you STILL qualified it with "I don't want him lynched today", when the obvious position to have on someone you have a null read on is "I don't see his lynch, but I'm open to the idea". Which basically meant "I have to admit my town read is fail, but my position is still that of a town read".

The differences are so distinct its laughable.

You can be "happiest with an LMP lynch today" all you want, but it's only going to lead to disappointment.

I swear to God it's like you, fitz and smarg are competing for the lynch. Every time one of you does something scummy, the next one has to 1-up them.

[LimMePls]

Uh, no. I actually called him out on it before his read *magically* changed.

Show me where. I don't see it.

[LimMePls]

@Enigma: I don't always write off flavor, as some mods only provide fake names and not full fake roles. So fail flavor can be an indication of scum. However, the opposite is definitely not true. Good flavor in their claim does NOT indicate town.

I like the catchup, and I'm feeling fine with my somewhat townish view of Enigma.

[LimMePls]

Everyone who is not voting 1 of smarg, fitz, Zd is absolutely doing it wrong. Maryita x2, as per the VC isn't voting at all.

@Fate, Oopid, Enigma, Maryita, DDD, AH: Alliance? I propose we all do a

HOS:

on one of fitz, smarg, Zd. Then, whichever one gets the most votes, we all agree to vote them. Are you in?

I'll start:

HOS: fitz

.

[LimMePls]

@MOD:

COA hasn't posted in a week and his last post didn't announce V/LA. Can he go to straight to

jail

replacement, not passing Go and not collecting $200? If not, can we get the prod out so we can start the clock? Thanks!

[LimMePls]

Maryita, you didn't

HOS

Does this:

If I

had

to choose between fitz, z, and smarg, it would be smarg. I'll do an ISO of her later if I have time, but my last read of her was non-conclusive.

mean you are HOS'ing smarg? You never really even acknowledged the alliance post, so I want to be clear.

The HOS count is 1 fitz, 3 smarg, 2 Zd.

[LimMePls]

Maryita's unwillingness to cooperate with the alliance is suspect.

[LimMePls]

I'm not HOSing as I don't feel any of them are probable scum.

EBWOP: As is her finding none of {smarg, Zd, fitz} scummy. And her (her, right?) unwillingness to admit any of this until directly pushed over it, despite having obviously read the alliance post.

[LimMePls]

HOS: Zdenek

[LimMePls]

LMP is still scum, and now additionally for the fact that he ignored Mariyta's convenient change of heart.

Were you dropped on your head as a baby? Or did you eat paint chips or something?

These questions are serious.

[LimMePls]

At everyone who is calling me scummy for not wanting to follow an alliance I don't fully agree with, shame on you. How on earth is it town to want to lynch people you don't think are scum, just because people are telling you to??

Being unwilling to join the alliance =/= scum. Completely ignoring the offer, not placing a HOS, but only admitting that you are ignoring the offer and not going to participate when directly questioned on it, despite the fact that you had clearly seen the alliance post and its following discussion, makes you scum.

[LimMePls]

Unvote
Vote: smargaret

This needs to happen. I'm calling on you, members of the alliance.

[LimMePls]

^I told you all that fitz was scum. With smarg. This is so awesome its sick.

Lynch Smarg folks. Good things will happen.

[LimMePls]

1 DAY TO DEADLINE

Smarg lynch needs to happen. NOW!

[LimMePls]

I haven't forgotten about this game, but the wifi at my inlaws that I used to bum from a surrounding neighbor is no longer available. This will be my only post over the next few days.

@Mod: Gonna need V/LA until next monday. Chances are I could probably post once or twice more between now and then. If you feel you need to replace me, I understand

Noted.

@fitz: LOL.

Vote: fitz

[LimMePls]

I'm back in town, I will be catching up on this and all my other games ASAP. Thanks for the consideration while I traveled home for the holidays!

[LimMePls]

@fitz, could I have a concise version of your case against LMP? Bullet points please.

LMP, could you do this as well?

Not right now, I have a lot of games to catch up on coming off my V/LA. Look at my ISO, particularly the early stuff, I'm pretty sure I make my fitz arguments pretty clear. The essence of it is that Fitz is playing like someone who is trying to appear town, not someone who IS town.

[LimMePls]

^Yes.

[LimMePls]

^win

[LimMePls]

Unvote
Vote: Zdenek

When he flips scum I can haz my fitz lynch? I'll go back and quote the relevant reason if needed, but Zdenek made it pretty clear earlier in the thread that fitz was his buddy, IIRC.

[LimMePls]

Claim: Mac McAnally, Vanilla Townie

Who hasn't claimed that is a part of this massclaim?

Pretty sure DP and Oopid are scum. I'm willing to trust for now if he thinks me and fitz is town v town. I have a pretty gruesome track record of getting in arguments like the one I've had with fitz this game against fellow townies.

[LimMePls]

EBWOP: "trust nacho for now..."

[LimMePls]

^^BS excuse for not hiding subsequent nights. You thought you were a likely NK target N1? Hiders don't just hide to protect themselves, they are essentially copping their targets too. This is a load of BS.

@oopid: The wall-o-defense buddying to me was the start of it. The further buddying and POE pretty much is the rest of it.

Nice catch Fate. No way DP hid behind Oopid and then said "I was thinking you were town..." implying that he may not be sure. I'm pretty sure that DP is either going for the "no way I openly say I hid behind my buddy" angle to try and pseudo-clear Oopid, or is trying to make him scummy by association.

[LimMePls]

@Oopid: The obvious buddying? The sheeping that "isn't sheeping"? POE means that with the shrinking number of players in the game, there are only so many town reads I can have. I haven't brought this up until now because the POE requires time. DUR.

[LimMePls]

@Oopid...not as adament as I was D1-2 but I would probably still be up for your lynch.

This is a fascinating development.

[LimMePls]

LMP, no reply to my queries?

Pretty much said all I've got to say on this matter.

[LimMePls]

^^YES PLZ!

[LimMePls]

Fitz, you're still barking up the wrong tree. You're going to feel pretty foolish in end game when you realize that you did nothing this game but scream that I'm scum and you were wrong.

[LimMePls]

Vanilla cop is scummy. See this game: STAR WARS specifically Ooba's role.

[LimMePls]

What flavor are you asking for?

[LimMePls]

Uhm, no it wasn't, I pointed out that in my experience (sample size of 1) Vanilla Cop is a scummy role.

I dunno what you want Fate. I'm VT.

[LimMePls]

LOL.

I'm not scum.

[LimMePls]

Vote: DDD

That claim is BULLSHIT.

[LimMePls]

Pfft, so I'm not vanilla town, that doesn't mean I'm scum. I didn't claim my role because it looks scummy as fuck but I'm the reason there's no role information attached to Fate; I'm a town-aligned Janitor who if they successfully "clean" a kill gets a vig kill that works only on other Fae which leads me to assume one or both of the remaining scum are Fae.

DavidParker is probably scum;

role-blocked my ass

and we're back to LMP/Fitz being his partner.

@DDD...the bold part of your quote above is what I misread as you saying you were blocked. So are you saying you can vig now? And WTH is "Fae" stand for?

At LMP...why is DDD more scum than DP and why would townhider DP hide behind a ~confirmed town person [Fate] who was very likely the nk? What good would having townDP die along with townFate do? And DP didn't give any indication of who he was going to hide behind anyway so if he was town and hid behind scum...we would have been left guessing.

DP is most likely scum too. DDD lied in massclaim though, so no shitty ass "I'm a janitor" is going to excuse him. Why on earth would you lie about that role anyways? That is the lamest shit I've ever seen.

[LimMePls]

I want EVERYONE TO ACKNOWLEDGE that they will lynch DP if he is alive and I am dead tomorrow and etc.

I am 100% fine with lynching DP first.

[LimMePls]

^^This.

Also frustrating considering how long the nights last (and the fact that we aren't told how long they are going to last).

[LimMePls]

Spyrex already wrote the code for this. Even if he didn't, it's pretty obv.

Vote: DP

[LimMePls]

How do we know the seductress is not a roleblocker?

My vote stays, although fitz' "last night's vote was achohol induced" makes me wonder.

[LimMePls]

I'm not scum. I will flip hider.

I have hid behind Fate and Spyrex as instructed but not died, we have yet to see a roleblocker flip so it's pretty clear what has occurred to me. I understand you guys have no reason to believe in the presence of a roleblocker or my claim, but you probably shouldn't rush through lylo like this.

I'm just really glad it's oopid who hasn't voted for me yet since he is confirmed town, one of you two is scum.

Why wouldn't they have blocked Spyrex and killed Fate, knowing that you were hiding behind Fate and get 2 for the price of 1?

[LimMePls]

Because you are making an excuse to try and negate your own responsibility for your posting. I thought this would go without saying.

[LimMePls]

How do we know the seductress is not a roleblocker?

How do we know the seductress is not a roleblocker?

How do we know the seductress is not a roleblocker?

How do we know the seductress is not a roleblocker?

How do we know the seductress is not a roleblocker?

[LimMePls]

Grr...

While I'm extremely leery about DP continually claiming to be RBed, it is true that technically there has been no straight-up roleblocker flip. The ability would fit nicely under seductress, but again, no definitive way to prove it.

I'll refrain from voting for now. When I get more time I'll go back over the thread to see what I can dig up on the other two candidates.

What role is a Businessman? It looks like the scum PRs aren't clearly named. I believe pretty strongly that seductress is roleblocker. It makes perfect sense flavor wise that you "seduce" your target, and they "spend the night" with you. It could even be some form of JK.

@HF: re COA/Nacho: Scum buddying town. Ever heard of it?
re DDD: Scum buddying town. Ever heard of it? Particularly true in this case, since I had expressed a town read of DDD.

[LimMePls]

Can we please swing DP and move on to congratulating SpyreX for replacing into this game and breaking it open for us?

[LimMePls]

Sorry, I've been active in other games just not here;

no excuse really.

LYNCH MODE ACTIVATE!

[LimMePls]

You want a case? Here's my case:

Claim: Anastasia Luccio, Hider

Next Claim: HavinFitz

Hid with Oopid Night 1.

Did not hide subsequent nights.

Hence, oopid is town.

DID NOT HIDE SUBSEQUENT NIGHTS! What a load of BS! Add on that once he was told to prove his role, magically he's being roleblocked every night.

Here's the cherry on top of my case:

Wingame()
Lynch(DDD)
If (DP.Alive = True)
{
Lynch(DP)
}
Else {
Lynch(Fitz)
}
Modflavor(TownWin)

Ultra-confirm vote: DavidParker

Can we please run Wingame()?

[LimMePls]

And you have to be the hammer? Why?

[LimMePls]

OOPID GET IN HERE! GOOD LORD!

[LimMePls]

Because if you claim you hid on multiple nights, you have to state who you hid behind, which means you either have to "confirm" a bunch of townies, or link yourself to your buddies (when they flip and you aren't dead, you get auto-lynched).

[LimMePls]

Yes, hiding behind the same player over and over would be stupid. BUT DYING HIDING BEHIND SCUM IS AWESOME! Simply breadcrumb who you are going to hide behind, and then when you die, watch town lynch the person you hid behind. Look in my wiki at LOTR mafia in my ISO for a similar use (I was a weak-Doc, but the concept is the same). PLUS YOU GET INNOCENTS ON PEOPLE YOU HIDE BEHIND WHEN YOU DON'T DIE! Choosing to not hide is ridiculous, but not necessarily scummy. Combining it with "oh noes, I'm getting RB'ed" when told to prove your hiding makes the whole thing obviously scummy.

[LimMePls]

1) Why would they block YOU the night Fate died, instead of SpyreX who was MUCH more dangerous. I understand you contend now that they blocked you last night so that they could set you up for a lynch, but why would they allow SpyreX that extra night of VT copping when they could have gotten you killed along with Fate AND not allowed SpyreX to get another investigation. ESPECIALLY when SpyreX was a VT cop and one of the scum claimed VT and was lying. No way they block you and let SpyreX get another night.
2) Prior to you claiming, you magically chose to "not hide", while only AFTER claiming when the town asked you to prove your role were you mysteriously getting roleblocked. Its a combination of the two that makes it far more likely that you are lying.

Your story doesn't wash. Any 1 of the circumstances by itself would be unlikely but not daming. All of them together make it almost certain you are lying scum
.

@fitz: That may be circumstantial evidence further backing up my position, but I'm not a flavor expert on the theme, so I have no idea whether this is true or not.

[LimMePls]

WOOT!

[LimMePls]

Town got their asses massively saved by PRs. On straight play, we woulda been wrecked. GJ to Fate and SpyreX for taking us from perfect defeat to a victory.

Thanks for running the game mod!

[LimMePls]

I almost rage-snapped from the grave when DP didn't get power lynched (and I didn't say anything the day before because I thought YOU KNEW) but:

You don't block a hider. Come on guys. SHEESH.

And manipulating the flips, normally, is a huge scum swing. Just think if I got run up said I was a cop and flipped vanilla.

There would be chaos.

I know right. You even wrote the pseudo code for it, but I couldn't get them to run Wingame() with me. *shrug*

This setup seems to favor the town, but probably not by much.

@TBM: I don't know how others feel about this, but I'd prefer a bit more info from you during the game, mostly day and night deadlines in the vote counts/lynch scenes. I had a lot of fun, thanks for running the game for us!