Objection Redux - It's all over bar the shouting!

[magnus_orion]

M_o actually reads like that guy who tries to say "I really like you" but actually blurts out the summoning ritual for Cthulhu and then pees his pants and runs away.

O_O
...

I-I um... well er... ah...
...
uh...


...sure.

@M_O: Was your VV read ever ranked?

I haven't been ranking my reads in this game. Except I think I said Rhinox was number 1 scum read at one point. Other than that, no they haven't been. But that's basically the idea I've been trying to get across, what with the whole preference business.

@PZ: what justification do you see in the UK case?
@ rhinox: How much of the UK case do you believe is valid/worth considering?
I look forward to your response to UK's criticisms, as well.

@vezok: reads? Plz?

[Jahudo]

Vi, you mentioned Gamma back [url=http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 7#p2644747]here[url], which sounded like you were going to spend more time on him. Was that just initial vibes that went away or are you still trying to put your finger on it?

On the subject of Papa Zito, it is worth asking why he isn't voting VV. Someone he was ready to hammer.

@PZ: If you prefer VV today and don't like that his wagon got smaller, doesn't switching to UK and making that a more viable wagon invite more segmentation? So you could be bringing more people off the VV wagon while you wish the opposite. I don't know how you are rationalizing this since you could still argue UK is scummy while keeping your vote on VV and making him tied for largest wagon.

[Faraday]

Vote count 1.10

VasudeVa (4)

Sociopath,, Ellibereth, SpyreX, UncertainKitten

Fate (1)

Vi

Rhinox (2)

GammaGooey, Magnus_orion

Vezokpiraka (1)

Jahudo

AlmasterGM (1)

VasudeVa

magnus_orion (3)

AlmasterGM, Fate,Vezokpiraka

UncertainKitten (2)

Rhinox, Papa Zito

Not voting: (0)

No one

With 14 alive it takes 8 to lynch.

Deadline is December 7th at 1pm GMT
Any mistakes in the VC point 'em out and all that.

[Gammagooey]

Oh hey everyone's back from Thanksgiving shenanigans.

I agree with Jahudo and SpyreX about magnus for the most part, and although his fencesitting is Irritating I can see it coming from town pretty easily.

VV and Rhinox's stuff is a LOT harder to see as coming from town- Rhinox's case on UK is pretty bad with the exception of the stuff about Vi not being the lynch d1, and even that isn't GOOD because of his saying that Vi was too fun to lynch d1 (even though apparently he says it was a jokey acknowledgement of the wagon accompanied by a serious vote on vezok??). Then you have the last part of his post where he lists FIVE people, says that two of them are prob town despite lurking +little content for Hurr meta, then says the other 3 are neutral And apparently not remembering me from Mafia Reverb despite me going after him from pretty much the moment I replaced in.

MEANWHILE, I Still haven't seen an explanation for Rhinox dropping off VV's scumreads Or his Rhinox vote post not matching up with his explaining the vote post And his cases sucked AND his wagon apparently fell apart despite a VANILLA TOWNIE CLAIM?

And of course Rhino has the nice little fencesit on VV in his wall post while saying he's town not for HIS actions but for a lack of a counterwagon (oh hey look what just sprung up) while VV has stopped mentioning Rhinox altogether.

VV+Rhino. Need a thousand deaths.

Vote: VasudeVa

Before I forget
Vi- Why are you STILL voting Fate?

[Fate]

WHAT THE FUCK ARE THESE UK VOTES?

EXTRA READS HAVE BEEN GENERATED. VV DEATH IS BACK ON
VOTE: VV

[UncertainKitten]

Desperate scum, Fate. That's all ^-^.

[Fate]

But

consider me LA

not the normal sort of LA where I can't get on often, but the emotionally drained LA where... well you know. Let's just say I wasn't on a plane to paradise, it was to hell, but I went anyway because I had to.

Now give me some time to get back to my old self.

In the meantime please just hammer VV. IF he flips scum it might just make me feel better about myself.

[Vi]

I really want to put down a good vote but there are SO MANY (GOOD) PEOPLE TO CHOOSE FROM.

Totally from my most recent post, Gammagooey.

also

There are still a few loose ends, though - for one thing, VasudeVanHalen is noticeably absent right now.

also

Intent to hammer, 48 hours.

13 hours remain, and conveniently the time listed is more or less when I'm going to get back tonight.

[VasudeVa]

Hey there. Soo, I'm V/LA due to some very unexpected internet related stuff at home. At the moment, I dropped by a friend's house to post this in all my games.

---

In the meantime, I'll just give a final list of the players through this game with the quick skim I got today. I'm still Town, and quite frankly, I don't understand WHY I'm public enemy number one in this game when I have tried the best I can to defend myself. Quite frankly, Fate's case is BULLSHIT and the

only thing

that the other people are apparently paying attention to is the Rhinox vote which is NOT D1 lynch worthy in itself. (Seriously, what the fuck was wrong with that anyway? It was basically 'SWITCHING YOUR VOTE IS SCUMMY'. That's just ultra-tarded.)

Sooo, Here's a quick analysis of random players.

Fate: Scum -> Relying on his RAGEMAN meta whilst contradicting various stances on people EVERYWHERE. I do not understand why the hell his play is excused in a playerlist like this.
In fact, his play here can duely be summarized:

<Statement X>

STATEMENT X IS SCUMMY.

<Statement Y, wherein 'Y' is a statement about 'X' or Player A>

STATEMENT Y IS SCUMMY, NEVER MIND WHAT I SAID ABOUT PLAYER A OR STATEMENT X.

Ultra scum. Vig plx.

2. Spy -> Contrary to what I said, I think I'm seeing SpyTown now. He's not tunneling solely on me this time, but is actively looking for others too with some good tidbits on players regularly. I like SpyTown here too.

3. Vezok -> Always sheeps Fate. Null. Dislike the softclaim, but not really alignment indicative.

4. AlmGM -> I liked his answer to my case on him. It was quite logically sound, with a few good points on how to deal with my meta, not that I agree with it but at least I'm seeing how he operates. Plus, I've always found wagon derailers Town-ish anyway. His push on magnus was pretty good because m_o really is deliberately fencesitting on me.

5. Socio -> I like to call this guy LurkerFate. Nigh unreadable, excellent scum game, never gets nightkilled due to unhelpfulness. If you don't vig Fate, please vig him.

6. UK -> I disliked her earlier 'Oh I don't want to vote Vas, I've read the case but plz give summary.' to -> 'Oh cool. Vote: Vas'. I've been questioning her at some point and she was showing signs that she was just wagonhopping without understanding the case. Check out me Vs. UK at page 10. I had to be very specific with my questions before she started answering well...and she had to time off for a while, presumably to reread the stuff and answer. Not indicative of someone intelligently wagonhopping.

7. Vi -> 'I can't dislike this wagon, Hammer in 48'. I dislike this, not indicative of Town-Vi. Town-Vi knows how to slog over bullshit. The case on me is pure bullshit, and her comments feel like she's playing Pontius Pilate to get ready for my flip. (The 'I can't bring myself to dislike Vas-Wagon' statement, for one. Sounds like a cop-off.). Town-Vi also makes her own reads, via her own scumhunting. I remember Town-Vi debunking shit cases in one post. Vi in this game, however, feels like she's commenting from the background and is going with the flow without looking like going with the flow. Don't like. I'd be very wary of her.

8. m_o -> I don't know what to say about him, honestly. He seems very wary on taking a stance with me. I've already claimed VT and he was still pushing for Rhinox, a very unpopular player. I'm not sure what was scummy about what Rhinox did, but his thickheadedness reads Townish to me. I think that he's one who saw Fate's BS and didn't want to ride the wave. Going against the popular is very Townish to me, plus I found his WIFOM-selfmeta townish. WIFOM-selfmeta is really not something scum would just randomly say(I got this idea watching mith in /inv11.). If you lie with WIFOM-selfmeta and someone asks you to show it via links, you're fucked.

---

That's it for now. I'll be around for a short while, to catch up to my other games and announce indefinite V/LA.

Also, I'd like everyone voting me/intending to vote for me to actually give their OWN reasons to why they want me dead. No, no fucking bandwagon shit, no fucking 'I don't like this' without explanations. I want clear reasons with links, quotes AND analysis.

YOU HEAR ME. I WANT THEM.

[VasudeVa]

PS. Leaving now.

If Vi actually does hammer without answering the last part of ^^, watch out for her.

[UncertainKitten]

You answer first:

I had to be very specific with my questions before she started answering well...and she had to time off for a while, presumably to reread the stuff and answer. Not indicative of someone intelligently wagonhopping.

This is self contradictory as all hell. What are you *actually* saying here?

[UncertainKitten]

Actually, my answer doesn't depend on yours so I should answer anyway, but I still want you to answer my question.

For me, you've been doing all you can to change the facts of various situations to suit the *current* accusation Fate has against you. You'll disregard earlier defenses as long as you can defeat the *now*...and you'll contradict yourself all the way there. That's a pretty damn scummy mindset. You care less about finding scum and more about saving your ass and saying whatever you can to do it.

Add to that several not-town statements you've made, such as the one with not being scum with Vi, or maybe the one about how "IF FATE STARTS GAMBITTING I WANT HIM DEAD" with SEVERAL provisions implying you'd still think he was town, meaning you are looking for JUSTIFIABLE lynches and NOT scum lynches...and the fact that all throughout today it's been more about saving your ass than actually catching scum...yeah, you're a pretty good candidate for lynchings ^-^.

Also, where's Rhinox in your wall? And the other 4 players you're missing?

[Papa Zito]

Hmm, well, Rhinox and Papa Zito are my new favorites for scum.

UncertainKitten (2)

Rhinox, Papa Zito

lulz

Also check Papa Zito out here.

Hey baby.

Oh wait, you're complaining.

*He misses most of the VV buildup, so he didn't actually say anything to justify VV's lynch,

OBJECTION!

*bangs desk*

My words are--I haven't had time to sit through the onslaught of hate and propaganda and weigh whether I like the VasudeVa wagon.

+

I'm not superhyped that VasudeVasudeVasudeVasudeVasudeVaVasudeVa will flip scum but the chance of him leaving the game via means other than lynch is fairly minimal;

---

*volunteers to hammer,

OBJECTION!

*dramatic finger point*

Intent to hammer, 48 hours.

---

*pushes the hammer again after my first "I'm catching up; go away" post,

OBJECTION!

*hands-on-hips stance*

Hey you, Pikachu. When I said 48 hours to hammer, I meant hammer.

---

*is willing to meander away for someone else in spite of repeated goading to rejoin the VasudeVa wagon.

OBJECTION!

*hand waving at paper thing*

Fate (1) Vi

---

@PZ: what justification do you see in the UK case?

I see UK doing a lot of taking potshots at people without actually pushing anyone or trying to generate reads. She's also doing some rather opportunistic wagon-hopping that I find rather frothy. There's also a bit of buddybuddying going on.
---

@PZ: If you prefer VV today and don't like that his wagon got smaller, doesn't switching to UK and making that a more viable wagon invite more segmentation?

No. Momentum had rather quickly shifted over to a magnus wagon. My vote on VV wouldn't have done anything.

However, now it's shifted back. So.

UNVOTE: UncertainKitten
VOTE: VasudeVa

[UncertainKitten]

@PZ: Yes, because OBVIOUSLY people voting me can't POSSIBLY be scum. Thank you SO MUCH for making me see the error of my ways. Clearly I must NEVER accuse ANYONE voting me, EVER! That would just be OMGUS, and NO ONE likes OMGUS :V.

Yeah, no, you've been scummy since page three and Rhinox's wall of fail was about the scummiest thing I've seen since m_o's scummy ass statement.

...are you seriously accusing me of this?

I see UK doing a lot of taking potshots at people without actually pushing anyone or trying to generate reads. She's also doing some rather opportunistic wagon-hopping that I find rather frothy. There's also a bit of buddybuddying going on.

...you're...YOU ARE GUILTY OF MOST OF THIS YOURSELF, YOU BLOODY FUCKING IDIOT!

[UncertainKitten]

(Not to mention it's entirely untrue, but the hypocrisy sticks out MORE)

[UncertainKitten]

In fact, elaborate your stupid ass theory, PZ.

When have I wagon hopped?
Where have I buddied in a way that benefits scum?
Where have I "taken pot shots without actually pushing anyone"?

You know, especially since I was pushing you at first, and if Fate hadn't gotten to it first, while I was, you know, fucking SLEEPING, I'd have pushed m_o, and still helped that wagon proceed.

Am I apparently not allowed to actually see the merit of a well explained case? Is it somehow scummy to understand that occasionally, just OCCASIONALLY, another player has a point?

[UncertainKitten]

EBWOP: And despite not being the initial push, I helped the m_o wagon proceed.

[vezokpiraka]

unvote
vote VV

Yeah this is the superior wagon. We can think about Magnus tomorrow.

[Gammagooey]

Viiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii way to miss the point.

I know that you said you couldn't decide on who of the good votes to go with.

But you're still voting Fate instead of doing Any of them and I would think a no vote is better than a bad vote.

[Papa Zito]

@PZ: Yes, because OBVIOUSLY people voting me can't POSSIBLY be scum. Thank you SO MUCH for making me see the error of my ways. Clearly I must NEVER accuse ANYONE voting me, EVER! That would just be OMGUS, and NO ONE likes OMGUS :V.

Your two picks for scum are the two people voting you. You can throw all the temper tantrums you want, but it's just that simple.

YOU BLOODY FUCKING IDIOT!

I expect your apology for this in your next post.

elaborate

Sure.

1. You initially insist that I need to die. Apparently asking SocioPath a question is a first-rate offence. However, once there's a momentum shift to VV, you jump to that wagon. Then after several posts ranting about how VV (and I) are really scummy, you jump to the magnus wagon without hesitation. And, of course, once VV takes off again you jump back to that one.
2. You've been pretty blatantly following Fate's lead all game. How is it scummy? You're waterskiing along in his wake, which conveniently allows you to deflect blame later if whoever you're happening to be wagoning at the time turns up town.
3. Your first "real" vote was for me, but you never asked me anything. Instead you parked your vote and randomly barked about my frothiness. Your later VV wagon jump was particularly awkward because you were pinging Fate about things instead of VV himself. You never bother asking VV anything. This pattern holds true for magnus, and of course VV again.

Basically you're playing an incredibly reactionary game, and I find all this more likely coming from scum than town.

[UncertainKitten]

Your two picks for scum are the two people voting you. You can throw all the temper tantrums you want, but it's just that simple.

That's nice and all, but I fail to see how that does ANYTHING to prove me wrong. It's just some dumbass rhetoric that has no founding in reality. My cases ARE still valid, regardless of who the players in question are currently voting.

You can misrepresent all the facts you want, but it's just that simple.

Scumass.

Anyway, I'm sorry that you're a bloody fucking idiot ^-^, though I can't imagine that's really my fault...

1. MISREP! Fate had to represent his case in a way that made sense. Once he did, we STILL discussed it, and holy shit, he convinced me! OBVIOUSLY people can NEVER be convinced of wagons other than their own. So I don't want this bullshit about momentum shifts. I sussed that out, you bullshit monger.
As for mango, I ALSO sussed that out on my own, and EVEN PROVIDED REASONING in my voting post. It wasn't a fucking wagon hop, it was mango being a fucking scumass. So, again, misrep.
Now, I never dropped my suspicion of VV, so I really don't see why "hopping back" to that wagon is AT ALL SCUMMY.

2. BULLSHIT! You AND m_o were my OWN FUCKING THINKING! Fate's had some good points, but it's HARDLY been the degree of following you imply.

3. Possibly a fair point, but I really have no questions for you scumasses. You've made it so BLATANTLY OBVIOUS you are scum, what is there to ask?

So shut the fuck up and patiently await your lynch, you misrepresenting pile of assholes.

[UncertainKitten]

EBWOP: Rather, the wagons they themselves come up with, in point one.

[UncertainKitten]

Now then, if you'll excuse me I have work to do, so I unfortunately won't be able to rage at whatever idiocy you come up with next. I'm sure this disappoints you greatly ^-^.

[Faraday]

---- A Lynch has been achieved----Consider the thread locked, DO NOT post.

Vote count 1.11

VasudeVa (8)

Sociopath,, Ellibereth, SpyreX, UncertainKitten, GammaGooey, Fate, Papa Zito, vezokpiraka

Fate (1)

Vi

Rhinox (1)

Magnus_orion

Vezokpiraka (1)

Jahudo

AlmasterGM (1)

VasudeVa

magnus_orion (1)

AlmasterGM

UncertainKitten (1)

Rhinox

Not voting: (0)

No one

With 14 alive it takes 8 to lynch.

Deadline is December 7th at 1pm GMT
Any mistakes in the VC point 'em out and all that.

[Faraday]

Be courteous to your fellow player. This is just a game - please don't bring personal grudges into the game. Try and keep it civil. If you cross 'the line' I'll step in. Said line will be judged by me.

Seriously, read the rules people. The level of personal attacks in absolutely unacceptable. Keep it civil or I'll force-replace you.