Mini 1090: Of Rogues and Curses ~ Game Over

[VP Baltar]

there is a distinction between being leery of me and thinking i'm scummy, and while players often conflate the two in their writing i think tanstalas was/is aware of it. i don't like that attack on him.

Is this directed at me or tanstalas?

[Zorblag]

My experience with mothrax (one game in which I was scum and he was town) was that I found him pretty attackable for many of the things that he did. I'm inclined to think that he plays a somewhat scummy game by default. He needs to do a bit more but I'll wait till he's had a chance to deliver the post he promised before judging too much.

@Exe, are you familiar with tanstalas's play? If so do you think that it's par for the course? Have you got any opinions of gandlaf5166 outside a joke reaction to his day cop claim at the start of the game?

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Uite]

but I ask someone a question, I expect them to answer it. If someone answers it in their stead, that muddies things up and makes it less useful.

To speed things up, I'll answer the

non-contestable

points for Troll.

[etc.]

Still, it matters to me whose words they're written in. What you've done now is give me information about you, instead of information about him.

And of course I'm flattered by the comparison to Vi, but I think it's unfair. I don't know enough about his playstyle,

and I assume he doesn't about mine,

to be able to make such a comparison. Therefore the accusation looks unfounded to me, and I think everyone can agree that unfounded accusations are scummy.

Well, it is/was our first times playing with Troll, and we were latching on to the same reasons, and I was scum in that game, so etc.
And from what I've seen of you, so far I don't think you're a whole lot different from me tbh.

One can further argue that playstyle doesn't have much to do with it, but etc.

I would contest that it does, at least in this case. I like to question when I see something worth questioning, to help me understand what's going on. That's very different from trying to make someone look suspicious, which is what you accused me of.

@Uite, great news! I'm now ready to cast what you think are real votes. My votes prior to this have been real and were cast for a reason but as others have said we can talk about that later.

Yeah, I should probably warn you guys, I tend to take things very literally.

**edit** you answered that while I was getting this post finished; it looks like my take was largely correct but I'll say that it feels like you're assuming that familiarity with my play is scummy which I find odd.

It's not the familiarity per se, but rather the answering in someone's place. That denies me information, and implies a connection to me. Usually such a connection would point to scum or mason buddies, but I guess it can exist outside of the game proper too.

[Vi]

VP Baltar's daykill on VI is somewhat clever if you're aware of the players involved. If I've done this

right

wrong you'll see why in just a bit.

I guess it was only a matter of time before I had to

Daykill: Trollblag

The votes for

[Mariyta]

are fine at this point.

Is this as close as you get to actively pushing against someone, or is this a passive "eh let's go for it"?

---

I would contest that it does, at least in this case. I like to question when I see something worth questioning, to help me understand what's going on. That's very different from trying to make someone look suspicious, which is what you accused me of.

So do I! Good to see I wasn't far off after all.~

[inHimshallibe]

Nah, I'm just having fun. Yo. :othernon-gypsywords:

[Uite]

So do I! Good to see I wasn't far off after all.~

You're going to have to explain this one more, I'm not completely following.

Also, I'm curious, how do you know about my playstyle? Is it from this game alone, or have you seen some of my other games as well?

[Vi]

So do I! Good to see I wasn't far off after all.~

You're going to have to explain this one more, I'm not completely following.

Also, I'm curious, how do you know about my playstyle? Is it from this game alone, or have you seen some of my other games as well?

Actually, looking around the GTKAS forum. I thought I saw a resemblance.

[Exe]

@Utie: I wanted to know the answer to the question. It was relevant to my read on you.

@Zorb: I am not familiar with tanstalas play, unless I've forgotten a game with him.
In regards to Gandalf, he's being as useless as ever. Would like to see more content out of him, but I've yet to see a game where he didn't spend half the time goofing off, regardless of alignment.

[gandalf5166]

Eh, I'm done goofing off. The problem is that I'm not quite sure what to do now. I think I'll ISO Mariyta and see if the case against her is legit.

[Zorblag]

@Uite, I don't think that being my scum buddy or mason buddy would give Vi (or anyone else) any inherent ability to answer the sorts of questions for me that he has. What you're seeing thus far is simply knowledge of how I'm going to play. I suppose that if you think he's defending my play that's a slightly different issue but it makes much more sense as a laying out of expectations in my opinion.

@Vi, mostly the comment that the votes on Mariyta were my thinking that those voting for her were making moves that I was fine with (and believe I understand the reasons for.) Adding my vote to the wagon at the end of my post without saying anything else was my indication that Mariyta's the best spot I see for it just now. A push might come later after I've seen more but I'm not one to push cases most of the time. It's more valuable to see how other people will chose to vote on their own than to have them following my lead.

@Exe, do you think that Mariyta is likely to be misrepresenting tanstalas in any way with her defense of him?

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[gandalf5166]

Oh yeah, this wagon is good. She's literally made one post that wasn't about my daycop claim, and all that she did of substance there was say that Tans was town.

VOTE: Mariyta

I know I'm hardly one to talk, but could you try posting some content?

[Uite]

Actually, looking around the GTKAS forum. I thought I saw a resemblance.

That's interesting, because I don't think I've posted any game related stuff there. And I still don't quite get what you meant in post #103.

@Utie: I wanted to know the answer to the question. It was relevant to my read on you.

That much I'd already figured out. I guess what I really wanted to know was why you couldn't wait until I answered Vi's question, since it would tell you exactly the same.

@Uite, I don't think that being my scum buddy or mason buddy would give Vi (or anyone else) any inherent ability to answer the sorts of questions for me that he has. What you're seeing thus far is simply knowledge of how I'm going to play. I suppose that if you think he's defending my play that's a slightly different issue but it makes much more sense as a laying out of expectations in my opinion.

True, but it's not the ability but the willingness that's telling to me. I see the defending as a reinforcement of that connection.

[Zorblag]

@Uite, in the end that's going to be your call to make (I don't think that the motive you're attributing would actually be much of a factor at all personally) but I will say that I hope you'll not get too hung up on it. What do you think of Exe's vote for tanstalas? Well reasoned scum hunting or an opportunistic vote on a wagon on a weak player?

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Vi]

Actually, looking around the GTKAS forum. I thought I saw a resemblance.

That's interesting, because I don't think I've posted any game related stuff there. And I still don't quite get what you meant in post #103.

Personality.
Whenever you see a tilde you can ambiguously assume that I'm making light of the situation. In this particular case, this argument is becoming/has become stale and irrelevant (whether you see that or not) and I resorted to mildly trolling you.

[Uite]

I will say that I hope you'll not get too hung up on it.

I won't. I was basically telling you that in post #102.

What do you think of Exe's vote for tanstalas? Well reasoned scum hunting or an opportunistic vote on a wagon on a weak player?

I think tanstalas had a point concerning nocase, and Exe's accusation based on that is less than solid. Whether that's actually scummy I haven't decided yet. Why do you ask? You yourself had a vote on tanstalas at that point, as per your RVS method, but unvoted shortly after Exe's vote. Why did you go for Mariyta instead of Exe? Also, why only list those two options? It reeks of false dichotomy.

Personality.
Whenever you see a tilde you can ambiguously assume that I'm making light of the situation. In this particular case, this argument is becoming/has become stale and irrelevant (whether you see that or not) and I resorted to mildly trolling you.

Thanks for the clarification. I'm still not entirely sure if you can derive an in-game playstyle from someone's out-of-game personality like that though.

[Mariyta]

@Exe: I don't really have any opinion on anyone at this point. I'm having a hard time following this game and I can't get a read on anyone. I hate inHim's voting w/o a reason, but he does that all the time. Tans is being Tans, gandalf is being gandalf.

Maybe I'll feel more cooperative tomorrow if my unwanted houseguest gets the eff out. Doubtful, since she doesn't give a shit about what I want unless it fits into her little self-centered world.

[Ythill]

• Vote Count
  
  4 ~ Mariyta (Vi, inHimshallibe, Zorblag, gandalf5166)
  3 ~ tanstalas (nocase, VP Baltar, Exe)
  1 ~ Zorblag (tanstalas)
  1 ~ Vi (Uite)
  1 ~ VP Baltar (mothrax)
  
  Not voting: xvart, Mariyta

• Notes
  
  
• With twelve alive, it takes seven to lynch.
  
• Deadline is December 21st, 22:00 PST (GMT-8).

[xvart]

First, I've played several games with gandalf and I don't think he would have the cajones to fake daycop as scum. He wouldn't survive under the pressure.

Gut votes this early in the game might as well be random, especially when you had made one post at the time of the vote.

But the definition of gut is that there is something, possibly subtly indescribable that indicates alignment, which is not random. Even if gut reads on page two are open to tremendous changes, there is still something itching to make it more valid than RVS.

UNVOTE: gandalf

Tans is acting the same way he did the last game I was in with him. He was town then and made us waste a crucial lynch.

Fake DK was a pretty obvious joke, but unnecessary. Fake DKs are always in bad taste, IMO.

I think I was in this game and I can attest to basic agreement to this. I'll have to go back and look specifically at his play as we progress as I was one of the people lobbying for his lynch. I do remember him being defensive and erratic, but nothing else specific. Was he the D1 lynch that game or the D2 lynch?

Also,

Mariyta:

why did you unvote Gandalf? Do you believe nocase is telling you the truth or that he is hiding something or backpedaling? Personally, I have always had a problem with people who cast so called random votes that align with something that has occurred in game, and I don't really like the response that nocase is just wagoning like people wagon in the first few pages.

nocase

- from your posts I'm reading that you routinely just wagon for the sake of wagoning with your entry vote (or thereabouts) so if there had been another vote cast is a safe assumption that you would have wagoned one of them? Would gandalf's claim have any effect on picking which wagon to wagon?

I find the morthax/VP discussion about emulating RVS voting methodology entirely uninteresting.

Do you think that nocase switching his vote to me because I did not comment on the Mariyta thing is a justified vote?

Do you?

It would be extremely useful for you to tell us of actual reads on players.

I don't really have solid reads yet, though at the moment I'm suspicious of VP Baltar and Vi. Zorblag by association through Vi.

I really don't like this post as he casts suspicion on three of the heaviest hitters in this game for what I can only describe as being on the outside of an inside joke.

@xvart, welcome to the game. If you had to guess who do you think Mariyta was talking about? I claim that it should be particularly obvious and that your question feels manufactured.

My guess would be gandalf, but the structure of the he's fun to play with was weird because she was responding to without referencing any name, and I didn't recall you even speaking to her.

Eh, I'm done goofing off. The problem is that I'm not quite sure what to do now. I think I'll ISO Mariyta and see if the case against her is legit.

You obviously faked a day cop reveal for a reason. Were you able to garner anything from the reactions?

Oh yeah, this wagon is good. She's literally made one post that wasn't about my daycop claim, and all that she did of substance there was say that Tans was town.

Do you think tans is town?

Currently debating on voting Uite or nocase.

xvart.

[Mariyta]

Apologies for the previous outburst. I will do a re-read tomorrow.

@xvart: Can't remember if tans was D1 or D2. There was so much shoddy play in that game, it's all a blur. I unvoted gandalf because my intial vote (which came before his claim) was simply random (actually based off his play in LotR, so it's entertaining that he then went and did the same thing here). My unvote has nothing to do with nocase. I think nocase did vote based on gandalf's claim; whether he believed the claim or just wanted to wagon is another matter. And yes, I was talking about gandalf in that quote. In LotR, he threw the entire town in an uproar for several pages and eventually got himself vigged. It was fun to watch.

Ftr, I never said Tans was town. I just said he's acting the same way he did the last game we played in, in which he turned up town. I've yet to form an opinion on him in this game.

[tanstalas]

Thank you Zorblag and nocase for responding to me.

Unvote: Zorblag

I would make a bigger post now, however it is Thursday and that means Call of Duty night with the boys

Will do a re-read and make comments tomorrow.

[gandalf5166]

I didn't actually mean to garner any reactions from my daycop, I assumed everyone would assume it was an RVS joke >.> That said, I found one scum: Mariyta. Something also feels a little off about Zorblag's response, but I'm less confident in that.

[Uite]

It would be extremely useful for you to tell us of actual reads on players.

I don't really have solid reads yet, though at the moment I'm suspicious of VP Baltar and Vi. Zorblag by association through Vi.

I really don't like this post as he casts suspicion on three of the heaviest hitters in this game for what I can only describe as being on the outside of an inside joke.

There's a lot more to it than that though, as I've explained in subsequent posts. And what justification do you have at this point that I'm scummy for this?

[Vi]

ITT, xvart is also scum. xvart's new name is Flavio to go along with being scum with Mariyta.

[Mariyta]

ITT, xvart is also scum. xvart's new name is Flavio to go along with being scum with Mariyta.

Do your reads always suck this bad? Or is this just a special game?

[Vi]

ITT, xvart is also scum. xvart's new name is Flavio to go along with being scum with Mariyta.

Do your reads always suck this bad? Or is this just a special game?

But do go on. Tell me why xvart is Town.