Objection Redux - It's all over bar the shouting!

[Rhinox]

"Rhinox: Why UK over Jahudo?" - I wonder if my scum read on jahudo might be skewed by his overall lack of activity, which is unusual for jahudo regardless of alignment. UK has been active, and scummier, IMO.

"Cut: Why place m_o on your scumlist if voting him is conditional on VasudeVa's flip? For that matter, why not VasudeVote?" - No vasudevote because I'm still trying to determine if there really is a case there or if Fate just handed VV a shovel and VV panicked and dug himself into an inescapeable hole, and too many people were too content to watch him get buried. And yeah I guess you're right that MO doesn't really fit on a "scum list". Like I said I am/was probably biased seeing MO keep repeating over and over that I was scum for posting less than VV even though VV was scummier only because he's posted more, but thinking about it more I realized it doesn't make sense for scum MO to derail a wagon on a town VV. So I guess I just wanted to include it in the tl;dr and portray my thoughts that if VV is scum especially a scum PR, then MO looks like a solid lynch choice, but scum MO/town VV would just be weird.

[magnus_orion]

@AGM: *sigh* look I'll do a diagram for you

Graph:
BAD (DO NOT WANT)
Persons.... Information concerning them
A....
B....................................
C............
D.......
E..........

GOOD (DO WANT)
Persons.... Information concerning them
A...................
B...............
C....................
D.................
E..................

Notice how if the first (Bad) graph, there is a disproportionate amount of information concerning player B. Player B will as a result appear more scummy to players.
However, in the second (good) graph, there is a roughly even distribution (I assume actual evenness to be nearly impossible in practice), this is good. Since there is no dis proportionality, the effects of mutual increase in information will cancel. If one "dot" more of information is added to every player on the second graph, it continues to be a "good" graph.

[magnus_orion]

oh yeah and graphs 1 and 2 are both general. The letters could be replaced with any arbitrary player names.

[AlmasterGM]

I understand, but I do not agree that if B from the "bad" graph posts more he is automatically scummier. If he was making lots of content-filled posts that were very protown, I think he would appear protown. I think this is especially true given the sitemeta against lurking.

As a question to reinforce the above statement, if more posts --> more scummy things to find, why isn't Fate (the person who has posted the most BY FAR in this game) currently your top scum read?

Also, if you think equalized posting is key to developing fair scum reads, why are you only hounding Rhinox for not posting and not players like Papa Zito (who are mostly noise / nonsense), Vezok, and others?

Also also, how is this posting equalization even possible? Doesn't variations in posting styles always mean there will always be outliers, and these people will always appear scummier than their less aggressive counterparts?

[Rhinox]

"@"Why does it matter?": Just wanted to verify and make note of meta connections or lack thereof based on your comments. Its something to keep in mind when comparing what you think about a specific statement compared to what I think."

alright, so... does that mean you don't agree with UK being scummy then? what do you think about the points I brought up?

[Papa Zito]

Great. VV needs to be lynched but OH GOD A SHINY and off you go.

If the VV wagon isn't happening anymore then
UNVOTE: Vi
VOTE: UK

[AlmasterGM]

^ oh no you don't.

[AlmasterGM]

get back here and be productive.

[Papa Zito]

I am contributing to an excellent wagon.

[magnus_orion]

didn't I address a lot of that already? I've called PZ, vezok scummy. But this isn't the only consideration I make. Its just a major one when I was considering rhinox vs. VV.
This isn't a hard and fast rule, there are such things as outliers, and people whose play is so generally pro-town (or simply so aggressive) that they can post a whole lot and not appear scummy (or simply not be attacked for it). There is a dependency on the player and their content/style.
This is just something I keep in mind when the game becomes hyper-focused around certain individuals. When I do ask for more information, I just generally hope that some of it will achieve a more stable equilibrium.
@PZ: wait, what?

alright, so... does that mean you don't agree with UK being scummy then? what do you think about the points I brought up?

I don't agree, but that's because I just got a town read on UK for other reasons. TBH I'm less concerned with what your case means for UK and more concerned with what it means for you. But I should REALLY be working on homework right now, so... that'll have to wait til I have more time.

preview edit: @PZ: wait, wait, what?

[Papa Zito]

preview edit: @PZ: wait, wait, what?

Wait wait what what?

[Faraday]

Vote count 1.9

VasudeVa (3)

Sociopath,, Ellibereth, SpyreX

Fate (1)

Vi

Rhinox (2)

GammaGooey, Magnus_orion

Vezokpiraka (1)

Jahudo

AlmasterGM (1)

VasudeVa

magnus_orion (4)

AlmasterGM, Fate, UncertainKitten, Vezokpiraka

UncertainKitten (2)

Rhinox, Papa Zito

Not voting: (0)

No one

With 14 alive it takes 8 to lynch.

Deadline is December 7th at 1pm GMT
Any mistakes in the VC point 'em out and all that.

[Vi]

First sentence - The comparison here is WITH VASUDEVA. I think it has been established that m_o looks sketchy, but why him over the person you were previously gung-ho for?

I don't know. I admit, I have not actually compared the cases side by side. I am just voting for magnus because he has been more scummy more recently. I SHOULD do a comparative analysis, but that will come later. Right now, I am more interested in seeing where this goes and giving myself more stuff to compare with.

This isn't a math question, no comparative analysis necessary. There were lots of people on VasudeVa (who you say is STILL hyperscummy) and he was getting lynched in 48 hours on my guarantee. You switched off of THAT GUY... why.

Who are your candidates for lynching Today, and are they set in stone?

Along those lines, I'm really not all that fond of the m_o wagon at this point. What do you think of rejoining the VasudeVa wagon?
Same question to

Papa Zito

.

[Papa Zito]

Along those lines, I'm really not all that fond of the m_o wagon at this point. What do you think of rejoining the VasudeVa wagon?
Same question to

Papa Zito

.

Er. I think I just mentioned that VV needs roping. But it seems everyone has twitched off in different directions.

[SpyreX]

Jesus what happened in here?

FATE. FATTEEEE.

Get back on VV. OR IF THAT IS TOO COOL Vezok could eat firey death. Jesus.

M_o actually reads like that guy who tries to say "I really like you" but actually blurts out the summoning ritual for Cthulhu and then pees his pants and runs away.

[Vi]

M_o actually reads like that guy who tries to say "I really like you" but actually blurts out the summoning ritual for Cthulhu and then pees his pants and runs away.

Either you're just making stuff up or you have some zetta WEIRD life experiences. Regardless, your Christmas present is going to be a few free trips to some nice people who wear shiny white coats.~

@Papa Zito: So what?

[SpyreX]

Can't it be both?

Is it bad that watching that wagon disperse makes me want it back even MORE?

And, moreso, that if it wasn't VV which it should be I'd be pioneering mr softclaim mcjumper over the usual suspects?

[Papa Zito]

@Papa Zito: So what?

So what what? Yes I'll help lynch VV.

[UncertainKitten]

Oh, yay, a wall of fail. So far I only saw the vote at the end. I can't WAIT to rip this apart ^-^.

And Vi, I calls em as I sees them. Rhinox has done a whole lot of nothing.

So your first paragraph is a fence sit...
So your second paragraph is a fence sit...
So your third paragraph, oh, wait, you FINALLY produced content. Holy shit, I need to give you a medal or something!
Your fourth paragraph is weak, but whatev.


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHHAHAHA!
HAAAAAAAAAAHAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

You've already started this in the most idiotic fucking way possible~!
First, I *always* vote the mod, and you can look through my recent history to see such. Secondly, I have a meta example of protecting a good player from an early D1 bandwagon. So, once again, you're a fucking idiot ^-^.

Iso 3: Because I feel keeping her alive is of more value regardless of her alignment. She still has to pretend to help town, and she's good at it, were she scum.

See response to iso 2. You're making is blatantly obvious you are searching for padding Rhinox. Why?

"Out of nowhere"? Wow, Rhinox is a fucking idiot. Fate actually posted a bulleted point list which actually gave his points some order, which they were sorely lacking. I honestly couldn't tell what he was saying before.

It's pretty fucking obvious you're trying to bullshit a case at this point. I am VERY fine with a Rhinox lynch now.

...you even noticed the bulleted list, and...wait...what? This...this doesn't even make sense? I...there...there are no words for how utterly dicktarded your case is. You are a stupid motherfucker. There's no other way to put it.

tl;dr: Rhinox is a scummy ass idiot.

(Full disclosure. The prior segment with me responding to Rhinox was a lot less...controlled, involved a lot of caps, and imprecations. However, I figured that would seem a little too unreasonable and not allow me to highlight just how obviously Rhinox is faking it. I know what's there now isn't very polite but fuck it, you have to be pretty stupid scum to post something as idiotic as that wall)

I don't even know what to say about your meanderings around m_o.

UK has been active, and scummier, IMO.

More of the classic quanity over quality scum POV.

...and PZ further proves he's scum.

THIS IS HILARIOUS.

Hmm, well, Rhinox and Papa Zito are my new favorites for scum. Town has no reason to fake a case, and Rhinox did. It's very obvious. Papa Zito has been effectively active lurking and doing nothing of value. Between m_o and VV...well...I WANT to say m_o is scummier because, well, it's my case. But...I think, objectively, VV wins out.

So, that said,

Unvote, Vote VV

HoS: Rhinox

HoS: Papa Zito

FoS: magnus_orion

I would be fine lynching anyone in this list.

[SpyreX]

Deep breaths.

What about vezo, eh? EH?

[UncertainKitten]

I...THERE CAN'T BE THAT MANY SCUM!!!

/me cries

Vezok is pretty low priority, compared to the ones I've listed.

[SpyreX]

Of the power four m_o is my most definite bet for town.

Rhinox needs more data before I can tell if its just post words of nothing OR if there's method in that madness. (although, a VV scum flip would do just the same)

Zito just needs more activity before he falls out.

VV is dead

[Jahudo]

I'm going to be the contrarian again and say I do not like the magnus wagon.

M_O comes across as not thinking the VV case is a great decision for day 1. That would lead someone to wanting a prolonged day for more things to develop, like watching another person of interest (Rhinox). I think he's been consistent in wanting to either confirm or drop his suspicions on Rhinox as his high priority.

He also comes across as not thinking the VV case is a terrible decision. That explains why he would not actively defend VV, either to "save VV" or to artificially boost Rhinox's suspect status before there are more Rhinox things to talk about. He claimed to like some of the points on VV but did not seem to think it was good enough to end the day yet. Why defend someone that may be a #2, #3, #4 suspect? (@M_O: Was your VV read ever ranked?)

I do not see a problem with him not pushing on Rhinox harder for a variety of reasons. Rhinox was V/LA, M_O says he generally likes long days, Rhinox hadn't said much to comment on.

[SocioPath]

I will only vote for VV/Rhino/Mango for the remainder of today.
So spin that wheel and decide who shall burn.

[Vi]

<stuff>

WE NEED MORE

VESPENE GAS

COMMENTARY ON PEOPLE WHO ARE GOING TO BE LYNCHED

Also check Papa Zito out here.
*He misses most of the VV buildup, so he didn't actually say anything to justify VV's lynch,
*volunteers to hammer,
*pushes the hammer again after my first "I'm catching up; go away" post, and yet
*is willing to meander away for someone else in spite of repeated goading to rejoin the VasudeVa wagon.
EXTREME PRO-TOWN BEHAVIOR.
AlmasterGM isn't far behind him in this train of thought.

I really want to put down a good vote but there are SO MANY (GOOD) PEOPLE TO CHOOSE FROM.